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tony@CIC

Most Wanted Personal Launch Monitors

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I just read the latest and thought it was generally good. I was disappointed that it didn't show the variances in the various metrics. For instance if you use Trackman or another/more accurate device as a baseline, what is the difference between the units in all of the metrics, i.e. swing speed, ball speed, distance, etc. For me that would have been more meaningful than a forced ranking. Just my thoughts. 

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1 minute ago, tony@CIC said:

I just read the latest and thought it was generally good. I was disappointed that it didn't show the variances in the various metrics. For instance if you use Trackman or another/more accurate device as a baseline, what is the difference between the units in all of the metrics, i.e. swing speed, ball speed, distance, etc. For me that would have been more meaningful than a forced ranking. Just my thoughts. 

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51 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I just read the latest and thought it was generally good. I was disappointed that it didn't show the variances in the various metrics. For instance if you use Trackman or another/more accurate device as a baseline, what is the difference between the units in all of the metrics, i.e. swing speed, ball speed, distance, etc. For me that would have been more meaningful than a forced ranking. Just my thoughts. 

Agreed!  I just tried to post a comment asking a similar question, though, based on the top 3 ranked monitors.  I also would like to know at which higher swing speeds do the monitors struggle, and what the struggles mean to accuracy of the data.

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48 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I just read the latest and thought it was generally good. I was disappointed that it didn't show the variances in the various metrics. For instance if you use Trackman or another/more accurate device as a baseline, what is the difference between the units in all of the metrics, i.e. swing speed, ball speed, distance, etc. For me that would have been more meaningful than a forced ranking. Just my thoughts. 

Completely agree I was hoping for that as well. Give an idea of the Deviations compared to the GCQuad/Trackman. If the Skytrak is read measurements of 100-108MPH and the professional one read 102-104 MPH this gives me a better idea to understand the differences. 

They used the comparison to a calculator in the article. If the perfect calculator gives me an answer of 83.2767 and my calculator reads 83.3 that may not be an issue if it reads 87 then we may have a problem. I get this testing is immensely time consuming but gives a data driven comparison. 

I would probably be able to accept a 2% deviation or more on most metrics (Ball Speed ± 3mph, 150 Distance ± 3yrds, Spin ± 200) Which may allow me to spend $500 or $2000 all depends. I don't want people to buy a cheap one expecting exact numbers or spending more and not needing the precision.

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While I would have liked to see that type of detail as well. The gcquad vs the Doppler units would probably be easy since the are in different positions. Wonder how they compared the skytrak since it would be in a similar position.

A table showing x number of driver, long iron, mid iron, wedge, and distance wedge shots at different swing speeds would have been a nice comparison chart.

To me it seems like unless you are purchasing a skytrak it is best to pass at this time; especially for me since I want to practice distance wedge shots.

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On 11/15/2019 at 1:24 PM, cnosil said:

To me it seems like unless you are purchasing a skytrak it is best to pass at this time; especially for me since I want to practice distance wedge shots.

Once I listened to the episode of No Putts Given where they discussed the results, I pretty much lost interest.  It's a shame, because I'd love to set up a practice station in the garage for my daughter and me, but not with what I heard and read.  $2000 will buy a whole bunch of TM sessions at The First Tee.  And it's warmer there than in my garage.

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Once I listened to the episode of No Putts Given where they discussed the results, I pretty much lost interest.  It's a shame, because I'd love to set up a practice station in the garage for my daughter and me, but not with what I heard and read.  $2000 will buy a whole bunch of TM sessions at The First Tee.  And it's warmer there than in my garage.
Yea I and to the same conclusion when looking at these launch monitors. I got an Optishot a few years back off eBay for around $250 and although it has plenty of flaws it gets me swinging a few times a week and I get to see ball flights. I don't really trust driver on it and putting is questionable but it does well on swing path.

Using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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Some general thoughts on use of launch monitors.

As we know they are used for launch characteristics mostly to optimize clubs thru fitting. The have an additional benefit for practice sessions and things like gapping they the set or looking at what distances a club with a 1/2 swing, etc goes.  Also a great tool for club testing/comparison. 
 

when looking at personal LMs most tend to want something for gapping their bag or to compare numbers to see if they have improved clubhead speed, ball speed, distance, etc they practice. There is probably a small subset who are trying to chase numbers and that’s rabbit hole that could cause issues.

i think the most wanted was a good test in that it gives a comparison to the pros and cons of each. Saying it’s x amount different than y device while that would be nice to have it’s not necessarily important imo.  To me it’s like a body weight scale someone uses when tracking weight loss/gain. Is the scale of100% accurate compared to another model? Maybe but maybe not. However if you use the same scale everytime then you have consistency in measurement and can track progress. If you start off at x lbs and lose 5lbs in a month does it matter if you were 200 or 203lbs at the start? No because you’ve achieved a loss of 5lbs.

the same applies to a personal lm. If one is trying to work on their game and increase speed/distance they use the lm of choice and can see what their numbers are. After a period of time practicing, taking lessons, training to whatever method they use to improve they can look at the numbers on the monitor and see if they have gone up. If after x time frame there is an increase of 2mph they improved. Doesn’t matter if the starting speed is 100 on y device or 102 on a device. The gain was there.

i think using the most wanted to find the device that fits 1) budget 2) the reason for using the device. Find the best that meets the criteria and buy that if in the market

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

i think the most wanted was a good test in that it gives a comparison to the pros and cons of each. Saying it’s x amount different than y device while that would be nice to have it’s not necessarily important imo.  To me it’s like a body weight scale someone uses when tracking weight loss/gain. Is the scale of100% accurate compared to another model? Maybe but maybe not. However if you use the same scale everytime then you have consistency in measurement and can track progress. If you start off at x lbs and lose 5lbs in a month does it matter if you were 200 or 203lbs at the start? No because you’ve achieved a loss of 5lbs.

the same applies to a personal lm. If one is trying to work on their game and increase speed/distance they use the lm of choice and can see what their numbers are. After a period of time practicing, taking lessons, training to whatever method they use to improve they can look at the numbers on the monitor and see if they have gone up. If after x time frame there is an increase of 2mph they improved. Doesn’t matter if the starting speed is 100 on y device or 102 on a device. The gain was there.

I agree with your case that accuracy doesn't need to be the top priority.  However, to track progress, there needs to be some level of precision in the device you are using.  If one of these devices tells me my 75 yd shot is only going 65, but it is always very close to that 10 yds short, I can use this for practicing (Precise, but not accurate).  If it tells me my 75 yd shot is going 75 yds, but that is an average of anything from 65 to 85 yds, then it is relatively useless in my opinion (accurate, but not precise).  I don't see where any of that is discussed in the review, so looking at the actual data to see how these things perform would be helpful.

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4 minutes ago, romeopapazulu said:

I agree with your case that accuracy doesn't need to be the top priority.  However, to track progress, there needs to be some level of precision in the device you are using.  If one of these devices tells me my 75 yd shot is only going 65, but it is always very close to that 10 yds short, I can use this for practicing (Precise, but not accurate).  If it tells me my 75 yd shot is going 75 yds, but that is an average of anything from 65 to 85 yds, then it is relatively useless in my opinion (accurate, but not precise).  I don't see where any of that is discussed in the review, so looking at the actual data to see how these things perform would be helpful.

To an extent yes but consistency in measurement is probably more important. 
 

if the skytrak is 5 yard difference from trackman but you don’t know how accurate trackman is and you haven’t been on trackman or even more so the trackman and skytrak used in the testing then knowing there’s a 5 yard difference doesn’t matter.  All the monitors use an algorithm to figure out the various numbers and there’s been tests done that show discrepancies between trackman and gc2 and gcquad, plus each unit is measuring the ball and flight differently. Plus trackman and gc can be tuned to account for weather and “course conditions”

imo there’s to many variables to account for that would make knowing the difference between each unit worth reporting. A misalignment of the trackman or gcquad could skew numbers as well. 


 

 

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Some general thoughts on use of launch monitors.

As we know they are used for launch characteristics mostly to optimize clubs thru fitting. The have an additional benefit for practice sessions and things like gapping they the set or looking at what distances a club with a 1/2 swing, etc goes.  Also a great tool for club testing/comparison. 
 

when looking at personal LMs most tend to want something for gapping their bag or to compare numbers to see if they have improved clubhead speed, ball speed, distance, etc they practice. There is probably a small subset who are trying to chase numbers and that’s rabbit hole that could cause issues.

i think the most wanted was a good test in that it gives a comparison to the pros and cons of each. Saying it’s x amount different than y device while that would be nice to have it’s not necessarily important imo.  To me it’s like a body weight scale someone uses when tracking weight loss/gain. Is the scale of100% accurate compared to another model? Maybe but maybe not. However if you use the same scale everytime then you have consistency in measurement and can track progress. If you start off at x lbs and lose 5lbs in a month does it matter if you were 200 or 203lbs at the start? No because you’ve achieved a loss of 5lbs.

the same applies to a personal lm. If one is trying to work on their game and increase speed/distance they use the lm of choice and can see what their numbers are. After a period of time practicing, taking lessons, training to whatever method they use to improve they can look at the numbers on the monitor and see if they have gone up. If after x time frame there is an increase of 2mph they improved. Doesn’t matter if the starting speed is 100 on y device or 102 on a device. The gain was there.

i think using the most wanted to find the device that fits 1) budget 2) the reason for using the device. Find the best that meets the criteria and buy that if in the market

You are correct everyone is different in their use or need of an LM. The reason why I would have liked to have seen specific numbers is around my work on SS. I currently have a SC 200 and it would have been nice to know how the SS and ball speed numbers related to the other units. Is my SS really an 84 or is it 90 or worse yet 79? Will it make me run out and buy a different unit? Probably not since I use it to gauge SS improvement. Again not critical but more of a 'nice to know'  data accuracy. 

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3 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

You are correct everyone is different in their use or need of an LM. The reason why I would have liked to have seen specific numbers is around my work on SS. I currently have a SC 200 and it would have been nice to know how the SS and ball speed numbers related to the other units. Is my SS really an 84 or is it 90 or worse yet 79? Will it make me run out and buy a different unit? Probably not since I use it to gauge SS improvement. Again not critical but more of a 'nice to know'  data accuracy. 

I get where you are coming from. If I’m the sc200 your SS is 84, you spend time working on increasing speed thru whatever method and then you checked it again at a later date you are now 87. You picked up 3mph which is anywhere from 6-10ish yards with everything else being equal. Does it matter what your SS actually is? You picked up speed and distance regardless. The key thing is you are using the same device to measure the speed so the results will be consistent from start to end. 
 

if looking to buy another club test it against your current club on the same device for a true comparison. There can be variations from trackman to trackman unit as well as all other devices being tested and what someone has. 

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56 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I get where you are coming from. If I’m the sc200 your SS is 84, you spend time working on increasing speed thru whatever method and then you checked it again at a later date you are now 87. You picked up 3mph which is anywhere from 6-10ish yards with everything else being equal. Does it matter what your SS actually is? You picked up speed and distance regardless. The key thing is you are using the same device to measure the speed so the results will be consistent from start to end. 
 

Yup and that's exactly what I'm using it for. Again it's all relative - but still which I knew how accurate it was. Maybe bragging rights?? Who knows?, Regardless, the most wanted blog won't motivate me to upgrade. . 

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13 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Yup and that's exactly what I'm using it for. Again it's all relative - but still which I knew how accurate it was. Maybe bragging rights?? Who knows?, Regardless, the most wanted blog won't motivate me to upgrade. . 

Yeah outside of “ego” or “bragging rights” what it really is doesn’t matter. Many ams get caught up in what their speed is and LMs bring it back to reality ask @Golfspy_CG2 about that and his recent fittings 😀

also I’ve seen guys with similar swing speed hit the ball different distances because of impact location and/or club delivery which affect ball speed. Ball speed and efficiency is going to have a bigger impact on distance than SS 

unless one is using hmt on gc the accuracy is going to vary. The algorithms use some form of preprogrammed smash factor to determine speed.  Also trackman isn’t going to be as accurate indoors as it will be outdoors, where gc will be as accurate indoors and outdoors which could impact comparison against trackman. Just too many variables imo. 

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Some general thoughts on use of launch monitors.
As we know they are used for launch characteristics mostly to optimize clubs thru fitting. The have an additional benefit for practice sessions and things like gapping they the set or looking at what distances a club with a 1/2 swing, etc goes.  Also a great tool for club testing/comparison. 
 
when looking at personal LMs most tend to want something for gapping their bag or to compare numbers to see if they have improved clubhead speed, ball speed, distance, etc they practice. There is probably a small subset who are trying to chase numbers and that’s rabbit hole that could cause issues.


Intent of use is the biggest evaluation point. I am not looking for spin or launch type numbers. I want to practice 100 and in to dial in my swing. For this I need accurate numbers. If the LM says 70 then it better be 70 on the course not 60 or 85. I want this indoors so I can use my balls to get dialed in. I don’t have a range that will let me put out cones or go retrieve my personal balls.

Reminds me of what I saw at the Local LPGA event this past year. Danielle Kang was going to work on distance wedges and her
Caddie has laid out cones and shot distances to her bag to put them in the right spot. Danielle realized this and made him reshoot to where she was hitting from. Don’t want to practice to accurate distances not just something close.
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28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


Intent of use is the biggest evaluation point. I am not looking for spin or launch type numbers. I want to practice 100 and in to dial in my swing. For this I need accurate numbers. If the LM says 70 then it better be 70 on the course not 60 or 85. I want this indoors so I can use my balls to get dialed in. I don’t have a range that will let me put out cones or go retrieve my personal balls.

Reminds me of what I saw at the Local LPGA event this past year. Danielle Kang was going to work on distance wedges and her
Caddie has laid out cones and shot distances to her bag to put them in the right spot. Danielle realized this and made him reshoot to where she was hitting from. Don’t want to practice to accurate distances not just something close.

 

Agree and the use of additional aids like Danielle is doing is helpful but as you mention can be hard at a range.

as has been discussed in various threads trackman indoor use isn’t as accurate as the outdoor use due to not being able to do full ball flight picture and using an algorithm based on indoor use. 

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On 11/18/2019 at 9:36 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

As we know they are used for launch characteristics mostly to optimize clubs thru fitting. The have an additional benefit for practice sessions and things like gapping they the set or looking at what distances a club with a 1/2 swing, etc goes.  Also a great tool for club testing/comparison. 
 

when looking at personal LMs most tend to want something for gapping their bag or to compare numbers to see if they have improved clubhead speed, ball speed, distance, etc they practice. There is probably a small subset who are trying to chase numbers and that’s rabbit hole that could cause issues.

As people have said, everyone wants something different.  For both me and my daughter, I want path and face to path.  That's pretty much it.  I come from too far inside, she tends to get outside.  We've both had too much access to Trackman; we're spoiled frankly.  Cry me a river, I know.  It's nice that access is free for her and cheap for me.  Convenience would be nice, but driving 30 minutes to get downtown won't kill me.  

For all of you that belong to a private club, I'd lobby to take some lightly used space in the clubhouse, set up a couple of bays, and buy some high-quality LMs.  A few clubs around here have done this.  It's also a real boon to the teaching pros there that can teach throughout the winter.

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On 11/19/2019 at 10:05 AM, cnosil said:

 


Intent of use is the biggest evaluation point. I am not looking for spin or launch type numbers. I want to practice 100 and in to dial in my swing. For this I need accurate numbers. If the LM says 70 then it better be 70 on the course not 60 or 85. I want this indoors so I can use my balls to get dialed in. I don’t have a range that will let me put out cones or go retrieve my personal balls.

Reminds me of what I saw at the Local LPGA event this past year. Danielle Kang was going to work on distance wedges and her
Caddie has laid out cones and shot distances to her bag to put them in the right spot. Danielle realized this and made him reshoot to where she was hitting from. Don’t want to practice to accurate distances not just something close.

I agree with this. But to determine whether any of the sub-$500 LM's would be any use we need to know how accurate/inaccurate they are. Would bet they aren't 10-15 yds off on a 100 yd shot. But if they were, then they definitely aren't useful. If they were 2.5yds off? Plenty good enough for lots of purposes. 5 yds off? Maybe not for dialing in wedges, but for understanding the distances of your other clubs.

Looking at it from the other direction, what is the good reason for NOT sharing the data on how accurate they are and what the differences in their accuracy is? C'mon MyGolfSpy, give up the goods!

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And then there’s fun stuff like this...

At the local First Tee facility where I purchased a 2019-2020 season pass. I’m not sure about the monitors they use but it’s an overhead camera like system?

Have a look at the spin number on the 5th row down, on the far right. Negative 15k spin, nice!

IMG_0791_Original.JPG

This felt like a well struck shot, a 5h. Not perfect but far from terrible.

Btw, from left to right: total distance, total carry, club speed, ball speed, backspin.

And yes I dropped down to a short iron after that.



Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

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