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Why are Lofts getting JACKED


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3 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

And sometimes a shorter shaft IS a good thing. 😜

So many ways to go with that 🤣

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 10/21/2019 at 9:20 AM, fixyurdivot said:

 

Perhaps the next big breakthrough will be "transformer" clubs... a single club that can do it all. 

Steve Divnick has taken care of this for you...

https://www.divnickgolf.com/adjustable/

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What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
GW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :taylormade-small: TP5X Pix
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
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5 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

My thought on that. if you are struggling with swing speed.  Your best option on the top end of the bag is go with Hybrids vs stronger lofted irons.   

I know it's the case for me.  I stop at the 6 iron.  There would be no benefit to me to hit a 23 or even 22 degree 5 iron.  

I'm better off with a 24 degree hybrid in that spot.  

I've thought about getting the 5i in my set of Bridgestones.  However, I also stop at the 6i; it's 24º.  Even with my slow swing speed, I get it reasonably up in the air; the nice feature of SGI clubs.  My first hybrid is 4H at 22º... little higher ball flight than the 6i though, but it doesn't go much higher than my 17º 2H.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I did something of this sort for my capstone design project in my last year of mechanical engineering, though it was basically just using moveable weights to alter launch characteristics in an iron. Never got to manufacture it though.

Steve Divnick has taken care of this for you...
https://www.divnickgolf.com/adjustable/


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DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind),  TAYLORMADE HI-TOE (60°)

PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE

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  • 5 months later...

Last year I was playing with a couple of guys, one a good ball striker playing Titleist AP2's and another with a lower swing speed playing SGI irons with strong lofts.  On a par 3, they both hit 8 iron and the guy with the SGI irons made a big deal about hitting the same club as the guy playing the AP2's.  I said, "you know the loft on his 8 iron is nearly 2 clubs weaker than the loft on your 8 iron."  The shorter guy said "I don't care, we hit the same club."  LOL!  I do believe stronger lofts are mostly about marketing.  It used to be that the lowest lofted iron I could hit well was about 25 degrees.  Now it's about 27 degrees and I expect in the next couple of years that will become around 29 degrees.  It won't matter if the club is labeled as an 8 iron or a 5 iron, that's the limit of my old fart ability.  It really doesn't matter what's stamped on the bottom of the club as long as my gaps are good.

14 of the following:

Ping G425 Max

Callaway Epic Max 5 wood

Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees

Callaway Epic Max 11 wood

PXG 0311P Gen. 3  6-GW

PXG 0211 5-GW

PXG 0211 sand wedge bent to 53 degrees

Maltby M Series+ 54 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree

Ping Glide 3.0 60 degree

Evnroll ER2

Ping Sigma 2 Anser

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The dissenters will  say that with the stronger lofts you often end up with a 43* PW as a result and the next club up is likely a GW at 50 or 52.  So they say the 7 to 8 degree difference will leave them a distance gap between those two clubs instead of the 4 to 5 degrees that everyone seems  to think is gospel.
The problem with that thinking...IMO only, is we have established we are talking about the average weekend casual golfer who doesn't really get into fitting and all  the specs   That player will  not notice or care about a 2 degree gap difference between his older clubs and his newer ones.    It's all a bunch of commotion about something that will at most affect 1% to 2% of the players, and those players are already educated enough to know they can do things to offset that difference if it's noticeable to them. 


Hey Rob, you are talking about me....LOL

My new Wilson D7’s have a 43* PW and my Cobra King Wedges ares 50*/54*/58*. I have been able to adjust for the gap by lightening up on my PW swing or choking up 1/2 inch or so. My PW is now 105-110, GW is 85-95. If I am in between I usually go with the shorter iron and just have a longer putt. So far it’s been working out pretty good. I have considered ordering the D7 GW but it’s not urgent.


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Cobra King F8(10.5*) w/ Mitdubishi Tense ck Blue Regular; 3W & 5W Cobra King F8 w/ Mitsubishi Tense ck Blue Regular shafts; Tour Edge CBX119 22* Hybrid w/Project X Evenflo Regular shaft; Wilson Staff D-7 5-PW w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 Regular graphite shafts; Cobra King F8 Gw(50*)SW(54*)LW(58*)all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts.Putter: Tommy Armour Impact No. 3; Bag: Cobra Ultralight Cart bag, Peaccoat Blue.
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Driver: image.png.6ba1c8a254ad57aa05e527b74c2e04ba.png0211 w/Evenflo Riptide CB Regular shaft & 0811 XF w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft

Fairways:  image.png.80321f01fc46450b6f428c7daf7b3471.png0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB  regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft

Hybrid: None in bag at the moment

IronsTitleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour

Wedges: Titleist T300 48* GW w/Fubuki MV Senior shaft and Edison forged 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm).

Putter: 33”   Evnroll ER2 w/Evnroll Gravity Grip or Ping Ketsch

Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). 

Ball: Maxfli Tour CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel

Using Shot Scope V3 and MG4000 Rangefinder

 

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if they didnt make them stronger but did make the ball go higher we would all be losing a lot of distance- it makes sense based on the science. Just takes a bit of getting used to when you would normally play a 6 iron to your fav par 3 and now its a 7 or 8.

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Driver     Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs)  
4 Wood   Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+  :callaway-small: Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex

Hybrid     Titleist 910H 19*    :titelist-small:   Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S'

Irons         Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW   :mizuno-small:  N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S'

Wedges    Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54*  :callaway-small:   KBS Tour in 'R'

Putter        'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5"

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12 minutes ago, perseveringgolfer said:

if they didnt make them stronger but did make the ball go higher we would all be losing a lot of distance- it makes sense based on the science. Just takes a bit of getting used to when you would normally play a 6 iron to your fav par 3 and now its a 7 or 8.

Everyone ignores the size of the heads compared to decades ago and everything else in the design and are focused on some number in the bottom. Nobody is talking about club lengths being longer to go with the lofts, etc.

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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3 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

if they didnt make them stronger but did make the ball go higher we would all be losing a lot of distance- it makes sense based on the science. Just takes a bit of getting used to when you would normally play a 6 iron to your fav par 3 and now its a 7 or 8.

This simply  isn't true from my experience. There was never a more sole weighted club than the late seventies Spalding Executive.  It was extremely sole weighted to have synergy with the rock hard Top Flite which was a line drive missile with regular blades. 

The lofts were almost still 1950s lofts but just a little bit jacked:

20º 2-iron

23º 3-iron

26º 4-iron

30º 5-iron

34º 6-iron

38º 7-iron

42º 8-iron

46º 9-iron

50º pitching wedge

and a big gap to the 58º sand wedge.

They were as low CG as any club made today, and there was no loss of distance whatsoever. They were howitzers.

Players under social security age simply don't have the perspective to see what's happened with loft jacking because they began playing in the middle of it.

Its here. There's nothing we can do about it.

But don't believe the phony tech reasons, because it's all marketing, not tech.  The tech is there for sure, but the sole stampings are cosmetic and marketing inspired.  Clubs still play according to their lofts, not their sole numbers.

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On 11/4/2019 at 9:56 AM, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yes, a lot of that is true.  They also mentioned the increased speed from the newer faces and lower lofts are able to maintan the same launch windows as higher lofts.    So it's all basically a puzzle and balancing act that they--the engineers spend countless hours working on---It's not just crank this down 2 degrees and lets sell it ...(not saying you were sayng that, just an observation that there is a lot more to designing clubs than just lowering the loft for more distance. 

 

... Other than over 20 years ago when I went from one set of MB's to another set of MB's with the same specs, I have always had to adjust to new irons. Different spin, trajectory and distance. I will never understand the push back against technology improvements and that includes stronger lofts. It is what it is and you either adjust or just don't buy new clubs. 

... One small irony is I played "traditional" lofts for most of my early golf career. 48* pw, 44* 9i, 40* 8i, etc. I am about to start play some new Titleist T100-S (thanks o MGS 👍) and their lofts are exactly the same as my old traditional lofts, just one club difference on the sole. 48* w, 44* pw, 40* 9i, etc. And this will take an adjustment from what I am playing now, as do all new clubs. I am beginning to believe this topic is a classic example of a glass of water being half full or half empty and in the case of a few curmudgeons Who Took My Damn Water? 

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Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: RBZ Tour Hybrid 21.5* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R hy
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-9 MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 46*/50*/58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :bobby-grace-1: 6330 LTD Edition ...  33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '23

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2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 I will never understand the push back against technology improvements and that includes stronger lofts. 

There is no pushback against the technology.

None at all that I can see.

The pushback is against the  cosmetic stamping.

They could have today's high tech models exactly as they are, but with the numbers stamped correctly.

They choose not to, and you're right,

we either go along with it or we play obsolete gear or we don't play at all.

That doesn't mean we have to buy the phony explanations from the OEMs, though.

I know from personal experience, not mere opinion, that it's all BS.

If you took up the game right in the middle of all this jacking, you probably have no reason to care--I understand that.

The actual fact remains, however, that it's vanity lofts, pure and simple, not science.

The science is there for sure, but independent of it.

 

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6 minutes ago, RetiredBoomer said:

There is no pushback against the technology.

None at all that I can see.

The pushback is against the cosmetic stamping.

They could have today's high tech models exactly as they are, but with the numbers stamped correctly.

 

 

... Clearly someone took your water. Your argument, if I can even call it that, is you are fine with the clubs technology and how they perform but you won't buy or play new clubs because of the number or letter stamped on the sole? I am sure you don't see just how silly that is, but others here certainly do. 

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Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: RBZ Tour Hybrid 21.5* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R hy
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-9 MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 46*/50*/58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :bobby-grace-1: 6330 LTD Edition ...  33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '23

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6 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Clearly someone took your water. Your argument, if I can even call it that, is you are fine with the clubs technology and how they perform but you won't buy or play new clubs because of the number or letter stamped on the sole? I am sure you don't see just how silly that is, but others here certainly do. 

Chi, I do buy the clubs.

I have new clubs that haven't seen green grass yet because of the pandemic.

The totally incorrect numbers are stamped on the soles, and I know and understand that I have to live it.

It didn't stop me from buying the clubs,

and there wasn't a single word in my post that would suggest that it would. Maybe you could read it again.

What I did say was that the OEM excuses for it are totally BS, and I only said it because I know for a fact that it's true.

 

You're an actor, Chi.   That's great, and art is important.

My job required understanding what specific language meant,  recognizing BS when I saw it, and I was really, really good at it.

 

 

 

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... LOL there are no incorrect numbers, there are just numbers. Yes, acting is my main profession but I was also a PGA member, taught for 5 years and written reviews of golf clubs as well as going to the PGA Show every year injury did not prevent me from doing so. I have interviewed CEO's, Marketing and Engineering VPs and I understand it is a combination of distance sells as well as technology has a cause and effect. But in the end it is really very simple, either accept where the equipment game is and enjoy your half filled glass off water and complain on a golf forum about how OEM's took half your glass and now call it a decanter. Potato, Pahtato. Clearly we see this completely differently so I will leave you to enjoy your new incorrectly numbered irons when Covid finally lets us play again. Hit em well! 

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Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: RBZ Tour Hybrid 21.5* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R hy
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-9 MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 46*/50*/58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :bobby-grace-1: 6330 LTD Edition ...  33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '23

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3 minutes ago, chisag said:

... LOL there are no incorrect numbers, there are just numbers. Yes, acting is my main profession but I was also a PGA member, taught for 5 years and written reviews of golf clubs as well as going to the PGA Show every year injury did not prevent me from doing so. I have interviewed CEO's, Marketing and Engineering VPs and I understand it is a combination of distance sells as well as technology has a cause and effect. But in the end it is really very simple, either accept where the equipment game is and enjoy your half filled glass off water or whine and complain on a golf forum about how OEM's took half your glass and now call it a decanter. Potato, Pahtato.

pozzit created a post about "jacked lofts," and I offered my opinions on the subject that "pozzit" introduced.

You disagree with my opinions and I disagree with yours.

I made my observations with no mention of you, however.

You wanted to make a personal thing out of it, and you also attribute whining to me where no whining took place.

Perhaps you might subject yourself to more specificity in your remarks rather than saying Potato, Pahtato after insulting me without cause.

 

 

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... Point taken, I did not mean it personally, just addressing the issue. I apologize and removed a few words. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: RBZ Tour Hybrid 21.5* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R hy
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-9 MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 46*/50*/58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :bobby-grace-1: 6330 LTD Edition ...  33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '23

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5 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Other than over 20 years ago when I went from one set of MB's to another set of MB's with the same specs, I have always had to adjust to new irons. Different spin, trajectory and distance. I will never understand the push back against technology improvements and that includes stronger lofts. It is what it is and you either adjust or just don't buy new clubs. 

... One small irony is I played "traditional" lofts for most of my early golf career. 48* pw, 44* 9i, 40* 8i, etc. I am about to start play some new Titleist T100-S (thanks o MGS 👍) and their lofts are exactly the same as my old traditional lofts, just one club difference on the sole. 48* w, 44* pw, 40* 9i, etc. And this will take an adjustment from what I am playing now, as do all new clubs. I am beginning to believe this topic is a classic example of a glass of water being half full or half empty and in the case of a few curmudgeons Who Took My Damn Water? 

Very well said!

Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred
3 Wood: :taylormade-small: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff
Irons: :titelist-small:  7 - PW T100S, 4 -6 T200 all with Nippon NS Pro 880 AMC Chrome Stiff 

Irons: :cobra-small: 4 - PW King Forged Tec with Aerotech Steelfiber I95 Stiff

Wedges:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 56*, 60*  Standard Wedge Shafts   

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Phantom X 5.5           
Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Studio Select Newport 1.5
Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1 or Maxfli Tour

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/17/2019 at 5:49 PM, cnosil said:

Why is there no length standards, flex standards, headweight standards, shoe size standard, etc.  You can say they lofts are jacked and no one can really provide a good reason why.  Like you said, clubs launch higher and travel farther.  Marketing is all about distance;  most players won't buy clubs that go 10 yards less than their current clubs.    Ultimately the number on the bottom of the club is and has always been meaningless;  find the clubs that allow you to hit the ball a specific distance.  If that is labelled 7, 33*, A, 150 yrd, or something else,  does it really matter?

 

 

Actually the number always meant somethiing eg. my set from 1985 that I still play each club is exactly 10 yards more always was always will be. Now they make these crazy 7 irons that go like a driver almost.

I understand by moving weight back and bottom you get more height so they cut back loft to compensate for that, but there has to be a end someting?

Real issue is the gapping between clubs seems to be inconsistent and too large eg 15+ years an often 20-30 yards for same type of clubs eg. irons.

Jazz woods (Driver & Hybrids), TNT Silver Eagle Irons, PW & SW, Slotline Inertia putter. TopFlite Gammer.

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On 4/13/2020 at 11:18 AM, RetiredBoomer said:

This simply  isn't true from my experience. There was never a more sole weighted club than the late seventies Spalding Executive.  It was extremely sole weighted to have synergy with the rock hard Top Flite which was a line drive missile with regular blades. 

The lofts were almost still 1950s lofts but just a little bit jacked:

20º 2-iron

23º 3-iron

26º 4-iron

30º 5-iron

34º 6-iron

38º 7-iron

42º 8-iron

46º 9-iron

50º pitching wedge

and a big gap to the 58º sand wedge.

They were as low CG as any club made today, and there was no loss of distance whatsoever. They were howitzers.

Players under social security age simply don't have the perspective to see what's happened with loft jacking because they began playing in the middle of it.

Its here. There's nothing we can do about it.

But don't believe the phony tech reasons, because it's all marketing, not tech.  The tech is there for sure, but the sole stampings are cosmetic and marketing inspired.  Clubs still play according to their lofts, not their sole numbers.

The Spaulding Executive and TopFlite balls were are legendary. Good point.

Jazz woods (Driver & Hybrids), TNT Silver Eagle Irons, PW & SW, Slotline Inertia putter. TopFlite Gammer.

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On 10/19/2019 at 6:47 PM, BaldnBroke said:

We have all watched this happen... I have a set from the 1960s with the loft stamped on each club, the highest numbered iron is an 8-iron and it's 50 degrees and 34" long!!

I think it makes more sense for your Pitching Wedge to be used for pitching.

I like names of clubs rather than numbers, like niblick and mashie.

Always thought that a modern set could be named better... For example, with lofts in brackets:

Driver (9)
Fairway (15)
Hybrid (20)
Long iron (24)... Meets the 38/24 rule
Strong iron (28)
Mid iron (32)
Approach iron (36)
Short iron (40)
Strong Wedge (44)
Pitching Wedge (48)
Gap Wedge (52)
Sand Wedge (56)
Lob Wedge (60)

Still has 5 wedges... But giving the other clubs names seems to soften it somehow to me?



Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
 

Smart idea Bald.

Jazz woods (Driver & Hybrids), TNT Silver Eagle Irons, PW & SW, Slotline Inertia putter. TopFlite Gammer.

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