Range Balls vs your ball ?

[LeftyHawk]

As the season here in Michigan draws to a close I got to thinking about working on my ball striking at an indoor range using my launch monitor to get some idea of distances.

I know that most all range Balls are not the best and have been hit like a bigillion times. So I was thinking, is hitting range balls really productive? I mean if you're not getting accurate results on a launch monitor because of the range balls how can you expect to improve on the course?

My thinking is also with that in mind wouldn't it be wiser to hit your ball on a Sim? But that too has its drawbacks, if you're one of those who take a divot on mid/short irons I don't see has a Sim would help.

So for you low handicappers living in the north, what do you do to work on your game thru the winter?

Chris

[cnosil]

? But that too has its drawbacks, if you're one of those who take a divot on mid/short irons I don't see has a Sim would help.

 

Divot occurs after the ball so you hit the ball first. If the launch monitor displays strike location you can tell if you hit it fat; spin will also give some indication of strike location it just requires a good understanding of you numbers.

 

How you practice is dependent on what you want to accomplish.

For example if you are working on strike location range balls are fine.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

Divot occurs after the ball so you hit the ball first. If the launch monitor displays strike location you can tell if you hit it fat; spin will also give some indication of strike location it just requires a good understanding of you numbers.

 

How you practice is dependent on what you want to accomplish.

For example if you are working on strike location range balls are fine.

+1 on the bolded. Distance isn’t going to be accurate but one can get a good feel for how. A good strike vs bad one flies. To me it’s also relatively easy to see when a ball is just bad by the flight so i ignore the results of that shot.

when I’m at the range im more focused on contact and swing than distance. I save the distance for the course and I can adjust relatively quickly if I’m under or over clubbing 

[Kenny B]

I agree with @RickyBobby_PR.  I do not focus on distance when on the range, only the quality of my strike.  I don't spend much time on the range unless I am working on a swing change or issue.  When I can consistently make a good strike, I determine how far that strike goes when I practice on the course.  The best practice is on the course.

So for those up in colder climates (we have many of those days, but we can play most of the winter), spend time on the range or indoor bays working on quality of strike and you can judge the distance on the course when it warms up.

[tony@CIC]

Another +1 on the previous comments. I use both a Golfzon sim and outside (heated) range. I work on 2 things my swing (strike location and dispersion ) along with swing speed. For the latter I take my SC200 to the outside range.


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[russtopherb]

I work on my game in the winter by exercising. I don't touch my clubs for the most part. I'll make some indoor swings and work on positions in front of a mirror now and again, but that's the extent of it. Winter is for stretching, core exercises, etc. 

When I *do* go to an indoor sim, which isn't that often because both next to me closed, I do use my own balls however. 

[edingc]

As a fellow Michigander, the heated range, a can of Dr. Scholl's Odor-X foot powder spray, my cell phone camera, tripod and Swing Caddie SC200 are all part of my off-season practice repertoire.

The range I frequent most often uses some ancient Nike range rocks, most of which have really worn dimples and don't carry particularly far. So my focus is on strike location (foot powder for this), swing changes (camera/tripod) and swing speed (SC200). 

My instructor has me changing my grip with the goal of getting my path more in to out. For the next few weeks, I'm basically going to the range hoping to see draws/hooks. So then I'm focused on ball flight as well. 

[Mr. 82]

Honestly it has nothing to do with the type of ball you are hitting, but more about hitting off of mats on a driving range; indoor or outside is irrelevant.

I used to have a membership at a local club that had mats on the driving range, but I had unlimited range ball privileges with this membership.  So I'd just get at least 2 dozen large buckets every day after work and bang balls.  After a couple of weeks I started to noticed that my pecs were getting really sore, bordering on extremely painful.  So I stopped hitting range balls off of the mats and the pain went away.

Now I will say that I am a MAJOR digger (my brother calls me Pig Divot) so my swing is tuned in to take a lot of earth with me when I hit the ball.  So hitting down on mats with concrete under them is no doubt an issue in this regard, but with the exception of a quick warm up on a course that only has mats, I will not do any work off of mats at all, mostly because it's hazardous to my health.

It's also why getting fitted for clubs indoors off of mats is not something I would consider in the future.  I mean, why fit yourself with clubs that you will only hit off of real grass, on an artificial surface that doesn't replicate course conditions exactly?

Sure, I totally get it.  If you are snowed in and playing golf outside is not an option, I would absolutely try and maintain something, somewhere, somehow.  If anything, I could hit some drivers or fairway clubs off of mats, because I don't take divots with those shots.  But there's a reason I live in Florida (sorry).

[ncwoz]

1 hour ago, GSwag said:

Honestly it has nothing to do with the type of ball you are hitting, but more about hitting off of mats on a driving range; indoor or outside is irrelevant.

I used to have a membership at a local club that had mats on the driving range, but I had unlimited range ball privileges with this membership.  So I'd just get at least 2 dozen large buckets every day after work and bang balls.  After a couple of weeks I started to noticed that my pecs were getting really sore, bordering on extremely painful.  So I stopped hitting range balls off of the mats and the pain went away.

Now I will say that I am a MAJOR digger (my brother calls me Pig Divot) so my swing is tuned in to take a lot of earth with me when I hit the ball.  So hitting down on mats with concrete under them is no doubt an issue in this regard, but with the exception of a quick warm up on a course that only has mats, I will not do any work off of mats at all, mostly because it's hazardous to my health.

It's also why getting fitted for clubs indoors off of mats is not something I would consider in the future.  I mean, why fit yourself with clubs that you will only hit off of real grass, on an artificial surface that doesn't replicate course conditions exactly?

Sure, I totally get it.  If you are snowed in and playing golf outside is not an option, I would absolutely try and maintain something, somewhere, somehow.  If anything, I could hit some drivers or fairway clubs off of mats, because I don't take divots with those shots.  But there's a reason I live in Florida (sorry).

I have heard multiple people say the more of a digger you are, the harder mats are on your arms, wrists, etc. Although, as @cnosil said, you should be hitting ball first then mat/turf. In which case, a fitting on turf seems like it'd be close enough to get a quality fitting, assuming you don't have to alter your swing to avoid pain

[cnosil]

I have heard multiple people say the more of a digger you are, the harder mats are on your arms, wrists, etc. Although, as [mention=15174]cnosil[/mention] said, you should be hitting ball first then mat/turf. In which case, a fitting on turf seems like it'd be close enough to get a quality fitting, assuming you don't have to alter your swing to avoid pain

Some people just don’t trust fittings on mats. The outdoor results are what matter so people lean toward that for fitting. Outdoors is ideal, but you should be able to get Good results indoors.

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

Some people just don’t trust fittings on mats. The outdoor results are what matter so people lean toward that for fitting. Outdoors is ideal, but you should be able to get Good results indoors.

 

I don’t get the dislike for fitting off mats. It provides a consistent and clean lie every time and a clean club face. I’ve seen outdoor grass fittings where the club doesn’t get cleaned after each shot and of course that’s going to affect numbers and results.

the advantage to outdoor fittings regardless of what one is hitting off if is to see the ball flight. Indoor fittings imo are fine and I’ve don’e them with good success. One just needs to weigh their options and preferences but mat or grass is t going to provide a significant difference in numbers 

[edingc]

22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 

Some people just don’t trust fittings on mats. The outdoor results are what matter so people lean toward that for fitting. Outdoors is ideal, but you should be able to get Good results indoors.

 

Getting fit with the actual ball you play, or at least the same type of ball, is far more important IMO than the indoor/outdoor argument. 

Unfortunately, the shop I go to for the range uses the same Nike range balls for fitting because you hit from indoors out onto the range. I would never, ever trust those numbers. The other shop I use for fitting is fully indoors and has a wide selection of balls to get fit with, or you can bring your own.

[cnosil]

but mat or grass is t going to provide a significant difference in numbers 

Kinda disagree with this statement except for well struck shots. During some short game lessons I recently took when I hit the ball fat on the mat the ball strike was higher on the face than a well struck shot and had significantly lower spin. Additionally I got decent results from the mat but when I moved to grass the fat shots went nowhere.

[Mr. 82]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t get the dislike for fitting off mats. It provides a consistent and clean lie every time and a clean club face. I’ve seen outdoor grass fittings where the club doesn’t get cleaned after each shot and of course that’s going to affect numbers and results.

the advantage to outdoor fittings regardless of what one is hitting off if is to see the ball flight. Indoor fittings imo are fine and I’ve don’e them with good success. One just needs to weigh their options and preferences but mat or grass is t going to provide a significant difference in numbers 

The reaction of the club hitting a much harder surface, i.e. the mat, versus hitting turf makes it much harder for me to gauge how a club feels when making contact with the ball.  I am a total feel player, and having the mat interact with the shot completely voids my feel on shots.  As an example, and because I am so limited here in Tallahassee with regards to club fittings, etc, when I went to Edwin Watts to get fit for my current set of irons, I honestly couldn't tell the difference between 4 or 5 different types of irons/shafts, etc when I was testing them on the monitor there.  As a result of this, I opted for stiff flex shafts in my irons, which it turns out I cannot hit with any consistency or solid impact of any kind.  Only as a result of contacting PING was I able to swap out my shafts for regular flex and feel satisfied with what I currently have in my bag.  Had I done my fitting outdoors on grass I would have known something was wrong with the clubs with stiff shafts in them immediately.

Feel at impact and interaction with turf cannot be overrated when hitting irons.  Mats are basically worthless to me in that regard.  Now sure, if I am warming up, and need to get my swing going, sure, pound away.  But I know once I hit the course I'll have to correct my iron swing as the round goes, compared to warming up on mats.  Maybe it's just me, but the feeling on mats is like night and day compared to grass/turf.

[revkev]

Back at the OP I used to live up North.  I would frequent indoor ranges as much as possible in order to swing the club.  I didn't really care so much about distances just swinging the club and striking the ball as best as I could and some core strength training - that's what my winter consisted of.

I would suggest that this is probably what's best for most of us - that or move to Florida, we have plenty of room for more folks here.

[LeftyHawk]

19 minutes ago, revkev said:

would suggest that this is probably what's best for most of us - that or move to Florida, we have plenty of room for more folks here.

revkev. I used to live in Florida, worked at Disney for quite a few years. My wife will not consider Florida, for her it's not an option.  Arizona however is looking pretty good.....

[RickyBobby_PR]

5 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

Kinda disagree with this statement except for well struck shots. During some short game lessons I recently took when I hit the ball fat on the mat the ball strike was higher on the face than a well struck shot and had significantly lower spin. Additionally I got decent results from the mat but when I moved to grass the fat shots went nowhere.

 

A good fitter is going to eliminate those shots regardless of mat or grass. Off the grass the chunk of grass is going to be a good indication of a fat shot and the sound on mats will be the indication and if there’s good communication between fitter and golfer they will check with each other to confirm if it was fat or even thin.

4 hours ago, GSwag said:

The reaction of the club hitting a much harder surface, i.e. the mat, versus hitting turf makes it much harder for me to gauge how a club feels when making contact with the ball.  I am a total feel player, and having the mat interact with the shot completely voids my feel on shots.  As an example, and because I am so limited here in Tallahassee with regards to club fittings, etc, when I went to Edwin Watts to get fit for my current set of irons, I honestly couldn't tell the difference between 4 or 5 different types of irons/shafts, etc when I was testing them on the monitor there.  As a result of this, I opted for stiff flex shafts in my irons, which it turns out I cannot hit with any consistency or solid impact of any kind.  Only as a result of contacting PING was I able to swap out my shafts for regular flex and feel satisfied with what I currently have in my bag.  Had I done my fitting outdoors on grass I would have known something was wrong with the clubs with stiff shafts in them immediately.

Feel at impact and interaction with turf cannot be overrated when hitting irons.  Mats are basically worthless to me in that regard.  Now sure, if I am warming up, and need to get my swing going, sure, pound away.  But I know once I hit the course I'll have to correct my iron swing as the round goes, compared to warming up on mats.  Maybe it's just me, but the feeling on mats is like night and day compared to grass/turf.

While a digger will probably have different experience of mats vs grass one should still making contact with ball first and the feel of ball on the face as well as sound imo wouldn’t matter, other than how harsh they are after hitting the ground.  The turf interaction is where the difference would be.  Another aspect of feel in the shaft/head combo comes in the transition and would be as much if not more than contact. Not everyone can feel things in the swing but in my experience the feeling of the club and whether I have to work harder to swing them or back off happens long before contact.

 

[HardcoreLooper]

On 11/26/2019 at 11:22 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

I don’t get the dislike for fitting off mats. It provides a consistent and clean lie every time and a clean club face. I’ve seen outdoor grass fittings where the club doesn’t get cleaned after each shot and of course that’s going to affect numbers and results.

One of the better fittings I've seen was the one my daughter had the downtown Richmond First Tee location.  Most of the work was done inside on the Trackman (with her Chromesofts), but they also spent a little while outside with range balls after the fitter had her pretty well dialed in.

 

On 11/26/2019 at 11:48 AM, cnosil said:

During some short game lessons I recently took when I hit the ball fat on the mat the ball strike was higher on the face than a well struck shot and had significantly lower spin. Additionally I got decent results from the mat but when I moved to grass the fat shots went nowhere.

@cnosil - Does MGS use Real Feel mats for Most Wanted testing?  And do they really respond properly to fat shots?  I agree, fat shots turn into serviceable drop kicks when you hit off mats, but they're useless on the golf course.  Would be nice to have mats that react better to fat shots.

 

On 11/26/2019 at 1:52 PM, revkev said:

I didn't really care so much about distances just swinging the club and striking the ball as best as I could and some core strength training - that's what my winter consisted of.

I generally avoid mats like the plague.  As long as we don't have snow on the ground here in central VA, we can usually play, so I'll go play nine instead of practicing.  But if I'm stuck on mats or on the Trackman, I can work on swing path and face-to-path as well as strike location.  I don't worry about distance, but you usually get a decent approximation of ball flight.