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Ball Position for Putting Start Line


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I've started my annual off-season tradition of pitting my putters against each other in a competition to determine which one starts next spring in the bag. Each year, I've tweaked the format of the testing a bit. This is the first year that I've incorporated the PuttOut putting gate. And it's been eye-opening.

I've only gone through three of the six putters in my testing, but the gate is showing me that I have a pronounced tendency to pull the ball. Out of 30 straight putts, I've hit the left base of the gate 12 times. I've yet to hit a single one right.

Somehow, this tendency escaped my notice on the course, likely because when I'm putting, I'm mostly thinking low side/high side of the hole rather than left side/right side. I've never charted my misses on course, but at this point, it would be surprising to me if it's anything but left.

I'm thinking that one fix would be to move my ball position back a bit. Here's a video that gives a good idea of my current position, which is just barely inside my left heel:

I'm thinking that if I moved that back an inch, it might calm down that pull tendency.

Anyone else done something similar, where you've changed your ball position for the purpose of altering your start line consistency?

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Lots of opinions on ball position in putting. Moving the back in your stance should move the ball more right since the face will be pointed more to the right at that point in the stroke. That assumes you don’t chance anything else to compensate for the change of ball position.

Impact is that it may work,
may work for a while, or not work at all. The question will be answered as your natural tendencies start to creep back into your stroke.

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SAMM putt lab showed I pull EVERY SINGLE SHOT- even when I knew it and tried not to I still pulled left (no wonder I missed so many 2 footers)

Ball now just left of centre and putting drill with 2 tees has stopped that...............thank goodness.

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In the video I notice that your left foot is a bit open, and that your putter path follows your left foot’s alignment. Your foot is open so you slightly cut across it.

Try bringing your left foot back to square. That might correct your pull.

I myself pull it because I get my right foot too far forward, which also creates an open stance. I have to setup and then pull my right foot back an inch or two or I’ll pull putts (especially the short ones!)


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First let me start by saying that I am not a good putter. I found this interesting because I am looking to improve this over the winter up here in the midwest. I have a number of issues with my putting and some of the guys I play with a lot say I just hammer (one of the reasons for the handle) or swat at the ball on the green. I miss left a lot but also have  speed issues. I have been looking for drills but also the last round I played while warming up I looked down and asked myself, where should the ball be in my stance? Right now I have it about at my big toe on my left foot. After seeing this post and some of the responses I am going to test out a new position tomorrow when I am out there. Fingers crossed this might help cut a stroke or 2 off the score. 

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... First thing to find out is are you are left eye dominant. If you are, I would not change ball positions unless it becomes a last resort. You are addressing the ball in the video with an open putter face, so you have to change the face angle coming into every putt. Our brains are much smarter than we give them credit and the internal conversation goes something like this:

"Are you honestly trying to hit the ball straight but aiming right of the hole again?

"I didn't notice because I am focusing on a million things at once! Now SHUT UP!"

"You know I am gonna close the face for you or you are gonna miss right, right?"

"I am ignoring you. Please let me focus! I have to worry about my stance, ball position, stroke length, if I have the right putter or need to buy a new one, my speed control and of course making the putt!"

"Well dam dude, I can take care of almost all of that. Why don't you just concentrate on speed after you give me a good look at the line? I'll keep it on track. Now, you could make it a lot easier on me if you have your putter face aimed at the line I'll use to use to make the putt, but I know that's probably asking too much when you, what was it?...  you have all those things to think about? LMAO!!!" 

 

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I've tried twice to post a comment here but ditched them before posting. And this is not going to be uplifting...

If you're not a very good putter and have tried and tried to become better it's probably not going to happen. You'll probably always be mediocre at best. It all has to do with the eyes-mind-arms/hands working in unison. The mind controls all of it. These three items have to work together and in sync. Sure, you can improve your ball striking and become a better driver of the ball. I've done it and seen many others do the same. But putting? Sorry. Different animal. Have you ever known someone who could see an object and then sketch it out on paper in a most accurate realistic rendering? I have and I'm always amazed at people who can do that. Their eyes-mind-hands do this in an almost magical way. I have zero artistic ability. Zero-zip-notta! I can't draw a stick picture. But, I can putt. Am I great ball striker? Not particularly. Driver of the ball? Pretty good most days. See what I mean? To be a truly good or great putter you either have it or you don't. If you don't; stop agonizing over it and improve other aspects of your game that you can actually control. Ball striking, chipping/pitching, driver. Improve those aspects and you might at least start feeling like you're putting better. Maybe.

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Lots of interesting comments here.

In another thread, I wrote up some of my observations from trying to move ball position. Short version: it's really hard to move the ball an inch or two. And as it wasn't producing any obvious immediate benefit, I abandoned that project quickly.

As @chisag noted, I do set up with my face open. Using a SwingByte, I've found that I aim about 2° open and then compensate by closing at impact. I generally do this quite consistently. Obviously, the pull problem is a matter of overdoing the compensation.

Why do I set up with an open face? Why not just aim the putter down the correct line? I do not see the line correctly. I've tested this extensively. I'll use a laser to establish the perfect line. Then I've placed a 4' metal ruler on the line and turned off the laser. When I address an 8' putt on that ruler, the ruler always looks to me to be pointing a ball or two to the left of the hole. I have experimented with all kinds of positions to try to get my head in a position in which the correct line looks correct. The only one that worked was addressing the putt left-handed; when I switched sides of the putt, the correct line looks right.

But after a bit of experimenting, I found that I'm really poor at putting left-handed.

On the course, Game Golf thinks I put roughly on the level of a 10 handicap. A couple seasons ago, I was closer to the level of a 5-cap. I'm typically averaging around 31 putts per nine [EDIT: should say "per eighteen."]. So I wouldn't consider myself a poor putter at all; like the rest of my game, I'm pretty ordinary, with some potential to sharpen things up a bit.

In my putter testing (the same link above), I changed my focus from my left hand to the palm of my right, with the image of rolling the ball down my intended line with my right hand. That slowed down the rate of closer and has made a statistically noticeable difference in the putter testing that I'm doing.

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1 hour ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

On the course, Game Golf thinks I put roughly on the level of a 10 handicap. A couple seasons ago, I was closer to the level of a 5-cap. I'm typically averaging around 31 putts per nine. So I wouldn't consider myself a poor putter at all; like the rest of my game, I'm pretty ordinary, with some potential to sharpen things up a bit.

I mean, there's your problem right there! 😉

Seriously though, I wonder if your closing face rate is equal to how open you set up at address. Based on the continued left miss I'm guessing it isn't and using a putter that wants to close down quicker isn't going to help the problem. 

I know you're a tinkerer MPR, so here's my suggestion as a fix and doesn't change much. I'm guessing you've got some lead tape, add it to the heel side of your putter to see if that weight difference helps you slow the rotation a touch. 

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20 minutes ago, bullldog said:


 

 


This is a miss print.. correct? Otherwise thats 3 putts a hole + some.

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Yes. Should be per 18, as @Berg RymanRyman noted.

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... In this crazy game so many of us compensate for one thing or another. After 2 back surgeries I address the ball with a slightly open stance because it helps get my hips out of the way taking pressure of my back. Of course I have to compensate for an open stance but feel it is the lessor of 2 evils. I do think however, that putting happens so much slower than a full swing so if possible, keeping things simple without compensation is always best. If you open your putter 2* it is almost impossible to return it 2* closed with 100% consistency because the brain wants to mirror what we do at address. I would highly recommend working on learning to read the line with a square face because it is so much easier to repeat. 

... That said, sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. 🤙

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On 10/26/2019 at 5:22 PM, PlaidJacket said:

It all has to do with the eyes-mind-arms/hands working in unison. The mind controls all of it.

I agree.  Not that the rest of the bag also requires this coordination, but I think putting is significantly more influenced by feel - the "artist" aspect you refer to. Several folks I play with in Yuma are mid 20 handicappers, poor ball strikers, but putt like Steve Stricker.  One has the craziest alignment and putting stroke you'll like ever see (think Wolff on the putting green 🙂) but the results are great.

My stance is pretty centered and square to the line.  My most recent change that has improved makes is less grip pressure in left hand and adopting the BK right index finger down the shaft.  Also making a conscious effort to be long more than short.

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On 10/26/2019 at 3:52 PM, chisag said:

... First thing to find out is are you are left eye dominant. If you are, I would not change ball positions unless it becomes a last resort. You are addressing the ball in the video with an open putter face, so you have to change the face angle coming into every putt. Our brains are much smarter than we give them credit and the internal conversation goes something like this:

"Are you honestly trying to hit the ball straight but aiming right of the hole again?

"I didn't notice because I am focusing on a million things at once! Now SHUT UP!"

"You know I am gonna close the face for you or you are gonna miss right, right?"

"I am ignoring you. Please let me focus! I have to worry about my stance, ball position, stroke length, if I have the right putter or need to buy a new one, my speed control and of course making the putt!"

"Well dam dude, I can take care of almost all of that. Why don't you just concentrate on speed after you give me a good look at the line? I'll keep it on track. Now, you could make it a lot easier on me if you have your putter face aimed at the line I'll use to use to make the putt, but I know that's probably asking too much when you, what was it?...  you have all those things to think about? LMAO!!!" 

 

LOL that is a classic example of someone's brain getting involved. Lots of times our eyes tell our hands and body what to do without getting the brain involved. I was always a instinct putter and player. And I absolutely think that has been the root of my putting problems lately getting my brain involved in the process 

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22 hours ago, Middler said:

I play once a week in a league, and it's astounding how many different putting styles there are, and the range of results. The ones that really get me are the ones who deliberately line up their putter face left or right, and compensate in putting. And the ones that use gobs of wrist action. Both would unnerve me, but I would never question anyone else's choices on the golf course, whatever we think works probably does more often than not - until we decide it doesn't anymore.

Older guys like me that grew up on Bermuda greens tend to be wristy with sorta a pop stroke. I think I had gotten away from that. I recently kinda got back on track with my feel from putting with an old Bulls Eye Putter. That is a bare balls no holds barred putter. either you hit it good or you don't. Trust me if you do not find that dime sized sweet spot it will let you know fast. If you hit the sweet spot you will know from the feel and see the roll on the ball. 

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I have a tendency to have the face pointing left of my target. It looks square to me. When someone moves my putter so it is square to the line, it looks like the face is very open.  Appreciate any feedback on this.

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On 10/26/2019 at 4:22 PM, PlaidJacket said:

I've tried twice to post a comment here but ditched them before posting. And this is not going to be uplifting...

If you're not a very good putter and have tried and tried to become better it's probably not going to happen. You'll probably always be mediocre at best. It all has to do with the eyes-mind-arms/hands working in unison. The mind controls all of it. These three items have to work together and in sync. Sure, you can improve your ball striking and become a better driver of the ball. I've done it and seen many others do the same. But putting? Sorry. Different animal. Have you ever known someone who could see an object and then sketch it out on paper in a most accurate realistic rendering? I have and I'm always amazed at people who can do that. Their eyes-mind-hands do this in an almost magical way. I have zero artistic ability. Zero-zip-notta! I can't draw a stick picture. But, I can putt. Am I great ball striker? Not particularly. Driver of the ball? Pretty good most days. See what I mean? To be a truly good or great putter you either have it or you don't. If you don't; stop agonizing over it and improve other aspects of your game that you can actually control. Ball striking, chipping/pitching, driver. Improve those aspects and you might at least start feeling like you're putting better. Maybe.

I disagree.  While some people seem to be born with better feel and can control the putter head better than the average player, I believe that anyone can learn to be a good putter.  While not true with ball striking, putting is something that most anyone can do as well as pros...with lots of practice!!  I started playing golf and for 15 years my pro said I had hands of stone; no touch.  So I practiced, a lot!  I even changed techniques and found a putter that fit me better.  It's true... the more you practice, the better you get.  How many golfer actually practice putting as much as they should to improve??  Not many.  It takes discipline.  We would all rather go play.

As I have said many times, I don't look at the ball when I putt.  I look at the hole.  So, I line up the ball to the line I read on the green, then square my putter to that line when standing over the ball.  At that point I only focus on speed.  I never question my line because I'm not looking at it over the ball.  That method helped me immensely because I had a tendency to move my eyes/head during the stroke.

For the past month I hadn't been putting as well as normal.  I thought it was the change in weather.  This past week I noticed that my stance had gotten narrower; I was standing taller, and that makes it easier to rotate a little, causing a pull.  When I widened my stance to where I remembered I used to stand, my putting came back to normal.

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27 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

I disagree.  While some people seem to be born with better feel and can control the putter head better than the average player, I believe that anyone can learn to be a good putter.  While not true with ball striking, putting is something that most anyone can do as well as pros...with lots of practice!!

Can't believe anyone would disagree with Plaid. But don't worry.... you won't be banned. And my "feelings" weren't hurt either. I'm old school. But be careful around the snowflakes Kenny. They'll come after you. LOL

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1 hour ago, Glftips said:

I have a tendency to have the face pointing left of my target. It looks square to me. When someone moves my putter so it is square to the line, it looks like the face is very open.  Appreciate any feedback on this.

 

... Believe it or not, the #1 fault I saw as an instructor was improper alignment. And that included full swings as well as putting. Other than aligning left because they were slicing (an open stance of course produces a slice) most aligned their body or stance to the target instead of like a railroad track where the ball is on one track and their body on the other aiming left of the target while the club head and ball are on the target line. This aligning to the right caused most to come over the top or have a closed face. Using alignment sticks or laying down club shafts can help train your eyes to see correct alignment. The best thing you can do is pick out a spot just in front of your putter along your intended line and align your putter face to that spot. For many, alignment is a learned skill and takes time and practice. 

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18 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said:

Can't believe anyone would disagree with Plaid. But don't worry.... you won't be banned. And my "feelings" weren't hurt either. I'm old school. But be careful around the snowflakes Kenny. They'll come after you. LOL

 

... I am kinda in the middle of you two. Seeing the line is an instinct some have and some don't. Proper speed is another skill some are just born with. So if you do either of these poorly, you can improve and get "better" as a putter but not sure you will ever be a "good" putter. Now learning to quiet your body, not flip thru impact and other faults can be corrected with patience and practice, lots of practice and this can definitely help improve your putting. With my 5 lesson package, I gave a 6th short game lesson for free and one thing became pretty obvious for most of my students, they were either naturally good at reading putts and producing proper speed or they were not. And while I helped improve many of my students putting, I really never had a student start seeing the line perfectly and develop a great feel for lag putting that did not have those traits naturally. 

...Kenny, I would add I have played with some amazing ball strikers that just didn't putt well enough to make it on tour. Guy I played with    that won twice on the Fla Mini Tour said putting is what separates the PGA from everyone else an that included some amazing players he had seen the were good putters, just not really good putters.  

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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On 10/24/2019 at 10:09 AM, GolfSpy MPR said:

Anyone else done something similar, where you've changed your ball position for the purpose of altering your start line consistency?

With my new birdieball indoor putting green I decided to move the ball level with my left foot, and my alignment seems to have improved dramatically.  It feels wierd to have the ball so far to the left right now, but it seems to be working, so we'll keep trying it as long as the results are positive.

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
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19 hours ago, Glftips said:

I have a tendency to have the face pointing left of my target. It looks square to me. When someone moves my putter so it is square to the line, it looks like the face is very open.  Appreciate any feedback on this.

In your case I would say it would be in how your eyes perceive the position of the face. IMHO a lot of times in golf our eyes tell our hands and body what to do without the brain involved. On my natural swing set up especially the irons I have the face open about 2* or so. For me it is natural and ingrained to prevent a hook. On putting I was an arc stroke putter for years and so the face was open at address. Now my hands and eyes do not work like they used to and I tend to keep the face fanned open or somehow naturally jerk shot it and pull putts and decelerate too. Recently I have been experimenting going back to being more wristy and using a Bulls Eye putter trying to get my feel back. In all of this I had also been experimenting left hand low. It felt weird at first but it has came to fruition lately for me. In your case if you feel that you have the face squared to your line aim a little right of the break or hole. It may take some practice to get used to but I feel in your case it may help. With me going left hand low it has stabilized the face square throughout the stroke. I had to prove the last to myself by using two driveway stakes anchored straight with tees. Yep I am straight throughout the stroke now.  Everyone sees and their body and eyes work differently. And I had a hard time believing and accepting it but your perception and reactions change with age

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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18 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

Can't believe anyone would disagree with Plaid. But don't worry.... you won't be banned. And my "feelings" weren't hurt either. I'm old school. But be careful around the snowflakes Kenny. They'll come after you. LOL

Yep no harm no foul but remember Plaid Kenny is an old schooler like you and I too!!!!

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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17 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I am kinda in the middle of you two. Seeing the line is an instinct some have and some don't. Proper speed is another skill some are just born with. So if you do either of these poorly, you can improve and get "better" as a putter but not sure you will ever be a "good" putter. Now learning to quiet your body, not flip thru impact and other faults can be corrected with patience and practice, lots of practice and this can definitely help improve your putting. With my 5 lesson package, I gave a 6th short game lesson for free and one thing became pretty obvious for most of my students, they were either naturally good at reading putts and producing proper speed or they were not. And while I helped improve many of my students putting, I really never had a student start seeing the line perfectly and develop a great feel for lag putting that did not have those traits naturally. 

...Kenny, I would add I have played with some amazing ball strikers that just didn't putt well enough to make it on tour. Guy I played with    that won twice on the Fla Mini Tour said putting is what separates the PGA from everyone else an that included some amazing players he had seen the were good putters, just not really good putters.  

That last paragraph says a whole lot!! Yeah putting kept me competitive over the years because I never was a great ball striker. I was more a scrambling type and had a reputation of being able to get up and down out of a trash can. My old man who was all about greens and fairways once remarked if I did not have the talent to get out of trouble with a 5 iron or wedges and putter I could not break 100 much less play competitive golf on a professional level. 

Now I have gotten older and my swing is shorter and slower I hit more fairways and greens than I ever did. But with age my putting has gone to crap. trust me it has drove me crazy the last 2 years. Trust me it can be a kick in the nads to shoot like 75 76 from the senior tees with say 4 missed birdie putts from 10 feet in and a couple of 3 putts. Especially when I WAS a stellar putter. I remember my first series of tournaments on the Florida Minis. A veteran got on me about stepping on his "through line". I got him to explain after the round. I was astonished at the fact he was talking about missing a 3 or 4 footer. I actually made him mad by asking him "who in the hell would even think about missing a 3 or 4 footer". Of course back then it was 22 year old nerves talking. He told someone who knew me that I was arrogant. That guy told him I was that good of a putter and if I ever got that fast swing and the driver under control watch out. Never did the last part until maybe 3 years ago guess that is why I drive a truck for a living and live in a mobile home.  

Edited by BIG STU

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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