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JohnSmalls

Hero World Challenge 2019

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Same tournament in 2015. Seems more like habit than accident.


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Makes you wonder if he “actually” won Rickie’s Masters...?
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11 hours ago, GB13 said:

This seems to me like a cop out and refusal to accept any responsibility for his action. Intent or not, he improved the lie, and in a game of honor, the proper thing is to say, while not intentional, I understand I improved my lie, and therefore should be penalized. I mean, you know you’re gonna get penalized anyway, why not save face and act like it wasn’t intentional? 

Good.

He accepted the penalty so how is it a cop out?He explained to the rules official his side of the story, they explained theirs based on the evidence they had. After the discussion he took his 2 strokes and moved on. 
 

 

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

He accepted the penalty so how is it a cop out?He explained to the rules official his side of the story, they explained theirs based on the evidence they had. After the discussion he took his 2 strokes and moved on. 
 

 

He owned it because he knew he was caught on camera. Pretty slick move to be honest. Someone should tell him he has enough raw talent and doesn’t need to do this silly stuff. 

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6 minutes ago, bens197 said:

He owned it because he knew he was caught on camera. Pretty slick move to be honest. Someone should tell him he has enough raw talent and doesn’t need to do this silly stuff. 

Again we only have one angle. I get the hate from many on the internets for reed but it’s limited visual evidence from one angle. If he’s takin a practice swing away from his ball he’s not improving his lie. 

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3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

He accepted the penalty so how is it a cop out?He explained to the rules official his side of the story, they explained theirs based on the evidence they had. After the discussion he took his 2 strokes and moved on. 
 

 

It’s a cop out, because instead of taking responsibility, he blamed his infraction on something else, and not himself. Therefore, he’s saying it wasn’t his fault and we should blame the cameramen, not him.

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28 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Again we only have one angle. I get the hate from many on the internets for reed but it’s limited visual evidence from one angle. If he’s takin a practice swing away from his ball he’s not improving his lie. 

I like Reed. He’s a little edgy and has sole baggage but who the heck doesn’t?

The one angle is clear enough and he took the penalty without a fight. Next. 

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3 hours ago, GB13 said:

It’s a cop out, because instead of taking responsibility, he blamed his infraction on something else, and not himself. Therefore, he’s saying it wasn’t his fault and we should blame the cameramen, not him.

He gave his side of the story, no different than any other pro would do. That’s part of the process/discussion that takes place between rules official and player. Saying that a different camera angle would have shown better angle is lying blame on camera man or lack of coverage. 
 

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In a world where everybody seems to give a non-descript answer to every question, I think it was nice to hear a glimpse of what Reed was actually thinking. Just about everything that people are saying about the incident and him wouldn’t change no matter what his answer was. He never denied doing it on purpose, he only disagreed with the penalty cuz he didn’t see it as improving his lie.

Also to those that think the penalty should have been more, I hope you realize that it cost him the win and $750k.
I don’t condone cheating by any stretch but we only have 1 camera angle and a Mans word to go on.


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Well, Henrik Stenson wins by 1 over Jon Rahm after a final round 66. Tiger finished in 4th behind Patrick Reed.

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Thankfully! I would have hated to see Rhambo take it.


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All I have to say about the Reed incident is that, despite his past transgressions, he should have been given the benefit of the doubt, especially with the lack of evidence available to review.

There was only one camera angle to look at, and it provided no definitive proof that he was actually improving his lie. The video certainly didn't "look good" but there really wasn't enough evidence from just that camera angle to definitively state that he actually improved his lie in any way. His explanation for his actions is certainly a plausible explanation, at least in my opinion.

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I just finished watching the clip again and here’s what I see... Reed grounds his club directly behind the ball in the sand, and takes the club back just as he would if he were taking the shot. He re-routes his club on the way down to complete the practice swing well inside of where the ball is. The takeaway is part of the stroke and the lip of the sand clearly impeded his ability to take the club back in a normal fashion. Therefore the removal of sand was an improvement of his lie. Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

On a mildly separate note: the clip I found on YouTube showed him stepping a few feet away from the ball and taking a legitimate practice swing - complete with a splash of sand. Do the new rules actually allow this???

 

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35 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I just finished watching the clip again and here’s what I see... Reed grounds his club directly behind the ball in the sand, and takes the club back just as he would if he were taking the shot. He re-routes his club on the way down to complete the practice swing well inside of where the ball is. The takeaway is part of the stroke and the lip of the sand clearly impeded his ability to take the club back in a normal fashion. Therefore the removal of sand was an improvement of his lie. Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

On a mildly separate note: the clip I found on YouTube showed him stepping a few feet away from the ball and taking a legitimate practice swing - complete with a splash of sand. Do the new rules actually allow this???

 

Very common in Florida are waste areas or waste bunkers  which are not prepared and maintained as bunkers that are considered a hazard.  The area Reed is in is a waste area.  It is treated the same as any other general area of the course and practice swings are allowed, just like on grass.  

Just like anywhere else, you can't improve your lie.

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17 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Very common in Florida are waste areas or waste bunkers  which are not prepared and maintained as bunkers that are considered a hazard.  The area Reed is in is a waste area.  It is treated the same as any other general area of the course and practice swings are allowed, just like on grass.  

Just like anywhere else, you can't improve your lie.

Gotcha. I thought that’s what it was, but wanted to make sure.

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For those still struggling to accept the legitimacy of PR’s penalty assessment - I suggest you take a step back from his “lie” - pun intended.

Slugger White (PGA Tour Rules Official) correctly framed this situation under 8-1a (4), as a matter re: line of play. The backswing is included in a player’s line of play. By grounding his club within the depression and then making a backswing(s), he altered his line of play (sub. conditions affecting stroke).

For the same reason you may not remove a bush growing in front of your ball, you may not knock down a pile of sand behind it. Rule 8 covers a central principle of the game: “play the course as you found it”. Some players uphold the notion as one of the sacred cornerstones of the game. Others view the principle as a technical nuisance. And we’re all free to decide for ourselves within which of those categories we believe a player operates. The only other thing I’ll add - in my experience, old habits die hard.

 

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This stuff has been happening for a very long time.  We just have more cameras today so it's rare for anyone to get away with anything.

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8 hours ago, downlowkey said:

For those still struggling to accept the legitimacy of PR’s penalty assessment - I suggest you take a step back from his “lie” - pun intended.

Slugger White (PGA Tour Rules Official) correctly framed this situation under 8-1a (4), as a matter re: line of play. The backswing is included in a player’s line of play. By grounding his club within the depression and then making a backswing(s), he altered his line of play (sub. conditions affecting stroke).

To add clarity, (I hope), one of the areas you are not allowed to alter is "The area of the player’s intended swing,".  Reed claims that the lump of sand that he moved was far enough back that it didn't matter to his swing, but a normal swing wouldn't have missed it by even a full inch.  Its clearly in the area of his intended swing. 

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Time for the news feeds to get over it - that's all I see from all of them this morning.. I do like Reed but he F'ed Up. It's done, penalty imposed which cost Reed lots of cash in the end, not to mention good will around his name. Wish those news jockeys would start focusing on the President's Cup. 

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40 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Time for the news feeds to get over it - that's all I see from all of them this morning.. I do like Reed but he F'ed Up. It's done, penalty imposed which cost Reed lots of cash in the end, not to mention good will around his name. Wish those news jockeys would start focusing on the President's Cup. 

Agreed, so much coverage on this, lets get past it and focus on what's next. Reed's reputation is well known, nothing new.

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I am still shocked that Reed was picked for the President's Cup team.  Even well before this incident, his behavior (and poor play) at the Ryder Cup seemed to have sent a public perception of a player no one wants to be around, or would want to play with.  I realize that I only get information from the media and whatever transpires on TV, but the negative vibes Reed generated after Ryder Cup had me thinking he'd never be on another USA team unless he earned his way on.  But to see Tiger pick him really shocked me.

This whole incident at the Hero only reinforces what pretty much everyone has ever said about Reed since forever.  He has no relationship with any of his college teammates.  He's disowned his own family.  He's a loner and does things his own selfish way.  I just don't understand how anyone can give this guy the benefit of the doubt with anything, as his reputation and past behavior speak for themselves; at least I think so anyway.

 

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