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Man you guys have way more handicap difficulties than I have ever experienced and I thought I had been around - Connecticut, New York, Indiana, Wisconsin and now Florida and very little of that time at private clubs.  There has been the occasional outlying clear sand bagger who gets expelled but its always been the guy playing the best golf wins and that normal gets spread out over time (just as it should.)  Under those circumstances handicaps will sort things out.

Of course there are going to be examples of 70 year olds who driving it past 40 year olds the exception does not prove the rule.  I'm 63 and not particularly long and yet there are 20 something whom I out drive.  That's hardly the entire game.

My suggestion to the Op is that his group consult the State Golf Association which will have guidelines for its championship play and then adjust accordingly.  Generally speaking the divisions for Amateurs differ from touring pros (for obvious reasons.)  It's usually Senior 55-64, Super Senior 65 and up - You may wish to create an additional group of your own from 75 to 100 or something like that depending on the tee configuration at your course.

 

Regardless you will find that it gets tougher as your reach the upper limits of each age bracket because you are unable to hit the ball as far or as consistently as you could at the lower end.  It really doesn't matter whom I'm longer than right now - I'm not longer than or as consistent as the 55 year old RevKev and for those reasons I can't compete with him - my handicap reflects that however so I could compete with him so long as both of us used our handicaps.  Since I'm less consistent he might accuse me (or I myself) of being a sandbagger when I throw in a nice 71 or 72 and get 7 strokes - he will have forgotten the 84's that I strong together for the two months prior and all the money he took from me there in with his 74's and 75's when he makes that accusation. 

 

I hope this helps - all of us - to put things in perspective rather than trying to prove rules and norms by exceptions.  Either that or we should run for congress - they make a living out of it. 🙂

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Currently testing Edison wedges to replace SCORS that are wearing out. Also auditions for the 14th spot in the bag.  Current possibilities are a Ping 26 degree hybrid - duplicates the 9 wood or 5 iron but would be used almost exclusively for chipping or Tour Exotics 3 wood simply because you can carry 14 clubs and I might occasionally hit it in certain unusual wind conditions once every four or five rounds. 

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As Cnosil said.  Whatever he limit you set for the white/gold break someone is going to be feel disadvantaged.  I paly in an annual tournament that takes a unique approach and I have not heard of

Back to the subject at hand and the main thing being distance. At 62 I play the senior tees and there are older seniors that hit it past me. My buddy we call "Checkers" is 70 and blows it past me but

I'll be 69 on the 29th of this month and have had three knee surgeries/replacement, broke hip, and pinched nerves in my back.  I joined my old club (Lane Creek) and the bunch I'm playing with on Wedne

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Where in Connecticut does he live?  🤨

Beacon Falls, he had a house built in a Senior Community.


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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Titleist TSi2, Kuro Kage 50 gr R2

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous Vista Pro R2

Irons; Ping G710 6-GW, Recoil 460 R2

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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Man you guys have way more handicap difficulties than I have ever experienced and I thought I had been around - Connecticut, New York, Indiana, Wisconsin and now Florida and very little of that time at private clubs.  There has been the occasional outlying clear sand bagger who gets expelled but its always been the guy playing the best golf wins and that normal gets spread out over time (just as it should.)  Under those circumstances handicaps will sort things out.
Of course there are going to be examples of 70 year olds who driving it past 40 year olds the exception does not prove the rule.  I'm 63 and not particularly long and yet there are 20 something whom I out drive.  That's hardly the entire game.
My suggestion to the Op is that his group consult the State Golf Association which will have guidelines for its championship play and then adjust accordingly.  Generally speaking the divisions for Amateurs differ from touring pros (for obvious reasons.)  It's usually Senior 55-64, Super Senior 65 and up - You may wish to create an additional group of your own from 75 to 100 or something like that depending on the tee configuration at your course.
 
Regardless you will find that it gets tougher as your reach the upper limits of each age bracket because you are unable to hit the ball as far or as consistently as you could at the lower end.  It really doesn't matter whom I'm longer than right now - I'm not longer than or as consistent as the 55 year old RevKev and for those reasons I can't compete with him - my handicap reflects that however so I could compete with him so long as both of us used our handicaps.  Since I'm less consistent he might accuse me (or I myself) of being a sandbagger when I throw in a nice 71 or 72 and get 7 strokes - he will have forgotten the 84's that I strong together for the two months prior and all the money he took from me there in with his 74's and 75's when he makes that accusation. 
 
I hope this helps - all of us - to put things in perspective rather than trying to prove rules and norms by exceptions.  Either that or we should run for congress - they make a living out of it.

True That!


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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Titleist TSi2, Kuro Kage 50 gr R2

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous Vista Pro R2

Irons; Ping G710 6-GW, Recoil 460 R2

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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Man you guys have way more handicap difficulties than I have ever experienced and I thought I had been around - Connecticut, New York, Indiana, Wisconsin and now Florida and very little of that time at private clubs.  There has been the occasional outlying clear sand bagger who gets expelled but its always been the guy playing the best golf wins and that normal gets spread out over time (just as it should.)  Under those circumstances handicaps will sort things out.
Of course there are going to be examples of 70 year olds who driving it past 40 year olds the exception does not prove the rule.  I'm 63 and not particularly long and yet there are 20 something whom I out drive.  That's hardly the entire game.
My suggestion to the Op is that his group consult the State Golf Association which will have guidelines for its championship play and then adjust accordingly.  Generally speaking the divisions for Amateurs differ from touring pros (for obvious reasons.)  It's usually Senior 55-64, Super Senior 65 and up - You may wish to create an additional group of your own from 75 to 100 or something like that depending on the tee configuration at your course.
 
Regardless you will find that it gets tougher as your reach the upper limits of each age bracket because you are unable to hit the ball as far or as consistently as you could at the lower end.  It really doesn't matter whom I'm longer than right now - I'm not longer than or as consistent as the 55 year old RevKev and for those reasons I can't compete with him - my handicap reflects that however so I could compete with him so long as both of us used our handicaps.  Since I'm less consistent he might accuse me (or I myself) of being a sandbagger when I throw in a nice 71 or 72 and get 7 strokes - he will have forgotten the 84's that I strong together for the two months prior and all the money he took from me there in with his 74's and 75's when he makes that accusation. 
 
I hope this helps - all of us - to put things in perspective rather than trying to prove rules and norms by exceptions.  Either that or we should run for congress - they make a living out of it.

True That!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Titleist TSi2, Kuro Kage 50 gr R2

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous Vista Pro R2

Irons; Ping G710 6-GW, Recoil 460 R2

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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18 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I'm never going to move up a tee because "I'm not going to let the old man in". 🙂  Also because it would be similar to my experience at fireman training a couple years ago (I'm a volunteer fireman).  It's a drill on coming down a ladder from a two story window.

The instructor has a 20 something blonde firewoman doing the demonstration several times while we watched (more like grimaced and silently call for mommy).  Then he says, "ok, who wants to go first... and, oh btw, we do have a safety harness available if desired".  Yea, right, like any of us are going to opt for the harness and become the talk at the evening BBQ. 😆  Just like moving up a tee, some decisions are fraught with repercussions.

ROTFLMAO---- Firefighter's Ego-----  I can safely comment because I was a Volunteer firefighter on and off for some 23 years. Actually the last time I did that drill was at age 42 some 20 years ago and I was 50 lbs lighter. Also for kicks and giggles when I was much younger I could do the under hand swing and swing to the underside of the ladder in full gear. When I moved to SC and went on a new department the training Captain blew a fuse when I pulled that stunt. I have actually went all the way down the ladder head first. OHHH man I was so much lighter and agile in those days

Edited by BIG STU
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Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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Back to the subject at hand and the main thing being distance. At 62 I play the senior tees and there are older seniors that hit it past me. My buddy we call "Checkers" is 70 and blows it past me but he can not beat me. In my older age I do something I never did when I was younger keeping it in the short grass. This one bud of mine is 74 or 75 now and plays from the red tees. He hits the ugliest Quail high hook drive you ever seen but it rolls forever and rolls out about 250. Love being on his team in a mixed scramble event because they usually have the red tees up. Played in a event with him one time and we killed them. He was leaving another running buddy of mine and me wedges and like 9 irons into par 4s all day and mid irons into Par 5s.  John Smalls thinks I am a short iron player this guy is better than me.  That day we had a $1 side bet going between him and me on closest to the pin. I think we wore that dollar bill out. Man that was one fun day not because our team won but it was fun-- It was a big Catholic church event and was well marshaled and we had lots of side bets going on among the marshals etc.  My bud and I donated back our prizes to the event because technically and morally we could not accept them due to both of us being pros---- But the most hell that was being raised was because of the bud hitting the ball off the red tees so far. With his game that is about all he can do hit a driver he shoots around 100 otherwise can not hit or putt a lick---- But my point is some where someone is going to complain because they are being out driven. Personally me I know where I drive it and play the rest of my game accordingly. I do still play from the mid tees on occasion if playing with others may have to hit 2 clubs more to a green but meh just academic for me

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Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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Simply put, I do not play many events. I do golf 2-3 times per week.

I play for fun and the challenge of just being that much better than last time.  As a result, I have actually played much more consistent golf in the past few years.

I have gone to senior tees to compensate for my skills and body.

 

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In My BELDIN Green Bay Packer 1999 Super Bowl Champions Bag  :  :ping: G410 Plus, Alta Red CB 55 SR Flex, GX-7 14º(acting as a 3 wood),  :ping:   G400 4H, 5H. Sr Flex,   :ping:  G400 6i Sr Flex, G-Max 7i. 9i Sr Flex , Glide 2.0  Wedges graphite SR Shafts (50º, 56º, 60º),  :ping: Putter: Cadence Mid-TR 350g :bridgestone: e12 for the items I try to hit on purposematte red, so I can see them. :footjoy: on my feet and hands, US Embassy-Singapore hat on my head (with PACKERS, Brewers or UW-Badgers hats as options).

 

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3 hours ago, DrMJG said:

Simply put, I do not play many events. I do golf 2-3 times per week.

I play for fun and the challenge of just being that much better than last time.  As a result, I have actually played much more consistent golf in the past few years.

I have gone to senior tees to compensate for my skills and body.

 

Kinda off topic how about posting a pic of the Belding Bag----- I like Belding bags in general

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, BIG STU said:

Kinda off topic how about posting a pic of the Belding Bag----- I like Belding bags in general

IMG_0156.JPG.3a21fb929cfbf5c4c705cceb169abb52.JPGIMG_0160.jpg.4f9250c2c3dbc2af7083ea87e1d67d42.jpg

 

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In My BELDIN Green Bay Packer 1999 Super Bowl Champions Bag  :  :ping: G410 Plus, Alta Red CB 55 SR Flex, GX-7 14º(acting as a 3 wood),  :ping:   G400 4H, 5H. Sr Flex,   :ping:  G400 6i Sr Flex, G-Max 7i. 9i Sr Flex , Glide 2.0  Wedges graphite SR Shafts (50º, 56º, 60º),  :ping: Putter: Cadence Mid-TR 350g :bridgestone: e12 for the items I try to hit on purposematte red, so I can see them. :footjoy: on my feet and hands, US Embassy-Singapore hat on my head (with PACKERS, Brewers or UW-Badgers hats as options).

 

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5 hours ago, DrMJG said:

IMG_0156.JPG.3a21fb929cfbf5c4c705cceb169abb52.JPGIMG_0160.jpg.4f9250c2c3dbc2af7083ea87e1d67d42.jpg

 

Thanks man---- That is a nice bag---- Belding makes some good stuff--- And for some reason the head covers you have set that bag off nice--- Note did see a similar one Green Bay Packers too for sell on E-Bay last night

Driver --- Honma G1-X Stock R Flex----  3W Callaway Steelhead UST Pro Force Gold 65 stiff--- 2 iron 1980 Macgregor VIP Nike R flex-------- Irons 3 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex shafts--- SW Cleveland 588 Sensicore S-400-- Putter Rusty Santa Fe Bulls Eye Fluted shaft-- Bag Old School Hoofer I had in the stash--- Goes along with my raggety persona

 

 

 

 

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I play in a 18 hole senior golf league.  Players under 50 are allowed to participate do to the lack of senior golfers.   The league rules state that 70 and under play from the white tees, and over play from the gold.  Many golfers fall in the 62 to 70 range.  This group feels they are being penalized.  They feel they can't compete with the younger long ball hitters.  Super seniors at 80 can play from the reds.  My thoughts are that with my handicap at 18, my chances are slim that I can consistently beat a single digit to 12 handicap golfer.  I am going to propose at are preliminary golf meeting this spring, 62 and older hit from the senior tees, and under 62 hit from the whites.  Of course, super seniors hit from the red. Some of my friends feel we should follow the PGA senior tour, with everybody over fifty hit from the same tee.  Welcome feedback.


We play Seniors at 65 or over.....


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Cobra F8(10.5*) w/Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue Regular; 3-4W(14.5*) & 5-6W(17.0*)w/Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue Regular; Tour Edge CBX119 22* Hybrid; Ben Hogan PTx 5-PW w/Recoil 460 graphite shafts; Ben Hogan TKt Gw(49*) SW(53*) LW(57*) all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts. Lamkin grips with Arccoss tracking sensors. Putter: Tommy Armour Impact #3 33”. Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat/Silver).
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Driver: Tour Edge Exotics EXS w/Mitsubishi ck Blue regular shaft BACKUP DRIVER: Cobra F8 w/Mitsubishi ck Blue regular shaft  Fairways:  Cobra King F8 3W(14.5*) & 5W(18.5*) w/Mitsubishi ck Blue regular shaft Hybrids: Tour Edge CBX 119 4H(22*)  with Project X Evenflo regular shaft Irons: Wilson Staff D7 5 - PW w/Recoil 460 regular shafts Wedges: Wilson D7 GW(50*) & SW(54*) w/Recoil 460 regular shafts; Cleveland RTX Zipcore(58*) w/True Temper Spinner Wedge steel shaft  Putter: 33" Slotline SSi 693 mid mallet Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat Blue).

 

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We play Seniors at 65 or over.....


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Cobra F8(10.5*) w/Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue Regular; 3-4W(14.5*) & 5-6W(17.0*)w/Mitsubishi Tensei CK Blue Regular; Tour Edge CBX119 22* Hybrid; Ben Hogan PTx 5-PW w/Recoil 460 graphite shafts; Ben Hogan TKt Gw(49*) SW(53*) LW(57*) all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts. Lamkin grips with Arccoss tracking sensors. Putter: Tommy Armour Impact #3 33”. Bag: Cobra Ultralite Cart Bag(Peacoat/Silver).

Also 65 and older Sr, 70 is Super Sr.


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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Titleist TSi2, Kuro Kage 50 gr R2

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous Vista Pro R2

Irons; Ping G710 6-GW, Recoil 460 R2

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/21/2019 at 2:59 PM, tony@CIC said:

However, one advantage of the guys playing forward tees is that on several holes at our Club, it takes water or other penalty areas out of play.

I would think that course ratings should take into account the fact that those penalty areas are out of play from those tees.  But playing mixed tees can be a little fraught.  My dad worked for ages with his senior group to get them to adjust handicaps based on course rating differences, per the USGA guidelines:  https://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=6

 

On 11/22/2019 at 8:18 AM, ole gray said:

I currently  play the whites with a 58 year old who hits a long ball however there are four long par four holes that require I hit a hybrid on approach shots. They told me to move up with the old guys and I am considering mix tees.  Playing the whites on everything except those long par fours.

In this day and age, we really ought to be able to rate each hole individually from each tee to come up with a course rating from any combination of tees.  There are far more useless applications of technology these days.  But until then, you can create your own mixed tees and turn in scores with the following:  https://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=14.  My older daughter used to do this because some courses she'd play had forward tees that were way too short on some holes, but middle tees that were far too long on others, so she'd pick tees to make up a fun golf course.

 

On 11/25/2019 at 9:39 AM, TheWahoo said:

Honest handicaps applied to an effective or adequate system should produce results where tee position  materially do not or should not matter.   Unfortunately, personally, that does not seem to be the case

See above for making adjustments.  And welcome back, Wahoo, even if it's just a guest appearance.

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3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
4i - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )

 

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This thread got me thinking about "age groups/flights" in sports.  When you're very young, being old is advantage.  But when you're old, not so much 🙂.  

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  • 1 year later...
On 11/21/2019 at 11:54 AM, pops said:

I play in a 18 hole senior golf league.  Players under 50 are allowed to participate do to the lack of senior golfers.   The league rules state that 70 and under play from the white tees, and over play from the gold.  Many golfers fall in the 62 to 70 range.  This group feels they are being penalized.  They feel they can't compete with the younger long ball hitters.  Super seniors at 80 can play from the reds.  My thoughts are that with my handicap at 18, my chances are slim that I can consistently beat a single digit to 12 handicap golfer.  I am going to propose at are preliminary golf meeting this spring, 62 and older hit from the senior tees, and under 62 hit from the whites.  Of course, super seniors hit from the red. Some of my friends feel we should follow the PGA senior tour, with everybody over fifty hit from the same tee.  Welcome feedback.

 

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I believe a ONE HUNDRED RULE is a good solution to the "problem" of age x ability. Quite simply, if your age plus your handicap equals 100 or more, you play from the ladies tee. A 64 year old off 36 and an 80 year old off 20 play off the ladies tee. If you're 75 and play off 5, if you're 95 and play off 4, forget it- you don't need help

 

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The fairest system I've seen used is the AGE + Handicap arrangement, where some number is selected and if age plus handicap reach that point, they can move forward.  Other than that, the handicap system (assuming you don't have sandbaggers (aka cheaters)), should take care of the variances in skill and distance.  If your course is correctly rated and you use the GHIN handicap for the tees being played, adjustments should resolve the differences of tees.

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Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX-2 52*, 56*, 60* wedges.  Stock shafts.

Putter: :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7S

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I have played in tournaments for many years and have found that the same group will always win. Sorry, there is so way around it. Adjust to make it a little bit fairer but you will find some people are just better and/or work on their handicap and you just have to accept that. Play for the fun of it.

 

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 It's interesting how 'handicaps' work in different sports or activities. I use to race sailboats for many years and the 'handicap' or in our terminology, PHRF is solely based on the boat's performance rating vs. skill of the skipper and crew. Can you imagine how that would would in golf😱. I lobbied the PHRF committee many times to make adjustments based on the skippers abilities - since as in amateur golf the same people would win most of the time.  

Sorry for the hijack.

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28 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

 It's interesting how 'handicaps' work in different sports or activities. I use to race sailboats for many years and the 'handicap' or in our terminology, PHRF is solely based on the boat's performance rating vs. skill of the skipper and crew. Can you imagine how that would would in golf😱. I lobbied the PHRF committee many times to make adjustments based on the skippers abilities - since as in amateur golf the same people would win most of the time.  

Sorry for the hijack.

+1. I raced sailboats for 25 years as well, to the exclusion of golf for 15 years, and I couldn't agree more. There were always some gift ratings in PHRF, and some impossible ratings that caused people to sell/trade boats. Other handicap systems all had their flaws too, such that one-design racing (everyone in exactly the same make/model boat no mods allowed) has increased in popularity. Interestingly yacht clubs are suffering from the same afflictions as (golf) country clubs, for largely the same reasons.

Now I leisure sail, and resumed golf about 4-5 years ago - WAY, WAY CHEAPER!

Sorry for the hijack.

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