Hero World Challenge 2019

[FrogginBullfish]

All I have to say about the Reed incident is that, despite his past transgressions, he should have been given the benefit of the doubt, especially with the lack of evidence available to review.

There was only one camera angle to look at, and it provided no definitive proof that he was actually improving his lie. The video certainly didn't "look good" but there really wasn't enough evidence from just that camera angle to definitively state that he actually improved his lie in any way. His explanation for his actions is certainly a plausible explanation, at least in my opinion.

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[TR1PTIK]

I just finished watching the clip again and here’s what I see... Reed grounds his club directly behind the ball in the sand, and takes the club back just as he would if he were taking the shot. He re-routes his club on the way down to complete the practice swing well inside of where the ball is. The takeaway is part of the stroke and the lip of the sand clearly impeded his ability to take the club back in a normal fashion. Therefore the removal of sand was an improvement of his lie. Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

On a mildly separate note: the clip I found on YouTube showed him stepping a few feet away from the ball and taking a legitimate practice swing - complete with a splash of sand. Do the new rules actually allow this???

 

[Kenny B]

35 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I just finished watching the clip again and here’s what I see... Reed grounds his club directly behind the ball in the sand, and takes the club back just as he would if he were taking the shot. He re-routes his club on the way down to complete the practice swing well inside of where the ball is. The takeaway is part of the stroke and the lip of the sand clearly impeded his ability to take the club back in a normal fashion. Therefore the removal of sand was an improvement of his lie. Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

On a mildly separate note: the clip I found on YouTube showed him stepping a few feet away from the ball and taking a legitimate practice swing - complete with a splash of sand. Do the new rules actually allow this???

 

Very common in Florida are waste areas or waste bunkers  which are not prepared and maintained as bunkers that are considered a hazard.  The area Reed is in is a waste area.  It is treated the same as any other general area of the course and practice swings are allowed, just like on grass.  

Just like anywhere else, you can't improve your lie.

[TR1PTIK]

17 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Very common in Florida are waste areas or waste bunkers  which are not prepared and maintained as bunkers that are considered a hazard.  The area Reed is in is a waste area.  It is treated the same as any other general area of the course and practice swings are allowed, just like on grass.  

Just like anywhere else, you can't improve your lie.

Gotcha. I thought that’s what it was, but wanted to make sure.

[downlowkey]

For those still struggling to accept the legitimacy of PR’s penalty assessment - I suggest you take a step back from his “lie” - pun intended.

Slugger White (PGA Tour Rules Official) correctly framed this situation under 8-1a (4), as a matter re: line of play. The backswing is included in a player’s line of play. By grounding his club within the depression and then making a backswing(s), he altered his line of play (sub. conditions affecting stroke).

For the same reason you may not remove a bush growing in front of your ball, you may not knock down a pile of sand behind it. Rule 8 covers a central principle of the game: “play the course as you found it”. Some players uphold the notion as one of the sacred cornerstones of the game. Others view the principle as a technical nuisance. And we’re all free to decide for ourselves within which of those categories we believe a player operates. The only other thing I’ll add - in my experience, old habits die hard.

 

[sixcat]

This stuff has been happening for a very long time.  We just have more cameras today so it's rare for anyone to get away with anything.

[DaveP043]

8 hours ago, downlowkey said:

For those still struggling to accept the legitimacy of PR’s penalty assessment - I suggest you take a step back from his “lie” - pun intended.

Slugger White (PGA Tour Rules Official) correctly framed this situation under 8-1a (4), as a matter re: line of play. The backswing is included in a player’s line of play. By grounding his club within the depression and then making a backswing(s), he altered his line of play (sub. conditions affecting stroke).

To add clarity, (I hope), one of the areas you are not allowed to alter is "The area of the player’s intended swing,".  Reed claims that the lump of sand that he moved was far enough back that it didn't matter to his swing, but a normal swing wouldn't have missed it by even a full inch.  Its clearly in the area of his intended swing. 

[tony@CIC]

Time for the news feeds to get over it - that's all I see from all of them this morning.. I do like Reed but he F'ed Up. It's done, penalty imposed which cost Reed lots of cash in the end, not to mention good will around his name. Wish those news jockeys would start focusing on the President's Cup. 

[vrnyn]

40 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Time for the news feeds to get over it - that's all I see from all of them this morning.. I do like Reed but he F'ed Up. It's done, penalty imposed which cost Reed lots of cash in the end, not to mention good will around his name. Wish those news jockeys would start focusing on the President's Cup. 

Agreed, so much coverage on this, lets get past it and focus on what's next. Reed's reputation is well known, nothing new.

[Mr. 82]

I am still shocked that Reed was picked for the President's Cup team.  Even well before this incident, his behavior (and poor play) at the Ryder Cup seemed to have sent a public perception of a player no one wants to be around, or would want to play with.  I realize that I only get information from the media and whatever transpires on TV, but the negative vibes Reed generated after Ryder Cup had me thinking he'd never be on another USA team unless he earned his way on.  But to see Tiger pick him really shocked me.

This whole incident at the Hero only reinforces what pretty much everyone has ever said about Reed since forever.  He has no relationship with any of his college teammates.  He's disowned his own family.  He's a loner and does things his own selfish way.  I just don't understand how anyone can give this guy the benefit of the doubt with anything, as his reputation and past behavior speak for themselves; at least I think so anyway.

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

So glad none of us gets judged on our past decisions and who we were when we were younger.

[Flog4]

The best quote I have heard on Reed was Rory..."some like to kick him when he's down" Nuff said

[Mr. 82]

2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

So glad none of us gets judged on our past decisions and who we were when we were younger.

There is judgment in everything in life.  There are also consequences for our behavior and actions.

And if you really want to go there, you judged someone with your statement above, even with the words you didn't say.

Judgment is a part of life.  Just because it's a taboo word in the general public doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Not that I want to make this political in any way, but there is a certain segment of our culture who lives on social media and goes around finding ways to destroy people's lives simply by opposing their worldview choices.  Twitter, Facebook and Instagram have become the de facto social police, and people are losing jobs (and committing suicide) simply because of actions or opinions that in the past would have never raised an eyebrow.  But a certain younger "woke" generation thinks it's ok to destroy people's lives, simply because someone doesn't agree with their point of view.

For what it's worth, nothing I said above is news, or not already known.  If you want to defend Reed for being a total ass in public and cheating in golf, that's your prerogative.  I just see a young man with a lot of talent to play a game that in the past has demanded integrity and calling penalties on yourself, instead of being forced to have them called out to you, when you truly know you broke the rules.  It's a pattern of behavior that has followed Patrick Reed everywhere he's gone.  So it's not like this is a one off mistake that has never happened in the past.  He's habitual with this.  And I find it truly sad that this young man has disowned his own family.  What exactly did his parents do that was so unforgivable?  And since Reed won't speak about it publicly I guess we'll never know.  Truly sad though, and I don't believe this will end well when all is said and done with Reed in life.  There's more to this story that is yet to be written, and not in a positive way.  I almost pity him in a way, if he didn't seem to intentionally self-destruct so much.

[BADFanBoi Scotty]

Not sure if you heard, practice round at Royal Melbourne...

"On the first tee, from America... The Excavator"

[DaveP043]

39 minutes ago, Green Sheep Productions said:

Not sure if you heard, practice round at Royal Melbourne...

"On the first tee, from America... The Excavator"

IS he perhaps a distant relative to the long-time coach of Notre Dame basketball...Digger Phelps?