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tony@CIC

New Golf Handicap system

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55 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

As usual thx for the additional details Dave. 

No problem.  To me, the primary change for most of us will be changes to the maximum hole score.  To do it manually, you'll need to know your Course Handicap, and need to understand where strokes fall on the card.  On the other hand, when GHIN resumes on Monday, you'll be able to enter scores hole by hole, and let the computer correct for the maximum hole score.  All of the rest of this, the changes in the calculation method, the PCC, the hard and soft caps on upward movement of handicaps, the exceptional score adjustments, that will all happen in the background.  The other important thing is that everyone should do their best to post scores on the same day that they play, so the PCC will evaluate as many scores as possible.

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On 1/1/2020 at 9:50 AM, DaveP043 said:

No problem.  To me, the primary change for most of us will be changes to the maximum hole score.  To do it manually, you'll need to know your Course Handicap, and need to understand where strokes fall on the card.  On the other hand, when GHIN resumes on Monday, you'll be able to enter scores hole by hole, and let the computer correct for the maximum hole score.  All of the rest of this, the changes in the calculation method, the PCC, the hard and soft caps on upward movement of handicaps, the exceptional score adjustments, that will all happen in the background.  The other important thing is that everyone should do their best to post scores on the same day that they play, so the PCC will evaluate as many scores as possible.

Has anyone been able to get into GHIN today yet?  I am able to log in to GHIN and see my profile page, but when I try and enter a score either total score, or hole by hole I don't get very far.

 

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20 minutes ago, GSwag said:

Has anyone been able to get into GHIN today yet?  I am able to log in to GHIN and see my profile page, but when I try and enter a score either total score, or hole by hole I don't get very far.

 

I wasn't able to get in using the current app. I downloaded the new app - BUT it didn't transfer my account info so now I have to wait until the our golf staff gets in to retrieve my account information. Frustrating. 

@GSwag download the new app and put in you name and number.  Please report back the difference between old and new indexes. Thx. 

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I wasn't able to get in using the current app. I downloaded the new app - BUT it didn't transfer my account info so now I have to wait until the our golf staff gets in to retrieve my account information. Frustrating. 
[mention=71158]GSwag[/mention] download the new app and put in you name and number.  Please report back the difference between old and new indexes. Thx. 

You have to delete the old app from your phone and download the new one as there is no app update for this one.

Both the new app and the desktop site at ghin.com are sorta worthless right now as their database and search features don’t work. My guess is that the system is getting overwhelmed by golfers trying to access it.

I was actually able to post a new score by manually entering the course name, slope and rating, but that’s been it so far. And I did that from the desktop site. I would advise patience with this thing as it’ll probably be February before they work out the bugs in the system.

Here are a few screen shots from the mobile app.
IMG_0049.png


IMG_0050.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, GSwag said:

Has anyone been able to get into GHIN today yet?  I am able to log in to GHIN and see my profile page, but when I try and enter a score either total score, or hole by hole I don't get very far.

I'm seeing the same thing you report.  I can sign in, with both the website and the phone app, I can see my scoring history and profile.  The stats page indicates that we'll be able to keep a reasonable amount of statistical data, recorded along with hole-by-hole posting.  But anything that requires information about individual golf courses, the Course Handicap Calculator and Score Entry, hangs up for me on both platforms.  It will be interesting to see how quickly they can get full functionality.

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I went ahead and through the desktop website, manually entered all of my scores from January 1st until Saturday.  The system allows that, as I know the course slope and rating for my home course.  But beyond manually posting scores, it's not working.  I imagine it'll be awhile before we get the database fully functional, and to the point where you can post hole by hole results with stats.  It's probably only me, but I live for all of these stats and numbers, and I'll be really interested to see my stats tracked in the GHIN system after 10 or 20 rounds.

Honestly, what I am seeing so far, if you take away the initial glitches, looks very positive.  Frankly for me, this will be a lot of fun.

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Definitely not a smooth rollout. It took a couple of tries signing in. Then it finally came up. FYI my index increased by .5. Not sure why they couldn't write a script that kept your old information such as partners. I probably had 25 fellow golfers in there which is gone. 

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The new app is much better, and I like the more detailed stat tracking. I'm about to enter a couple scores, but so far I like what I'm seeing!

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For those signing in with the new app - it's definitely slow so be patient! I'm sure the golfers are breaking the internet trying to download and figure out their new index. 

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The bugs are still being worked out for sure. I'm unable to look up courses, and when I select a course from previously played courses, I can't select the tees. I'll give it a try again once the rush has died down. 

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So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

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1 minute ago, TR1PTIK said:

So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

I can tell you how it will affect me. Old system I was a 1.1 index CH of 1. New system I am a 0.6 index CH +1

The CH calculations to me are going to be the biggest difference. 

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15 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I can tell you how it will affect me. Old system I was a 1.1 index CH of 1. New system I am a 0.6 index CH +1

The CH calculations to me are going to be the biggest difference. 

That’s the biggest difference I saw based on the article. The range of course handicaps he came up with for different scenarios seemed pretty wild to me. 
 

I’ve never really needed an official handicap for anything other than tracking progress of my game. I’m not sure if that will continue to be the case with events here in Texas and it seems like I will have to learn quite a bit about the new system if it’s required to play the events I want to play.

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19 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

I totally agree with his assessment of several things.

First, his point about adjusting course handicap based on course rating and par is very subjective, and will cause mass confusion.  Using my own home course, where the rating is 71.2 from the member tees, under the old system I was an 8 course handicap with a 6.9 index.  Now, even with my index up to 7.3, doing the math, my course handicap will now be a 7, because I have to subtract the 0.8 from the calculation because the rating is below par.  This will also be a confusing mess when you factor in senior tees and all of that.  The old guys are gonna be pissed to say the least because they'll be getting 3 fewer strokes (68.9 rating) then they were before.

Secondly, what he mentions about net double bogey is one of my biggest concerns with this new system.  I literally went through my home course to look at hole handicaps to make sure I know where I need to count up to triple bogey, versus just picking up after double bogey.  And because this is all so new, I played out a hole on Friday where I carded a 10, because I wasn't sure whether I need to post a 7 or an 8 for that hole.  This system will slow play down, because I am just guessing that most golfers, even avid ones, won't spend the time or effort to try and figure out whether they should be posting max double bogey or triple bogey, based on course handicap or other factors they really don't want to spend the time researching.

In short, this whole thing is a numbers mess that 99% of golfers won't bother with, effectively making a lot of handicaps invalid and meaningless for competition purposes.

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The GHIN.com desktop website is now working for posting scores from the course database.  I searched on a couple of courses in my area and they came up.  The hole-by-hole posting option is still not available that way, but at least you can search on a course and post by course for total score.

I checked the mobile app, and still not able to post anything, so that might be delayed a bit longer, as I am betting they are working through the desktop website first, and then they'll get the mobile app working.

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7 minutes ago, GSwag said:

In short, this whole thing is a numbers mess that 99% of golfers won't bother with, effectively making a lot of handicaps invalid and meaningless for competition purposes.

That’s how I feel, especially in regard to what you said about net double bogey and the replacement of ESC which was dead simple.

The spreadsheet I built for my unofficial handicap is about to get a lot more complex if I want to see how I look under the new system...

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1 minute ago, GSwag said:

The GHIN.com desktop website is now working for posting scores from the course database.  I searched on a couple of courses in my area and they came up.  The hole-by-hole posting option is still not available that way, but at least you can search on a course and post by course for total score.

I checked the mobile app, and still not able to post anything, so that might be delayed a bit longer, as I am betting they are working through the desktop website first, and then they'll get the mobile app working.

That’s very likely considering a large number of clubs still have a dedicated computer for members to input scores on the website.

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29 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

So I haven’t gone through the entire thread line by line, but I did read a few posts and Googled a few things about the new system before stumbling upon this article: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/voices-the-flaw-in-the-new-world-handicap-system-dean-knuth

Just curious what those with more knowledge about the changes think. Agree? Disagree? 

I read that.  It seems his biggest concern is around the addition of the (CR-Par) term in calculating a Course Handicap.  I just don't agree.  First, it takes the adjustment that has always been made for play from different tees, and makes it into a every-day adjustment.  People used to be mad and/or confused at every tournament where this adjustment was applied, now they'll just be mad/confused once, early this season.  Second, it everyone will not have a Course Handicap that, when they play pretty well, puts their net score right around par.  Third, it makes application of Net Double Bogey maximum equitable across all tees.

I agree that the Net Double is on one hand a better system, but on the other hand a little more confusing.  But people all over the world have been successfully using Stableford scoring for decades, Net Double is simply Stableford scoring phrased differently.  Those folks are not intrinsically smarter than Americans, but they do have more experience.  When we get more experience, we'll be fine.  And the newly enabled hole-by-hole scoring will allow us to let the computers figure it out for us.

9 minutes ago, GSwag said:

And because this is all so new, I played out a hole on Friday where I carded a 10, because I wasn't sure whether I need to post a 7 or an 8 for that hole.  

In short, this whole thing is a numbers mess that 99% of golfers won't bother with, effectively making a lot of handicaps invalid and meaningless for competition purposes.

You knew you should stop at either a 7 or an 8, and you putted out for a 10?  And the Handicap system is somehow responsible???  Sometimes we need a mirror.

I think its an extreme exaggeration to say that "99% of golfers wont bother".  Those who care about doing things right will figure it out.  Its not that complicated, its just a change.  And those who are looking for an excuse not to post scores, they'll have their excuse.

 

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28 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I read that.  It seems his biggest concern is around the addition of the (CR-Par) term in calculating a Course Handicap.  I just don't agree.  First, it takes the adjustment that has always been made for play from different tees, and makes it into a every-day adjustment.  People used to be mad and/or confused at every tournament where this adjustment was applied, now they'll just be mad/confused once, early this season.  Second, it everyone will not have a Course Handicap that, when they play pretty well, puts their net score right around par.  Third, it makes application of Net Double Bogey maximum equitable across all tees.

I agree that the Net Double is on one hand a better system, but on the other hand a little more confusing.  But people all over the world have been successfully using Stableford scoring for decades, Net Double is simply Stableford scoring phrased differently.  Those folks are not intrinsically smarter than Americans, but they do have more experience.  When we get more experience, we'll be fine.  And the newly enabled hole-by-hole scoring will allow us to let the computers figure it out for us.

You knew you should stop at either a 7 or an 8, and you putted out for a 10?  And the Handicap system is somehow responsible???  Sometimes we need a mirror.

I think its an extreme exaggeration to say that "99% of golfers wont bother".  Those who care about doing things right will figure it out.  Its not that complicated, its just a change.  And those who are looking for an excuse not to post scores, they'll have their excuse.

 

I'm using my 10 as an example.  Lighten up a bit and stop flaming just because you and I happen to have a different perspective on how (we think) this whole thing is going to shake out.

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9 minutes ago, GSwag said:

I'm using my 10 as an example.  Lighten up a bit and stop flaming just because you and I happen to have a different perspective on how (we think) this whole thing is going to shake out.

I apologize if that seemed like flaming, but I'd rather talk about real stuff.  To suggest that lots of players will take lots longer because they won't know when to stop strikes me as excessively alarmist  I have no doubt that some, maybe many, players will be a little confused at first.  For those, I'd suggest that they take one more stroke than they used to on par-5 holes, and one fewer on par-3 holes, and they'll be close.  But as I said, people have been doing this all over the world for a long long time, and don't have a problem understanding when to pick up.  We'll figure it out.  How long that will take, I can't be sure.

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