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Dlow206's Quest to Break into the 80s


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I've always had a struggle with my arms moving from impact to finish position. My arms tend to get narrow instead of extended, and I could never figure out why. I figured out that if I let my head release a bit sooner post impact, and have that intent in mind, everything moves a little bit better (arms, pivot, etc.). So was working on that today. Was also working on setting up with a very slight hip bump towards the target. That helps me get some pressure onto the right side during the backswing, otherwise I tend to stay too much on my left side.

The net of course limits the ability to see ball light, but the ball was coming off the face much stronger, with less effort. Sent a video for a quick check-in with Monte and he said swing is looking good, just need a little bit more knee bend at setup. 

 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

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Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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So I have realized, and its taken me a long time to realize, and I need to document it here. Anytime I struggle to make good swings (based on video), I need to check my grip. I don't mean everytime I hit bad shots, that part is expected. But if my swing starts getting too steep, I feel like its a lot of effort to make a good swing on camera, etc., I need to check my grip. Whenever one or both of my hands get too strong, it makes golf really hard for me. I can't play very well with too strong of a grip. I need to be closer to neutral. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
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Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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So @dlow206, how have your recent rounds been? Any improvements? Broken into the 80s yet? I am wondering if you may have a little paralysis by analysis, kinda like me and equipment. 

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9 minutes ago, rbsiedsc said:

So @dlow206, how have your recent rounds been? Any improvements? Broken into the 80s yet? I am wondering if you may have a little paralysis by analysis, kinda like me and equipment. 

Have had ups and downs recently, haven't had any sort of reliability with pitch and chips, that has hurt me a lot lately. 

Most of my swing faults are accentuated when my grip is off. Not saying that my scores will automatically improve from fixing my grip, my a faulty grip makes golf a lot harder for me. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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@dlow206 Has anyone ever looked at your posture?  In some of the videos of yours that I've seen, your shoulders and back are very rounded.  Don't know how old the videos that I saw were or if you're actually as hunched as you appear to be in the setup or not, but that can restrict your turn considerably.  Just an observation.  I'm not a swing coach, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once 🙂  

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13 minutes ago, CarlH said:

@dlow206 Has anyone ever looked at your posture?  In some of the videos of yours that I've seen, your shoulders and back are very rounded.  Don't know how old the videos that I saw were or if you're actually as hunched as you appear to be in the setup or not, but that can restrict your turn considerably.  Just an observation.  I'm not a swing coach, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once 🙂  

Hunched shoulders don’t really restrict the swing. Bad posture in golf is better than good posture. If it causes balance points to be off then that will have an impact on ability to turn.

In the videos I’ve seen of his the ability to turn isn’t an issue. It’s more of what Monte has pointed out in his recent lessons of where pressure is during the swing

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41 minutes ago, CarlH said:

@dlow206 Has anyone ever looked at your posture?  In some of the videos of yours that I've seen, your shoulders and back are very rounded.  Don't know how old the videos that I saw were or if you're actually as hunched as you appear to be in the setup or not, but that can restrict your turn considerably.  Just an observation.  I'm not a swing coach, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once 🙂  

 

26 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Hunched shoulders don’t really restrict the swing. Bad posture in golf is better than good posture. If it causes balance points to be off then that will have an impact on ability to turn.

In the videos I’ve seen of his the ability to turn isn’t an issue. It’s more of what Monte has pointed out in his recent lessons of where pressure is during the swing

As @RickyBobby_PR mentioned, a lot of the recent golf instruction talks a lot about the bad posture being good golf posture, like George Gankas and others. For me, I naturally have bad posture, so my natural posture aligns with what new age instruction is saying, so I just setup with my naturally crappy posture. The only thing Monte said specifically about my posture is sometimes I need a little more knee bend.

The main issues that Monte has pointed out are not getting pressure to the right side to start the swing, and then also overrun of arms at the top of the swing because my arms get jammed up to my chest.

My other main issue from my own observation as I mentioned a few posts up is when my grip starts getting sloppy (too strong), I start making weird manipulations in the backswing, get steeper than I would like in the downswing at times, stall hips on the downswing, flip, and all sorts of other problems. Having a more neutral grip, not too strong, not too weak, helps me swing better. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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1 hour ago, dlow206 said:

a lot of the recent golf instruction talks a lot about the bad posture being good golf posture, like George Gankas and others. For me, I naturally have bad posture, so my natural posture aligns with what new age instruction is saying, so I just setup with my naturally crappy posture.

It’s more of instructors going back to what the best players used to do. Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Greg Norman just to name a few that don’t have the late 90s/early 2000 type swing of straight backs and the restricted hip turn for power type swing. Even Monte uses the bad posture setup. He talks about tucking the hips like GG does in either his fundamental video or driver for dough 

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4 hours ago, dlow206 said:

 

As @RickyBobby_PR mentioned, a lot of the recent golf instruction talks a lot about the bad posture being good golf posture, like George Gankas and others. For me, I naturally have bad posture, so my natural posture aligns with what new age instruction is saying, so I just setup with my naturally crappy posture. The only thing Monte said specifically about my posture is sometimes I need a little more knee bend.

The main issues that Monte has pointed out are not getting pressure to the right side to start the swing, and then also overrun of arms at the top of the swing because my arms get jammed up to my chest.

My other main issue from my own observation as I mentioned a few posts up is when my grip starts getting sloppy (too strong), I start making weird manipulations in the backswing, get steeper than I would like in the downswing at times, stall hips on the downswing, flip, and all sorts of other problems. Having a more neutral grip, not too strong, not too weak, helps me swing better. 

Why does a stronger grip require you to pivot stall and flip to close the face if the strong grip promotes a shut face?

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23 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

Why does a stronger grip require you to pivot stall and flip to close the face if the strong grip promotes a shut face?

I am basically this player from the article:

"Finally, if the stronger top-hand grip does succeed in creating a closed club face, it often creates a “blocking action” at the bottom of the swing. Golfers do this to keep shots from going left, and use a hanging-back motion to give the club face some loft so they can hit it higher. This is the classic move of a “shut-to-open” player, who usually suffers severe toe hits in the process."

https://www.golfwrx.com/317096/the-problem-with-a-strong-grip/

My clubface with a strong left hand is completely closed at the top of the backswing. Sort of like DJ but not quite that much and for me its closed with a flat wrist, im not bowing. Also, I am a "slow hips" player, and to make that strong grip with closed clubface at the top work, i need to have good rotation and get more open at impact. When I try to get more open at impact on purpose, I tend to start hip spinning which is not good. 

I used to hit everything low and left with the closed clubface. After improving some aspects of my swing, i would try to hold on, and then flip the clubface a bit to add some loft or else the ball is not getting much air. Also, the quote above, is me to a tee, severe toe hits. 

Also, not everyone is the same, its just the way my body reacts to what is happening in my swing. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
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Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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Had my remote live lesson with Monte today on Facetime. He said my number one biggest issue is length of backswing, and things that I am doing to make the length of my current backswing. He explained that a long backswing in of itself is not a bad thing, but some of the stuff that I am doing to create my long backswing are causing issues. 

He had me make backswings where I felt like I was swinging back only to waist high. And feel like the backswing is very flat. I had mentioned that I was scared of my inside takeaway returning and he explained that its ok if the arms feel like they are moving inside and that improper wrist movement to start the backswing is the main cause of an inside takeaway. The "waist high" feeling swing plus the flatter feeling produced a full length backswing with better contact at impact. So ingraining that backswing is my number one focus, but Monte said that I need to continue recording the swing to make sure I don't start overexaggerating. 

 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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42 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

Had my remote live lesson with Monte today on Facetime. He said my number one biggest issue is length of backswing, and things that I am doing to make the length of my current backswing. He explained that a long backswing in of itself is not a bad thing, but some of the stuff that I am doing to create my long backswing are causing issues. 

He had me make backswings where I felt like I was swinging back only to waist high. And feel like the backswing is very flat. I had mentioned that I was scared of my inside takeaway returning and he explained that its ok if the arms feel like they are moving inside and that improper wrist movement to start the backswing is the main cause of an inside takeaway. The "waist high" feeling swing plus the flatter feeling produced a full length backswing with better contact at impact. So ingraining that backswing is my number one focus, but Monte said that I need to continue recording the swing to make sure I don't start overexaggerating. 

 

Looking good.  Club face in good shape.  How do you swing like that with your foot almost off the edge of the mat??

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2 minutes ago, Kenny B said:

Looking good.  Club face in good shape.  How do you swing like that with your foot almost off the edge of the mat??

Regarding the mat, I don't always do that, but occasionally do. Tends to happen when I am super focused on my swing. I need to move the mat back a bit, it starts sliding forward a bit over time. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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16 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Why does a stronger grip require you to pivot stall and flip to close the face if the strong grip promotes a shut face?

Dlow covers it pretty well in his reply. The body reacts to the clubface in transition/downswing in and effort to try and square the face and hit the ball straight.

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On 5/22/2021 at 10:44 AM, dlow206 said:

Had my remote live lesson with Monte today on Facetime. He said my number one biggest issue is length of backswing, and things that I am doing to make the length of my current backswing. He explained that a long backswing in of itself is not a bad thing, but some of the stuff that I am doing to create my long backswing are causing issues. 

He had me make backswings where I felt like I was swinging back only to waist high. And feel like the backswing is very flat. I had mentioned that I was scared of my inside takeaway returning and he explained that its ok if the arms feel like they are moving inside and that improper wrist movement to start the backswing is the main cause of an inside takeaway. The "waist high" feeling swing plus the flatter feeling produced a full length backswing with better contact at impact. So ingraining that backswing is my number one focus, but Monte said that I need to continue recording the swing to make sure I don't start overexaggerating. 

 

Congratulations on making Monte's Instagram post today!!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPOD7vRNaxD/

 

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14 hours ago, Kenny B said:

Congratulations on making Monte's Instagram post today!!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CPOD7vRNaxD/

 

Thanks, feeling a little bit famous now lol.

On a slightly related note, can't believe this thread on MGS has 18.6k views!

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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2 hours ago, dlow206 said:

Thanks, feeling a little bit famous now lol.

On a slightly related note, can't believe this thread on MGS has 18.6k views!

I'd say there's a lot of us who enjoy reading about your journey to get better and are rooting for you. 

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What are you doing to improve your scoring? Better technique and contact should lead to lower scores once the new swing holds up on the course. There are a lot of areas to drop shots below full swing and through course management. 

How many 3 putts and total putts per round do you average? What is your make rate inside 6' and 12'?
Do you have swings that produce carry distances of 5-30 yards in 5 yard increments with 2 different clubs for high and low trajectory greenside shots? What is your up/down%?
What is your system for 40-100 yard shots or any distance below your shortest full swing wedge?
How many penalties per round do you average? Are they usually off the tee or on approach?
How are you going to increase GIR? What are your scoring averages for par 3s vs 4s and 5s?
Which club leads to best scoring off the tee on par 4s/5s?

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7 minutes ago, BMart519 said:

What are you doing to improve your scoring? Better technique and contact should lead to lower scores once the new swing holds up on the course. There are a lot of areas to drop shots below full swing and through course management. 

How many 3 putts and total putts per round do you average? What is your make rate inside 6' and 12'?
Do you have swings that produce carry distances of 5-30 yards in 5 yard increments with 2 different clubs for high and low trajectory greenside shots? What is your up/down%?
What is your system for 40-100 yard shots or any distance below your shortest full swing wedge?
How many penalties per round do you average? Are they usually off the tee or on approach?
How are you going to increase GIR? What are your scoring averages for par 3s vs 4s and 5s?
Which club leads to best scoring off the tee on par 4s/5s?

So part of all my non-putting issues go back somewhat to what Monte said about my backswing arm overrun issue that Monte called out in my most recent lesson. You may ask how that applies to a chip or pitch? It goes back to awareness of swing length. The backswing during my lesson that felt "waist high" was essentially a sufficiently long backswing for a full shot. That "waist high" feel is essentially the same length I feel on my pitch shots, so that means my pitch shot backswing is likely way too long. I am definitely not intending it to be that long, and probably am decelerating to hit a short pitch shot. I am not Phil and am not trying to be Phil, so I can't take a full length backswing to hit a short pitch. So gaining awareness of my backswing length is overall priority number one, i consider it as a prerequisite to develop a more reliable short game as well. 

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current tester for the Titleist TSi Driver

Spring 2020 MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Updated 4/27/2021
Driver:titelist-small: TSi 2 - Graphite Design AD-XC 6S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Matrix Ozik 85S
Irons:srixon-small: ZX5 5 - PW - Accra 95 icwt S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Two Ball Ten S Tour Lines - 31"
 

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Going to be a long road if you need to sort out your full swing to learn how to chip and pitch. Below full swing is based on developing feels through repetition of hitting to known distances and learning roll out with consistent contact. A lot harder to dial in contact on full swings versus partial. 

The intention of my questions was to think of ways you could shave 1-2 strokes in each of those areas and allocate practice time. Like spending some time 1 day per week on putting distance control, another on short putts, another on greenside chips, and another on 40-100 yards. There's always going to be days where your full swing isn't firing 100%. Everything below full swing as well as mental game is going to be the glue that holds it together and raises the floor on your scoring. 

Another example would be speed/strength training, gain 5MPH clubhead speed and hit the ball 10-13 yards farther. Don't need to touch a golf club or use any golf "facility" to develop any skill or technique. Having 2-3 clubs less into a green pretty much guarantees higher GIR and lower scores provided you present the club the same way in terms of path and face relationships.

I'm sure you do a bunch of this stuff already, but all I remember through most of this thread is swing technique and if your #1 priority is breaking a scoring barrier - full swing technique is less than 50% of the overall picture. (I don't mean this in a SG perspective, before someone tells me SG OTT and Approach are like 60-70% of scoring.)

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