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Taylormade SIM drivers - Thoughts?


JonMUSC08

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4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


Can’t answer if the riptide is an authentic or made for in the callaway line. We know the Ventus in the TM line is made for. Would have to compare side by side; I looked at the TM Ventus and didn’t notice the missing verbiage

 

That's because taylormade and fujikura intentionally made it look identical. 

Scummy move 

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23 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


Can’t answer if the riptide is an authentic or made for in the callaway line. We know the Ventus in the TM line is made for. Would have to compare side by side; I looked at the TM Ventus and didn’t notice the missing verbiage

 

Riptide is going to be a stock offering in the sim so unless they have a made for shaft for Callaway and another for Tm should be the “stock” hzrdus offering 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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32 minutes ago, jlukes said:

That's because taylormade and fujikura intentionally made it look identical. 

Scummy move 

The more I think of it, this is more Scummy by Fujikura than anything else. Cheapens their own brand. 

Why offer something with Ventus on it if it doesn't contain the "groundbreaking" tech that makes the actual Ventus great 

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Here’s the deal: we KNOW folks are gonna gripe, right? So, let’s just let them gripe and then not follow it up with another year of, “Jeez! Stop complaining.”

 

It’s automatic. One person complains, then we all jump-in and say stop. They do it, we do it. Let’s be better in 2020!

 

I vow to address the findings specifically with folks who cry “foul”.

 

Such as: In the TXG video with the TM guy, they talk about the subtle changes to the face, bulge and roll, where they put the cone, etc. How these will lead to small changes like less spin-drop from a high-face strike, etc.

 

Steer the conversation back to what the manufacturer talks about, and then we start to have less griping from both sides, AND a better conversation about the tech, etc. The first two pages are just us going back-and-forth. Let’s change for 2020! We can DO IT!!!

“Control what you can control. The rest is just noise.”

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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4 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Here’s the deal: we KNOW folks are gonna gripe, right? So, let’s just let them gripe and then not follow it up with another year of, “Jeez! Stop complaining.”

It’s automatic. One person complains, then we all jump-in and say stop. They do it, we do it. Let’s be better in 2020!

I vow to address the findings specifically with folks who cry “foul”.

Such as: In the TXG video with the TM guy, they talk about the subtle changes to the face, bulge and roll, where they put the cone, etc. How these will lead to small changes like less spin-drop from a high-face strike, etc.

Steer the conversation back to what the manufacturer talks about, and then we start to have less griping from both sides, AND a better conversation about the tech, etc. The first two pages are just us going back-and-forth. Let’s change for 2020! We can DO IT!!!
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Agree and there should be official threads started by mods. Otherwise you get threads like this were someone starts a thread about new equipment and then immediately bashes it in the opening post. 

When a thread starts with those sort of comments, it doesn't lead to discussion about the driver because the person who started their thread never wanted it to be be about the tech or subtle improvement about the driver they wanted it to be about their take. 

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I can speak to this Driver. Been gaming a M6 for little over a year with Tensei shaft. Was at my fitter last week for a wedge fitting. He had the Sim Max on his desk. Long story short....It's been in my bag mated to a "real" Ventus Blue Shaft (not the stock shaft) and I've hit it quite a bit. First, don't care what the bottom looks like....because I can't see it at address. Second, the new color scheme is sick and I really like it. Can't say it's a LOT better than the M6 or that it'll make anyone longer off the tee....what I can say is that it has a different feel and sound when hit and I'm getting more carry over the M6. Haven't done significant testing driver vs driver because course has been really wet and haven't had the time.

I can say....if your in the market for a new driver....you should test drive it. It appears to be the real deal. Lastly, if you're one of those guys that just likes the "new" stuff and can afford it...knock yourself out and buy it. Don't think there'll be any buyers remorse on this one. This one will more than likely remain in my bag.

Anyone in the market for a nice M6?

 :titleist-small: TSR2 - Ventus Red, 6X

 :titleist-small: TSR2 3W - Ventus Red, 7X

 :titleist-small: TSR2 5W - Ventus Red TR, 8X

 :mizuno-small: JPX 223 Tour PW-7i/JPX 223 Forged 6i-4i - Nippon Modus 130X

 :taylormade-small: MG3 - 50, 54, 58* -  Nippon Modus 130X

 :scotty-small: Scotty Cameron Circle T Futura X5 

 :titleist-small: Titleist Prov1

 

 

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2 hours ago, jlukes said:

That's because taylormade and fujikura intentionally made it look identical. 

Scummy move 

When I looked at the page on the TM website and saw the shafts offered for the Max I let out a disappointing "oh" and left the page. I thought the era of made-for shafts was dead, kind of off-putting for me, but I still want to hit it.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S

3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105

Putter: LAB Link.1

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

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56 minutes ago, yungkory said:

When I looked at the page on the TM website and saw the shafts offered for the Max I let out a disappointing "oh" and left the page. I thought the era of made-for shafts was dead, kind of off-putting for me, but I still want to hit it.

Most of the golfing public won’t know it’s a made for or would they be able to tell the difference between the real deal and the made for. Also the made for market never really died. With the way brands design heads shaft manufacturers have to work with them to get their new designs setup and able to be used with drivers. Tm head and Callaway head have different properties and thus the same shaft may not work in both heads. 
 

ping has been using made for shafts forever. They ping your shaft is built off the elements chrome shaft.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, jlukes said:

Agree and there should be official threads started by mods. Otherwise you get threads like this were someone starts a thread about new equipment and then immediately bashes it in the opening post. 

When a thread starts with those sort of comments, it doesn't lead to discussion about the driver because the person who started their thread never wanted it to be be about the tech or subtle improvement about the driver they wanted it to be about their take. 

If we’re going to eliminate personal opinion from the MGS forums then I’m out.

The OP’s post was a subjective take on a new release that falls in-line with what a lot of other golfers see in the new SIM drivers. However, thanks to the input of those paying closer attention, both @JonMUSC08 and myself stand corrected and admitted as much. This is the way it should be IMO.

If you want to talk about tech, then talk about tech. No one is stopping you from steering the discussion in a different direction, but the only way for the cycle of perceived bashing and rebuttal to stop is for someone to take the reigns and do something different. These types of threads do and will continue to exist in spite of any “official” threads created by mods.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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11 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Most of the golfing public won’t know it’s a made for or would they be able to tell the difference between the real deal and the made for. Also the made for market never really died. With the way brands design heads shaft manufacturers have to work with them to get their new designs setup and able to be used with drivers. Tm head and Callaway head have different properties and thus the same shaft may not work in both heads. 
 

ping has been using made for shafts forever. They ping your shaft is built off the elements chrome shaft.

Truthfully, most of the golfers out there might not even know the story about Ventus shafts to even care that it’s printed on there. I think it has much more to do with simply matching the appearance of what we see the pros hitting.

I thought MGS published an article on factory shafts a year or two ago that stated Ping shafts were more of a co-engineered type of deal and not quite the standard “made for” agreement. Maybe I’m misremembering again?

Edited by TR1PTIK

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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7 hours ago, cnosil said:

I hit the SIM about 6 times. Looks like the other TM drivers; I don’t personally care what the bottom looks like. Will provide some additional thoughts when it comes into my most wanted testing rotation. My current thought is it isn’t any better or worse than any other driver, If you are just picking it up of the shelf. Comes with a Ventus shaft so people will pick it up simply because Of the shaft. I have been told it is a made for Ventus shaft.

It's really disappointing that it looks and is being called a Ventus shaft when it isn't really A Ventus shaft.  I'm glad that Tony called that out on the main blog.  The article on WRX just states Ventus Blue 6 and Red 5.  No mention of the change in the shaft materials.  THAT is why I started coming here, and while I'll stay with this site.  

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Most of the golfing public won’t know it’s a made for or would they be able to tell the difference between the real deal and the made for. Also the made for market never really died. With the way brands design heads shaft manufacturers have to work with them to get their new designs setup and able to be used with drivers. Tm head and Callaway head have different properties and thus the same shaft may not work in both heads. 
 

ping has been using made for shafts forever. They ping your shaft is built off the elements chrome shaft.

The difference with PING on the tour shafts is that it has PING written all over it, not Elements Chrome.  It's close to the same, but looks different.  Its not pretending to be a Elements Chrome.

When Cally came out with that T800 shaft it looked exactly like the T1100, It was different, but looked the same.  It was pretending to be a T1100.

This Ventus looks like a Ventus, but is missing a lot of the tech in the real Ventus.  Its pretending to be a Ventus.

I think for a lot of people, myself included, its the "Look-alike" examples that need to be corrected with the industry.  Give it its own name, or color, or something to show consumers it is not the same as the one you would get from the shaft manufacturer.  

I agree with you that the general golfing public will have no idea... and that is why a lot of people get upset.  They think they have something they don't.

I think they article that was posted here is fantastic:  https://mygolfspy.com/made-for-shafts-a-closer-look/

 

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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I like what TaylorMade is going for with the SIM line. The sole design could definitely use some smoothing out in my opinion.

I'm more curious why the SIM Max fairways and hybrid aren't getting an adjustable loft/lie sleeve. I don't get that one at all.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind)

PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE

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3 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

Truthfully, most of the golfers out there might not even know the story about Ventus shafts to even care that it’s printed on there. I think it has much more to do with simply matching the appearance of what we see the pros hitting.

I thought MGS published an article on factory shafts a year or two ago that stated Ping shafts were more of a co-engineered type of deal and not quite the standard “made for” agreement. Maybe I’m misremembering again?

It could be for most brands where they tell the shaft companies what they want and they design it off the shaft the brand wants to use. Hzrdus black but not as stout as a example, but from my understanding ping used the elements chrome and then design around that to get the tour shaft then send specs to ust

2 hours ago, B.Boston said:

The difference with PING on the tour shafts is that it has PING written all over it, not Elements Chrome.  It's close to the same, but looks different.  Its not pretending to be a Elements Chrome.

When Cally came out with that T800 shaft it looked exactly like the T1100, It was different, but looked the same.  It was pretending to be a T1100.

This Ventus looks like a Ventus, but is missing a lot of the tech in the real Ventus.  Its pretending to be a Ventus.

I think for a lot of people, myself included, its the "Look-alike" examples that need to be corrected with the industry.  Give it its own name, or color, or something to show consumers it is not the same as the one you would get from the shaft manufacturer.  

I agree with you that the general golfing public will have no idea... and that is why a lot of people get upset.  They think they have something they don't.

I think they article that was posted here is fantastic:  https://mygolfspy.com/made-for-shafts-a-closer-look/

 

Yes there is the difference between what ping does and looks like but my point was that made for has existed without the knowledge of a large portion of the golfing public knowing it, including the more educated internet golfer.

fujikura has been a brand that has done made for without changing the color schemes like the Atmos line. 
 

Not sure I understand the bolder part since the made for comes from manufacturer just like the aftermarket one, just has different specs 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

It could be for most brands where they tell the shaft companies what they want and they design it off the shaft the brand wants to use. Hzrdus black but not as stout as a example, but from my understanding ping used the elements chrome and then design around that to get the tour shaft then send specs to ust

Yes there is the difference between what ping does and looks like but my point was that made for has existed without the knowledge of a large portion of the golfing public knowing it, including the more educated internet golfer.

fujikura has been a brand that has done made for without changing the color schemes like the Atmos line. 
 

Not sure I understand the bolder part since the made for comes from manufacturer just like the aftermarket one, just has different specs 

Atmos was made for. Atmos Tour Spec wasn't. 

 

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Yes there is the difference between what ping does and looks like but my point was that made for has existed without the knowledge of a large portion of the golfing public knowing it, including the more educated internet golfer.
fujikura has been a brand that has done made for without changing the color schemes like the Atmos line. 
 
Not sure I understand the bolder part since the made for comes from manufacturer just like the aftermarket one, just has different specs 


Good points. I’m ok with made-for but if you’re making a made for Ventus it shouldn’t be called Ventus Blue.. maybe have it be the Ventus Green or Gray, which would show buyers it’s in the “Ventus” family but it is not the $350 Ventus Blue you see on tour, but maybe has a similar profile with a friendlier flex for normal golfers.

And at least fujikura had previously used the “tour-spec” label to show the premium offerings and had all the versions of the atmos line on their website. You can still see different pages for Atmos and Atmos Tour Spec along with the different Curves. I’m not sure we are going to see These Venti on their site in their own category like that.






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:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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Gotcha @RickyBobby_PR. Thanks for the clarification. I’ve used Made for Titleist shafts in the past - before I truly knew what it meant - so I get what you’re saying. Knowing what I do now though, I’d be more okay with companies taking up this practice again rather than trying so hard disguise what they’re doing to better deceive consumers.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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37 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Atmos was made for. Atmos Tour Spec wasn't. 

 

 

27 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

 


Good points. I’m ok with made-for but if you’re making a made for Ventus it shouldn’t be called Ventus Blue.. maybe have it be the Ventus Green or Gray, which would show buyers it’s in the “Ventus” family but it is not the $350 Ventus Blue you see on tour, but maybe has a similar profile with a friendlier flex for normal golfers.

And at least fujikura had previously used the “tour-spec” label to show the premium offerings and had all the versions of the atmos line on their website. You can still see different pages for Atmos and Atmos Tour Spec along with the different Curves. I’m not sure we are going to see These Venti on their site in their own category like that.






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But does avg Joe consumer know that? They see atmos blue and see it on tv to them it’s the same

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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But does avg Joe consumer know that? They see atmos blue and see it on tv to them it’s the same


At least one was white and one was black fir a while... but I see your point!

Anyway, I’m still excited to try the SIM out. Didn’t mean to go on a big tangent


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:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

:EVNROLL: ER2B | :titelist-small: Pro V1x | :918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | :CaddyTek: CaddyLite EZ v8

 

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8 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

 


At least one was white and one was black fir a while... but I see your point!

Anyway, I’m still excited to try the SIM out. Didn’t mean to go on a big tangent emoji2957.png


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Correct. The Atmos that was made for Taylormade was black. Only came in Atmos Blue and Red. 

The actual Atmos Tour Spec was only available in white. 

For the Cobra F9 driver, Fujikura made the Tour Spec in black. That was an actual Tour Spec shaft, just custom pained for cobra. 

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Going through some of the YouTube videos on the SIM drivers and just got onto Rick Shiels video which he kicked off by saying Shape in Motion or Slightly Improved Marketing for what SIM stands for and this is just another thing that's really irked me about his channel in recent months, and really the last year on the whole.

I know others agree with him, but as someone with an engineering background and as someone who would LOVE to be designing golf clubs for a company like TaylorMade, I just find the whole "it's all marketing BS" stuff so insulting. I mean, obviously marketing is going to dress up stuff to make it more appealing to consumers, that's literally their job, but it doesn't make the engineering that goes into these clubs any less real and it's incredibly insulting to the very intelligent people who put in countless hours of work designing these clubs to label them in that way.

End rant.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind)

PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE

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I'm 100% on board with the made for Ventus rant.  I've wanted to hit Ventus since it launched, then they released the Black and now I REALLY want to try it.  However I have 2 young kids and don't have the time or desire to go in and pay for a fitting just to test it out.  So I'll likely end up buying one when I find the right deal.  

However I also have a bunch of clubs laying around that I would be more than happy to trade in.  Couple that with 50% trade in bonus and if there was an OEM that released any driver with a real deal Ventus shaft this year and I would most likely buy it.  The fact that Taylormade put in a made for version and are trying to mask it as the real thing makes me not want to hit it.

I guess Cally is my last shot for this dream, but I don't have any high hopes there either.

As for the SIM if I ignore the issues with Ventus.  Love the color scheme and I think it looks better than their past few releases.  If it's truly lower spin with some gain in ball speed I'd put it on the short list of drivers to test this year.

Driver: :taylormade-small: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :cleveland-small: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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1 hour ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Going through some of the YouTube videos on the SIM drivers and just got onto Rick Shiels video which he kicked off by saying Shape in Motion or Slightly Improved Marketing for what SIM stands for and this is just another thing that's really irked me about his channel in recent months, and really the last year on the whole.

I know others agree with him, but as someone with an engineering background and as someone who would LOVE to be designing golf clubs for a company like TaylorMade, I just find the whole "it's all marketing BS" stuff so insulting. I mean, obviously marketing is going to dress up stuff to make it more appealing to consumers, that's literally their job, but it doesn't make the engineering that goes into these clubs any less real and it's incredibly insulting to the very intelligent people who put in countless hours of work designing these clubs to label them in that way.

End rant.

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I don’t want to get too far off topic, but I have to agree about Shiels over the past year or so. Most of his stuff is clickbait anymore and not real testing. He did have some good constructive comments on the SIM drivers once he got them on the course and launch monitor though - I’ll at least give him that much.

 

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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That is true, I hadn't finished the video when I posted that rant. He did say many nice things about the clubs but it felt more than a little unnecessary, in my opinion, to have that marketing dig in there.

Anyways, that kind of stuff just really grinds my gears.

I don’t want to get too far off topic, but I have to agree about Shiels over the past year or so. Most of his stuff is clickbait anymore and not real testing. He did have some good constructive comments on the SIM drivers once he got them on the course and launch monitor though - I’ll at least give him that much.
 


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DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind)

PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE

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Going through some of the YouTube videos on the SIM drivers and just got onto Rick Shiels video which he kicked off by saying Shape in Motion or Slightly Improved Marketing for what SIM stands for and this is just another thing that's really irked me about his channel in recent months, and really the last year on the whole.

I know others agree with him, but as someone with an engineering background and as someone who would LOVE to be designing golf clubs for a company like TaylorMade, I just find the whole "it's all marketing BS" stuff so insulting. I mean, obviously marketing is going to dress up stuff to make it more appealing to consumers, that's literally their job, but it doesn't make the engineering that goes into these clubs any less real and it's incredibly insulting to the very intelligent people who put in countless hours of work designing these clubs to label them in that way.

End rant.

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But, Shiels only picked up .4 mph versus TM's last driver right? At 113 mph that doesn't make a big difference in performance. For slower swingers there's even less upside.

For results-oriented, non-engineers SIM is marketing BS.

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My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

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That 0.4 mph could have been picked up for other reasons as well, but that doesn't make the engineering that went into the SIM designs any less real. Calling it marketing BS is incredibly disrespectful to everyone who worked on these clubs.

I also think "testing" for aerodynamics improvements in environments with negligible fluid flow is not an ideal way to test. At that point you're just testing how well the shape moves through stagnant air and given that companies have been using streamlined shapes in drivers for years, you're not going to see the largest difference possible in aerodynamic performance from club to club. You'd have to test them both on a windy day with the wind flowing directly towars the club face at address/impact to really begin to see the difference in performance between the two.

Aerodynamics, and fluid mechanics on the whole, is one of the most complex areas in all of applied physics.

But, Shiels only picked up .4 mph versus TM's last driver right? At 113 mph that doesn't make a big difference in performance. For slower swingers there's even less upside.

For results-oriented, non-engineers SIM is marketing BS.

Sent from my SM-N920V using MyGolfSpy mobile app



Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind)

PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE

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It’s 90+% marketing schtick, but most club manufacturers are guilty, not just TM. That said, club makers wouldn’t spend all the promo, ad and endorsement money if it didn’t work on a lot of players (who just like new and shiny to impress others or can’t believe their in Insteon swing is too blame). There are endless YT videos with launch monitor comparisons that clearly show there’s little difference from year to year, even brand to brand in many cases.
If you’re buying clubs you might as well get your favorite of the latest offerings on the market. But if you think your game will improve by upgrading every 1-2 years, odds are you’re kidding yourself. For at least 90% of us, our clubs are (way) better than we are...
The significant changes worthy of upgrading are few and far between - e.g hollow metal woods, oversized drivers, titanium/carbon fiber woods, modern golf balls, etc.
Though some players will insist their new clubs are better (none of us want to admit otherwise), I’ve yet to see anyone I play with improve their score just by getting new clubs. You?
CE78C689-9357-4327-A738-5C1A6D9FEBC6.thumb.jpeg.645ed50e94c095250f4e41d386705c6d.jpeg

Not gonna get in the classic yearly debate when new stuff comes out. Instead, I’m gonna ask you to go to Club Champion, or True Spec, or a fitter that has hundreds of shafts. Then, I’m gonna ask you to compare the new SIM drivers to what you currently play, or the M5/M6 after you’ve gotten your best head and shaft mix. Then, let us know if the marketing claims by TM about the SIM being more forgiving vs previous models, keeping spin off high face strikes, and overall ball speed improvements across the face as a whole appear in your fitting.
That will help this thread a ton!!! Let’s try to not bash and be negative. Let’s actually go try the clubs and see if what TM says makes these incrementally better actually shows-up for us.


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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The difference with PING on the tour shafts is that it has PING written all over it, not Elements Chrome.  It's close to the same, but looks different.  Its not pretending to be a Elements Chrome.
When Cally came out with that T800 shaft it looked exactly like the T1100, It was different, but looked the same.  It was pretending to be a T1100.
This Ventus looks like a Ventus, but is missing a lot of the tech in the real Ventus.  Its pretending to be a Ventus.
I think for a lot of people, myself included, its the "Look-alike" examples that need to be corrected with the industry.  Give it its own name, or color, or something to show consumers it is not the same as the one you would get from the shaft manufacturer.  
I agree with you that the general golfing public will have no idea... and that is why a lot of people get upset.  They think they have something they don't.
I think they article that was posted here is fantastic:  https://mygolfspy.com/made-for-shafts-a-closer-look/
 

It should have on the shaft:
Ventu.... Just Kidding!

THAT would be AWESOME!!


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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I like what TaylorMade is going for with the SIM line. The sole design could definitely use some smoothing out in my opinion.

I'm more curious why the SIM Max fairways and hybrid aren't getting an adjustable loft/lie sleeve. I don't get that one at all.

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They talk about it a bit in the TXG video. If I remember correctly, they put 80g of weight in the sole of the fairway so there’s weight behind the face where the ball makes contact, so removing the sleeve was necessary to get this additional weight down there. Optimizing ball speed off the face. Contact is made low on the face due to hitting off the deck. One has to have weight behind where contact is made to improve the ball numbers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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