PlaidJacket Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Yesterday on a whim I thought I'd try/test a replacement for my 4i. I was testing several 4i's (Titleist, Srixon, Ping, Callaway) on the indoor GC LM. I has hitting these new 4i something like 150-160 yards!!!! Total distance!! I currently bag and old TM Burner 2.0 4i as I found it much easier to play than my Wishon. I wasn't warmed up all that much and the day before I'd played 36. Ouch! Anyway... I jokingly asked if they could turn up the LM to show me hitting it further. Well guess what. They did just that and all of a sudden I was hitting the new 4i 190! About what I currently expect from my Burner 2.0. I didn't really care at the time because I wasn't buying at the time and didn't have the Burner with me to compare. However, this is interesting. Since most guys are looking for distance all that's needed is to set up (juice) the LM in some way to show all clubs being tested to produce greater distance for the person trying out new clubs. In my case they did this on-the-fly in a matter of seconds without me noticing. Any thoughts guys? revkev 1 Quote My Sun Mountain bag currently includes: 771CSI 5i - PW and PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges EXS 10.5*, 929-HS FW4 16.5* Willimette w/GolfPride Contour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 That’s why I always compare it to a known club for me. At least then I have a baseline because I know my “real” distance vs what is coming up on the monitor. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk BMart519 1 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romeopapazulu Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 I've seen 50 yd swings in driver distance depending on the LM/location. So it is crucial to bring your own and do a relative comparison. But that sure does raise some doubt as to how easily they can juice it when switching clubs to make one perform over the other. I've seen enough hidden cam reviews of how shady Jiffy Lubes are to upsell services and parts that they don't even put on or complete. It makes it hard to trust the numbers when they obviously want to sell something. Quote G400 LST 8.5 Ping Tour 65 Stiff Adams XTD Ti 18 deg 3Hy Ben Hogan PTx 22-46 Ben Hogan TK15 50, 54, 58 deg wedges Futura 5.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 Always have the club you are replacing with you to get baseline. Never trust a monitor especially at big box stores Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaidJacket Posted November 10, 2019 Author Share Posted November 10, 2019 5 hours ago, PlaidJacket said: Yesterday on a whim 5 hours ago, PlaidJacket said: I didn't really care at the time because I wasn't buying at the time and didn't have the Burner with me to compare I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off. Quote My Sun Mountain bag currently includes: 771CSI 5i - PW and PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges EXS 10.5*, 929-HS FW4 16.5* Willimette w/GolfPride Contour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said: I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off. Sometimes stores have things programmed for driver and if they don’t change the club then the software bases off the driver so when it sees the launch and spin it’s estimating the distance. jrshields3 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGolf Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 was it juiced or not set up properly in the beginning? That said, it is completely wrong to do that. I actually tweak mine down so as not to give a false impression of distance. When the golfer actually hits a good one then a more positive mental set up occurs. tktmsa 1 Quote Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg Graphite Design XC 6S GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce Putter - Makefield VS LH Ball - truvis Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD. HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 A computer is only as good as it's user, LM's are the same. In order to get good results they have to be programmed correctly. Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozzit Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Interesting I have noticed several times going to a big box or local fitter and not having my own clubs the difference place to place can make I never buy unless i have the club(s) I'm trying to replace to compare. or at least compare something similar from another brand to prove to myself its not just the specific club I'm hitting. I have an Optishot I use at home but you have to choose specific club your hitting and your average distance you hit that club so I dont trust distance on that either. I have also noticed that most shots i am hitting with my own clubs do not go as far as i expect on the course. Obviously Carry vs Total plays a role in it but i usually try to check total as well and its usually 5-10 yards less them I see on the course. Quote Driver: Ben Hogan GS53 4W: Maltby KE4 2i: Maltby KE4 FDI 4-PW: Maltby TS-1 - C-Taper 120g 50,54,58: Maltby TSW Putter: L.A.B. DF2.1 Accra Shaft 2023 Forum Testers - L.A.B. Putters Ball: Mixed prefer ProV1 or Snell Handicap: 9.2 - Best Score: 72 (E) Springdale CC, Canton NC -2022 2020 Forum Tester - Ben Hogan GS53 Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMart519 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Most of these systems have preset or selectable smash factors to back calculate club head speed from ball speed. So that is a number that should usually be ignored. Altitude is another easy one to affect distance even if other numbers look similar to your expectations. As others have mentioned, the key is to compare to your gamer. Or make sure to test multiple demos on the same sim to see what performs best if you are buying something that doesn't have a direct replacement in your existing bag. Occasionally, I will hit the same club at 2 different stores (on different days) to get an additional data point when I am comparing clubs and verify readings. For example, I decided to spend on the True Golf Fit analysis on this site and got M5 and G410 as first and second recommendations. I hit them indoors and quickly eliminated the M5 from consideration. Earlier in the year I was "fit" into a TS3 at a Titleist Thursday using a Trackman outdoors. That head loft and shaft weight was used for all of these tests. The Cobra F9 was one of the last drivers I hit this year and compared it to the G410 on the same sim one day after I played 18 and felt I would have a representative swing of what I would bring to the course (including fatigue). The numbers seemed too good to be true, so I brought in my gamer (2015 XR) and was seeing averages approx 15-20 yards longer with the Cobra as well as tighter dispersion. The Ping was 5 yards behind the Cobra, most of these differences were due to spin, with the XR pushing 3000 rpm in a 10.5 head causing the distance loss and a shaft being too light affecting my timing. All this taught me you can do a pretty good self-fitting if you have the time and rough knowledge of launch and spin ranges for your average club head speed. But the apples to apples comparison of your gamer on the same sim is the most important part so you can measure any gains. JohnSmalls and tony@CIC 2 Quote G425 MAX Driver & 5W Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H 699 Pro Utility V2 - 4i APEX CF19 6-AW INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 EAS 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. 82 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 When I bought my 3 wood last weekend I demoed it on Dick's LM at the local store here and I noticed the kid had the settings set for Driver as the club. I asked him to switch it to 3 wood and he said club selection on the LM didn't matter. I beg to disagree. Perhaps that's what happened in your case. They change the club selection to juice it up, or had the wrong club selection initially, which cause the false numbers when you started? I'm honestly no expert on launch monitors, but I would think selecting the right club is important in giving you accurate numbers and feedback. JohnSmalls and tony@CIC 2 Quote G400 Driver XR 4 Fairway 16.5° Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21° G Series 5-9 irons SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58° Ghost Spider S putter Nexus Laser Rangefinder Garmin Approach S20 GPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony@CIC Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 When I bought my 3 wood last weekend I demoed it on Dick's LM at the local store here and I noticed the kid had the settings set for Driver as the club. I asked him to switch it to 3 wood and he said club selection on the LM didn't matter. I beg to disagree. Perhaps that's what happened in your case. They change the club selection to juice it up, or had the wrong club selection initially, which cause the false numbers when you started? I'm honestly no expert on launch monitors, but I would think selecting the right club is important in giving you accurate numbers and feedback.Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs. The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Mr. 82 1 Quote Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozzit Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs. The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpySo from my research the SC300 and like devices need the club so they know the launch window and loft helps them calculate some of the data. I'm not sure how the more expensive ones are working they may have some settings based on clubs but I thought it was mainly to differentiate which clubs when looking at data.Using MyGolfSpy mobile app cnosil 1 Quote Driver: Ben Hogan GS53 4W: Maltby KE4 2i: Maltby KE4 FDI 4-PW: Maltby TS-1 - C-Taper 120g 50,54,58: Maltby TSW Putter: L.A.B. DF2.1 Accra Shaft 2023 Forum Testers - L.A.B. Putters Ball: Mixed prefer ProV1 or Snell Handicap: 9.2 - Best Score: 72 (E) Springdale CC, Canton NC -2022 2020 Forum Tester - Ben Hogan GS53 Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 58 minutes ago, pozzit said: So from my research the SC300 and like devices need the club so they know the launch window and loft helps them calculate some of the data. I'm not sure how the more expensive ones are working they may have some settings based on clubs but I thought it was mainly to differentiate which clubs when looking at data. Using MyGolfSpy mobile app The expensive ones do as well. I’ve been to fittings where they had to setup the lm from the guy before me hitting driver and I was hitting irons. tony@CIC 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: The expensive ones do as well. I’ve been to fittings where they had to setup the lm from the guy before me hitting driver and I was hitting irons. Probably depends on the unit. From what I have seen and know, the GC Quad doesn't need to be setup for club type. Quigleyd 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 39 minutes ago, cnosil said: Probably depends on the unit. From what I have seen and know, the GC Quad doesn't need to be setup for club type. True. Trackman is normally what I’ve been for to and between getting camera aligned and setting up for club selection have had to be done. Camera and unit height were changed for 3w off the tee cnosil 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Happy I stumbled over this thread. I had a couple of LM sessions and couldn’t figure out why everything I hit was not the same as on the course. I think you guys clued me in.Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy cnosil and tony@CIC 2 Quote Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony@CIC Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Happy I stumbled over this thread. I had a couple of LM sessions and couldn’t figure out why everything I hit was not the same as on the course. I think you guys clued me in. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpySo did the LM show you as longer? When I had my fitting the Trackman data seemed to be pretty close to reality, in fact I continue to refer to the Trackman data as a reference point. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Rickp 1 Quote Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off.All that needs to be changed is elevation. I caught one location having the elevation set at 10,000 feet! No lie.Dick’s here, back when the Great Big Bertha was launched, and Callaway was having a competition where one would show how much further they hit the GBB, had the monitor switched each time someone went to the GBB. Hilarious.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Rickp and tony@CIC 2 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 So did the LM show you as longer? When I had my fitting the Trackman data seemed to be pretty close to reality, in fact I continue to refer to the Trackman data as a reference point. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpyMine was shorter, almost scary short. I primarily used the LM for ball speed, launch angle and spin. I didn’t trust distance.Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy tony@CIC 1 Quote Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toehold57 Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Mine was shorter, almost scary short. I primarily used the LM for ball speed, launch angle and spin. I didn’t trust distance.Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpyShort for me as well. My 6iron is a solid 160-170yd club. On the LM it was 140 Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Rickp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony@CIC Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Mine was shorter, almost scary short. I primarily used the LM for ball speed, launch angle and spin. I didn’t trust distance.Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpyI use my SC200 for SS, ball speed and smash factor. Even then it's about improvement rather than accuracy on the data. Never thought the distances were accurate, especially with the short irons. The Trackman on the other hand was spot on. However, that was at a fitter vs. a big box store. So he must have it set up for more accurate data. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Rickp 1 Quote Left Hand orientation SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft Cobra Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft 410 Hybrids 22*, 26* Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts SM7 54* Wedge Glide 3.0 60* Wedge O Works putter V3 NX9-HD - 4 Wheel EZGO TXT 48v cart - too many shoes to list and so many to buy And BAG Boy Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 2020 Official Tester Beginning Driver Speed - 78 2019 Official Tester 410 Driver 2018 Official Tester C300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quigleyd Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) On 11/13/2019 at 2:02 PM, tony@CIC said: Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs. The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy I fit people daily on a GC quad. I only change the club setting if I am doing a progression and want to keep track of which club it was for discussion after wards. If we are just banging away it is set on driver as default. I also hit 1000s of shots on the GC quad and can tell you with 100% certainty with that system it does not matter. It is only there as a grouping option for collected shot data. Edited December 2, 2019 by Quigleyd cnosil and Rickp 2 Quote Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x 3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 This is an important thread for everyone to read. I would never trust an LM in a big box store unless I knew it’s operator. As another little unhappy observation if the numbers you are getting on a LM seem lower than how far you think you hit the ball on the course and you aren’t using a tracking system of some sort - get a tracking system because the LM is probably right. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy cnosil and Rickp 2 Quote Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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