Jump to content
Testers Wanted: RUNNER Golf and Byrdie Golf Design ×

Juicing a LM


Recommended Posts

Yesterday on a whim I thought I'd try/test a replacement for my 4i. I was testing several 4i's (Titleist, Srixon, Ping, Callaway) on the indoor GC LM. I has hitting these new 4i something like 150-160 yards!!!! Total distance!! I currently bag and old TM Burner 2.0 4i as I found it much easier to play than my Wishon. I wasn't warmed up all that much and the day before I'd played 36. Ouch! Anyway... I jokingly asked if they could turn up the LM to show me hitting it further. Well guess what. They did just that and all of a sudden I was hitting the new 4i 190! About what I currently expect from my Burner 2.0.

I didn't really care at the time because I wasn't buying at the time and didn't have the Burner with me to compare. However, this is interesting. Since most guys are looking for distance all that's needed is to set up (juice) the LM in some way to show all clubs being tested to produce greater distance for the person trying out new clubs. In my case they did this on-the-fly in a matter of seconds without me noticing. Any thoughts guys?

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s why I always compare it to a known club for me. At least then I have a baseline because I know my “real” distance vs what is coming up on the monitor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen 50 yd swings in driver distance depending on the LM/location. So it is crucial to bring your own and do a relative comparison. 

But that sure does raise some doubt as to how easily they can juice it when switching clubs to make one perform over the other. I've seen enough hidden cam reviews of how shady Jiffy Lubes are to upsell services and parts that they don't even put on or complete.  It makes it hard to trust the numbers when they obviously want to sell something. 

:ping-small: G400 LST 8.5 Ping Tour 65 Stiff

:adams-small: Adams XTD Ti 18 deg 3Hy

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan PTx 22-46 

:benhogan-small: Ben Hogan TK15 50, 54, 58 deg wedges

:cameron-small: Futura 5.5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Always have the club you are replacing with you to get baseline. Never trust a monitor especially at big box stores

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

Yesterday on a whim

 

5 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

I didn't really care at the time because I wasn't buying at the time and didn't have the Burner with me to compare

I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said:

 

I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off.

Sometimes stores have things programmed for driver and if they don’t change the club then the software bases off the driver so when it sees the launch and spin it’s estimating the distance.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

was it juiced or not set up properly in the beginning?

That said, it is completely wrong to do that. I actually tweak mine down so as not to give a false impression of distance.

When the golfer actually hits a good one then a more positive mental set up occurs.

Driver - 44.5" 5.0 flex 10.5 deg Graphite Design XC 6S GP MCC4+ 1 deg closed

Irons - 5-pw, GW stnd length 5.0 flex same grip 1 deg flat. Type low medium offset cavity back, no diggers

Wedges - 56 and 60 tour grind wedge spinner and mcc4+ grip 2 flat 10 and 8 in bounce

Putter - Makefield VS LH

Ball - truvis

Carried in a Sun Mountain C-130 USA bag - BE PROUD.

HC - LH but 85 is a good number, playing in Ohio.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A computer is only as good as it's user, LM's are the same. In order to get good results they have to be programmed correctly. 

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

:ping-small:          G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:ping-small:          G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x)

:srixon-small:            ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S)

:titleist-small:            Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610)

 :titleist-small:           Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610)

:taylormade-small:     Spider GT Splitback 34"

 :titleist-small:           ProV1 #23

Twitter             @THEZIPR23

 

"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting I have noticed several times going to a big box or local fitter and not having my own clubs the difference place to place can make I never buy unless i have the club(s) I'm trying to replace to compare. or at least compare something similar from another brand to prove to myself its not just the specific club I'm hitting. 

I have an Optishot I use at home but you have to choose specific club your hitting and your average distance you hit that club so I dont trust distance on that either.

I have also noticed that most shots i am hitting with my own clubs do not go as far as i expect on the course. Obviously Carry vs Total plays a role in it but i usually try to check total as well and its usually 5-10 yards less them I see on the course. 

Driver:  Ben Hogan GS53
4W:  Maltby KE4 
2i: Maltby KE4 FDI 
4-PW:  Maltby TS-1 - C-Taper 120g 
50,54,58: Maltby TSW

Putter:  L.A.B. DF2.1 Accra Shaft 2023 Forum Testers - L.A.B. Putters
Ball: Mixed prefer ProV1 or Snell
Handicap: 9.2  -  Best Score: 72 (E) Springdale CC, Canton NC -2022

2020 Forum Tester - Ben Hogan GS53 Driver

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most of these systems have preset or selectable smash factors to back calculate club head speed from ball speed. So that is a number that should usually be ignored. Altitude is another easy one to affect distance even if other numbers look similar to your expectations. 

As others have mentioned, the key is to compare to your gamer. Or make sure to test multiple demos on the same sim to see what performs best if you are buying something that doesn't have a direct replacement in your existing bag. Occasionally, I will hit the same club at 2 different stores (on different days) to get an additional data point when I am comparing clubs and verify readings. 

For example, I decided to spend on the True Golf Fit analysis on this site and got M5 and G410 as first and second recommendations. I hit them indoors and quickly eliminated the M5 from consideration. Earlier in the year I was "fit" into a TS3 at a Titleist Thursday using a Trackman outdoors. That head loft and shaft weight was used for all of these tests. 

The Cobra F9 was one of the last drivers I hit this year and compared it to the G410 on the same sim one day after I played 18 and felt I would have a representative swing of what I would bring to the course (including fatigue). The numbers seemed too good to be true, so I brought in my gamer (2015 XR) and was seeing averages approx 15-20 yards longer with the Cobra as well as tighter dispersion. The Ping was 5 yards behind the Cobra, most of these differences were due to spin, with the XR pushing 3000 rpm in a 10.5 head causing the distance loss and a shaft being too light affecting my timing. 

All this taught me you can do a pretty good self-fitting if you have the time and rough knowledge of launch and spin ranges for your average club head speed. But the apples to apples comparison of your gamer on the same sim is the most important part so you can measure any gains. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX 9* Driver

:cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 3H-4H

:touredgeexotics: CBX 119 16* 2 hyb

:callaway-small: APEX CF19 6-AW

INDI Wedges 52, 56, 60 

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Tuttle / :edel-golf-1: EAS 2.0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I bought my 3 wood last weekend I demoed it on Dick's LM at the local store here and I noticed the kid had the settings set for Driver as the club.  I asked him to switch it to 3 wood and he said club selection on the LM didn't matter.  I beg to disagree.

Perhaps that's what happened in your case.  They change the club selection to juice it up, or had the wrong club selection initially, which cause the false numbers when you started?

I'm honestly no expert on launch monitors, but I would think selecting the right club is important in giving you accurate numbers and feedback.

  • :ping-small: G400 Driver
  • :callaway-small: XR 4 Fairway 16.5°
  • :mizuno-small: Fli-Hi Utility Iron - 21°
  • :ping-small: G Series 5-9 irons
  • :titelist-small: :vokey-small: SM7 46°, 50°, 54° & 58°
  • :taylormade-small: Ghost Spider S putter
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Nexus Laser Rangefinder
  • Garmin Approach S20 GPS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I bought my 3 wood last weekend I demoed it on Dick's LM at the local store here and I noticed the kid had the settings set for Driver as the club.  I asked him to switch it to 3 wood and he said club selection on the LM didn't matter.  I beg to disagree.

Perhaps that's what happened in your case.  They change the club selection to juice it up, or had the wrong club selection initially, which cause the false numbers when you started?

I'm honestly no expert on launch monitors, but I would think selecting the right club is important in giving you accurate numbers and feedback.

Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs.

 

The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here.

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs.
 
The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here.
 
Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
So from my research the SC300 and like devices need the club so they know the launch window and loft helps them calculate some of the data.
I'm not sure how the more expensive ones are working they may have some settings based on clubs but I thought it was mainly to differentiate which clubs when looking at data.

Using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Driver:  Ben Hogan GS53
4W:  Maltby KE4 
2i: Maltby KE4 FDI 
4-PW:  Maltby TS-1 - C-Taper 120g 
50,54,58: Maltby TSW

Putter:  L.A.B. DF2.1 Accra Shaft 2023 Forum Testers - L.A.B. Putters
Ball: Mixed prefer ProV1 or Snell
Handicap: 9.2  -  Best Score: 72 (E) Springdale CC, Canton NC -2022

2020 Forum Tester - Ben Hogan GS53 Driver

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, pozzit said:

So from my research the SC300 and like devices need the club so they know the launch window and loft helps them calculate some of the data.
I'm not sure how the more expensive ones are working they may have some settings based on clubs but I thought it was mainly to differentiate which clubs when looking at data.

Using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

The expensive ones do as well. I’ve been to fittings where they had to setup the lm from the guy before me hitting driver and I was hitting irons. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The expensive ones do as well. I’ve been to fittings where they had to setup the lm from the guy before me hitting driver and I was hitting irons. 

Probably depends on the unit.  From what I have seen and know,  the GC Quad doesn't need to be setup for club type.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Probably depends on the unit.  From what I have seen and know,  the GC Quad doesn't need to be setup for club type.

True. Trackman is normally what I’ve been for to and between getting camera aligned and setting up for club selection have had to be done. Camera and unit height were changed for 3w off the tee

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Happy I stumbled over this thread. I had a couple of LM sessions and couldn’t figure out why everything I hit was not the same as on the course. I think you guys clued me in.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Happy I stumbled over this thread. I had a couple of LM sessions and couldn’t figure out why everything I hit was not the same as on the course. I think you guys clued me in.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

So did the LM show you as longer? When I had my fitting the Trackman data seemed to be pretty close to reality, in fact I continue to refer to the Trackman data as a reference point.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't go in for a fitting. I was basically goofing off. But juicing a LM is easy to do on the fly I guess. I personally don't like using a LM especially indoors. What was interesting to me was I was only getting 150-160 yards out of the 4i I tested. Hell, I can lash a putter that far down a fairway. Something was off.

All that needs to be changed is elevation. I caught one location having the elevation set at 10,000 feet! No lie.
Dick’s here, back when the Great Big Bertha was launched, and Callaway was having a competition where one would show how much further they hit the GBB, had the monitor switched each time someone went to the GBB. Hilarious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So did the LM show you as longer? When I had my fitting the Trackman data seemed to be pretty close to reality, in fact I continue to refer to the Trackman data as a reference point.
 
 
Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Mine was shorter, almost scary short. I primarily used the LM for ball speed, launch angle and spin. I didn’t trust distance.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Mine was shorter, almost scary short. I primarily used the LM for ball speed, launch angle and spin. I didn’t trust distance.

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy



Short for me as well. My 6iron is a solid 160-170yd club. On the LM it was 140



Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Mine was shorter, almost scary short. I primarily used the LM for ball speed, launch angle and spin. I didn’t trust distance.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I use my SC200 for SS, ball speed and smash factor. Even then it's about improvement rather than accuracy on the data. Never thought the distances were accurate, especially with the short irons.

The Trackman on the other hand was spot on. However, that was at a fitter vs. a big box store. So he must have it set up for more accurate data.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/13/2019 at 2:02 PM, tony@CIC said:

Correct and if it didn't make a difference why would they even have different club options available on the LM. My cheapo SC200 not only has different club options available but also allows you to change the loft for each of those clubs.

 

The old adage 'buyer beware' applies here.

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

I fit people daily on a GC quad. I only change the club setting if I am doing a progression and want to keep track of which club it was for discussion after wards. If we are just banging away it is set on driver as default. I also hit 1000s of shots on the GC quad and can tell you with 100% certainty with that system it does not matter. It is only there as a grouping option for collected shot data. 

Edited by Quigleyd

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

This is an important thread for everyone to read. I would never trust an LM in a big box store unless I knew it’s operator.

As another little unhappy observation if the numbers you are getting on a LM seem lower than how far you think you hit the ball on the course and you aren’t using a tracking system of some sort - get a tracking system because the LM is probably right. 🤬


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...