2020 drivers!

[RickyBobby_PR]

21 minutes ago, PMookie said:

It’s interesting, sometimes, to see your post and think that you really might believe you’re the sole source for the information you present... The “hit it longer, so therefore less fairways hit” mention was done in Golf Digest a few years back, even with imagery, showing how the further one hits it, the better the chances to hit “through a fairway”, or go further offline. Yep. Millions of us read this story. What is interesting is that you said exactly what I said, dispersion should be reduced, yet you come back almost going away from that.
Here’s the deal: DJ, Rory, Zach Johnson for that matter, all should be benefitting from the new tech in heads that helps reduce dispersion. If dispersion is reduced, more fairways should be hit. Period. We should be seeing an uptick, because let’s face it, these dudes know their targets. They know exactly how far they can hit driver. They choose the line off the tee with this in-mind. A more forgiving head, decreasing dispersion, should keep the ball on that line they chose more often, and, therefore, hit more fairways.
We’re not seeing it.
What could REALLY be the reason this isn’t the case for them is that a LOT of times, the heads they play are different than ours, SO, it’s possible that their “hot melt”, weighting, set-up, less “twist-face”, etc, are the culprit.



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The funny thing is I don’t remember the last time I read a golf digest let alone an article from them.

fairways hit is a stat that needs context associated with it. For example look at Scott on 18 yesterday. He hits a the fairway the ball bounces rolls down the fairway and into the primary cut and ends up with a missed fairway. 
 

They are pros right so they should hit 14/14 fairways by your logic and should hit 18/18 greens because they can control their distances and stop the ball on commands. The tour avg is between 10/14. Have a day where the swing is off and the misses get accentuated. 
 

Again misses at 170+ ball speed on face and face to path are going to be wider than someone at 140 ball speed. 

 

[GolfSpy BOS]

Also to add, I remember seeing an article (can not remember where) showing how they’ll aim for the right side of the fairway and the right rough if they feel it gives them a better angle into the hole than the left side of the fairway does.

There’s a stat somewhere (total driving maybe) that takes into account how far into the rough they go. I’d wager that of the 40% of fairways Rory misses half are within the first 5-10 feet of rough. I know that’s certainly better than my misses in the rough.


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[RickyBobby_PR]

A better display of how accurate a pro is would be to look at their stats off the tee.

Rory improved in distance from edge of the fairway, a very small percentage I left rough tendency and actually dropped in rank on that stat and improved both right rough tendency and total driving 

[cnosil]

And we can always go down the path of strokes gained and say farther is better even if it is in the rough. So who cares about fairways if I can hit it farther. Unless you are in us open type conditions or got a really bad lie, the rough isn’t that big of a hindrance for a touring pro.

In my opinion dispersion is a person to person metric over time and may not be reflected by fairways or greens. If my previous dispersion was 50 yards wide and 10 yards deep and I reduce my width to 48 yards I am getting better distribution but may not hit more fairways; I may however be inside the tree line as opposed to in the trees.

[RickyBobby_PR]

50 minutes ago, cnosil said:

And we can always go down the path of strokes gained and say farther is better even if it is in the rough. So who cares about fairways if I can hit it farther. Unless you are in us open type conditions or got a really bad lie, the rough isn’t that big of a hindrance for a touring pro.

In my opinion dispersion is a person to person metric over time and may not be reflected by fairways or greens. If my previous dispersion was 50 yards wide and 10 yards deep and I reduce my width to 48 yards I am getting better distribution but may not hit more fairways; I may however be inside the tree line as opposed to in the trees.

Rory improved in several SG categories from 2018 to 2019. 
 

Based on Phil’s training with superspeed, his workout and diet plus his comments about not playing champions tour until he can’t hit bombs anymore his focus is on distance. 
 

He showed that at Torrey last week opting for driver on a short par 4 and going left both weekend days

[PMookie]

Fitting with the Honma rep set for Thursday. Going to see if we get the same results outside as we saw inside in Dallas a few weeks back. I’ve asked him to fit me for two shafts: one being what would be “stock”, and what would be best overall so I can see the numbers between the two to determine if extra money is worth it. May try the fairway if we have time as I’ve not hit theirs. Looking forward to it!


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[therod]

I watched the Rick Shiels video a few days ago on the new Cobra driver. And he compared it to the F9 from last year, which he called the best driver of 2019. With all other variables being the same, he hit the F9 a yard or 2 farther than the new Speedzone. So I wondered...maybe the Speedzone isn't necessarily longer than the F9, but maybe it's more forgiving and has a larger MOI. And that's where equipment is gaining in 2020 instead of distance. Maybe not, just thinking out loud...

[GolfSpy BOS]

I watched the Rick Shiels video a few days ago on the new Cobra driver. And he compared it to the F9 from last year, which he called the best driver of 2019. With all other variables being the same, he hit the F9 a yard or 2 farther than the new Speedzone. So I wondered...maybe the Speedzone isn't necessarily longer than the F9, but maybe it's more forgiving and has a larger MOI. And that's where equipment is gaining in 2020 instead of distance. Maybe not, just thinking out loud...

Stability seems to be more of a buzzword this year for sure.


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[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, therod said:

I watched the Rick Shiels video a few days ago on the new Cobra driver. And he compared it to the F9 from last year, which he called the best driver of 2019. With all other variables being the same, he hit the F9 a yard or 2 farther than the new Speedzone. So I wondered...maybe the Speedzone isn't necessarily longer than the F9, but maybe it's more forgiving and has a larger MOI. And that's where equipment is gaining in 2020 instead of distance. Maybe not, just thinking out loud...

For most who hit center or consistently near it the increase in speed will be minimal. More speed on off center hits and better dispersion from those is where most see improvements in year to year releases. Some gain SS and/or ball speed like matt from txg with m5 to sim. 
 

there’s no hard and fast rule to who will see improvements or what is significant as that varies by individual as well. It’s why so many say either go get fit or at least test to see what one gets and if it’s worth it to upgrade.

some just like shiny new toys even if performance is the same and nothing wrong with that either

[therod]

This is why me and my F7+ might be going to ClubChampion this spring. No better way to find out.

[PMookie]

Hmm. I wonder what I DID today????

 

 

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[cnosil]

31 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Hmm. I wonder what I DID today????

 

And?????

[PMookie]

Holy cow. Did the outdoor fitting with the Honma rep yesterday to confirm what I saw inside in Dallas. Yeah.... What I saw inside was seen outside. Just ridiculous.

A year ago, February, I was in Michigan, “home”, for work and did a fitting for a new driver at Miles of Golf in Ypsilanti, really HOME. I was fitted into the Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero 9* with a Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 7X shaft. I confirmed this yesterday by finding my numbers, and I was getting 282 carry out of that driver, beating what I was playing at the time. Well. Guess what my carry average was with the SZ yesterday? Yep. 282. Glad to see that, in a way.

We started with stock shafts so I could see if there was a big enough difference between those and upcharge shafts. I hit the Hzrdus Yellow, 7X first. I’ve never liked this shaft. Ugh. Feels horrible to me. I was hitting the ball all over the face. Next, Vizard 7X. A better feel, but higher spin and worse dispersion. Next was the best of the stock shafts for me, the Even Flow White 7X. Still spinny, and the dispersion was no better than mine, but I did get 5 yards more carry, 287 average.

Then came the shaft I ended with in Dallas: Ventus Black 7X. At this point, Bill, the Asst Pro at the club, had been watching me hit for awhile too. He used to be the Pro at my public course and has seen me play for 20 years. First swing with the TR20 460 head and Ventus Black... Boom. Distance jumped, flight was just what I like to see, and spin was 2200. Laser. Bill laughed! He said, “Paul, you’re done! Get out the wallet!” Shot two was the one that sticks out. Dead straight, long, just pretty, and the feel told me a second time that I hit the center of the face again. The rep said, “Guess what your side spin was.” I said, “250?” He said, “Zero.” Jeez. Hit three through 10 was the same. Even when I thought I missed it was staying online. Just sick.

We tried the Ventus Black 6X for giggles, but immediately lost dispersion. The Ventus 7X was it. Carry with Even Flow White was 287... Ventus was 294.5, so 295. Dispersion was silly, feel was incredible since I was hitting dead center, etc. For me, this set-up is significantly better than my Epic Flash SZ. 12-13 yards of additional carry, and so much straighter on the mis-hits. I’d take straighter even without longer! So, the Flash is up for sale, and I order the Honma TR20 460 today.

Folks keep saying, “New drivers can’t get you 10 more yards.” Well, sure, the stock shafts and TR20 heads didn’t for me because the way the shafts delivered; I couldn’t find center! The Ventus made a big difference in how it delivers to the ball, helping me find center. Is this always the case with a new driver head? No. But, for me, the TR20 460 and the Ventus Black 7X is a perfect match. Just worked out. Sometimes we find the right mix, sometimes we don’t, but just because one doesn’t find it one year, doesn’t mean it’s not possible! Watch TXG videos to see how Ian describes shafts and finding the center of the face. Matt doesn’t find center with every X flex shaft! They are made differently, and ultimately one will match your swing JUST RIGHT!



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[cnosil]

Holy cow. Did the outdoor fitting with the Honma rep yesterday to confirm what I saw inside in Dallas. Yeah.... What I saw inside was seen outside. Just ridiculous.

A year ago, February, I was in Michigan, “home”, for work and did a fitting for a new driver at Miles of Golf in Ypsilanti, really HOME. I was fitted into the Callaway Epic Flash Sub Zero 9* with a Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 7X shaft. I confirmed this yesterday by finding my numbers, and I was getting 282 carry out of that driver, beating what I was playing at the time. Well. Guess what my carry average was with the SZ yesterday? Yep. 282. Glad to see that, in a way.

We started with stock shafts so I could see if there was a big enough difference between those and upcharge shafts. I hit the Hzrdus Yellow, 7X first. I’ve never liked this shaft. Ugh. Feels horrible to me. I was hitting the ball all over the face. Next, Vizard 7X. A better feel, but higher spin and worse dispersion. Next was the best of the stock shafts for me, the Even Flow White 7X. Still spinny, and the dispersion was no better than mine, but I did get 5 yards more carry, 287 average.

Then came the shaft I ended with in Dallas: Ventus Black 7X. At this point, Bill, the Asst Pro at the club, had been watching me hit for awhile too. He used to be the Pro at my public course and has seen me play for 20 years. First swing with the TR20 460 head and Ventus Black... Boom. Distance jumped, flight was just what I like to see, and spin was 2200. Laser. Bill laughed! He said, “Paul, you’re done! Get out the wallet!” Shot two was the one that sticks out. Dead straight, long, just pretty, and the feel told me a second time that I hit the center of the face again. The rep said, “Guess what your side spin was.” I said, “250?” He said, “Zero.” Jeez. Hit three through 10 was the same. Even when I thought I missed it was staying online. Just sick.

We tried the Ventus Black 6X for giggles, but immediately lost dispersion. The Ventus 7X was it. Carry with Even Flow White was 287... Ventus was 294.5, so 295. Dispersion was silly, feel was incredible since I was hitting dead center, etc. For me, this set-up is significantly better than my Epic Flash SZ. 12-13 yards of additional carry, and so much straighter on the mis-hits. I’d take straighter even without longer! So, the Flash is up for sale, and I order the Honma TR20 460 today.

Folks keep saying, “New drivers can’t get you 10 more yards.” Well, sure, the stock shafts and TR20 heads didn’t for me because the way the shafts delivered; I couldn’t find center! The Ventus made a big difference in how it delivers to the ball, helping me find center. Is this always the case with a new driver head? No. But, for me, the TR20 460 and the Ventus Black 7X is a perfect match. Just worked out. Sometimes we find the right mix, sometimes we don’t, but just because one doesn’t find it one year, doesn’t mean it’s not possible! Watch TXG videos to see how Ian describes shafts and finding the center of the face. Matt doesn’t find center with every X flex shaft! They are made differently, and ultimately one will match your swing JUST RIGHT!



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I would have just taken the driver from the rep and told him to order himself a new one for the fitting van. I said this before, but in most wanted testing I felt the Honma clubs were some of the best.

Hope you enjoy the new driver.

[PMookie]

I would have just taken the driver from the rep and told him to order himself a new one for the fitting van. I said this before, but in most wanted testing I felt the Honma clubs were some of the best.

Hope you enjoy the new driver.

You know, I’ve heard that very thing online because all of the “acceptable tolerances” that club makers and shaft companies have. There’s a good chance that the shaft and head I get vary from what I demoed. Shouldn’t be drastic, but the loft on the driver could be as much as a degree off.


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[HardcoreLooper]

11 hours ago, PMookie said:

You know, I’ve heard that very thing online because all of the “acceptable tolerances” that club makers and shaft companies have. There’s a good chance that the shaft and head I get vary from what I demoed. Shouldn’t be drastic, but the loft on the driver could be as much as a degree off.


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I've been hearing it for years.  First time was an article about Jim Furyk "fitting" himself by ordering several copies of the same driver (same head, same shaft) from his manufacturer and testing them out to find the best one of the bunch.

I was at the old Callaway Golf Center in Las Vegas ages ago, hitting balls with my buddies.  They had the Hyper X as a loaner, so I grabbed one and hit it for the hell of it.  I absolutely loved it.  So I walked into the shop, grabbed a new one off the rack with the same shaft and loft, handed it to the guy behind the counter and told him that I wanted to buy the loaner, and they could put that new one in the loaner bin.  He started arguing with me and asked me why I wanted a used one instead of a new one that was exactly the same.  I told him that was because I wanted the club I was hitting.  I didn't want to take a chance on another one not being exactly the same, because... tolerances.  We went back and forth for a bit until his manager walked up, smiled, and rang me up.  Then he took the plastic wrap off the head of the new driver and put it in the loaner bin.

I played that driver for a long time.

[yungkory]

A little birdie told me there are new Titleist drivers releasing this fall 

[null]

9 minutes ago, yungkory said:

A little birdie told me there are new Titleist drivers releasing this fall 

Makes sense if titleist holds to their 2 year release cycle

[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, yungkory said:

A little birdie told me there are new Titleist drivers releasing this fall 

The birdie is partly right. Everyone knows the new drivers were coming this year as they are on year two of the release. They should be releasing in the summer similar to the t series irons. Titleist is trying to get clubs in the hands of consumers earlier than years past which is why the t series irons was released at the end of August vice mid to late sept.

 

[PMookie]

A little birdie told me there are new Titleist drivers releasing this fall 

Cool to know! Thanks! Can’t wait to buy the TS3 fairway at a discount!!!!

Titleist and Srixon this Fall... NIIIIICE!

 

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[Sluggo42]

I hit the 10.5 Mavericks last week ( the whole round) and it was pretty good but not amazing, stock stiff shaft “riptide”. But I liked the 3-wood a lot.

I hit my buddies new SIM 3 times today with a regular shaft (fake Ventus) and that club was seriously long. Then hit his 3 wood once, and it was stupid long again...

I hate to say it but it’s possible that my trusty G400 LST might be getting old. And my old callaway 816 alpha 3-wood as well.

i wonder what a fitted set of these new dingers would do... and, I haven’t even tried any of the other new stuff...

[Iowa Hacker]

Bought my first brand new Driver this year trading up from a Cobra F7. I hit TM, Cobra and Callaway. Went home with a new Mavrik 9 degree Regular Shaft. I loved the way it felt off the face and I added probably 10-15 MPH ball speed over the F7. I did not like the look and feel of the TM SIM at all. The Mavrik just felt better in my hand than the Cobra. Now if the weather will cooperate I can swing it outside and see If it helps me as much as I hope.

[tschott4]

I was wondering if anyone has tried the new Tour Edge driver that is out this year? I've always liked their equipment and was hoping to give this driver a try