null Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 This thread is hot garbage and non-forum members coming to MGS for info on the SiM are going to find this thread and scratch their heads RickyBobby_PR and garethw 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, jlukes said: This thread is hot garbage and non-forum members coming to MGS for info on the SiM are going to find this thread and scratch their heads You seem to know what this thread “should be”. Why don’t you just post what you think is lacking and try to make it better rather than slamming it or those commenting with their own opinion (regardless of what that opinion is based on)? PMookie 1 Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smellis745 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 13 hours ago, pozzit said: How did it feel and perform when you hit it? Can’t really tell you how it performed, as I was hitting in an outdoor 25 yard bay without a launch monitor. From where my current driver hits that net, this one seemed to make contact slightly higher, that’s comparing an 8.5 M3 and 8.0 SIM. As far as spin and dispersion, can’t tell you. Feel is subjective to each person, but the SIM felt solid. That’s the best way I can describe it with the limited swings I had. I plan to do a fitting sometime in the next month or so, when I do, I’ll post more thoughts then. GolfSpy BOS 1 Quote PXG 0811X Gen 4 7.5* - Graphite Design Tour AD-HD 7 TX TaylorMade M6 15* - PX HZRDUS Green 80 TX Titleist 913 Fd 18* - MCA KuroKage XMS 90 X /// OR /// Callaway XForged UT 20* - Aldila Rogue Black 105 TX Srixon Z745 4-P - PX LZ 7.0 Vokey SM7 49F / 53F / 58K - DG TI S400 Odyssey Black #3 34” Titleist AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Smellis745 said: Can’t really tell you how it performed, as I was hitting in an outdoor 25 yard bay without a launch monitor. From where my current driver hits that net, this one seemed to make contact slightly higher, that’s comparing an 8.5 M3 and 8.0 SIM. As far as spin and dispersion, can’t tell you. Feel is subjective to each person, but the SIM felt solid. That’s the best way I can describe it with the limited swings I had. I plan to do a fitting sometime in the next month or so, when I do, I’ll post more thoughts then. From my experience it is a solid driver. Sound isn't my preference, but the driver definitely performs. Of the drivers I have tested so far in most wanted, The Mavrik, SIM, and Cobra are all solider performers. Which one is best? That depends on you and your swing. I'd like to compare over different days to see how they do over time, but SIM and SIM Max seem to have generated the best ball speeds so far. I've only tested 16 of the 39 drivers so far so there is lots of others that could take my top spot. HardcoreLooper, Smellis745, TR1PTIK and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, TR1PTIK said: You seem to know what this thread “should be”. Why don’t you just post what you think is lacking and try to make it better rather than slamming it or those commenting with their own opinion (regardless of what that opinion is based on)? There’s one thing about coming into the thread and giving opinions using some sort of data point whether it’s from personal testing, feedback from a review, etc. Coming into a thread to offer an opinion with things like “it’s marketing hype” or it’s the same as driver X with no data to show it performs the same and just bashing a product is unnecessary. As for marketing what consumeR product doesnt have marketing hype around it. The marketing is what hypes a product and tries to draw the interest of the consumer. With just a little research one can see that the sim line of drivers isn’t just marketing hype. Does that mean it will benefit everyone the same or that they will be better for every golfer? No. But as MGS and every other forum, fitter, brand, etc says go get fit and see for yourself if it’s better or not. yungkory, null, cnosil and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 There have been an awful lot of comments (myself included) stating that the new Taylormade SIM drivers are somehow copying the Cobra F9 Speedback from last year. It's amazing how poor our memories are isn't it? Here's my attempt to clear the air on what has quickly become one of the most misunderstood attributes of Taylormade's new drivers... In the fall of 2018, Cobra Golf announced the release of their 2019 driver, the Cobra F9 Speedback. The announcement and subsequent release of the driver followed Cobra's typical announcement and release cycle as evidenced by both the Cobra F8 driver and this year's Cobra Speedzone driver. Likewise, Taylormade's announcement and release cycle has a similar pattern that just so happens to fall a little later on the calendar; Taylormade (at least for the past few years) has a tendency to wait until the new year before announcing their new drivers. So at this point you may be saying to yourself, "So what? The Cobra F9 was still released a full year before Taylormade SIM!" Ah, yes. Yes it was. Here's the thing though, SIM isn't a rip-off of the F9 Speedback. In fact, it isn't a rip-off of anyone else's product at all. The Taylormade SIM is an evolution of the Taylormade M6 driver that was released last year - the same year as F9. Clearly, Taylormade and Cobra being the innovators that they are, reached the same conclusion sometime ago (likely several years ago) that advancement in driver technology would involve improved aerodynamics and stability. So does this mean that Taylormade didn't study the F9 and make tweaks based on Cobra's design? I honestly couldn't say for sure. It's anyone's guess, but there's no reason to believe that any OEM wouldn't take a closer look at what their competitors are doing to try and make themselves better. GolfSpy BOS 1 Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: There’s one thing about coming into the thread and giving opinions using some sort of data point whether it’s from personal testing, feedback from a review, etc. Coming into a thread to offer an opinion with things like “it’s marketing hype” or it’s the same as driver X with no data to show it performs the same and just bashing a product is unnecessary. As for marketing what consumeR product doesnt have marketing hype around it. The marketing is what hypes a product and tries to draw the interest of the consumer. With just a little research one can see that the sim line of drivers isn’t just marketing hype. Does that mean it will benefit everyone the same or that they will be better for every golfer? No. But as MGS and every other forum, fitter, brand, etc says go get fit and see for yourself if it’s better or not. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion regardless of where it comes from. Plain and simple. You can look all over the forum and find posts from users where they interject their own personal opinion with no objective evidence to support their claims (you and I included). IMO, it is the responsibility for those of us who have been here for a little while longer and who have some objective data and/or first-hand experience to insert our own findings into the conversation and steer each discussion toward a more constructive dialogue. I won't respond to the latter portion of your post because my original comment toward @jlukes has nothing to do with the actual claims being made, "marketing BS", or the simple fact that results may vary for each individual user. These are all points that you and I agree on and restating them in my own words would be pointless. silver & black, Smellis745 and cnosil 3 Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWGolf23 Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 The more I think of it, this is more Scummy by Fujikura than anything else. Cheapens their own brand. Why offer something with Ventus on it if it doesn't contain the "groundbreaking" tech that makes the actual Ventus great That's what I thought when I saw they did this. Dumb for their brand. Opens up the possibility of a lot of golfers not seeing the results they expect.Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using MyGolfSpy mobile app yungkory and GolfSpy BOS 2 Quote M1 2017 10.5° (Project X HZRDUS T1100 6.5 75g, Golf Pride CP2) M2 2017 3W 15° (Project X HZRDUS Black 6.5 75g, Golf Pride CP2) King Tec 21° dialed to 20° (Mitsubishi MMT 80x) Pro 223 PW-6, 225 5-4 (Project X LZ 6.5 125g, Golf Pride CP2) Vokey SM6 52° F-grind, 56° M-grind, 60° L-Grind TP Black Copper Juno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. Harlan Ellison hckymeyer and RickyBobby_PR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hckymeyer Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, jlukes said: You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. Harlan Ellison Ignorance is bliss Cypher Sorry, couldn't resist GolfSpy BOS, silver & black and null 3 Quote Driver: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black 3w: '16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82 5w: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow Hybrid: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black Irons: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Wedges: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Putter: Red 7s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfspy_CG2 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 This may be the first MGS thread to ever be d back to back Harlen Ellison and Matrix references. PMookie, HardcoreLooper, sirchunksalot and 2 others 5 Quote G430 Max 10K TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 SM10 48F/54M and58K S159 48S/52S/56W/60B Select 5.5 Flowback 35" ProV1 Play number 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I just wish we could keep it on topic and stop griping... Jeez. Been going-on since Monday!“Y’all are grounded! Go to your rooms! If you can’t play nice, don’t play!”Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy THEZIPR23, bens197, TR1PTIK and 1 other 4 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I just wish we could keep it on topic and stop griping... Jeez. Been going-on since Monday!“Y’all are grounded! Go to your rooms! If you can’t play nice, don’t play!”Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpyDo we at least get bunk beds? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk silver & black, TR1PTIK and Smellis745 2 1 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smellis745 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 hours ago, MWGolf23 said: That's what I thought when I saw they did this. Dumb for their brand. Opens up the possibility of a lot of golfers not seeing the results they expect. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using MyGolfSpy mobile app It’s definitely a yuge gamble on their part, hopefully it works out for the better. Quote PXG 0811X Gen 4 7.5* - Graphite Design Tour AD-HD 7 TX TaylorMade M6 15* - PX HZRDUS Green 80 TX Titleist 913 Fd 18* - MCA KuroKage XMS 90 X /// OR /// Callaway XForged UT 20* - Aldila Rogue Black 105 TX Srixon Z745 4-P - PX LZ 7.0 Vokey SM7 49F / 53F / 58K - DG TI S400 Odyssey Black #3 34” Titleist AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Are we seriously approaching the $600 range for a driver? you can get a whole set of Srixon Z785 irons for almost the same price. I could see if this driver truly gave us 25 extra yards, but its mainly aesthetics and once again...marketing.... Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edingc Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Tsecor said: Are we seriously approaching the $600 range for a driver? you can get a whole set of Srixon Z785 irons for almost the same price. I could see if this driver truly gave us 25 extra yards, but its mainly aesthetics and once again...marketing.... As MGS acknowledges, truly breakthrough changes in driver technology only happen every 3-5 years. With exception, year-to-year changes are generally going to be minimal, but for certain players they may gladly spend the money for the small improvements. If you watch the TXG videos with the SIM, Matt gets some pretty considerable improvements out of the SIM vs last year's models. I've stated this before to friends offline and not on this forum, but if the price tag of a driver is too much for you, go get fit for the model you want and wait. Scour eBay or used club sites. You can find Cobra F8s brand new for $150 now without much effort. (I understand the delayed gratification is a problem...) I look at it this way - car manufacturers release a new model year every year. Is a 2020 model year significantly better than a 2019 or even a 2018 model year? With few exceptions, no. But I can guarantee you there are people who pay to upgrade every year or every two years. It is what it is. PMookie, TR1PTIK, cnosil and 1 other 4 Quote Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024) Driver: Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post 3 Wood: Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X 20° Hybrid: PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X 4 Utility: Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff 5-PW: Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting 50°, 54°, 58°: Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread Putter: L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review Grips: Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up Ball: Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow Tracked By: Shot Scope H4 Bag: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync Riding On: Bag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls | 2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, Tsecor said: Are we seriously approaching the $600 range for a driver? you can get a whole set of Srixon Z785 irons for almost the same price. I could see if this driver truly gave us 25 extra yards, but its mainly aesthetics and once again...marketing.... It’s a lot more than aesthetics and marketing. Plenty of amateurs are seeing enough ball speed and distance gains to upgrade. there are numerous non contract pros who have switched to the sim line and these guys don’t change if things aren’t better PMookie 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, edingc said: As MGS acknowledges, truly breakthrough changes in driver technology only happen every 3-5 years. With exception, year-to-year changes are generally going to be minimal, but for certain players they may gladly spend the money for the small improvements. If you watch the TXG videos with the SIM, Matt gets some pretty considerable improvements out of the SIM vs last year's models. I've stated this before to friends offline and not on this forum, but if the price tag of a driver is too much for you, go get fit for the model you want and wait. Scour eBay or used club sites. You can find Cobra F8s brand new for $150 now without much effort. (I understand the delayed gratification is a problem...) I look at it this way - car manufacturers release a new model year every year. Is a 2020 model year significantly better than a 2019 or even a 2018 model year? With few exceptions, no. But I can guarantee you there are people who pay to upgrade every year or every two years. It is what it is. all true. Except Matty is going through swing changes and to me, id rather see robot testing ONLY because you know you get the same exact swing each time and its a true apples to apples comparison when it comes to the gains you MAY see. I still play the 910D3 and it may be time for an upgrade, but spending $550 on a driver that may give you 3-5 extra yards isn't worth it to me. but I can see how people would want to justify the spend for a few yards. Its a beautiful club, that's for sure. TR1PTIK and edingc 2 Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, edingc said: I've stated this before to friends offline and not on this forum, but if the price tag of a driver is too much for you, go get fit for the model you want and wait. Scour eBay or used club sites. You can find Cobra F8s brand new for $150 now without much effort. (I understand the delayed gratification is a problem...) I look at it this way - car manufacturers release a new model year every year. Is a 2020 model year significantly better than a 2019 or even a 2018 model year? With few exceptions, no. But I can guarantee you there are people who pay to upgrade every year or every two years. It is what it is. Great points. edingc 1 Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: It’s a lot more than aesthetics and marketing. Plenty of amateurs are seeing enough ball speed and distance gains to upgrade. there are numerous non contract pros who have switched to the sim line and these guys don’t change if things aren’t better nobody is denying its "better" but to me, the marketing FAR outweighs the actual gains people are seeing. It is what it is. Im just saying the gains are very minimal in comparison to the spend. Its a beautiful driver and id love to have one, but the spend for 3 yards isn't worth it to me. But that's just me. I don't begrudge anyone who spends and gets what they want regardless of gains. Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tsecor said: all true. Except Matty is going through swing changes and to me, id rather see robot testing ONLY because you know you get the same exact swing each time and its a true apples to apples comparison when it comes to the gains you MAY see. I still play the 910D3 and it may be time for an upgrade, but spending $550 on a driver that may give you 3-5 extra yards isn't worth it to me. but I can see how people would want to justify the spend for a few yards. Its a beautiful club, that's for sure. Despite Matt’s changes his saw significant improvements with the sim and sim max. 12 minutes ago, Tsecor said: nobody is denying its "better" but to me, the marketing FAR outweighs the actual gains people are seeing. It is what it is. Im just saying the gains are very minimal in comparison to the spend. Its a beautiful driver and id love to have one, but the spend for 3 yards isn't worth it to me. But that's just me. I don't begrudge anyone who spends and gets what they want regardless of gains. That is player dependent. What one considers minimal someone else may see as significant. 5 yards for one person may not be enough to spend $500 whereas another person jumps at that and from what I have seen around various forms of social media there are several buying for the 1.5-2mph ball speed increase. So to say it’s minimal for the spend is general of a statement. Also there’s more that goes into some people’s decisions that aren’t speed/distance related. Looking at what TXG showed in the video the standard deviation improvement over m5 in spin and ball speed is significant imo. Better consistency in strikes goes to consistency in end results. Another note is there are going to be golfers who haven’t upgraded in years that are more than likely are going to see improvement over those with more recent drivers. Throwing potential improvements away as marketing or aesthetics is doing the engineers who spent hours upon hours over years working on the design a disservice. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 all true. Except Matty is going through swing changes and to me, id rather see robot testing ONLY because you know you get the same exact swing each time and its a true apples to apples comparison when it comes to the gains you MAY see. I still play the 910D3 and it may be time for an upgrade, but spending $550 on a driver that may give you 3-5 extra yards isn't worth it to me. but I can see how people would want to justify the spend for a few yards. Its a beautiful club, that's for sure. I’d like to see robot testing too with various strike locations. Out of the center they should all basically be the same, but it would be cool to see if they differ at all for high/low toe/heel strikes. Could help find something for a guy who knows his strike pattern. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Despite Matt’s changes his saw significant improvements with the sim and sim max. That is player dependent. What one considers minimal someone else may see as significant. 5 yards for one person may not be enough to spend $500 whereas another person jumps at that and from what I have seen around various forms of social media there are several buying for the 1.5-2mph ball speed increase. So to say it’s minimal for the spend is general of a statement. Also there’s more that goes into some people’s decisions that aren’t speed/distance related. Looking at what TXG showed in the video the standard deviation improvement over m5 in spin and ball speed is significant imo. Better consistency in strikes goes to consistency in end results. Another note is there are going to be golfers who haven’t upgraded in years that are more than likely are going to see improvement over those with more recent drivers. Throwing potential improvements away as marketing or aesthetics is doing the engineers who spent hours upon hours over years working on the design a disservice. Despite Matt’s changes his saw significant improvements with the sim and sim max.- is it the club or new swing? hard to tell and I don't think Matty is the best example for most of us for many reasons. first he hits it like 350, lol and he changes his swing quite often, plus he is more on the elite side of "amateur" players. Not bashing him, I just don't think his results can apply to most people. So to say it’s minimal for the spend is general of a statement. - that's why its my opinion. you have a different view. That's fine. Also there’s more that goes into some people’s decisions that aren’t speed/distance related. Looking at what TXG showed in the video the standard deviation improvement over m5 in spin and ball speed is significant imo. Better consistency in strikes goes to consistency in end results. - I agree with this. Throwing potential improvements away as marketing or aesthetics is doing the engineers who spent hours upon hours over years working on the design a disservice. - no its not. I work with designers and engineers all day and have for 15 years. We discuss this type of change all the time and they often say subtle changes in the engineering field do not directly relate to performance even though the quality is much better. So a more "stable" club is absolutely "better" and it may have taken 6 months to figure this out, but it may not result in gains. That's just how it is. The work is still incredible but the performance result may be much different than the engineering gains and getting an extra 10 yards MAY not even have been the goal of the designer or engineer. its not synonymous Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Tsecor said: is it the club or new swing? Did you watch the video? He hit M5 and SIM in the same session then went back to M5 for a couple more hits to confirm results. That pretty well rules out the swing changes he’s been working on. PMookie 1 Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I don't think Matty is the best example for most of us for many reasons. first he hits it like 350, lol and he changes his swing quite often, plus he is more on the elite side of "amateur" players. Not bashing him, I just don't think his results can apply to most people. Not bashing Matt, but hit full swing is solid, but I watched a couple of videos where he was getting short game instruction and he definitively needs help...definitely not elite. At the end of the day everyone has to make an assessment to see if the claims and actual improvement justifies the spend. Improvement could be distance or distribution or ball speed on miss hits. One player could see no improvement and another lots of improvement coming from the same club; there are lots of variables to look at. With clubs you really have to test them yourself and swing speed probably matters. There is a club in this years most wanted test that I struggled to get more than 1500 rpm backspin; most balls were knuckleballs. I ultimately had to change my swing to hit a big cut to get any relevant performance data. Another was so light I struggled to hit the ball consistently. These clubs work for someone and I am sure someone will say they gains 20 yards with the clubs I failed miserably to hit well HardcoreLooper 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 46 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said: Did you watch the video? He hit M5 and SIM in the same session then went back to M5 for a couple more hits to confirm results. That pretty well rules out the swing changes he’s been working on. No. I haven't seen that one yet but ill watch it tonight. Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 44 minutes ago, Tsecor said: No. I haven't seen that one yet but ill watch it tonight. I think it’s a pretty good one. The SIM MAX vs M6 is good too. It doesn’t prove much of anything about the exact marketing claims Taylormade is making, but there are noticeable improvements in ball flight and ball speed. Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 nobody is denying its "better" but to me, the marketing FAR outweighs the actual gains people are seeing. It is what it is. Im just saying the gains are very minimal in comparison to the spend. Its a beautiful driver and id love to have one, but the spend for 3 yards isn't worth it to me. But that's just me. I don't begrudge anyone who spends and gets what they want regardless of gains.So, do us a favor, and go test it for yourself. Don’t take Rick Shiels’s word, Crossfield’s word, Etches’s word, Blois’s word, no one’s. Go somewhere that can truly fit you to a “T”, and then let us know. This way, it’s about you and no one else. That’s the best way to make claims and see if it is just marketing. I go to the big North Louisiana demo-day every year and try just about everything, at least with the stock shafts, or what the rep has available. I usually don’t see everything in my bag beaten, but I go try it anyway and then I have actual data. Plus, it’s FUN!!!!! Do a demo-day at worst before deciding.Because, if you think about it, making claims without having tried it are nothing but the same thing as an OEM’s marketing claims.... Right? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro THEZIPR23, HardcoreLooper, Golfspy_CG2 and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 27 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said: I think it’s a pretty good one. The SIM MAX vs M6 is good too. It doesn’t prove much of anything about the exact marketing claims Taylormade is making, but there are noticeable improvements in ball flight and ball speed. The Max vs M6 is very intriguing to me because the M6 was a highly celebrated driver for many levels of players. Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, PMookie said: So, do us a favor, and go test it for yourself. Don’t take Rick Shiels’s word, Crossfield’s word, Etches’s word, Blois’s word, no one’s. Go somewhere that can truly fit you to a “T”, and then let us know. This way, it’s about you and no one else. That’s the best way to make claims and see if it is just marketing. I go to the big North Louisiana demo-day every year and try just about everything, at least with the stock shafts, or what the rep has available. I usually don’t see everything in my bag beaten, but I go try it anyway and then I have actual data. Plus, it’s FUN!!!!! Do a demo-day at worst before deciding. Because, if you think about it, making claims without having tried it are nothing but the same thing as an OEM’s marketing claims.... Right? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro That is correct sir. But for the sake of this discussion, we are somewhat debating marketing and cost vs gains....its a little bit of everything. My point was based off of many years of trying the newest and greatest driver to come out and I still hit my 910 D3 better than all of them...or at least the same....that why I mention the marketing angle.....hey, they have to sell clubs after all right? And we all know the public (us) is a sucker for a shiny new toy. But yes, id love to go to a demo day as you described. Im sure its a blast. I could probably spend all day at an event like that PMookie 1 Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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