Dlow206 does away with double bogeys

[dlow206]

3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Hopefully they let you try different types of putters.  Also be aware that if you change putters SAM could also change the recommendation.   You can definitely get lot and lie fixed.   Looking forward to hearing what you find out. 

Also need to get the fitters opinion on length. After my lesson with Monte and what he called out about my lower body movement in my putting stroke, i've been working on trying to stabilize my lower body. what has helped is being bent over a littler more and gripping down on my putter (nothing crazy with the posture, but gripping down further than i would normally). gripping down on my putter how i do would result in what most would consider an absurdly short putter. 

[dlow206]

I guess I never closed the loop in this thread about my putter fitting, but i don't want to re-write what i had posted in another thread, so check out this thread if it is of interest

Regarding full swing work, I hadn't been out to the range or on the course for about three weeks due to the crappy weather in my area. While I hadn't hit any balls for three weeks until this past Sunday, I did practice some swing feels everyday, all related to what Monte has me working on. I didn't lose focus or try to work on anything else except for also making sure I grip the club how I intend to grip the club, which is something I need to always work on. No random youtube videos, no random ideas, etc. I also did quite a bit of indoor putting work, again working on what Monte had called out during my on-course lesson. 

So while the swing changes will take time to ingrain, I did see some immediate impact related to putting. Historically, I miss a lot of short putts that are 8 feet and under. I understand that from 8 feet, even Tour pros only make slightly above 50%, but I feel like my make rate was less than 10% (maybe a bit of overexaggerating). And I used to even struggle with the even shorter putts, like 4 footers. Because of this, I would have a lot of three putts per round. During my latest round, I made every putt within 6 feet. I don't expect to be that perfect during future rounds, but i do feel like i have made significant improvement.

Full swing wise, the swing improvements are starting to have some positive impacts on course, but still require a lot more work. Took a few videos yesterday and asked Monte for some quick feedback. He said it looks good, but arms are just a tad behind. I know where I need to be careful. There is a move where my lower body thrusts in the direction of the target (some combo of early extension and hip slide). That move starts to creep back in (aka one of the swing faults im working on fixing) and causes me to get a bit steep and then a lot of manipulation from there. 

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

34 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

I guess I never closed the loop in this thread about my putter fitting, but i don't want to re-write what i had posted in another thread, so check out this thread if it is of interest

Regarding full swing work, I hadn't been out to the range or on the course for about three weeks due to the crappy weather in my area. While I hadn't hit any balls for three weeks until this past Sunday, I did practice some swing feels everyday, all related to what Monte has me working on. I didn't lose focus or try to work on anything else except for also making sure I grip the club how I intend to grip the club, which is something I need to always work on. No random youtube videos, no random ideas, etc. I also did quite a bit of indoor putting work, again working on what Monte had called out during my on-course lesson. 

So while the swing changes will take time to ingrain, I did see some immediate impact related to putting. Historically, I miss a lot of short putts that are 8 feet and under. I understand that from 8 feet, even Tour pros only make slightly above 50%, but I feel like my make rate was less than 10% (maybe a bit of overexaggerating). And I used to even struggle with the even shorter putts, like 4 footers. Because of this, I would have a lot of three putts per round. During my latest round, I made every putt within 6 feet. I don't expect to be that perfect during future rounds, but i do feel like i have made significant improvement.

Full swing wise, the swing improvements are starting to have some positive impacts on course, but still require a lot more work. Took a few videos yesterday and asked Monte for some quick feedback. He said it looks good, but arms are just a tad behind. I know where I need to be careful. There is a move where my lower body thrusts in the direction of the target (some combo of early extension and hip slide). That move starts to creep back in (aka one of the swing faults im working on fixing) and causes me to get a bit steep and then a lot of manipulation from there. 

 

 

How’s the moi iron set working out for you?

[dlow206]

33 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

How’s the moi iron set working out for you?

They are working out ok, but maybe the playing length is a little long. But before I jump to any conclusion, im seeing a fitter tomorrow now that i have found a fitter that i trust a bit more than other fitters i have worked with in the past. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

They are working out ok, but maybe the playing length is a little long. But before I jump to any conclusion, im seeing a fitter tomorrow now that i have found a fitter that i trust a bit more than other fitters i have worked with in the past. 

Interesting. Curious what you are seeing to make you think length is off? Is it ball flight, something in swing/stance? Or something else?

For the fitting what’s your goal/plan? New irons at proper length? Same irons and find right length? Something else?

[dlow206]

9 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Interesting. Curious what you are seeing to make you think length is off? Is it ball flight, something in swing/stance? Or something else?

For the fitting what’s your goal/plan? New irons at proper length? Same irons and find right length? Something else?

The length comment is just not feeling comfortable over the ball, so i end up choking down a bit.

My goal with the fitting is to first get feedback from the fitter on length and lie angle. Its possible they are fine with my current set. The set I built plays a bit longer than I have typically in the past, so there is room to cut them down. Second is to see what graphite shafts fit me best or if i am good with what i have. Third, im not set out to buy new irons, but if something blows me away based on the fitting result, then i would have to consider.

Overall, broader than just this fitting, moving away from random ideas that i have to seeing what actually works best based on a good fitter and data. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

51 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

The length comment is just not feeling comfortable over the ball, so i end up choking down a bit.

My goal with the fitting is to first get feedback from the fitter on length and lie angle. Its possible they are fine with my current set. The set I built plays a bit longer than I have typically in the past, so there is room to cut them down. Second is to see what graphite shafts fit me best or if i am good with what i have. Third, im not set out to buy new irons, but if something blows me away based on the fitting result, then i would have to consider.

Overall, broader than just this fitting, moving away from random ideas that i have to seeing what actually works best based on a good fitter and data. 

Cool. Looking forward to seeing what the fitter says

[dnett]

On 12/20/2019 at 8:19 PM, dlow206 said:

My Background

I consider myself an "aspiring golfer", and am finally taking golf seriously. I first started playing golf at the age of 9, and was a pretty good golfer for a kid that age. My best score at that time was 96, which I considered respectable for being 9 years old. However, I only played for about a year or so and then focused on other sports and hobbies.

I then tried to pick up golfing again in my early 20s, but that lasted only for about a year as well. At that time I was shooting in the low 100s, worse than when I was younger. 

I am now 35 and am taking golf seriously. I started taking regular lessons at Golftec since August, but to date have still struggled with certain issues. My miss is low and left (pull and pull hook) and my short game sucks.

My Goal

My long term goal is to regularly shoot below 100 and eventually break into the 90s. I believe better course management and some semblance of a short game will get me into the 90s regularly. Developing more consistency off the tee and from the fairway will get me to finally break 90 someday. I am creating this thread to share my experience and also create accountability for myself.

I see this thread is a few weeks old, so you have probably already heard this. But given that you have reasonable athletic ability and coordination, and are committed to lessons and practice, I think you are setting your goals too low. Instead of aiming to break 90 "someday," I think you should aim to break 90 THIS YEAR! 

I say this because I have a son about your age. He is athletic and played high school baseball. But he didn't start playing golf until his mid to late 20s. I took him to the range and out on the course to show him the basics, but he never took a lesson and doesn't practice much. But within a year he was shooting mid to low 90s. You can do it too! Set higher goals! 

Edit: Wow! I just realized this thread is over two YEARS old. Not a few weeks. I guess I need to read more of the thread now. Hopefully my post is extremely unnecessary and you have by now far surpassed your original goals. 

Edited January 19, 2022 by dnett
additional comment

[Gopokes14]

Hey Derrick, I have read quite a bit of the comments on here and I think there's definitely a lot of great advice in different areas. I understand how hard it is to sort out what to do next and/or what to work on next. We all do it I'm sure. So, I'm not going to try to look at videos or act like I understand every nuance of someones swing and can find flaws in them. We have all seen some crazy looking swings that work well because they get back to impact position well enough to scoot the ball around a golf course with some level of skill and score well. So, I will tell you that I got the best piece of advice ever from old golf coach (didn't know this at the time) when I caught up with an old timer (I was early 30's and he was 75 or so) walking with a sunday bag and 7 clubs. He invited me joined him and I had a similar handicap to yours at the time. I had been playing about 5 years or so. I could hit it far but I never really knew where it was going. When we got done he had shot 78. I had probably shot around 90 or 91. I asked him what he thought I could work on. He said "I used to tell my players that they could lower their scores dramatically if they came to the course with a specific goal and plan to hit a certain # of GIR's" He said "You hit the ball far enough and I saw you 2 putt almost all of the greens we played today. How many greens in regulation did you hit today? I, of course, did not know. He went back through the round hole by hole with me and I hit 2. He told me that if I took every GIR and doubled it and subtracted it from a score of 95, I would be within a stroke or 2 of my actual score every time. 2x2=4 minus 95 is 91. This formula has worked 99.9% of the times I have tracked it (which is everytime I play). He said "How many GIRs do you think you could realistically hit out here next time you play?" I said probably 3 or 4 but not sure? He said " Ok. there are 4 par 3's, right? Can you hit 2 of those? You did it today, fyi. There are 4 par 5s, can you hit 2 of those? You get 3 shots to get home. Yes. Ok that's 4 right here!" He said "Don't forget, there are still 8 more par 4's that you could hit if you achieve that goal. Try to hit 5 next time and see how you do. That would give you an 85." So, I did it and have done it ever since. It works for me. I step on the tee box thinking of only one thing, get me in the fairway so I can have a crack at this green. The center of the green! I now shoot for all 4 par 3's and 5's in regulation. Thats 8x2=16 and I'm shooting 79 or 80. I have lowered my handicap dramatically with this thought process. Yeah, I work on whatever is ailing me in the pursuit of that goal. Short game, driver, approach shots etc.... But looking down the fairway at a cloud or top of a tree in the distance and then the center of a green as my target and not thinking too much about my stance or grip or swing plane, etc.... and just good "smooth tempo with stable head" and "go at this target" has helped me a lot. I hope it helps you too! Hit 5 greens next time, you'll definitely break 90.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Gopokes14

[dlow206]

25 minutes ago, Gopokes14 said:

Hey Derrick, I have read quite a bit of the comments on here and I think there's definitely a lot of great advice in different areas. I understand how hard it is to sort out what to do next and/or what to work on next. We all do it I'm sure. So, I'm not going to try to look at videos or act like I understand every nuance of someones swing and can find flaws in them. We have all seen some crazy looking swings that work well because they get back to impact position well enough to scoot the ball around a golf course with some level of skill and score well. So, I will tell you that I got the best piece of advice ever from old golf coach (didn't know this at the time) when I caught up with an old timer (I was early 30's and he was 75 or so) walking with a sunday bag and 7 clubs. He invited me joined him and I had a similar handicap to yours at the time. I had been playing about 5 years or so. I could hit it far but I never really knew where it was going. When we got done he had shot 78. I had probably shot around 90 or 91. I asked him what he thought I could work on. He said "I used to tell my players that they could lower their scores dramatically if they came to the course with a specific goal and plan to hit a certain # of GIR's" He said "You hit the ball far enough and I saw you 2 putt almost all of the greens we played today. How many greens in regulation did you hit today? I, of course, did not know. He went back through the round hole by hole with me and I hit 2. He told me that if I took every GIR and doubled it and subtracted it from a score of 95, I would be within a stroke or 2 of my actual score every time. 2x2=4 minus 95 is 91. This formula has worked 99.9% of the times I have tracked it (which is everytime I play). He said "How many GIRs do you think you could realistically hit out here next time you play?" I said probably 3 or 4 but not sure? He said " Ok. there are 4 par 3's, right? Can you hit 2 of those? You did it today, fyi. There are 4 par 5s, can you hit 2 of those? You get 3 shots to get home. Yes. Ok that's 4 right here!" He said "Don't forget, there are still 8 more par 4's that you could hit if you achieve that goal. Try to hit 5 next time and see how you do. That would give you an 85." So, I did it and have done it ever since. It works for me. I step on the tee box thinking of only one thing, get me in the fairway so I can have a crack at this green. The center of the green! I now shoot for all 4 par 3's and 5's in regulation. Thats 8x2=16 and I'm shooting 79 or 80. I have lowered my handicap dramatically with this thought process. Yeah, I work on whatever is ailing me in the pursuit of that goal. Short game, driver, approach shots etc.... But looking down the fairway at a cloud or top of a tree in the distance and then the center of a green as my target and not thinking too much about my stance or grip or swing plane, etc.... and just good "smooth tempo with stable head" and "go at this target" has helped me a lot. I hope it helps you too! Hit 5 greens next time, you'll definitely break 90.

Thanks for posting that. For GIRs, i go through interesting streaks. During my last round, I hit 4 GIRs in a row from holes 2 through 5. Overall on that front 9, i had 5 pars,  1 bogey, and then self destructed on the next three holes (triple bogey, double, double). 

[CarlH]

Read the post about GIR and score and remembered this:  

[dlow206]

Findings from my fitting:

• My T300 irons that are supposed to be 2 degrees flatter than stock are not much flatter at all than stock spec, according to the fitter
• The more upright the club, the more likely it is for me to miss to the right (the face wide open with a left club path). This doesn't intuitively make sense, because typically its talked about that too upright causes a left miss, but i am somehow reacting to how upright the club is that is causing me to keep face more open. This was tested with a T300 test club, first at stock spec, and then bent during the session by the fitter
• Mizuno Hot Metals performed the best, probably in part because that club was flatted than the T300 by a couple of degrees. No huge right misses with the Hot Metals
• Best fitting shaft was the Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff parallel tip shafts, not the CW taper tips. I believe the parallel shafts play a bit softer than the CW, but I need to do more research
• The T300 are really hard to bend. When the fitter was trying to bend the demo one, he could barely move it 1 degree

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 hours ago, dlow206 said:

The more upright the club, the more likely it is for me to miss to the right (the face wide open with a left club path). This doesn't intuitively make sense, because typically its talked about that too upright causes a left miss, but i am somehow reacting to how upright the club is that is causing me to keep face more open.

Correct all things being equal the ball would go left but your swing combined with the brains awareness knows this so your mind gets your body to react to avoid having the ball go left.

AMG talks a lot about how the body and mind react to the club face 

 

11 hours ago, dlow206 said:

My T300 irons that are supposed to be 2 degrees flatter than stock are not much flatter at all than stock spec, according to the fitter

Remember there’s going to be some tolerances from the manufacturer along with the possibility for tolerances in both the machines used and the person measuring.

This is why many recommend having the loft and low checked when irons arrive.

some are more sensitive to this than others. I’m usually more concerned with loft than lie and typically don’t get them checked unless something seems off on the range or course like I had with my sm8s that both the 54 and 60 were 2* weaker and 1.5* upright. The weaker was what I noticed in the course.

[dlow206]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Correct all things being equal the ball would go left but your swing combined with the brains awareness knows this so your mind gets your body to react to avoid having the ball go left.

AMG talks a lot about how the body and mind react to the club face 

 

Remember there’s going to be some tolerances from the manufacturer along with the possibility for tolerances in both the machines used and the person measuring.

This is why many recommend having the loft and low checked when irons arrive.

some are more sensitive to this than others. I’m usually more concerned with loft than lie and typically don’t get them checked unless something seems off on the range or course like I had with my sm8s that both the 54 and 60 were 2* weaker and 1.5* upright. The weaker was what I noticed in the course.

Yep, makes sense on the tolerances. The fitter at CC did make the statement that there was no way my T300 set was ever bent. I do agree that they were more upright than what 2 flat should have been, but when i measured myself at home, i see that they are flatter than stock spec, but not 2 flat. I think they were bent some but there is the manufacturing tolerances and then the human error with getting the iron perfectly aligned in the loft lie machine gauge when taking the measurements. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

37 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Yep, makes sense on the tolerances. The fitter at CC did make the statement that there was no way my T300 set was ever bent. I do agree that they were more upright than what 2 flat should have been, but when i measured myself at home, i see that they are flatter than stock spec, but not 2 flat. I think they were bent some but there is the manufacturing tolerances and then the human error with getting the iron perfectly aligned in the loft lie machine gauge when taking the measurements. 

Yeah, the downside of golf equipment. Not everyone using the same machines/methods and tolerances that in other industries would be laughed at. 

[dlow206]

My updates for the purposes of this thread are probably a bit boring, still working on specific items from Monte's lesson back from December, ingraining them, and learning to feel when i am doing it right vs. when i am reverting back to old movements. When I execute the new movements well, i love the shots that it produces. Appropriately (for my swing speed) high trajectory iron shots that are straight. Small draw with a driver. When i execute incorrectly, i tend to miss with an open face push-fade/slice where the swingpath is actually left but the face is really open. Note that this miss is not something new that was introduced by the swing changes that i am working on, its the same as the old miss. But now i know what body movements I am making that causes this issue and starting to get a better feel of delineating between the correct and incorrect movements. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

My updates for the purposes of this thread are probably a bit boring, still working on specific items from Monte's lesson back from December, ingraining them, and learning to feel when i am doing it right vs. when i am reverting back to old movements. When I execute the new movements well, i love the shots that it produces. Appropriately (for my swing speed) high trajectory iron shots that are straight. Small draw with a driver. When i execute incorrectly, i tend to miss with an open face push-fade/slice where the swingpath is actually left but the face is really open. Note that this miss is not something new that was introduced by the swing changes that i am working on, its the same as the old miss. But now i know what body movements I am making that causes this issue and starting to get a better feel of delineating between the correct and incorrect movements. 

Are you using his improvement plan package along with the lessons?

[dlow206]

44 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Are you using his improvement plan package along with the lessons?

Yes. i send in videos less frequently that i used to though. i probably used to send in videos too frequently in the past, and i better understand how and when to use check in videos vs. remote live lessons vs. online lessons that he offers. 

[dlow206]

Quick update. In a quick check-in with Monte, he called out that I am overexaggerating a portion of the movement that we are working on (overexaggerating in a bad way), so working on fixing that.

Other thing is, i have continued to NOT look at random youtube videos or random instruction videos, just focused on the items that i have intended to focus on and not gotten distracted. 

[dlow206]

This is a good depiction of the "recentering" move that Monte has me working on:

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

20 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

This is a good depiction of the "recentering" move that Monte has me working on:

 

 

Monte just like AMG who talk about recentering being huge part of what the best do both talk about the lead heel coming off the ground, not so much by just picking it up but via rotation in the swing forcing it to come ip. GG is also a recentering and heel off then ground style as well.

 Every coach I’ve seen that talks about feet, pressure movement, and recentering it’s about not having your feet feel like they are planted in cement because you can’t properly shift and pivot that way. 
 

Has Monte said anything to you about your feet movement and where pressure is in your feet during the swing? The reason I ask is in your swing videos it doesn’t appear that the pressure doesn’t change between heel and toe in either foot during the swing. 

[dlow206]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Monte just like AMG who talk about recentering being huge part of what the best do both talk about the lead heel coming off the ground, not so much by just picking it up but via rotation in the swing forcing it to come ip. GG is also a recentering and heel off then ground style as well.

 Every coach I’ve seen that talks about feet, pressure movement, and recentering it’s about not having your feet feel like they are planted in cement because you can’t properly shift and pivot that way. 
 

Has Monte said anything to you about your feet movement and where pressure is in your feet during the swing? The reason I ask is in your swing videos it doesn’t appear that the pressure doesn’t change between heel and toe in either foot during the swing. 

Not specifically about feet movement, but he also doesn't want me to work on too many things at once. The two things he has me focused on is recentering and also my arms getting too far behind on the downswing (out of sequence). The arms behind issue has been an issue as long as i can remember. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

30 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Not specifically about feet movement, but he also doesn't want me to work on too many things at once. The two things he has me focused on is recentering and also my arms getting too far behind on the downswing (out of sequence). The arms behind issue has been an issue as long as i can remember. 

What drills does he have you doing to work on recentering?

[dlow206]

31 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What drills does he have you doing to work on recentering?

It not a drill, its more of a swing thought about "move right, move left" with some other general parameters like if my trail leg gets too straight to the point of locking out, then i am overdoing it. i now need to focus on the arms getting too far behind on the downswing and i know what i need to work on in regards to that. 

[dlow206]

Still need to get some feedback from Monte, but I think my left arm was getting a bit stuck to the chest too long in the downswing, which was never an intention.

 

Was working on some arm movements thoughts from Monte's Broomforce to try to improve arm movement and sequencing on the downswing. I submitted an online lesson to Monte so will get his feedback. 

 

[dlow206]

Got my online lesson back from Monte. Said my recentering movement is looking good now, and that my main issue is arms are too far behind / out of sequence on the downswing (as i expected). He gave some checkpoints based on the video analysis to show where my arms and hands should be at a point in the downswing compared to where they are for me currently. That will help me better analyze my own recording swings to see if i am making improvements on this issue or if i am just doing the same thing. Also he gave a few ideas for drills as a starting point but is open to the student trying some of the other drills in his videos that are relevant from his videos. Not all drills/feels/intents will work for every student, so you have to find the one that works best for you. 

[Kenny B]

12 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Got my online lesson back from Monte. Said my recentering movement is looking good now, and that my main issue is arms are too far behind / out of sequence on the downswing (as i expected). He gave some checkpoints based on the video analysis to show where my arms and hands should be at a point in the downswing compared to where they are for me currently. That will help me better analyze my own recording swings to see if i am making improvements on this issue or if i am just doing the same thing. Also he gave a few ideas for drills as a starting point but is open to the student trying some of the other drills in his videos that are relevant from his videos. Not all drills/feels/intents will work for every student, so you have to find the one that works best for you. 

The videos are looking good.  I glad Monte saw the same thing as I did.    I was waiting for him to say it first!!  

I still see the arms starting down at the same time you start rotating.  As Monte has said, most ams can't get their arms in position quick enough.  I have to focus on starting my arms down while keeping my back to the target.  Feels weird at first, but the more I do it, the less weird it feels.  Once the arms drop a little, then I try to rotate as quickly as I can.  Not as quick as I should... I'm old, but my arms and body are synced up.

[dlow206]

12 hours ago, Kenny B said:

The videos are looking good.  I glad Monte saw the same thing as I did.    I was waiting for him to say it first!!  

I still see the arms starting down at the same time you start rotating.  As Monte has said, most ams can't get their arms in position quick enough.  I have to focus on starting my arms down while keeping my back to the target.  Feels weird at first, but the more I do it, the less weird it feels.  Once the arms drop a little, then I try to rotate as quickly as I can.  Not as quick as I should... I'm old, but my arms and body are synced up.

The way Monte explained the "arms behind" issue on the video analysis was really helpful because talked he also explained it in context of hand height at certain points in the downswing. For whatever reason, the hand height part resonated better with me. In the past, when trying to speed up the arms, i just end up speeding up the body along with it which means i am still out of sequence and arms behind, because my arms are pinned to my chest too long.

I now have a better idea on what needs to change besides just speeding up the arms. 

[stephenmatt]

Swing is looking good! A feel that has helped me with recentering recently is working into the trail heel as I push back when I start my backswing. Once you get the arms more in front of you the swing will be money!

[RollingGreens]

Have you been able to get to the course or to the range where you can see your complete shots? Just wondering if you are noticing more consistency with shots/distances with the improvements in your swing?