Dlow206 does away with double bogeys

[sirchunksalot]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:44 AM, dlow206 said:

Now that I have cleaned up some setup fundamentals, I need to work on making sure the face gets squared up. I know to square it up, I need to get some flex in the left wrist. I am going to experiment with a little bit of wrist bow during the backswing. In my mind, this will reduce the amount of timing required to square the face. Let's see if this works, it may not.

This is something I need to work on. I was playing yesterday when a guy joined me on the fifth hole and we got to talking. He had just taken a lesson and was working on this exact thing. He was hitting iron shots that were like laser beams, starting out low before rising to their apex and just flying so pretty I was almost drooling. My iron shots just seem to rainbow and fly in am upside down u. 

Keep at it! You'll be shooting lower scores before long!

 

[dlow206]

On 8/13/2020 at 8:58 PM, Kenny B said:

Uh oh!  Now you've done it.  I hope the golf gods didn't hear that.  

Hope the fix works!!

 

On 8/14/2020 at 7:48 AM, dlow206 said:

Thanks. Although it is a change, in my mind I don't think about it as a change. It's more of going back to my normal, natural tempo.

So in today's round, with driver I focused on tempo again, and it definitely helped. I can still hit a bad shot of course, but it wasn't like the unpredictable wildness that I was facing previously when I was getting too quick.

[dlow206]

On 8/14/2020 at 4:32 PM, sirchunksalot said:

This is something I need to work on. I was playing yesterday when a guy joined me on the fifth hole and we got to talking. He had just taken a lesson and was working on this exact thing. He was hitting iron shots that were like laser beams, starting out low before rising to their apex and just flying so pretty I was almost drooling. My iron shots just seem to rainbow and fly in am upside down u. 

Keep at it! You'll be shooting lower scores before long!

 

I scratched that bowing of the wrist thought already LOL. I have a new thought with irons. I need to feel like before left arm parallel, the toe of the club is going straight up. That toe up feel led to really good ball striking today. Minimal fat shots, solid iron shots with much higher trajectory. I was a low ball hitter so I need some height and spin.

[Manimal26]

On 3/4/2020 at 4:59 PM, dlow206 said:

One thing I continue to struggle with that I need to work on is grip and wrist angles. What I learned today is that you can have a strong grip with an open face near impact. That never dawned on me as being possible. I believe this explains the snap hooks I have with my driver, that the face is coming down open and then a sudden move right before impact to close the face. What I am going to work on is neutral grip, flat left wrist at the top, and then a small amount of left wrist flexion to start the downswing. 

@dlow206 Saw this in your signature and I am reading through it to get my thoughts for you.... Take a look at DJ or Rahm both play 10.5 drivers with strong grips but play cuts off the tee box...... After I am done reading through I will post in this for you

[dlow206]

33 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

@dlow206 Saw this in your signature and I am reading through it to get my thoughts for you.... Take a look at DJ or Rahm both play 10.5 drivers with strong grips but play cuts off the tee box...... After I am done reading through I will post in this for you

I was able to recently clean-up my drives. Two things I cleaned up specifically, not letting the right hand get too strong, and then make sure I maintain my natural tempo. When I get too quick in transition, things just go haywire.

[Manimal26]

@dlow206 Here are somethings I have picked out from the various pages that gave me insight along with the videos you had posted... Please again take this with a grain of salt since I have never seen you swing in person... I will attempt to address your concerns and please let me know if you have any thoughts questions feedback etc.

1. "Broke 100 today, shot 99 from the blue tees"
   • This is the first thing that stood out to me. Playing to a 21.5 HDCP use that to your advantage and play the correct tee's for your HDCP at whatever course you are at. If you are improving off the tee a closer shot to the green will improve you GIR dramatically and help lower your scores. If anyone gives you crap wager them some money on stroke play with your HDCP's playing in and if they take that bet they are a sucker. Of course it depends on how many tee boxes etc. To help tell what Tee's you could be playing you just take the distance you hit your 5 iron and multiply it by 36 (constant strikes) for example 5i 200 yards carry X 36 = 7200 yards.... also factor in those 36 how many chunks duffs etc... Saw you mentioned 5-10 so we can take 8 of those going around 120... (28 solid strikes X 190) + (8 bad strikes X 120) = 5320 + 960 = 6280... Then use your HDCP and play the close if you are in between.
   • As you improve move back, or when you are shorter learn to hit other clubs off the tee for better positions etc...
2. "I remembered that during my lesson with Monte, one of the things we talked about at the end was that my grip was too strong. So i decided to try to weaken my grip a bit. It felt strange, especially with how the wrist position felt at the top of the swing, but that straightened out my shots""Made a small change to how I grip the club. My grip tends to get too strong and then I start to miss low and left. However, the grip starts to feel weird if I have a neutral grip. So what I did was start my setup with the face open, grip the club with my normal strong grip, and then proceeded to square the face behind the ball to complete my setup. It helped a lot."
   • I made your comment large because nothing is more uncomfortable than a grip change... However even as you try to alter your grip there are still some things in it I noticed that are holding you back... Proper grip sets up everything for the most part... even in a further video this is something I still notice... 
   • .
   • I found this video throughout the thread and was able to highlight something that could be the source of the chunks. That is your right thumb location. Below take a look at the Goat and his grip at address. Hopefully this will make some sense after you see this next photo.
   • .
   • If you notice his right thumb is off to the side. I could not find a picture down the line that was good enough so I took one of myself to help illustrate. The right index finger no different than a trigger finger on a gun. Depending on how you push/pull move it etc greatly alters the gun shot and a golf shot is not that different. However a gun is designed to get your thumb moving to the side and a golf club is not. When your thumb is on top the golf shaft and you apply pressure with it the club head shoots down into the ground and the result is a chunk. Also having right thumbs pressure prevents the club from properly releasing which can trap the ball. This makes some sense since you mentioned you can not get the height you need sometimes. The trap/stinger shot is very useful, but getting the right decent into a green is much more important. 
3. "I made it to the range yesterday and was out there for almost two hours. I typically warm up with short pitch shots before getting into full swings. When I was hitting short pitch shots, I was pulling the ball left. I had been having this problem lately, and just couldn't figure out why. I'm not making that bad of a swing that the ball should be pulled on a short pitch. Anyway, continued on to full swings, still struggled with left pulls, but able to manipulate my swing a bit to somewhat straighten out my shots. At this point, I felt like there was just too much swing manipulation going on."
   • You are right with the manipulation. That causes more problems than it will fix. Some of that can be fixed with how you address the ball and this is something I noticed in most of your video clips.... See the pictures below...
   • 
   • In these you have improved your posture tremendously, but look at Tiger and how easy his hands are resting and at impact they have risen. if you look at your shaft line and his, yours goes up through your shoulders and his goes through his waist. By starting with such high hands you need to compensate with your grip and because you understand golf and are an athlete you can make those but you tend to over exert and chunk or if you do not apply enough pressure you top/hit it thin... Hand should be free falling this will allow your back swing to also progress much more naturally.
4. "I thought I was over-swinging, so I tried to slow down the swing, that didn't help too much. Tried changing somethings with setup, etc. that didn't help either. On hole 12, I decided to slow down my transition a bit. Be more patient at the top and feel like I am pausing at the top (it's not really a pause, it just feels like it). That was the difference maker and that was the swing I remember. From there, driver was point and shoot and a fairway finder. That small power fade that I remember. Somewhere a long the line in the last month, in the attempt to hit the ball farther, I started getting quicker in transition, and that made me wild off the tee. I actually hit the ball farther with the slower transition, for one because I make better contact, and two, I am not actually swinging slower, just being more patient. I am really glad that I figured this one out"
   • I am putting this in here because it highlights a few things. You have a desire to improve! You are analyzing your swing along with practice and looking to others for help. These thoughts again please take with a grain of salt... The course is to be enjoyed played, but we are not tour pros. So do not get caught up to much analyzing in a round. Make a note and take it to the range. In the next photo it will highlight something I see a bit...
   • 
   • The goal is to start and address the ball like Tiger and then end in the perfect impact position. However I am guiltily of this and sometimes I just want the baby and not the labor pains. A golf swing is a process and focusing on the things you have been are very important, but it all starts with your grip and works from there... After that is the take away....
   • 
   • In an early video I saw a lot of arm rolling and becoming disconnected. The second photo shows a decent take away which will allow you transition into a better back swing.
   • My overall thoughts are that you are 100% improving and that's because you are putting in the effort... like anything the foundation is crucial...
     • Work on the grip to get it like Tiger.... Great book is swing the club head (hyper link to amzn) it will address positions grips feels, and every time I read it I gain something new
     • After you get the grip work on things in steps and focus your energy towards that... Takeaway leads into back swing.... back swing into transition... transition into the down swing... down swing into that Y shaped impact... and impact into the release...

 

I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any questions or any feedback...

 

 

 

[dlow206]

24 minutes ago, Manimal26 said:

@dlow206 Here are somethings I have picked out from the various pages that gave me insight along with the videos you had posted... Please again take this with a grain of salt since I have never seen you swing in person... I will attempt to address your concerns and please let me know if you have any thoughts questions feedback etc.

1. "Broke 100 today, shot 99 from the blue tees"
   • This is the first thing that stood out to me. Playing to a 21.5 HDCP use that to your advantage and play the correct tee's for your HDCP at whatever course you are at. If you are improving off the tee a closer shot to the green will improve you GIR dramatically and help lower your scores. If anyone gives you crap wager them some money on stroke play with your HDCP's playing in and if they take that bet they are a sucker. Of course it depends on how many tee boxes etc. To help tell what Tee's you could be playing you just take the distance you hit your 5 iron and multiply it by 36 (constant strikes) for example 5i 200 yards carry X 36 = 7200 yards.... also factor in those 36 how many chunks duffs etc... Saw you mentioned 5-10 so we can take 8 of those going around 120... (28 solid strikes X 190) + (8 bad strikes X 120) = 5320 + 960 = 6280... Then use your HDCP and play the close if you are in between.
   • As you improve move back, or when you are shorter learn to hit other clubs off the tee for better positions etc...
2. "I remembered that during my lesson with Monte, one of the things we talked about at the end was that my grip was too strong. So i decided to try to weaken my grip a bit. It felt strange, especially with how the wrist position felt at the top of the swing, but that straightened out my shots""Made a small change to how I grip the club. My grip tends to get too strong and then I start to miss low and left. However, the grip starts to feel weird if I have a neutral grip. So what I did was start my setup with the face open, grip the club with my normal strong grip, and then proceeded to square the face behind the ball to complete my setup. It helped a lot."
   • I made your comment large because nothing is more uncomfortable than a grip change... However even as you try to alter your grip there are still some things in it I noticed that are holding you back... Proper grip sets up everything for the most part... even in a further video this is something I still notice... 
   • .
   • I found this video throughout the thread and was able to highlight something that could be the source of the chunks. That is your right thumb location. Below take a look at the Goat and his grip at address. Hopefully this will make some sense after you see this next photo.
   • .
   • If you notice his right thumb is off to the side. I could not find a picture down the line that was good enough so I took one of myself to help illustrate. The right index finger no different than a trigger finger on a gun. Depending on how you push/pull move it etc greatly alters the gun shot and a golf shot is not that different. However a gun is designed to get your thumb moving to the side and a golf club is not. When your thumb is on top the golf shaft and you apply pressure with it the club head shoots down into the ground and the result is a chunk. Also having right thumbs pressure prevents the club from properly releasing which can trap the ball. This makes some sense since you mentioned you can not get the height you need sometimes. The trap/stinger shot is very useful, but getting the right decent into a green is much more important. 
3. "I made it to the range yesterday and was out there for almost two hours. I typically warm up with short pitch shots before getting into full swings. When I was hitting short pitch shots, I was pulling the ball left. I had been having this problem lately, and just couldn't figure out why. I'm not making that bad of a swing that the ball should be pulled on a short pitch. Anyway, continued on to full swings, still struggled with left pulls, but able to manipulate my swing a bit to somewhat straighten out my shots. At this point, I felt like there was just too much swing manipulation going on."
   • You are right with the manipulation. That causes more problems than it will fix. Some of that can be fixed with how you address the ball and this is something I noticed in most of your video clips.... See the pictures below...
   • 
   • In these you have improved your posture tremendously, but look at Tiger and how easy his hands are resting and at impact they have risen. if you look at your shaft line and his, yours goes up through your shoulders and his goes through his waist. By starting with such high hands you need to compensate with your grip and because you understand golf and are an athlete you can make those but you tend to over exert and chunk or if you do not apply enough pressure you top/hit it thin... Hand should be free falling this will allow your back swing to also progress much more naturally.
4. "I thought I was over-swinging, so I tried to slow down the swing, that didn't help too much. Tried changing somethings with setup, etc. that didn't help either. On hole 12, I decided to slow down my transition a bit. Be more patient at the top and feel like I am pausing at the top (it's not really a pause, it just feels like it). That was the difference maker and that was the swing I remember. From there, driver was point and shoot and a fairway finder. That small power fade that I remember. Somewhere a long the line in the last month, in the attempt to hit the ball farther, I started getting quicker in transition, and that made me wild off the tee. I actually hit the ball farther with the slower transition, for one because I make better contact, and two, I am not actually swinging slower, just being more patient. I am really glad that I figured this one out"
   • I am putting this in here because it highlights a few things. You have a desire to improve! You are analyzing your swing along with practice and looking to others for help. These thoughts again please take with a grain of salt... The course is to be enjoyed played, but we are not tour pros. So do not get caught up to much analyzing in a round. Make a note and take it to the range. In the next photo it will highlight something I see a bit...
   • 
   • The goal is to start and address the ball like Tiger and then end in the perfect impact position. However I am guiltily of this and sometimes I just want the baby and not the labor pains. A golf swing is a process and focusing on the things you have been are very important, but it all starts with your grip and works from there... After that is the take away....
   • 
   • In an early video I saw a lot of arm rolling and becoming disconnected. The second photo shows a decent take away which will allow you transition into a better back swing.
   • My overall thoughts are that you are 100% improving and that's because you are putting in the effort... like anything the foundation is crucial...
     • Work on the grip to get it like Tiger.... Great book is swing the club head (hyper link to amzn) it will address positions grips feels, and every time I read it I gain something new
     • After you get the grip work on things in steps and focus your energy towards that... Takeaway leads into back swing.... back swing into transition... transition into the down swing... down swing into that Y shaped impact... and impact into the release...

 

I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any questions or any feedback...

 

 

 

Man, this is awesome, I really appreciate the analysis, you definitely didn't have to do this. All of your points make sense. 

I have always felt that there was something off with my setup, especially my grip. I have been told by instructors in the past things like "your grip is too strong", but we had never really talked about my right hand/thumb being problematic. I actually recently discovered the problematic right thumb, and fixing that has helped. It actually no longer feels weird with a more correct right thumb.

One thing you probably won't see as much because there isn't a face-on video, my head tends to move up and down a lot during the swing. I'm not talking subtlety moving up and down, I'm talking like 6 inches up and down. I've found that by focusing on keeping my head level during the swing, i hit less chunks. 

 Regarding tee selection, my home course is pretty short, its about 6400 yards from the blues, 6000 from the whites. Sometimes I play worse from the white tees actually, just because it puts in play hazards and bunkers that I am safe from when playing from the blues.

Again, appreciate this, this was really great analysis.

[dlow206]

Overall, ball striking is starting to come around. For driver, for me, its all about tempo. If I start to get too quick, then I start to spray the ball. If i take what feels like a pause at the top, usually end up with a good strike.

Irons, when I am on, I am throwing darts out there onto the green. Mixed in there though, sometimes things go really haywire. I had a bad hole today where I pulled a 9 iron so far left it went OB (actually a hazard) that I am not sure how that could happen. I was in a great lie in the fairway. What I feel that happens when I make a good swing is that my head stays level throughout the swing instead of moving up and down. When I make a bad swing, I feel that i'm dipping down in transition and likely getting steep and then hit the ball fat or manipulate the club in someway that causes some poor result. Overall though, ball striking with irons improving immensely. 

Short game is still a little rough. Lag putting needs work, bunker play needs work. Pitching is ok, but not great. Still blade a few every now and then.

[dlow206]

Based on where I am at right now, I think it makes sense for me to focus on putting. That is probably the area where I can drop the most strokes. I signed up for a series of three online putting lessons with Marcus Potter. Will report back on how that goes.

[BMart519]

18 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Based on where I am at right now, I think it makes sense for me to focus on putting. That is probably the area where I can drop the most strokes. I signed up for a series of three online putting lessons with Marcus Potter. Will report back on how that goes.

How many GIR and total putts do your average? 

[cnosil]

How many GIR and total putts do your average? 

Some better questions might be average distance from hole based on fairway yardages, first putt distance and average putts from distance.

I say that because without understanding distances, you can’t really asses putting. If I answered 0 greens and 36 putts would that tell you much about my putting? How about 10 greens and 32 putts?

[BMart519]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Some better questions might be average distance from hole based on fairway yardages, first putt distance and average putts from distance.

I say that because without understanding distances, you can’t really asses putting. If I answered 0 greens and 36 putts would that tell you much about my putting? How about 10 greens and 32 putts?

Agree, but that requires detailed stat tracking which is less likely than the basic stats provided in most apps: fairways, GIR, putts, penalties, sand shots. Maybe add number of 3 putts per round in addition to total putts. The OP is a ~20 handicap, you can find some rough averages for putts/round from stat tracking providers for a basic comparison to benchmark. 

I cannot conclude with certainty, but I would be comfortable saying 0 GIR and 36 putts you have a poor short game and are average to below average putter depending on how bad the short game is. It is unlikely OP is consistently chipping within 6 feet while hitting 0 greens and two-putting. I would say you are an average to above average putter with 32 putts/round and 10 GIR as you will have a lot of long first putts, which is why I asked for GIR in addition to putts. We can also make some informed guesses about approach proximity for a 20 cap and first putt lengths based on his number of GIR. 

Ideally, the OP would provide first putt distance, putts/GIR, 3 putts/round, up and down %, average approach proximity from <100 yards, 100-150, and 150+, number of penalties per round, etc. But you've got to draw the line somewhere before you sign him up for a full lesson package... 

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Agree, but that requires detailed stat tracking which is less likely than the basic stats provided in most apps: fairways, GIR, putts, penalties, sand shots. Maybe add number of 3 putts per round in addition to total putts. The OP is a ~20 handicap, you can find some rough averages for putts/round from stat tracking providers for a basic comparison to benchmark. 

I cannot conclude with certainty, but I would be comfortable saying 0 GIR and 36 putts you have a poor short game and are average to below average putter depending on how bad the short game is. It is unlikely OP is consistently chipping within 6 feet while hitting 0 greens and two-putting. I would say you are an average to above average putter with 32 putts/round and 10 GIR as you will have a lot of long first putts, which is why I asked for GIR in addition to putts. We can also make some informed guesses about approach proximity for a 20 cap and first putt lengths based on his number of GIR. 

Ideally, the OP would provide first putt distance, putts/GIR, 3 putts/round, up and down %, average approach proximity from <100 yards, 100-150, and 150+, number of penalties per round, etc. But you've got to draw the line somewhere before you sign him up for a full lesson package... 

All I can say is OP sucks at putting LOL. But I also never took putting practice/improvement seriously until now. Although I have played golf off and on in my life for short amounts of time, I would consider the last 8 months the first period of actually playing golf seriously.

Now that I am working on putting improvement (just had a lesson), i will start tracking some stats, with the most basic being how many putts per hole/round. I need to get rid of the 4 putts, should not be having those every round. Also reduce the 3 putts as well.

[dlow206]

Made a significant discovery today regarding irons. If I hover my irons, I hit the ball much cleaner, not fat. Ball comes out high and lands soft with short irons. Historically, my iron trajectory was always lower than desired and my miss was low and left. My iron miss has started to become high block right. I'm feeling confident now that I can hit the green from 140 yards and in. 

My driver has been a bit off. When I make good contact, I'm getting the ball out there 250 plus. However, been a bit wilder off the tee than I would like.

The club that I can't figure out is my hybrids. When I hit a good shot with the hybrid, it is beautiful, but when I hit a bad shot with it, it's either a dead pull left or a hook. I never feel very confident hitting a hybrid. 

[dlow206]

Made an important discovery today regarding putting setup. Previously, when aligning my putt, i would just align the lines on my ball to what i thought was towards the cup (or the starting line), but I've found that line I am not actually lining up where I want the putt to go each time. I've now discovered a repeatable process that I can use for lining up the ball. It has helped significantly.

[GolfSpy AFG]

19 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Made an important discovery today regarding putting setup. Previously, when aligning my putt, i would just align the lines on my ball to what i thought was towards the cup (or the starting line), but I've found that line I am not actually lining up where I want the putt to go each time. I've now discovered a repeatable process that I can use for lining up the ball. It has helped significantly.

Not going to knock this, if it works for you then bravo, but I could never get my head around using a line on the ball.  To me it just introduces one more variable; in other words, I don't trust that I won't unintentionally line up the line on my ball wrong, in which case I'd be doomed from the start.

[dlow206]

13 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Not going to knock this, if it works for you then bravo, but I could never get my head around using a line on the ball.  To me it just introduces one more variable; in other words, I don't trust that I won't unintentionally line up the line on my ball wrong, in which case I'd be doomed from the start.

Yeah, i understand. I previously was lining up the line on the ball wrong at least some of the time. What I discovered works for me as of yesterday was to line up the ball, step behind the ball, line up my shaft with the line on the ball to see if it lines up with either the hole (straight putt) or with my intended aim point. Made a 24 footer and almost made a 50 footer with this method (3 inches short).

[dlow206]

Excited to have been selected to be a tester for the Titleist TSi driver test. I will post this in the official thread once it is created, but things I am looking for:

• Reduction of push fades, push slices. This is one of the biggest complaints with the SIM Max on other golf forums. I know part of it is swing of course, but the SIM Max being right biased is not helping
• Right amount of spin. I tend to hit the ball high toe on my misses resulting in low spin shots. Looking to get my spin up to an appropriate level
• Increase launch angle. I tend to launch low (too low). I believe I am losing distance because of this

I believe driver consistency will help my scores quite a bit. When I am off with the driver, i lose strokes to lost balls, having to punch out from the trees, etc. However, I do have days where I am on with driver, and those tend to be my best rounds.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

On 10/5/2020 at 10:56 AM, dlow206 said:

Yeah, i understand. I previously was lining up the line on the ball wrong at least some of the time. What I discovered works for me as of yesterday was to line up the ball, step behind the ball, line up my shaft with the line on the ball to see if it lines up with either the hole (straight putt) or with my intended aim point. Made a 24 footer and almost made a 50 footer with this method (3 inches short).

I am a line guy too. I line up the line on the ball toward a spot on the green where I want the ball direction to start on. Then step back about 10 feet and confirm my start line is correct. My putter is a face balanced Odyssey Marksman Fang which has a long alignment line. I line up the ball and putter lines and then a straight back straight through stroke. 

This is just what works for me. Been doing this method for about 10 years or so.

[dlow206]

One thing I need to work on that I think will help improve my scores quite a bit is short-game distance control. While I don't expect to be close to the pin on every pitch/chip shot, i definitely need improvement. I definitely have been having less chunks and bladed short shots, so that is an improvement, but now i tend to leave my pitch shots short. For example, say the hole is middle or back of the green. I often hit my pitch shots and they barely make it to the front of the green, leaving me a long putt. From 30 to 40 yards out, i think i should end up closer to the hole than 50 to 60 feet out. And this is from a clean lie in the fairway, not a difficult shot from the rough or anything like that.

[cnosil]

One thing I need to work on that I think will help improve my scores quite a bit is short-game distance control. While I don't expect to be close to the pin on every pitch/chip shot, i definitely need improvement. I definitely have been having less chunks and bladed short shots, so that is an improvement, but now i tend to leave my pitch shots short. For example, say the hole is middle or back of the green. I often hit my pitch shots and they barely make it to the front of the green, leaving me a long putt. From 30 to 40 yards out, i think i should end up closer to the hole than 50 to 60 feet out. And this is from a clean lie in the fairway, not a difficult shot from the rough or anything like that.

When you are making good contact and the ball ends up short, did you make the swing you wanted and did the ball do what you expected? What club are you using for those shots? I know I am working hard to make longer swings for my distance wedges to get the ball to go farther. I have also switched to lower lofted clubs to get more rollout.

[dlow206]

12 minutes ago, cnosil said:

When you are making good contact and the ball ends up short, did you make the swing you wanted and did the ball do what you expected? What club are you using for those shots? I know I am working hard to make longer swings for my distance wedges to get the ball to go farther. I have also switched to lower lofted clubs to get more rollout.

So now that i am making better contact, the ball is going shorter than i expected for the swing i made. I think its because i used to hit the ball either a little on the thin side or a bit more delofted, so the ball would go farther previously with the same swing.

I typically use my 58 for these shots. My 54 might be a better choice, need to get some more practice in with the 54.

[cnosil]

So now that i am making better contact, the ball is going shorter than i expected for the swing i made. I think its because i used to hit the ball either a little on the thin side or a bit more delofted, so the ball would go farther previously with the same swing.
I typically use my 58 for these shots. My 54 might be a better choice, need to get some more practice in with the 54.

Try to go the opposite and don’t worry about going long and consider going less lofted that the 54.

[GolfSpy AFG]

21 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

So now that i am making better contact, the ball is going shorter than i expected for the swing i made. I think its because i used to hit the ball either a little on the thin side or a bit more delofted, so the ball would go farther previously with the same swing.

I typically use my 58 for these shots. My 54 might be a better choice, need to get some more practice in with the 54.

From a mental standpoint, are you concentrating on the flag or a spot on the green to land the ball?

I've found success using Stockton's formula.  Decide if you are hitting a high or low shot, set up accordingly, and then pick a spot on the green where you want to land the ball and keep that in your "minds eye" during your swing.

Mechanically, this is the part of the game that I love the most but it certainly takes practice.  A "bigger" more full swing should fly it farther, sure, but it stands to reason that's a faster swing too, which means more spin and less rollout.  

[dlow206]

28 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

From a mental standpoint, are you concentrating on the flag or a spot on the green to land the ball?

I've found success using Stockton's formula.  Decide if you are hitting a high or low shot, set up accordingly, and then pick a spot on the green where you want to land the ball and keep that in your "minds eye" during your swing.

Mechanically, this is the part of the game that I love the most but it certainly takes practice.  A "bigger" more full swing should fly it farther, sure, but it stands to reason that's a faster swing too, which means more spin and less rollout.  

Assuming its a safe shot i focus on the pin, but i don't focus on where i am trying to land the ball. 

I also have an issue with decelerating on pitch shots, which i know is not a good thing.

[GolfSpy AFG]

9 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Assuming its a safe shot i focus on the pin, but i don't focus on where i am trying to land the ball. 

I also have an issue with decelerating on pitch shots, which i know is not a good thing.

So I fully recognize that what works for me may not for someone else, but I've found success focusing in on the spot i want to land the ball, and picking that spot based on the type of shot I'm attempting. I also struggled with decelerating and had to practice taking very short backswings t force myself to accelerate through impact.

Dave Stockton's "Unconscious Scoring" might be worth a read.  He gets a bit more technical than in "Unconscious Putting" but he still definitely focuses on the mental aspect and trusting your feel.

[dlow206]

3 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

So I fully recognize that what works for me may not for someone else, but I've found success focusing in on the spot i want to land the ball, and picking that spot based on the type of shot I'm attempting. I also struggled with decelerating and had to practice taking very short backswings t force myself to accelerate through impact.

Dave Stockton's "Unconscious Scoring" might be worth a read.  He gets a bit more technical than in "Unconscious Putting" but he still definitely focuses on the mental aspect and trusting your feel.

It definitely makes sense to think about landing spot. Especially here in the PNW and at my club, in the fall/winter, the greens are slow because of rain, but fast in the summer. I am going to start thinking more about landing spot. Sometimes i get caught up in thinking "don't blade it" rather than focusing on what i should focus on.

[BMart519]

Do you know the ratio of carry vs rollout for each of your clubs on a stock chip within 5-30 yards? If not, you can make some rough approximations and then test on course or at a short game facility. For example:

My 9 iron rolls twice as far as it flies (2:1) but can get up to 3:1 on fast greens or downslopes
PW 1:1, GW 1:2, SW 1:3, LW is minimal rollout that depends on distance and how the shot is played. 

Just practicing these swings and developing feels for 5, 10, 20 and 30 yard carries will make you more comfortable with these shots and allow you to play easier shots to the front of the green that roll to the middle or back and increase your margin for error. Using the same or similar balls is important for consistent greenside spin on these partial shots. Wherever possible I am landing my 9 iron a couple paces on and rolling it to the hole with a small swing instead of having to get the shaft near parallel with the ground on a more lofted wedge. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by BMart519

[dlow206]

11 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Do you know the ratio of carry vs rollout for each of your clubs on a stock chip within 5-30 yards? If not, you can make some rough approximations and then test on course or at a short game facility. For example:

My 9 iron rolls twice as far as it flies (2:1) but can get up to 3:1 on fast greens or downslopes
PW 1:1, GW 1:2, SW 1:3, LW is minimal rollout that depends on distance and how the shot is played. 

Just practicing these swings and developing feels for 5, 10, 20 and 30 yard carries will make you more comfortable with these shots and allow you to play easier shots to the front of the green that roll to the middle or back and increase your margin for error. Using the same or similar balls is important for consistent greenside spin on these partial shots. Wherever possible I am landing my 9 iron a couple paces on and rolling it to the hole with a small swing instead of having to get the shaft near parallel with the ground on a more lofted wedge. 

I actually don't have any idea on carry vs. rollout per club. I tend to go by feel, which is not a good thing. i need to do this.

[BMart519]

6 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I actually don't have any idea on carry vs. rollout per club. I tend to go by feel, which is not a good thing. i need to do this.

I'm sure you're familiar with wedge matrixes and knowing carry distances for full, 3/4 and half swing wedges for approach play. Carry vs roll is just as important from 30 and in (maybe even 50 yards) where you are not generating much spin unless playing a full lob or a specialized low spinner.

After you blade a 60 yard LW over the green and leave yourself another flop from 30 yards over the back (or fat it and leave it short), a 30 yard chip with a GW (or 20 yard 9i) starts looking like a good option.

Edited October 20, 2020 by BMart519