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Yesterday on a whim I thought I'd try/test a replacement for my 4i. I was testing several 4i's (Titleist, Srixon, Ping, Callaway) on the indoor GC LM. I has hitting these new 4i something like 150-160 yards!!!! Total distance!! I currently bag and old TM Burner 2.0 4i as I found it much easier to play than my Wishon. I wasn't warmed up all that much and the day before I'd played 36. Ouch! Anyway... I jokingly asked if they could turn up the LM to show me hitting it further. Well guess what. They did just that and all of a sudden I was hitting the new 4i 190! About what I currently expect from my Burner 2.0.

I didn't really care at the time because I wasn't buying at the time and didn't have the Burner with me to compare. However, this is interesting. Since most guys are looking for distance all that's needed is to set up (juice) the LM in some way to show all clubs being tested to produce greater distance for the person trying out new clubs. In my case they did this on-the-fly in a matter of seconds without me noticing. Any thoughts guys?

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That’s why I always compare it to a known club for me. At least then I have a baseline because I know my “real” distance vs what is coming up on the monitor.


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I've seen 50 yd swings in driver distance depending on the LM/location. So it is crucial to bring your own and do a relative comparison. 

But that sure does raise some doubt as to how easily they can juice it when switching clubs to make one perform over the other. I've seen enough hidden cam reviews of how shady Jiffy Lubes are to upsell services and parts that they don't even put on or complete.  It makes it hard to trust the numbers when they obviously want to sell something. 

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Always have the club you are replacing with you to get baseline. Never trust a monitor especially at big box stores

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5 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

Yesterday on a whim

 

5 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

I didn't really care at the time because I wasn't buying at the time and didn't have the Burner with me to compare

I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off.

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4 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said:

 

I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off.

Sometimes stores have things programmed for driver and if they don’t change the club then the software bases off the driver so when it sees the launch and spin it’s estimating the distance.

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was it juiced or not set up properly in the beginning?

That said, it is completely wrong to do that. I actually tweak mine down so as not to give a false impression of distance.

When the golfer actually hits a good one then a more positive mental set up occurs.

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A computer is only as good as it's user, LM's are the same. In order to get good results they have to be programmed correctly. 

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Interesting I have noticed several times going to a big box or local fitter and not having my own clubs the difference place to place can make I never buy unless i have the club(s) I'm trying to replace to compare. or at least compare something similar from another brand to prove to myself its not just the specific club I'm hitting. 

I have an Optishot I use at home but you have to choose specific club your hitting and your average distance you hit that club so I dont trust distance on that either.

I have also noticed that most shots i am hitting with my own clubs do not go as far as i expect on the course. Obviously Carry vs Total plays a role in it but i usually try to check total as well and its usually 5-10 yards less them I see on the course. 

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Most of these systems have preset or selectable smash factors to back calculate club head speed from ball speed. So that is a number that should usually be ignored. Altitude is another easy one to affect distance even if other numbers look similar to your expectations. 

As others have mentioned, the key is to compare to your gamer. Or make sure to test multiple demos on the same sim to see what performs best if you are buying something that doesn't have a direct replacement in your existing bag. Occasionally, I will hit the same club at 2 different stores (on different days) to get an additional data point when I am comparing clubs and verify readings. 

For example, I decided to spend on the True Golf Fit analysis on this site and got M5 and G410 as first and second recommendations. I hit them indoors and quickly eliminated the M5 from consideration. Earlier in the year I was "fit" into a TS3 at a Titleist Thursday using a Trackman outdoors. That head loft and shaft weight was used for all of these tests. 

The Cobra F9 was one of the last drivers I hit this year and compared it to the G410 on the same sim one day after I played 18 and felt I would have a representative swing of what I would bring to the course (including fatigue). The numbers seemed too good to be true, so I brought in my gamer (2015 XR) and was seeing averages approx 15-20 yards longer with the Cobra as well as tighter dispersion. The Ping was 5 yards behind the Cobra, most of these differences were due to spin, with the XR pushing 3000 rpm in a 10.5 head causing the distance loss and a shaft being too light affecting my timing. 

All this taught me you can do a pretty good self-fitting if you have the time and rough knowledge of launch and spin ranges for your average club head speed. But the apples to apples comparison of your gamer on the same sim is the most important part so you can measure any gains. 

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When I bought my 3 wood last weekend I demoed it on Dick's LM at the local store here and I noticed the kid had the settings set for Driver as the club.  I asked him to switch it to 3 wood and he said club selection on the LM didn't matter.  I beg to disagree.

Perhaps that's what happened in your case.  They change the club selection to juice it up, or had the wrong club selection initially, which cause the false numbers when you started?

I'm honestly no expert on launch monitors, but I would think selecting the right club is important in giving you accurate numbers and feedback.

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When I bought my 3 wood last weekend I demoed it on Dick's LM at the local store here and I noticed the kid had the settings set for Driver as the club.  I asked him to switch it to 3 wood and he said club selection on the LM didn't matter.  I beg to disagree.

Perhaps that's what happened in your case.  They change the club selection to juice it up, or had the wrong club selection initially, which cause the false numbers when you started?

I'm honestly no expert on launch monitors, but I would think selecting the right club is important in giving you accurate numbers and feedback.

Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs.

 

The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here.

 

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Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs.
 
The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here.
 
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So from my research the SC300 and like devices need the club so they know the launch window and loft helps them calculate some of the data.
I'm not sure how the more expensive ones are working they may have some settings based on clubs but I thought it was mainly to differentiate which clubs when looking at data.

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58 minutes ago, pozzit said:

So from my research the SC300 and like devices need the club so they know the launch window and loft helps them calculate some of the data.
I'm not sure how the more expensive ones are working they may have some settings based on clubs but I thought it was mainly to differentiate which clubs when looking at data.

Using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

The expensive ones do as well. I’ve been to fittings where they had to setup the lm from the guy before me hitting driver and I was hitting irons. 

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The expensive ones do as well. I’ve been to fittings where they had to setup the lm from the guy before me hitting driver and I was hitting irons. 

Probably depends on the unit.  From what I have seen and know,  the GC Quad doesn't need to be setup for club type.

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39 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Probably depends on the unit.  From what I have seen and know,  the GC Quad doesn't need to be setup for club type.

True. Trackman is normally what I’ve been for to and between getting camera aligned and setting up for club selection have had to be done. Camera and unit height were changed for 3w off the tee

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Happy I stumbled over this thread. I had a couple of LM sessions and couldn’t figure out why everything I hit was not the same as on the course. I think you guys clued me in.


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Happy I stumbled over this thread. I had a couple of LM sessions and couldn’t figure out why everything I hit was not the same as on the course. I think you guys clued me in.

 

 

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So did the LM show you as longer? When I had my fitting the Trackman data seemed to be pretty close to reality, in fact I continue to refer to the Trackman data as a reference point.

 

 

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I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off.

All that needs to be changed is elevation. I caught one location having the elevation set at 10,000 feet! No lie.
Dick’s here, back when the Great Big Bertha was launched, and Callaway was having a competition where one would show how much further they hit the GBB, had the monitor switched each time someone went to the GBB. Hilarious.


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So did the LM show you as longer? When I had my fitting the Trackman data seemed to be pretty close to reality, in fact I continue to refer to the Trackman data as a reference point.
 
 
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Mine was shorter, almost scary short. I primarily used the LM for ball speed, launch angle and spin. I didn’t trust distance.


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