How much difference in your swing speed

[tony@CIC]

Just curious if you track swing speed differences between your different clubs, i.e. differences between driver, woods, irons, etc. If so what is the SS differential between the clubs. 

I know there's a table that correlates Driver SS to distance, but haven't seen one for the other clubs.  I'm sort of an analytical nut so I've got a spreadsheet for different clubs with SS, ball speed, carry, etc.and am looking to have a benchmark for everything else besides my driver. 

[THEZIPR23]

1 minute ago, tony@CIC said:

Just curious if you track swing speed differences between your different clubs, i.e. differences between driver, woods, irons, etc. If so what is the SS differential between the clubs. 

I know there's a table that correlates Driver SS to distance, but haven't seen one for the other clubs.  I'm sort of an analytical nut so I've got a spreadsheet for different clubs with SS, ball speed, carry, etc.and am looking to have a benchmark for everything else besides my driver. 

Go to trackman website. They have one for tour pros and LPGA not sure if there is one for "average" or not. 

[tony@CIC]

1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Go to trackman website. They have one for tour pros and LPGA not sure if there is one for "average" or not. 

thx

[PMookie]

thx

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[LeftyHawk]

WOW...looking at the carry distance of the pro's I'm only about 50 yards short on all my clubs of being a Pro!!!  Who knew.....LOL........(in my dreams) Thanks PMookie for the chart.

Chris

[fixyurdivot]

On 1/3/2020 at 11:37 AM, tony@CIC said:

Just curious if you track swing speed differences between your different clubs, i.e. differences between driver, woods, irons, etc. If so what is the SS differential between the clubs. 

I know there's a table that correlates Driver SS to distance, but haven't seen one for the other clubs.  I'm sort of an analytical nut so I've got a spreadsheet for different clubs with SS, ball speed, carry, etc.and am looking to have a benchmark for everything else besides my driver. 

Tony.  I did use my Swing Caddie quite a bit when I first got my new irons to establish yardages but never paid much attention to swing speed.  I'm still not a buyer in the swing fast market.  No argument faster club speed = further distance, but I find a like relationship between faster swings and lower accuracy (which also yields more inconsistent yardages).  For me personally, ball control (low dispersion) and consistent yardage is when I score best.  Are you looking at starting a swing speed training program?

 

[cnosil]

17 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

Tony.  I did use my Swing Caddie quite a bit when I first got my new irons to establish yardages but never paid much attention to swing speed.  I'm still not a buyer in the swing fast market.  No argument faster club speed = further distance, but I find a like relationship between faster swings and lower accuracy (which also yields more inconsistent yardages).  For me personally, ball control (low dispersion) and consistent yardage is when I score best.  Are you looking at starting a swing speed training program?

 

Agree.   There is a balance point that has to be achieved.    Swinging faster will lead to more distance,  but also wider misses with the same clubface control meaning with the same swing characteristics and only changing speed a 1 degree open face on a 90MPH swing will be closer to a centerline than a 1 degree open 100MPH swing.     If you struggle with impact location and face control,  you should probably target those areas first since more center contact will result in more distance (and more consistent distance)

[tony@CIC]

Tony.  I did use my Swing Caddie quite a bit when I first got my new irons to establish yardages but never paid much attention to swing speed.  I'm still not a buyer in the swing fast market.  No argument faster club speed = further distance, but I find a like relationship between faster swings and lower accuracy (which also yields more inconsistent yardages).  For me personally, ball control (low dispersion) and consistent yardage is when I score best.  Are you looking at starting a swing speed training program?
 

I've worked really hard at accuracy/dispersion over the past two years. Part of that worked involved an intentionally slower swing speed to achieve results. I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at now (accuracy/dispersion) so looking to establish some benchmarks for swing speed and incremental SS improvements. To that end; what I'm trying to establish and the purpose of this posting is the relationship to driver. So using as an example of a 90mph driver swing speed what should the differential be for woods, hybrids, long irons, etc.

So yes I'm looking to start a higher swing speed program. That's a long answer to your question. However, I have a very methodical program planned with the objective of SS improvement without losing accuracy. I'm very familiar with the work on this forum related to SS, but yet to see what the specific targets should be other than just a higher swing speed.




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[fixyurdivot]

So I just need to find pros on the very far left side of the bell curve, limit them to a 3 wood off the tees, and make them wear their shoes sockless and backwards .

[fixyurdivot]

6 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

I've worked really hard at accuracy/dispersion over the past two years. Part of that worked involved an intentionally slower swing speed to achieve results. I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at now (accuracy/dispersion) so looking to establish some benchmarks for swing speed and incremental SS improvements. To that end; what I'm trying to establish and the purpose of this posting is the relationship to driver. So using as an example of a 90mph driver swing speed what should the differential be for woods, hybrids, long irons, etc.

So yes I'm looking to start a higher swing speed program. That's a long answer to your question. However, I have a very methodical program planned with the objective of SS improvement without losing accuracy. I'm very familiar with the work on this forum related to SS, but yet to see what the specific targets should be other than just a higher swing speed.




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Keep us posted on how that progresses. I still need to get phase 1 stable before worrying about increased swing speed.

[BMart519]

On 1/5/2020 at 8:44 AM, cnosil said:

Agree.   There is a balance point that has to be achieved.    Swinging faster will lead to more distance,  but also wider misses with the same clubface control meaning with the same swing characteristics and only changing speed a 1 degree open face on a 90MPH swing will be closer to a centerline than a 1 degree open 100MPH swing.     If you struggle with impact location and face control,  you should probably target those areas first since more center contact will result in more distance (and more consistent distance)

As you mentioned above, a 160 yard 6 iron will be less offline if the club is delivered the same way as a 6 iron that travels 180 yards. This point of view is only relevant from the tee - the guy who hits it 350 can hit it further into trouble than they guy that hits is 200... However, Mark Broadie's work on Strokes Gained off the tee shows that amateurs save about 0.3 strokes/hole for every 20 yards longer they are off the tee. And this is more of a benefit for amateurs than pros. 

If you have a 10 MPH difference in swing speed, that means from any approach distance into the green you hit 1-2 clubs less which will increase backspin. The corresponding improvement in spin loft will reduce side to side dispersion if the club face is open/closed then same amount in degrees. (If you change your 160 yard 6 iron into a 160 yard 8 iron, the 8 iron will be more accurate all other things equal, not too mention the ease of handling a shorter club). 

If you read any of Adam Young's work, he has some interesting opinions on trying to manipulate the club face by 1 or 2 degrees or any other miniscule adjustments. For people with no

[cnosil]

1 hour ago, BMart519 said:

As you mentioned above, a 160 yard 6 iron will be less offline if the club is delivered the same way as a 6 iron that travels 180 yards. This point of view is only relevant from the tee - the guy who hits it 350 can hit it further into trouble than they guy that hits is 200... However, Mark Broadie's work on Strokes Gained off the tee shows that amateurs save about 0.3 strokes/hole for every 20 yards longer they are off the tee. And this is more of a benefit for amateurs than pros. 

If you have a 10 MPH difference in swing speed, that means from any approach distance into the green you hit 1-2 clubs less which will increase backspin. The corresponding improvement in spin loft will reduce side to side dispersion if the club face is open/closed then same amount in degrees. (If you change your 160 yard 6 iron into a 160 yard 8 iron, the 8 iron will be more accurate all other things equal, not too mention the ease of handling a shorter club). 

If you read any of Adam Young's work, he has some interesting opinions on trying to manipulate the club face by 1 or 2 degrees or any other miniscule adjustments. For people with no

It is relevant for all clubs,  not just a driver.  if it just how angles work the farther you go down the line, the farther you are off center.     Mark Broadie's work isn't relevant to that discussion.  Yes,  when comparing 2 equivalent players the one that hits the ball longer will generally score better than the player that is shorter.  It does not mean that if you hit the ball 2 yards longer you will save strokes.     

While shorter more lofted clubs reduce sidespin,  a 1 degree open or closed face will still go farther offline the farther you hit it given that the path and face angle are equal.  

Lets look at putting as a comparison.  Hit a straight putt with a 1* open face,  you would still hit the cup on a a 5 footer but completely miss the cup on  an 8 footer.    How hard you hit the ball doesn't change this fact.  

when looking at moving the ball left to right or right to left,  the amount of curve is based on how open or closed the face is to the path.  

I never said that anyone needed to change anything only that if you increase your swing speed and nothing else changes,  you will be more offcenter that you were previously.  

[THEZIPR23]

21 hours ago, cnosil said:

I never said that anyone needed to change anything only that if you increase your swing speed and nothing else changes,  you will be more offcenter that you were previously.  

While this is true, it has been statistically proven numerous times that longer is better. In a vacuum, the distance you pick up will be better than any accuracy lost. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 1/3/2020 at 1:37 PM, tony@CIC said:

Just curious if you track swing speed differences between your different clubs, i.e. differences between driver, woods, irons, etc. If so what is the SS differential between the clubs. 

I know there's a table that correlates Driver SS to distance, but haven't seen one for the other clubs.  I'm sort of an analytical nut so I've got a spreadsheet for different clubs with SS, ball speed, carry, etc.and am looking to have a benchmark for everything else besides my driver. 

At TXG last year Ian told me there should be a 20% difference between your 7 iron and Driver swing speed.   

My 7 iron at the time was 73 MPH and driver was 88 so I was pretty spot on. 

 

[cnosil]

While this is true, it has been statistically proven numerous times that longer is better. In a vacuum, the distance you pick up will be better than any accuracy lost. 

I never disagreed with that.

[tony@CIC]

13 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

At TXG last year Ian told me there should be a 20% difference between your 7 iron and Driver swing speed.   

My 7 iron at the time was 73 MPH and driver was 88 so I was pretty spot on. 

 

Interesting. That 20% differential is pretty close to mine. 

[palvord]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:52 AM, tony@CIC said:

Interesting. That 20% differential is pretty close to mine. 

I've never heard the 20% guideline before, but it make sense as my driver SS was 99.3 in my Cobra club fitting and my 7iron was 83.4 

[Golfspy_CG2]

On 1/22/2020 at 7:52 AM, tony@CIC said:

Interesting. That 20% differential is pretty close to mine. 

 

11 minutes ago, palvord said:

I've never heard the 20% guideline before, but it make sense as my driver SS was 99.3 in my Cobra club fitting and my 7iron was 83.4 

He is a very smart man...afterall! 

[palvord]

Just now, Golfspy_CG2 said:

 

He is a very smart man...afterall! 

Oh, no doubt about that!