Why Wilson Lauch Pad irons are a good thing for golf

[russtopherb]

And yet another topic that starts out great about new clubs & tech that helps make the game more enjoyable gets derailed with gibberish that's already been disproved countless times. 

[null]

10 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

And yet another topic that starts out great about new clubs & tech that helps make the game more enjoyable gets derailed with gibberish that's already been disproved countless times. 

Don't you go on forums for activities you no longer participate in to tell everyone else they're doing it wrong? 

[HardcoreLooper]

7 hours ago, Wedgie said:

On 12/26/2019 at 1:32 PM, HardcoreLooper said:

You might take a look at the Cobra T-Rail irons. The rails help with fat shots and they offer a junior shaft. I’m sure you can buy a single club.


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

I love the idea of T-Rails.  I haven't found single irons with junior shafts yet, but I'll keep looking.  Thanks for the tip!

[bellairemi]

Interesting on the mention of hybrid irons and junior golfers as I just had a discussion with my kids' teaching pro on this.  He strongly dissuades much use of hybrids among the junior golfers he teaches as he believes they limit a younger golfer's ability to learn the correct impact conditions.  He really does not favor it with the adults he teaches either (same reasoning) but understands that at some point the equipment might have to substitute somewhat for swing quality in order for the game to be enjoyable.

[null]

1 hour ago, bellairemi said:

Interesting on the mention of hybrid irons and junior golfers as I just had a discussion with my kids' teaching pro on this.  He strongly dissuades much use of hybrids among the junior golfers he teaches as he believes they limit a younger golfer's ability to learn the correct impact conditions.  He really does not favor it with the adults he teaches either (same reasoning) but understands that at some point the equipment might have to substitute somewhat for swing quality in order for the game to be enjoyable.

Can't say I agree with this. There are tons of PGA Tour and even more LPGA tour players that use hybrids. 

I'm guessing he doesn't believe in cavity back irons either. Does he make his kids use persimmon woods too? 

[PlaidJacket]

1 hour ago, bellairemi said:

but understands that at some point the equipment might have to substitute somewhat for swing quality in order for the game to be enjoyable.

That "some point" arrived a long time a ago for the majority of players. Most players are high handicappers if they even have a handicap and are only interested hitting occasional good shots, advancing the ball and having some fun. I think hybrids offer a lot of forgiveness and have a place in the game for a lot of players. I might concede that perhaps for kids starting out I too might steer away from hybrids. However, there might come a day when even your pro! decides this game could use some assistance as he's no longer the Pro! he remembers or thinks himself being. 

[bellairemi]

8 hours ago, jlukes said:

Can't say I agree with this. There are tons of PGA Tour and even more LPGA tour players that use hybrids. 

I'm guessing he doesn't believe in cavity back irons either. Does he make his kids use persimmon woods too? 

He is not a fan of wider soled cavity back irons either, at least for those learning the game.  I'm not here to agree or disagree necessarily with his points because I honestly do not know.  But he did win the 2019 PGA National Junior Instruction Award and has had 40 of his juniors go on to play college golf in the last 4 years (my eldest daughter being one of them) - this from an area with a population of around 25.000 people.  He's not a "golf should be painful" guy but honestly believes that students cannot get the sense of what good contact should be with the wider soles.

[edingc]

10 hours ago, bellairemi said:

He is not a fan of wider soled cavity back irons either, at least for those learning the game.  I'm not here to agree or disagree necessarily with his points because I honestly do not know.  But he did win the 2019 PGA National Junior Instruction Award and has had 40 of his juniors go on to play college golf in the last 4 years (my eldest daughter being one of them) - this from an area with a population of around 25.000 people.  He's not a "golf should be painful" guy but honestly believes that students cannot get the sense of what good contact should be with the wider soles.

Isn't that kind of the, "I'll be forced to become a better ball striker if I play blades instead of SGIs," argument, though?

I mean, a flushed shot is a flushed shot, a missed shot is a missed shot. Nobody is playing GI/SGI irons because they're purposely trying to miss the center of the club face. 

Certainly, there is a different feel between different types of clubs. I get that. Just seems odd not to use technology that is designed to help. At the end of the day, lowest score wins, and the scorecard doesn't care what type of iron your used to post the score (as long as it's conforming, of course ).

[bens197]

I’d love to see this get back on track...

the Mark Crossfield post by @jlukes hit on exposing us to brands we otherwise wouldn’t consider. I don’t remember who posted the NASCAR analogy but if we parallel that logic, the market can normalize or de-stigmatize these style clubs and encourage more recreational players to give them a shot.  Fact is, without proper education, a majority of golfers are going to lean towards clubs that look cool and or are played by their favorite golfers. 

[J.B. TexasEx]

1 hour ago, edingc said:

Isn't that kind of the, "I'll be forced to become a better ball striker if I play blades instead of SGIs," argument, though?

I mean, a flushed shot is a flushed shot, a missed shot is a missed shot. Nobody is playing GI/SGI irons because they're purposely trying to miss the center of the club face. 

Certainly, there is a different feel between different types of clubs. I get that. Just seems odd not to use technology that is designed to help. At the end of the day, lowest score wins, and the scorecard doesn't care what type of iron your used to post the score (as long as it's conforming, of course ).

I've experienced the same thing when I purchased my "new" 2017 z565 Srixon driver this past year. A flushed shot wasn't any better than my 2007 Cleveland HiBore. But, my misses - especially off the heel - are better.

Having said that, I don't want to play with SGI irons because they usually look too big & clunky to my eye with the thicker toplines. I'd rather get some feedback from a mishit with a forged cavity back or "mild" GI head. To each his own. 

I need to like the look & feel of the clubs in my bag. That also helps breed confidence and belief.

[edingc]

39 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

I've experienced the same thing when I purchased my "new" 2017 z565 Srixon driver this past year. A flushed shot wasn't any better than my 2007 Cleveland HiBore. But, my misses - especially off the heel - are better.

Having said that, I don't want to play with SGI irons because they usually look too big & clunky to my eye with the thicker toplines. I'd rather get some feedback from a mishit with a forged cavity back or "mild" GI head. To each his own. 

I need to like the look & feel of the clubs in my bag. That also helps breed confidence and belief.

Certainly. And looks are certainly part of the equation. I personally try to balance both looks and forgiveness, and thankfully there are now several models out there that do both well.

I think the Launch Pads, Clevelands, Tour Edge Ironwoods, etc., are great things for golf though. They are priced competitively, for starters. And for the right person they will make golf more enjoyable.

When I was fit for irons a few months back I was chatting with my fitter and he said he had fit someone recently that gained 20-30 yards per club with the Cleveland Launchers because the wide sole helped her to stop digging and chunking so badly.

Again, the reality is that most people are not going to spend a ton of time or money on golf, and only want to be able to make it out a few times a year and have fun while doing so. Or, there are people like my in-laws that play a lot of golf, but don't practice or want to change their swings at all, so they are wanting these types of clubs to get a few more years of enjoyment out of the game. A few extra yards here and there for them can be huge for their games. 

[null]

15 hours ago, bellairemi said:

He is not a fan of wider soled cavity back irons either, at least for those learning the game.  I'm not here to agree or disagree necessarily with his points because I honestly do not know.  But he did win the 2019 PGA National Junior Instruction Award and has had 40 of his juniors go on to play college golf in the last 4 years (my eldest daughter being one of them) - this from an area with a population of around 25.000 people.  He's not a "golf should be painful" guy but honestly believes that students cannot get the sense of what good contact should be with the wider soles.

Dustin Johnson putting a 22 degree hybrid in play this week... 

[Berg Ryman]

5 hours ago, bens197 said:

I’d love to see this get back on track...

the Mark Crossfield post by @jlukes hit on exposing us to brands we otherwise wouldn’t consider. I don’t remember who posted the NASCAR analogy but if we parallel that logic, the market can normalize or de-stigmatize these style clubs and encourage more recreational players to give them a shot.  Fact is, without proper education, a majority of golfers are going to lean towards clubs that look cool and or are played by their favorite golfers. 

So Steve, the only thing I can add to that, and I'm sure you'd agree considering your experience in the golf sales sphere during college, and from other debates on this forum in other threads about different ideas in equipment, is that there is no group of athletes or prospective athletes that gravitate toward "this is how it's always been" then the average to good golfer.

When presented with either new brands doing interesting things or new tech that makes the game easier, golfers scoff at those ideas and play what they've always played because they are creatures of habit. Now, companies like Tour Edge, Srixon, Cobra even have been pushing on different and new tech that could help golfers, but people say I'm a Callaway guy or I only play Taylormade drivers and it's a position I've never understood. I know I'm not talking to the normal golfer here because we all believe, at least to some extent the #BeYourOwnBrand ethos of MGS, but we're not the main bell curve of the market.

I'll be honest, and I know I was talking to you about this @bens197, even though I'm damn near a single digit player, I can't wait to try these, the Launcher HB Turbos, the IronWood 4's, the T-Rails, and all sorts of irons. I get that they aren't everyone's cup of tee, but if we could just get past our own biases (harder to do than to say, obviously) I think we can all find clubs at all levels that make us happy and improve our games. I just don't think that the majority thinks that way. They think a club is supposed to look a certain way and for those people, I wish we could help them, but it's like trying to make the blind see.

[J.B. TexasEx]

5 hours ago, edingc said:

I think the Launch Pads, Clevelands, Tour Edge Ironwoods, etc., are great things for golf though. They are priced competitively, for starters. And for the right person they will make golf more enjoyable.

No argument from me on this point, but I'm almost guaranteed to hook these off the planet because they look a lot like hybrids.

I'm all for making the game more enjoyable, particularly as it pertains to pace-of-play.

[bens197]

So Steve, the only thing I can add to that, and I'm sure you'd agree considering your experience in the golf sales sphere during college, and from other debates on this forum in other threads about different ideas in equipment, is that there is no group of athletes or prospective athletes that gravitate toward "this is how it's always been" then the average to good golfer.

When presented with either new brands doing interesting things or new tech that makes the game easier, golfers scoff at those ideas and play what they've always played because they are creatures of habit. Now, companies like Tour Edge, Srixon, Cobra even have been pushing on different and new tech that could help golfers, but people say I'm a Callaway guy or I only play Taylormade drivers and it's a position I've never understood. I know I'm not talking to the normal golfer here because we all believe, at least to some extent the #BeYourOwnBrand ethos of MGS, but we're not the main bell curve of the market.

I'll be honest, and I know I was talking to you about this [mention=72203]bens197[/mention], even though I'm damn near a single digit player, I can't wait to try these, the Launcher HB Turbos, the IronWood 4's, the T-Rails, and all sorts of irons. I get that they aren't everyone's cup of tee, but if we could just get past our own biases (harder to do than to say, obviously) I think we can all find clubs at all levels that make us happy and improve our games. I just don't think that the majority thinks that way. They think a club is supposed to look a certain way and for those people, I wish we could help them, but it's like trying to make the blind see.

 

You finished the thought I was working to complete, well said RB. And to that, happy New Years as well, friend.

 

In golf sales, I always loved seeing the reaction on a players face when they returned to the shop with the 3 or 4 drivers they tried and the “hey, give this one a shot as well” was the top performer.

 

I can’t imagine how much better the golfing public as a whole would be if they were as open minded as you are about equipment.

[HardcoreLooper]

On 1/1/2020 at 12:06 PM, bellairemi said:

Interesting on the mention of hybrid irons and junior golfers as I just had a discussion with my kids' teaching pro on this.  He strongly dissuades much use of hybrids among the junior golfers he teaches as he believes they limit a younger golfer's ability to learn the correct impact conditions.  He really does not favor it with the adults he teaches either (same reasoning) but understands that at some point the equipment might have to substitute somewhat for swing quality in order for the game to be enjoyable.

I'm not going to argue with this guy's bona fides, but my kids have worked with four different PGA pros, and none of them have said anything about not hitting hybrids.  I'd love it if my daughter could hit something longer than an 8 iron off the ground, but she can't yet.  

[russtopherb]

5 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

I'm not going to argue with this guy's bona fides, but my kids have worked with four different PGA pros, and none of them have said anything about not hitting hybrids.  I'd love it if my daughter could hit something longer than an 8 iron off the ground, but she can't yet.  

Likewise. My son's pro handed him at least 3 different hybrids this season to try out, and specifically works with all the kids at the beginning of the season on how to hit their hybrids. 

W/S has always had a great handle on what makes an SGI club work, I've never hit anything in their D line that didn't help my game. I'm betting the Launch Pads will be no exception, even with my own mental blocks on hitting hybrids. The lower offset on these should go a long way in that regard.