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Who Was in the Wrong.......?


Locharion

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On average, I can get my wife to play 2 rounds a year with me if I am lucky.  Unfortunately, this incident happened near the end of summer, and it really left a sour taste in her mouth.  Be honest, was I in the wrong, were the other golfers in the wrong, or was a lack of a marshall doing their job the problem?

We were playing as a pair on a fairly popular municipal 9 hole course for people with mid to high handicaps.  Because the course is fairly priced, you get a wide variety of players and abilities.  However, based on past experiences, I rarely have seen a staff member consistently out acting as a marshall. At about the 7th hole, my wife and I caught up with an older couple who were playing.   The man seemed decent, but his wife was atrocious; by atrocious, I mean it seemed like she was playing polo.  If I am playing 18, I would wait for them to finish a shot, hop in a cart, and just drive around them to the next tee to get ahead of them if we were not waved on.  But when you are just playing 9......

Anyway, my wife and I were playing best ball since she has some struggles. Our pace was fairly quick, and we didn't have anyone behind us.  I am standing at the tee, and I am watching the two of them take their sweet time.  I wave my hand and yell, "Can we play through?"  No response.  On a decent day, my drive is about 220-240, so I know roughly when I can drive and not hit into a group in front of me.  I think this lady takes three shots to even get it 150 yards in front of the lady's tee (70ish yards ahead of the whites).  Her husband is up on the green waiting for her to putt, and he is not hurrying her.  I look to see if they had a group in front of them that was slow, but I don't see anyone on the tee at 7.  She finally hits a shot that puts her 60-70 yards from the pin, so that leaves me about 260ish from where they are.  I have to hit first since my wife is playing from the reds, and I hit it solid.  The ball lands  and stops rolling about 15ish yards behind them.  I then watch my wife hit, and she gets a decent shot off.  When we get to my ball, they are still on the green not having putted out.  The man says, "Don't you think you are cutting it close?"  I said, "On my best day, I could not hit it to you. Please finish your hole so we can play our next shot."  The woman, who now starts telling me I need to learn golf etiquette.  I turn around, and I see a threesome standing on the tee box waiting for us.  I point back to them and say, "Please keep pace of play or wave us through.  We are starting to get backed up."  We stand for about another five minutes until they both hole out.  My wife plays where my ball is, and by the time we get set to putt, the group that is behind is has hit their drives, and another group is coming to the tee.   

On 8, there appears to be about a 180-190 downhill straight run before a big dogleg left uphill.  The husband has cleared the dog leg in two shots, but his wife is hacking away.  After her fourth shot, and she has not cleared the dog leg, the woman waves for me.  I wave back saying, "Thank you." and I wait for her to move to cover when I hit my shot.  However, the older woman does not hit her ball while my wife is driving, and she waits for me as I come down the hill to my ball.  "You hit into me!" she says.  I said, "You just waved me on to hit."  She keeps going on about how rude we are.  I ask her to finish the hole.   Now, my wife is miserable, and we have two groups standing on the tee box.

The tee box for 9 is right next to the green for 8, and when we finish, the older couple, who has no one in front of them, have not teed off yet.  The older man tells me that I hit into them back at 7, and I shouldn't have done that.  I point to the line that is now stacked behind us, and tell him to pick up the pace.  He said, "We had to wait on others, so you can wait on us."  I tell them to keep pace of play, and just walk past them.  When I don't respond to the further ramblings of the older woman, she walks about to my wife and says, "Your husband really needs to learn golf etiquette."  My wife joins me in the cart. 

When we finish the 9th hole, NOW the pro-shop attendant drives out and asks if there is a problem.  I figured the older couple pitched a fi when they left, and now I have to deal with it.  I calmly tell the pro-shop person what happened and how a backup was happening because these two would not wave us through and then slowed down pace more to argue with us including accosting my wife.   He didn't apologize for the experience or offer anything up to makeup for the experience when I politely stated to him that if a marshall had been on the course, this could have been avoided. My wife told me that may be the last time she plays with me.  I told her, "It will be the last time we play that course."

So, what in your minds, what is the halo rule that you follow for hitting a ball when there is a group in front of you?  If you are playing just 9 holes, do you just drive past the slower group that won't wave you on?  Do you call the pro-shop and ask them to handle it? 

Bag: :callaway-small: Diablo Red

Driver: :srixon-small: Z355 (10°)

Fairway Wood: :adams-small: XTD TI (15°)

Hybrids: :srixon-small: AD Hybrid (18°), :cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 4H Hybrid - 22°

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Ball: :srixon-small:(if new) but usually it is what I can find on the side, in the woods, or what I dig out of a lake with my grabber.

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Most courses and or personnel have zero clue about pace of play especially at munis so getting any enforcement won’t happen because they don’t want to upset their customers. I typically don’t say anything to the group in front of me. If I’m just out for a casual round of hitting  multiple balls per hole and not worried about score or playing all the holes I will just move around a group or groups if it’s not going to impact anyone else otherwise I let it slide and understand it’s going to be a long day. There are to many other things in life that are more important than me getting frustrated with slow play. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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I never hit into any one....... ever. If the group in front of me is hitting reasonably close to my landing zone I always wait regardless of how slow they are. It is always best to error on the side of caution.

1. I’ve never called the pro shop for any reason.
2. I’ll skip a hole then go back or play another hole twice.
3. Pace of play is the responsibility of all parties fast and slow. If I can I try to give slow groups some space by practicing a few putts or chips between holes.
4. I’ve found slow groups to not really be that slow it’s usually me moving to dang fast.


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We've had slow players in front of us and typically my wife and I will ask them if we can play through. It's not worth the aggravation of waiting or the loss of momentum.

FYI also because people are on a golf course it doesn't mean they understand golf etiquette.


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Honestly. I would have throttled back since you only had 2 holes left and tried to enjoy the time with my wife.
And no matter my pace be it fast or slow. If a tee shot lands that close to me. I'm saying something.
No need for that. No matter how frustrated you might be with the situation.

Tazz


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Ricky pretty much nailed it----- Most of the staff around her have no clue and could care less---- But I will say this most of them are told "do not piss off the tourists"

I had a incident a few years ago where some out of towners were slow playing with 3 holes open and the ranger had told them to speed up. I finally got fed up and went around them and cut one hole in front of them. I deliberately slow played them for 2 holes because they sped up after I cut in front of them. They complained to the Ranger who is a friend of mine. This ranger never cut any slack to the tourists. He told them "Well first off he is a full time local and is a long time member here so he can do as he pleases". I went back behind them and played a couple of holes after the Ranger told me what was said. Came back to the bag drop area where they had finished and were BS ing. They kinda gave me some glaring looks to which I replied "Being full time local and a member has it privileges" .  

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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Most courses and or personnel have zero clue about pace of play especially at munis so getting any enforcement won’t happen because they don’t want to upset their customers. I typically don’t say anything to the group in front of me. If I’m just out for a casual round of hitting  multiple balls per hole and not worried about score or playing all the holes I will just move around a group or groups if it’s not going to impact anyone else otherwise I let it slide and understand it’s going to be a long day. There are to many other things in life that are more important than me getting frustrated with slow play. 


Exactly!

If it were my club it would be a different matter - I’d call the clubhouse and someone would be out post haste - at a muni, even one that you frequent - not a chance

Enjoy the time with your wife, make sure the group ahead is beyond out of range or just skip ahead.


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You hit it within 15 yards, and never apologized, based on what you've written your words could only have exacerbated an already tense situation.  Too close!.  You apologize first, say you thought you had no chance to get close, but don't make that excuse, APOLOGIZE!  Then ask if they'd mind of you play through.  And if not, relax and enjoy.

 

(Edit)  I'm not saying the other folks are "right", they should have asked you to play through.  But there's no reason to hit a shot that close to them, and REALLY no reason to NOT apologize if you do.  Its possible for two groups to be wrong at the same time.

Edited by DaveP043

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Reston, Virginia

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I do agree with Middler in the fact it is never all right to hit directly into anyone. And yes I do have patience with beginners but proper learning of the game starts with proper etiquette. Where some of us get maybe what is seen as a bad attitude towards some of the slow play mess is the environment we live in. I think the Florida guys can relate to what I have to say. Being full time residents in a tourist area you run into a smug attitude from the tourists. Not just on the courses but in stores and restaurants as well. Most tourist golfers think they support the courses period and their poop does not stink. Like I have told some in the past yeah you "support" it maybe one time a year while us full time residents support it full time year round

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

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Thank you for your input on what should be expected vs. what shouldn't.  A couple of posters did somewhat address my original question while others did not.  I get that some of you are holding the position that even with a 45 foot space between where the ball stops and another group is, you consider that hitting into someone.  I can respect that. Please respond to the original question of what is the halo you go by then.  If it is a short par 4, do you wait until that group is near the green (50 yards in) before you hit your shot then? (over 300 yards past the tees in this case) I am not asking to be snarky, but to see what standard you believe is appropriate.

Bag: :callaway-small: Diablo Red

Driver: :srixon-small: Z355 (10°)

Fairway Wood: :adams-small: XTD TI (15°)

Hybrids: :srixon-small: AD Hybrid (18°), :cobra-small: Baffler Rail-H 4H Hybrid - 22°

Irons: :callaway-small: Diablo Forged Irons (Regular Flex) 5- AW

Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 54°, :755178188_TourEdge: 1 Out Sand Wedge 58° 

Putter: :755178188_TourEdge: HP Series Nickel 05  

Ball: :srixon-small:(if new) but usually it is what I can find on the side, in the woods, or what I dig out of a lake with my grabber.

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I think 45 feet is too close. If someone did that to me I'd be royally ticked off and would make a point of addressing it with the offender. I'd even consider 45 yds too close. My rule of thumb would be 100 yds or more away - wait for the group to get off the green.


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I'd wait until they had started driving to the green.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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@tony@CIC is absolutely correct.  15 yards is definitely too close for a full swing with a driver.  First of all, I can't judge 15 yards standing back on the tee a couple hundred yards away.  Then, god forbid they head backward for some reason and I don't notice it.  And what if I catch a sprinkler-head?  Not worth it.  I can't give you an actual yardage, but I'll wait until they're beyond a point I could ever possibly reach.

A buddy and I were playing a course I knew relatively well with a high school kid and his dad.  The kid was an excellent junior player from out of town, getting ready for an upcoming tournament.  On one hole he asked if the group in front of us was far enough out for him to hit.  We'd played a few holes by that point and I knew he was a good club longer than me.  The group in front was out of my range, so I told him he could hit.  He found a speed slot that I never knew existed and rolled it up to within 10 yards of the group in front of us.  They waited for us to get to our drives and started yelling at the kid.  I stepped in and told the guys that I told the kid he could hit, so it was my fault, and I apologized.  Then I asked them if they'd every been that far down that hole off the tee, they admitted that they hadn't, and they moved along.  And we made sure that they were well out of this kid's range before we let him hit another tee shot.

 

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11 hours ago, Locharion said:

Thank you for your input on what should be expected vs. what shouldn't.  A couple of posters did somewhat address my original question while others did not.  I get that some of you are holding the position that even with a 45 foot space between where the ball stops and another group is, you consider that hitting into someone.  I can respect that. Please respond to the original question of what is the halo you go by then.  If it is a short par 4, do you wait until that group is near the green (50 yards in) before you hit your shot then? (over 300 yards past the tees in this case) I am not asking to be snarky, but to see what standard you believe is appropriate.

Basically I use common sense judgement and if there is any doubt I will hold back. I would rather err on the side of caution. I have been playing long enough to know my game and distances even when I nut one. 

Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha  Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56*  Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick 

 

 

 G

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10 hours ago, cnosil said:

I'd wait until they had started driving to the green.  

Same here. I'm not a long hitter by any means, but I still figure better safe than sorry. 

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:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
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If there is a group in front of me on a par 3, I wait for them to clear the green, on a par 4, I wait till they are on the green to hit my drive, and on a par 5, I wait till they have hit their 2nd approach shots.

This does slow me down at times, but I would rather be slowed down then have to deal with potentially looking like I hit into them. 

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Quote

 On a decent day, my drive is about 220-240, so I know roughly when I can drive and not hit into a group in front of me. ....... She finally hits a shot that puts her 60-70 yards from the pin, so that leaves me about 260ish from where they are.  I have to hit first since my wife is playing from the reds, and I hit it solid.  The ball lands  and stops rolling about 15ish yards behind them.  

I don't know if there's a specific magic distance, but you were planning to get it close enough to them so that they'd notice.  You seem a bit defensive when you use "45 feet" to describe the distance, rather than 15 yards.  somehow the larger number makes is seem further, doesn't it?  How much did it roll, how close did you land it to them?  Its the sound of that impact that really bugs me if I'm the one ahead, seeing a ball roll to a stop isn't as scary.  A buffer of 30 to 50 yards might be my general plan, but the most important thing is safety.  The second most important is to be appropriately considerate.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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