Jump to content
TESTERS WANTED! ×

New Golf Handicap system


tony@CIC

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, yungkory said:

Thanks for posting that info for us!

I doubt the PCC will ever come into effect for me, I honestly don't know if people post scores when they play -- most are casual and don't really care, especially at the munis.

We'll see, I sat at a table today next to a pro from a local muni.  When they have men's league days, those scores will be posted, and the PCC could come into effect.  I don't know how many scores get posted from casual play, but it wouldn't surprise me to find a lot more than 8 posted for many days of the year.  One thing not mentioned, this evaluates ALL scores posted for that course, including by non-members.  Many public-course players will have a home course, but play a big variety of nearby tracks.  If I go to California and play a public course there, my score will be included in the PCC evaluation at that course, and my score will be revised based on the PCC.  Same if I go to Scotland, those scores will be included in the PCC evaluation as long as I enter them within the right time frame.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We'll see, I sat at a table today next to a pro from a local muni.  When they have men's league days, those scores will be posted, and the PCC could come into effect.  I don't know how many scores get posted from casual play, but it wouldn't surprise me to find a lot more than 8 posted for many days of the year.  One thing not mentioned, this evaluates ALL scores posted for that course, including by non-members.  Many public-course players will have a home course, but play a big variety of nearby tracks.  If I go to California and play a public course there, my score will be included in the PCC evaluation at that course, and my score will be revised based on the PCC.  Same if I go to Scotland, those scores will be included in the PCC evaluation as long as I enter them within the right time frame.

Thanks for updating us. While I thought there could be an adjustment for those tough weather days I never thought that there might be an adjustment for 'easy days'. With PCC they've just added a high level of complexity especially for those of us that play in leagues (stroke play). It'll be interesting to see if the PCC portion of the new handicap lasts.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Thanks for updating us. While I thought there could be an adjustment for those tough weather days I never thought that there might be an adjustment for 'easy days'. With PCC they've just added a high level of complexity especially for those of us that play in leagues (stroke play). It'll be interesting to see if the PCC portion of the new handicap lasts.

The idea of PCC has lasted for decades in many parts of the world, I see no reason it won't last in the worldwide system.  Its called "Competition Scratch Score in the CONGU system used in the UK.  And remember, this isn't something that's complex for any of us golfers, this will happen automatically at midnight each night, its built into the computer calculations, just like the overnight re-calculation of your index.  All you have to do is enter your scores in the normal manner.

The one big change for USGA people will be the adoption of Net Double Bogey as your maximum hole score.  But the new GHIN will enable hole-by-hole posting, and any adjustments to hole scores will be made automatically.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

.  But the new GHIN will enable hole-by-hole posting, and any adjustments to hole scores will be made automatically.

@DaveP043 Thx again for the update. It'll certainly be interesting to see how all of this rolls out. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

@DaveP043 Thx again for the update. It'll certainly be interesting to see how all of this rolls out. 

It won't be long before some of the actual experiences start getting posted.  GHIN users will be able (actually required) to download the new app after Jan 6.  Even though we have year-round posting in Virginia, I normally don't play a lot during winter months, but I'll be in Palm Springs on Jan 11 for a week, so I'll get some pretty early experiences posting scores and seeing the reports available in the new app.  

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

So I get an email today from the FSGA regarding the WHS and just updates on what they are doing.  Here are several things that stood out to me that I hadn't previously thought too much of.

  • ESC.  Previous GHIN system, as a single digit capper I simply picked up after double bogey, because with ESC that was the highest score I could post.  With the WHS I need to know my course handicap, and also look at the scorecard and determine which holes I receive handicapped strokes on.  Using my own handicap as an example, I would receive 8 handicapped strokes on my home course, which is where I need to look at the scorecard and take the 1-8 handicapped holes and factor this into the new system for max score.  In other words, if I have a horrible hole on the 3 handicap hole, I don't pick up after double bogey, but need to record a triple bogey, because the system factors in "NET DOUBLE BOGEY."  Are you confused yet, because I can already envision the chaos that will ensue with this madness.  Guys at my club aren't gonna become math majors with all of this and will just want to play golf.  let the insanity commence.
  • Course handicap determination.  So apparently in the past I could take my GHIN index and punch it in the system to determine course handicap based on slope.  Now it's based on course rating, and the lower the rating, the lower your course handicap will be.  The higher the rating, the higher your course handicap will be.  My home course is a 71.2 rating from the member tees, so I honestly don't even know what my course handicap will be there until this new system is put into place.  Perhaps it is now a 7 course handicap (par is 72), but who knows.

Again, these are two of the most confusing things to me.  And yeah, I'll do the math and figure all of this out initially and be done with it, but for the guy who plays a different course every time, good luck.  You'll need a PhD in golf handicap to figure all of this out every time you tee it up, if you even care.  I can honestly say that most guys are not gonna be bothered with any of this.  I'm anal enough to care, so I'll go through the motions to figure everything out.  But I am guessing that 95% of guys are gonna give this new system the middle finger with all of this convoluted calculations.

Side note, the FSGA also mentioned that they are entering course handicap information for all Florida courses into the system so that players will actually be able to post scores hole by hole, versus entering just the total score.  They said it probably wouldn't be ready until 2/1/20, as they have to enter all courses manually, mostly for the reasons I discussed above, where the max score per hole handicap calculation comes into play.

All in all, what a mess this will be initially.  In 6 months we'll be used to it and all of the hub bub will go away.  But for now, brace yourself for chaos.

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@GSwag, this information has been available for quite some time, but I'm glad that state associations are putting out more notices as the day draws close.  I have just a couple of explanations that might help you understand the reasoning behind some of these changes.

In much of the world, net Stableford scoring is really commonplace.  I'm not sure, but the USGA may have been the only country using ESC in the way we do.  Consequently, it made sense for the USGA folks to move towards the rest of the world.  In net Stableford scoring, a net double is zero points, bogey is 1, par is 2, etc, so utilizing net double as maximum hole score makes a great deal of sense.  As I said, this has been commonplace throughout the world for a long time.  US golfers aren't necessarily less intelligent than our friends internationally, so i know we CAN learn this, but there will definitely be an adjustment period.

The change to your Course Handicap calculation is really in line with the current method (is it the old method yet?) of allocating strokes when players compete against each other from different tees.  But now, instead of this adjustment only happening on tournament days, it will be in place year round.  You'll still be able to "punch your HI into the system" and get your Course Handicap, you'll just need to know a couple more numbers.  Or you'll need to provide the golf course and tee, and the system will supply the right CR, par, and Slope before it spits out your Course Handicap.  There should also be tables of course handicap v. HI for each tee, just as there have been for years.

I know that GHIN will have hole-by-hole entry available on all of its platforms.  I was told that Virginia has been actively updating course information so that HbH will be fairly easy as quickly as possible, but they depend on individual courses to get their information to the state Association.  I anticipate a bit of a shake-down period, whether due to club-related delays, or data entry mistakes, but I believe that will get sorted out pretty quickly.  Once it is, you won't need to know your Course Handicap, you won't need to dot your card and apply net double, you'll just enter your raw hole scores and the system will do the rest.

I guess I have a little more faith in golfers than you do.  I believe that golfers who care about doing things right will figure it out pretty quickly.  The ones who don't care are probably doing things wrong now, and will continue to do things wrong in the future.  

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm here's an interesting piece of info that I wasn't aware of. According to the USGA "the system will account for abnormal playing conditions, limit extreme movement of a Handicap Index and reduce a Handicap Index when an exceptional score is posted" .  I take that to read when you have a blowout round either high or low it won't affect the index. Wonder what the parameters of that are. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, tony@CIC said:

Hmm here's an interesting piece of info that I wasn't aware of. According to the USGA "the system will account for abnormal playing conditions, limit extreme movement of a Handicap Index and reduce a Handicap Index when an exceptional score is posted" .  I take that to read when you have a blowout round either high or low it won't affect the index. Wonder what the parameters of that are. 

First, abnormal playing conditions, called the Playing Condition Calculation (PCC).  The system will look at scores posted that day, for play that day.  If at least 8 scores are posted, and they are outside of the expected range, the differentials that day may be increased or decreased.  This will based entirely on scores posted, there are no other subjective evaluations required.  The calculation of the PCC is only based on scores posted on the day of play, but the PCC will apply to all scores posted for that day of play, so be sure to post promptly.  If you play today but post tomorrow, your score will not be included in the evaluation, but will be adjusted if a PCC is appropriate.  We were told at the seminar that the PCC is expected to be used in 10% to 15% of the time.

Second, limits on extreme movement.  The system will look back 12 months, and see your lowest index in that period.  If your handicap rises more than 3 strokes above that low index, further upward movement will be slowed.  Your handicap will not be allowed to increase by more than 5 strokes over 12-month low.

The last bit, if you shoot a score where the differential is 7 strokes below your current Handicap Index, your Index will automatically be reduced by 1 stroke.  If you shoot one that results in a differential 10 strokes below your index, your index will be reduced by 2 strokes.  If you go out next week and shoot another one 7 below your (updated) current index, your index will be reduced by another stroke.

You can read all of this stuff, for us USGA people at least, at:

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.html

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

First, abnormal playing conditions, called the Playing Condition Calculation (PCC).  The system will look at scores posted that day, for play that day.  If at least 8 scores are posted, and they are outside of the expected range, the differentials that day may be increased or decreased.  This will based entirely on scores posted, there are no other subjective evaluations required.  The calculation of the PCC is only based on scores posted on the day of play, but the PCC will apply to all scores posted for that day of play, so be sure to post promptly.  If you play today but post tomorrow, your score will not be included in the evaluation, but will be adjusted if a PCC is appropriate.  We were told at the seminar that the PCC is expected to be used in 10% to 15% of the time.

Second, limits on extreme movement.  The system will look back 12 months, and see your lowest index in that period.  If your handicap rises more than 3 strokes above that low index, further upward movement will be slowed.  Your handicap will not be allowed to increase by more than 5 strokes over 12-month low.

The last bit, if you shoot a score where the differential is 7 strokes below your current Handicap Index, your Index will automatically be reduced by 1 stroke.  If you shoot one that results in a differential 10 strokes below your index, your index will be reduced by 2 strokes.  If you go out next week and shoot another one 7 below your (updated) current index, your index will be reduced by another stroke.

You can read all of this stuff, for us USGA people at least, at:

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.html

As usual thx for the additional details Dave. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

As usual thx for the additional details Dave. 

No problem.  To me, the primary change for most of us will be changes to the maximum hole score.  To do it manually, you'll need to know your Course Handicap, and need to understand where strokes fall on the card.  On the other hand, when GHIN resumes on Monday, you'll be able to enter scores hole by hole, and let the computer correct for the maximum hole score.  All of the rest of this, the changes in the calculation method, the PCC, the hard and soft caps on upward movement of handicaps, the exceptional score adjustments, that will all happen in the background.  The other important thing is that everyone should do their best to post scores on the same day that they play, so the PCC will evaluate as many scores as possible.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/1/2020 at 9:50 AM, DaveP043 said:

No problem.  To me, the primary change for most of us will be changes to the maximum hole score.  To do it manually, you'll need to know your Course Handicap, and need to understand where strokes fall on the card.  On the other hand, when GHIN resumes on Monday, you'll be able to enter scores hole by hole, and let the computer correct for the maximum hole score.  All of the rest of this, the changes in the calculation method, the PCC, the hard and soft caps on upward movement of handicaps, the exceptional score adjustments, that will all happen in the background.  The other important thing is that everyone should do their best to post scores on the same day that they play, so the PCC will evaluate as many scores as possible.

Has anyone been able to get into GHIN today yet?  I am able to log in to GHIN and see my profile page, but when I try and enter a score either total score, or hole by hole I don't get very far.

 

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, GSwag said:

Has anyone been able to get into GHIN today yet?  I am able to log in to GHIN and see my profile page, but when I try and enter a score either total score, or hole by hole I don't get very far.

 

I wasn't able to get in using the current app. I downloaded the new app - BUT it didn't transfer my account info so now I have to wait until the our golf staff gets in to retrieve my account information. Frustrating. 

@GSwag download the new app and put in you name and number.  Please report back the difference between old and new indexes. Thx. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't able to get in using the current app. I downloaded the new app - BUT it didn't transfer my account info so now I have to wait until the our golf staff gets in to retrieve my account information. Frustrating. 
[mention=71158]GSwag[/mention] download the new app and put in you name and number.  Please report back the difference between old and new indexes. Thx. 

You have to delete the old app from your phone and download the new one as there is no app update for this one.

Both the new app and the desktop site at ghin.com are sorta worthless right now as their database and search features don’t work. My guess is that the system is getting overwhelmed by golfers trying to access it.

I was actually able to post a new score by manually entering the course name, slope and rating, but that’s been it so far. And I did that from the desktop site. I would advise patience with this thing as it’ll probably be February before they work out the bugs in the system.

Here are a few screen shots from the mobile app.
IMG_0049.png


IMG_0050.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, GSwag said:

Has anyone been able to get into GHIN today yet?  I am able to log in to GHIN and see my profile page, but when I try and enter a score either total score, or hole by hole I don't get very far.

I'm seeing the same thing you report.  I can sign in, with both the website and the phone app, I can see my scoring history and profile.  The stats page indicates that we'll be able to keep a reasonable amount of statistical data, recorded along with hole-by-hole posting.  But anything that requires information about individual golf courses, the Course Handicap Calculator and Score Entry, hangs up for me on both platforms.  It will be interesting to see how quickly they can get full functionality.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I went ahead and through the desktop website, manually entered all of my scores from January 1st until Saturday.  The system allows that, as I know the course slope and rating for my home course.  But beyond manually posting scores, it's not working.  I imagine it'll be awhile before we get the database fully functional, and to the point where you can post hole by hole results with stats.  It's probably only me, but I live for all of these stats and numbers, and I'll be really interested to see my stats tracked in the GHIN system after 10 or 20 rounds.

Honestly, what I am seeing so far, if you take away the initial glitches, looks very positive.  Frankly for me, this will be a lot of fun.

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely not a smooth rollout. It took a couple of tries signing in. Then it finally came up. FYI my index increased by .5. Not sure why they couldn't write a script that kept your old information such as partners. I probably had 25 fellow golfers in there which is gone. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The new app is much better, and I like the more detailed stat tracking. I'm about to enter a couple scores, but so far I like what I'm seeing!

:cobra-small: LTDx Black 10.5º | UST LIN-Q M40X TSPX Blue 6F4
:cobra-small: LTDx 3W 15º | UST LIN-Q M40X TSPX Blue 7F4
:ping-small: G425 3H 19º | UST Recoil Proto Hybrid 85F4
:srixon-small: Z785 4-PW | UST Recoil 125 Proto F4
:cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Tour Rack 50
º Mid, 54º Mid, 60º Mid | UST Recoil Wedge Proto F4
:EVNROLL: ER5BV | BGT Stability Tour

:bridgestone-small: Tour B X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those signing in with the new app - it's definitely slow so be patient! I'm sure the golfers are breaking the internet trying to download and figure out their new index. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bugs are still being worked out for sure. I'm unable to look up courses, and when I select a course from previously played courses, I can't select the tees. I'll give it a try again once the rush has died down. 

:cobra-small: LTDx Black 10.5º | UST LIN-Q M40X TSPX Blue 6F4
:cobra-small: LTDx 3W 15º | UST LIN-Q M40X TSPX Blue 7F4
:ping-small: G425 3H 19º | UST Recoil Proto Hybrid 85F4
:srixon-small: Z785 4-PW | UST Recoil 125 Proto F4
:cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Tour Rack 50
º Mid, 54º Mid, 60º Mid | UST Recoil Wedge Proto F4
:EVNROLL: ER5BV | BGT Stability Tour

:bridgestone-small: Tour B X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TR1PTIK said:

So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

I can tell you how it will affect me. Old system I was a 1.1 index CH of 1. New system I am a 0.6 index CH +1

The CH calculations to me are going to be the biggest difference. 

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:srixon-small:            ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S)

:titleist-small:            Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

 :titleist-small:           ProV1 #23

Twitter             @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I can tell you how it will affect me. Old system I was a 1.1 index CH of 1. New system I am a 0.6 index CH +1

The CH calculations to me are going to be the biggest difference. 

That’s the biggest difference I saw based on the article. The range of course handicaps he came up with for different scenarios seemed pretty wild to me. 
 

I’ve never really needed an official handicap for anything other than tracking progress of my game. I’m not sure if that will continue to be the case with events here in Texas and it seems like I will have to learn quite a bit about the new system if it’s required to play the events I want to play.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

I totally agree with his assessment of several things.

First, his point about adjusting course handicap based on course rating and par is very subjective, and will cause mass confusion.  Using my own home course, where the rating is 71.2 from the member tees, under the old system I was an 8 course handicap with a 6.9 index.  Now, even with my index up to 7.3, doing the math, my course handicap will now be a 7, because I have to subtract the 0.8 from the calculation because the rating is below par.  This will also be a confusing mess when you factor in senior tees and all of that.  The old guys are gonna be pissed to say the least because they'll be getting 3 fewer strokes (68.9 rating) then they were before.

Secondly, what he mentions about net double bogey is one of my biggest concerns with this new system.  I literally went through my home course to look at hole handicaps to make sure I know where I need to count up to triple bogey, versus just picking up after double bogey.  And because this is all so new, I played out a hole on Friday where I carded a 10, because I wasn't sure whether I need to post a 7 or an 8 for that hole.  This system will slow play down, because I am just guessing that most golfers, even avid ones, won't spend the time or effort to try and figure out whether they should be posting max double bogey or triple bogey, based on course handicap or other factors they really don't want to spend the time researching.

In short, this whole thing is a numbers mess that 99% of golfers won't bother with, effectively making a lot of handicaps invalid and meaningless for competition purposes.

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The GHIN.com desktop website is now working for posting scores from the course database.  I searched on a couple of courses in my area and they came up.  The hole-by-hole posting option is still not available that way, but at least you can search on a course and post by course for total score.

I checked the mobile app, and still not able to post anything, so that might be delayed a bit longer, as I am betting they are working through the desktop website first, and then they'll get the mobile app working.

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, GSwag said:

In short, this whole thing is a numbers mess that 99% of golfers won't bother with, effectively making a lot of handicaps invalid and meaningless for competition purposes.

That’s how I feel, especially in regard to what you said about net double bogey and the replacement of ESC which was dead simple.

The spreadsheet I built for my unofficial handicap is about to get a lot more complex if I want to see how I look under the new system...

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, GSwag said:

The GHIN.com desktop website is now working for posting scores from the course database.  I searched on a couple of courses in my area and they came up.  The hole-by-hole posting option is still not available that way, but at least you can search on a course and post by course for total score.

I checked the mobile app, and still not able to post anything, so that might be delayed a bit longer, as I am betting they are working through the desktop website first, and then they'll get the mobile app working.

That’s very likely considering a large number of clubs still have a dedicated computer for members to input scores on the website.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

I read that.  It seems his biggest concern is around the addition of the (CR-Par) term in calculating a Course Handicap.  I just don't agree.  First, it takes the adjustment that has always been made for play from different tees, and makes it into a every-day adjustment.  People used to be mad and/or confused at every tournament where this adjustment was applied, now they'll just be mad/confused once, early this season.  Second, it everyone will not have a Course Handicap that, when they play pretty well, puts their net score right around par.  Third, it makes application of Net Double Bogey maximum equitable across all tees.

I agree that the Net Double is on one hand a better system, but on the other hand a little more confusing.  But people all over the world have been successfully using Stableford scoring for decades, Net Double is simply Stableford scoring phrased differently.  Those folks are not intrinsically smarter than Americans, but they do have more experience.  When we get more experience, we'll be fine.  And the newly enabled hole-by-hole scoring will allow us to let the computers figure it out for us.

9 minutes ago, GSwag said:

And because this is all so new, I played out a hole on Friday where I carded a 10, because I wasn't sure whether I need to post a 7 or an 8 for that hole.  

In short, this whole thing is a numbers mess that 99% of golfers won't bother with, effectively making a lot of handicaps invalid and meaningless for competition purposes.

You knew you should stop at either a 7 or an 8, and you putted out for a 10?  And the Handicap system is somehow responsible???  Sometimes we need a mirror.

I think its an extreme exaggeration to say that "99% of golfers wont bother".  Those who care about doing things right will figure it out.  Its not that complicated, its just a change.  And those who are looking for an excuse not to post scores, they'll have their excuse.

 

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I read that.  It seems his biggest concern is around the addition of the (CR-Par) term in calculating a Course Handicap.  I just don't agree.  First, it takes the adjustment that has always been made for play from different tees, and makes it into a every-day adjustment.  People used to be mad and/or confused at every tournament where this adjustment was applied, now they'll just be mad/confused once, early this season.  Second, it everyone will not have a Course Handicap that, when they play pretty well, puts their net score right around par.  Third, it makes application of Net Double Bogey maximum equitable across all tees.

I agree that the Net Double is on one hand a better system, but on the other hand a little more confusing.  But people all over the world have been successfully using Stableford scoring for decades, Net Double is simply Stableford scoring phrased differently.  Those folks are not intrinsically smarter than Americans, but they do have more experience.  When we get more experience, we'll be fine.  And the newly enabled hole-by-hole scoring will allow us to let the computers figure it out for us.

You knew you should stop at either a 7 or an 8, and you putted out for a 10?  And the Handicap system is somehow responsible???  Sometimes we need a mirror.

I think its an extreme exaggeration to say that "99% of golfers wont bother".  Those who care about doing things right will figure it out.  Its not that complicated, its just a change.  And those who are looking for an excuse not to post scores, they'll have their excuse.

 

I'm using my 10 as an example.  Lighten up a bit and stop flaming just because you and I happen to have a different perspective on how (we think) this whole thing is going to shake out.

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, GSwag said:

I'm using my 10 as an example.  Lighten up a bit and stop flaming just because you and I happen to have a different perspective on how (we think) this whole thing is going to shake out.

I apologize if that seemed like flaming, but I'd rather talk about real stuff.  To suggest that lots of players will take lots longer because they won't know when to stop strikes me as excessively alarmist  I have no doubt that some, maybe many, players will be a little confused at first.  For those, I'd suggest that they take one more stroke than they used to on par-5 holes, and one fewer on par-3 holes, and they'll be close.  But as I said, people have been doing this all over the world for a long long time, and don't have a problem understanding when to pick up.  We'll figure it out.  How long that will take, I can't be sure.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...