Tsecor Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 4 hours ago, TR1PTIK said: I think it’s a pretty good one. The SIM MAX vs M6 is good too. It doesn’t prove much of anything about the exact marketing claims Taylormade is making, but there are noticeable improvements in ball flight and ball speed. I just watched it and its getting good results but maybe I missed how fast he was swinging? they didn't show clubhead speed in relation to ball speed so its hard to determine if he was swinging the SIM max faster than the M6? watching sim vs m5 now Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, Tsecor said: I just watched it and its getting good results but maybe I missed how fast he was swinging? they didn't show clubhead speed in relation to ball speed so its hard to determine if he was swinging the SIM max faster than the M6? watching sim vs m5 now They didn’t go into a deep discussion on it, but they mentioned in the video that the lunch monitor can register club speed differently based on the shape of the head which is why they didn’t focus on that. That’s why I said before that the video doesn’t quite back up Taylormade’s marketing claim - they’re primary claim being increased club speed from about the 9 o’clock position down through impact. I personally think increased club speed due to aerodynamics is going to be quite marginal year over year. However, I think (as Matty and Ian note in the videos at their studio and during their visit at The Kingdom) that the new shape and CG configuration has produced a more stable club leading to more consistent ball speeds. Hence, the reason for Matty’s increase in ball speed which also saw a 1.3MPH (if I remember correctly) improvement in standard deviation. Just my thoughts. Quote Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said: They didn’t go into a deep discussion on it, but they mentioned in the video that the lunch monitor can register club speed differently based on the shape of the head which is why they didn’t focus on that. That’s why I said before that the video doesn’t quite back up Taylormade’s marketing claim - they’re primary claim being increased club speed from about the 9 o’clock position down through impact. I personally think increased club speed due to aerodynamics is going to be quite marginal year over year. However, I think (as Matty and Ian note in the videos at their studio and during their visit at The Kingdom) that the new shape and CG configuration has produced a more stable club leading to more consistent ball speeds. Hence, the reason for Matty’s increase in ball speed which also saw a 1.3MPH (if I remember correctly) improvement in standard deviation. Just my thoughts. yea, that sounds about right. The biggest thing I take from it is the "stability" of the head. This is the one reason why I do not play TM drivers. have tried 2 different models over the years and always felt like the head was very unstable. I always thought it was just me but now this video make me feel a bit better. lol TR1PTIK 1 Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 That is correct sir. But for the sake of this discussion, we are somewhat debating marketing and cost vs gains....its a little bit of everything. My point was based off of many years of trying the newest and greatest driver to come out and I still hit my 910 D3 better than all of them...or at least the same....that why I mention the marketing angle.....hey, they have to sell clubs after all right? And we all know the public (us) is a sucker for a shiny new toy. But yes, id love to go to a demo day as you described. Im sure its a blast. I could probably spend all day at an event like thatSo much fun! My back hurts for days after . My biggest thing about the SIM “reviews” so far is that only TXG (from those I’ve seen) covered the technical aspects of the head with TM, and then when they truly tested it vs M5, they built both of them to the same exact specs, and tested what the engineer had told them was different. They gave the numbers on dispersion, showed the standard deviation, showed the results from a shot hit high on the face and how it kept its spin up. Shiels only did ball speed and distance. Same with Crossfield. So, my point is that unless folks test what the company said they improved in the head and where we’d see differences, then the review, or opinion, is moot. No, we all won’t see significant gains, but TXG even says this... For Matt Blois, though, to pick-up TEN yards vs M5 AND reduce dispersion, and standard deviation, that’s HUGE! A guy that has the perfect fitting at his disposal shouldn’t see those types of gains. To me, his gains DO show the club is special. Especially when the two clubs were identically built..... That’s huge.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro THEZIPR23, RickyBobby_PR and GolfSpy BOS 3 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, PMookie said: So much fun! My back hurts for days after . My biggest thing about the SIM “reviews” so far is that only TXG (from those I’ve seen) covered the technical aspects of the head with TM, and then when they truly tested it vs M5, they built both of them to the same exact specs, and tested what the engineer had told them was different. They gave the numbers on dispersion, showed the standard deviation, showed the results from a shot hit high on the face and how it kept its spin up. Shiels only did ball speed and distance. Same with Crossfield. So, my point is that unless folks test what the company said they improved in the head and where we’d see differences, then the review, or opinion, is moot. No, we all won’t see significant gains, but TXG even says this... For Matt Blois, though, to pick-up TEN yards vs M5 AND reduce dispersion, and standard deviation, that’s HUGE! A guy that has the perfect fitting at his disposal shouldn’t see those types of gains. To me, his gains DO show the club is special. Especially when the two clubs were identically built..... That’s huge. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro there is just so many factors that go into it but to me, and maybe im wrong, it just seems like ignoring clubhead speed is big. by his own admission he didn't like the feel of the M5 and its unstable platform. this is why id like to see robot testing to truly compare apples to apples but on the surface the SIM's look to be just as good or better than all the other drivers out there. I wanna see the new cobra PMookie 1 Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tsecor said: this is why id like to see robot testing to truly compare apples to apples Then you want OEM marketing information as that is primarily based on robot testing. PMookie and RickyBobby_PR 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, cnosil said: Then you want OEM marketing information as that is primarily based on robot testing. I didn't say that at all in relation to OEM marketing. Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, Tsecor said: there is just so many factors that go into it but to me, and maybe im wrong, it just seems like ignoring clubhead speed is big. by his own admission he didn't like the feel of the M5 and its unstable platform. this is why id like to see robot testing to truly compare apples to apples but on the surface the SIM's look to be just as good or better than all the other drivers out there. I wanna see the new cobra As Ian says club head speed is just input and he’s more interested in the output data which is ball speed and the launch characteristics. club head speed is only one aspect to things. Two guys with the same club head speed and 2 different aoa and club path are going to see different results PMookie 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 23 minutes ago, cnosil said: Then you want OEM marketing information as that is primarily based on robot testing. I’ve seen TaylorMade post in other forums saying they use robot testing, tour staff feedback, regulars testers and their fittings data to help design their clubs. cnosil 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: As Ian says club head speed is just input and he’s more interested in the output data which is ball speed and the launch characteristics. club head speed is only one aspect to things. Two guys with the same club head speed and 2 different aoa and club path are going to see different results lol. that's what is silly though......output is the result of input and clubhead speed is a main input to determine ball speeds so ignoring that main factor could easily show the results between two different clubs....per your 2nd point. this is why id like to see an apples to apples comparison on a robot. Make all inputs the same and see what comes out on the other side. Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 there is just so many factors that go into it but to me, and maybe im wrong, it just seems like ignoring clubhead speed is big. by his own admission he didn't like the feel of the M5 and its unstable platform. this is why id like to see robot testing to truly compare apples to apples but on the surface the SIM's look to be just as good or better than all the other drivers out there. I wanna see the new cobra Issue with clubhead speed was addressed by Ian: the two most used machines have difficulty measuring it accurately, therefore it’s inaccurate. Same here! I want to test the Cobra “Tour Length”!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro GolfSpy BOS 1 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 7 hours ago, Tsecor said: lol. that's what is silly though......output is the result of input and clubhead speed is a main input to determine ball speeds so ignoring that main factor could easily show the results between two different clubs....per your 2nd point. this is why id like to see an apples to apples comparison on a robot. Make all inputs the same and see what comes out on the other side. He’s not ignoring it he’s staying the unreliability to it. Also clubhead speed doesn’t equate to ball speed/distance due to the other factors of club delivery. cnosil already touched on it but seeing robot testing is pretty much how all brands test everything and make the claims of what improvements are seen so you had that already in the marketing material and TM listed in their claims on the website when talking about the new tech the increased speed has come thru player testing. As has been mentioned by several in this thread go test and see if it works for you or not to see if what marketing claims (which is based on information giving them from he engineers) is true or not. Everyone loves to knock marketing with out any individual testing and want to see X or Y type testing, then knock that testing because it didn’t include A,B or C Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Its been a good 5-6 years since the claims of 17 yards longer from TaylorMade, Callaway claiming irons were two clubs longer beige having to back off that campaign. I’m pretty sure every golfer whether they are the more golf educated ones on forums/social media or the avg Joe weekend warrior knows that if all marketing was true everyone would be hitting drivers 100 yards further at this point, but we aren’t. We know marketing has to tell a story to get attention to a product regardless of what segment of consumer goods it is. And it’s on the consumer to determine if the marketing claims match what the product does and if it does match is the price worth the amount of improvement. For some a slight increase in distance of 3-5 yards might be enough, for others they need to see 10+ yards. This will be harder for those who are consistent in strike pattern and have been properly fit. I’ve seen plenty of people at demo days whose only concern is does this club go further than my current one, no care in the world if the lofts, lie, length play any role in the reason go for the added distance. then there’s the golfer that knows they a good fitting they may be able to squeak out a few extra yards and probably improve dispersion so that small so they look at what improved one or both of those areas. Theres all kinds of golfers out there and marketing has to get their attention to possibly come try their product. cnosil and Tsecor 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy BOS Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Issue with clubhead speed was addressed by Ian: the two most used machines have difficulty measuring it accurately, therefore it’s inaccurate. Same here! I want to test the Cobra “Tour Length”!!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro I play my ping at 44.5 so the tour length is something I want to swing too. Don’t think I’ll go longer than 45 again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk PMookie 1 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: He’s not ignoring it he’s staying the unreliability to it. Also clubhead speed doesn’t equate to ball speed/distance due to the other factors of club delivery. cnosil already touched on it but seeing robot testing is pretty much how all brands test everything and make the claims of what improvements are seen so you had that already in the marketing material and TM listed in their claims on the website when talking about the new tech the increased speed has come thru player testing. As has been mentioned by several in this thread go test and see if it works for you or not to see if what marketing claims (which is based on information giving them from he engineers) is true or not. Everyone loves to knock marketing with out any individual testing and want to see X or Y type testing, then knock that testing because it didn’t include A,B or C This is my point. Data from Trackman concluded "The most important factor in increasing carry distance is clubhead speed. For every 1 mph you can add to your swing speed you stand to gain almost 3 yards" That is ONE factor as we know, so its very relevant. Since those guys are using the same monitor for all their testing and even though head shape can factor in, the speed gain related to shape is so minimal, its really a non factor. of course everything else you mentioned is also a factor, but you HAVE to include club head speed in a comparison test to really show the true differences of the two clubs you are comparing. Its just too much of a factor to not include. Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Its been a good 5-6 years since the claims of 17 yards longer from TaylorMade, Callaway claiming irons were two clubs longer beige having to back off that campaign. I’m pretty sure every golfer whether they are the more golf educated ones on forums/social media or the avg Joe weekend warrior knows that if all marketing was true everyone would be hitting drivers 100 yards further at this point, but we aren’t. We know marketing has to tell a story to get attention to a product regardless of what segment of consumer goods it is. And it’s on the consumer to determine if the marketing claims match what the product does and if it does match is the price worth the amount of improvement. For some a slight increase in distance of 3-5 yards might be enough, for others they need to see 10+ yards. This will be harder for those who are consistent in strike pattern and have been properly fit. I’ve seen plenty of people at demo days whose only concern is does this club go further than my current one, no care in the world if the lofts, lie, length play any role in the reason go for the added distance. then there’s the golfer that knows they a good fitting they may be able to squeak out a few extra yards and probably improve dispersion so that small so they look at what improved one or both of those areas. Theres all kinds of golfers out there and marketing has to get their attention to possibly come try their product. so true. I play with guys who talk only length and claim they hit it 300 (when im not there of course) and they will spray their driver all over the course. Length is their only concern. When I say "If you hit it 5 yards shorter but play from the fairway, your scores may end up being better". They basically mock the shorter distances and would rather be 30 yards closer to the green...behind a tree....lol Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, Tsecor said: This is my point. Data from Trackman concluded "The most important factor in increasing carry distance is clubhead speed. For every 1 mph you can add to your swing speed you stand to gain almost 3 yards" That is ONE factor as we know, so its very relevant. Since those guys are using the same monitor for all their testing and even though head shape can factor in, the speed gain related to shape is so minimal, its really a non factor. of course everything else you mentioned is also a factor, but you HAVE to include club head speed in a comparison test to really show the true differences of the two clubs you are comparing. Its just too much of a factor to not include. Even though they are using the same monitor for all their tests the monitor itself doesn’t read each head the same way so they can’t say if speed differences are due to the club or how the monitor reads it. While adding speed can increase distance it’s not a guarantee. I was just watching rick Shiels video on the mavrik. He gained almost 1mph swing speed and lost some ball speed and distance compared to the epic flash. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said: Even though they are using the same monitor for all their tests the monitor itself doesn’t read each head the same way so they can’t say if speed differences are due to the club or how the monitor reads it. While adding speed can increase distance it’s not a guarantee. I was just watching rick Shiels video on the mavrik. He gained almost 1mph swing speed and lost some ball speed and distance compared to the epic flash. as we know its far from an exact science and the marketing stuff gets a bad wrap because the companies don't tell you how they back up their claims...they just say "gain 5 more yards"!!! and we are all like YEA!!! TAKE MY $600!!! lol....we are like pavlov's dog as they say.....ring the bell, watch us salivate!! Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tsecor said: as we know its far from an exact science and the marketing stuff gets a bad wrap because the companies don't tell you how they back up their claims...they just say "gain 5 more yards"!!! and we are all like YEA!!! TAKE MY $600!!! lol....we are like pavlov's dog as they say.....ring the bell, watch us salivate!! Well TaylorMade right on their website under two different claims have an asterisk that states it’s from players testing. The vast majority do now especially after Callaway was called out on it several years back claiming their irons were two clubs longer and it turns out it was two clubs longer than their own stuff. The educated golfer will know where to go look for it and do their own verification. as discussed there are others that are going to see added distance from the tech on off center hits and they don’t care if it’s 1 hard further or 10 as long as it goes further. Tsecor 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 This thread in a nutshell THEZIPR23, bens197, JohnSmalls and 5 others 6 2 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 4 hours ago, Tsecor said: as we know its far from an exact science and the marketing stuff gets a bad wrap because the companies don't tell you how they back up their claims...they just say "gain 5 more yards"!!! and we are all like YEA!!! TAKE MY $600!!! lol....we are like pavlov's dog as they say.....ring the bell, watch us salivate!! Marketing like this isn't unique to the golf industry. Car companies do it. phone companies do it. healthcare, beauty, food and drink companies all do it. It's the nature of the world. But at the same time, nobody has a gun to their head being told how to spend their money, so I am really not sure why there is always so much outrage about marketing. HardcoreLooper, patrickleeleep, JohnSmalls and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, jlukes said: Marketing like this isn't unique to the golf industry. Car companies do it. phone companies do it. healthcare, beauty, food and drink companies all do it. It's the nature of the world. But at the same time, nobody has a gun to their head being told how to spend their money, so I am really not sure why there is always so much outrage about marketing. If someone wants to spend their hard earned cash on something that’s equal or better go for it. Not sure how/why someone decides to spend their cash is such an issue null 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quigleyd Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I will say, I have been very impressed with the SIM as I have hit it. It is producing above average ball speeds, and good dispersion. It is a serious contender this year. The M5 for me was very meh, but the SIM has my attention. TR1PTIK, Flip4000, GolfSpy BOS and 2 others 5 Quote Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x 3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsecor Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 16 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said: If someone wants to spend their hard earned cash on something that’s equal or better go for it. Not sure how/why someone decides to spend their cash is such an issue not sure this was ever a point of the discussion and from some of the other responses above this thread has become WRX'ish, so ill bow out at this point TR1PTIK 1 Quote Golf is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 21 hours ago, Tsecor said: as we know its far from an exact science and the marketing stuff gets a bad wrap because the companies don't tell you how they back up their claims...they just say "gain 5 more yards"!!! and we are all like YEA!!! TAKE MY $600!!! lol....we are like pavlov's dog as they say.....ring the bell, watch us salivate!! 15 minutes ago, Tsecor said: not sure this was ever a point of the discussion and from some of the other responses above this thread has become WRX'ish, so ill bow out at this point The quoted part above is basically you saying people are just willing to throw money at a new product claimed to gain 5 yards. I think my comment in reply to @jlukes is part of the discussion. If someone wants to spend their money based purely on marketing there’s nothing wrong with that. If they want to spend it on a driver or new irons that provide the same performance just to have something new then so be it. Not my business to tell someone where or how to spend their money. Smellis745 and null 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregB135 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I happened to have a driver fitting the day the TM distributor was dropping these off at my fitter's location. End result of the fitting was, the driver in the bag (Titleist 917D2) was the best performing option of what we hit during the session (Ping G410+, G410LST, Callaway Epic, Cobra F9). With all the contenders we never saw anything better than equal performance to the current driver. All that to say; If your swing (speed/tempo/ball striking) has not significantly changed, chances are, if you've bought a new driver within the last 2 years you aren't likely to see any noticeable performance difference with this years offerings. As many have stated, year-to-year the OEMs are typically only able to achieve small increments in performance changes. So, until you wear the club out and notice the change in performance it's more likely you can shift the cost of that new driver into something else to improve. cnosil, silver & black and TR1PTIK 3 Quote Driver: 311XF Gen5, Tensei CK Pro Orange, S flex Fariway: 311XF Gen6 3-Wood, Tensei Blue 55g R flex Hybrid: 211, 3H Project X Evenflow H, 80g, 5.5 TSR2 4H, Tensei Blue R (Forum Tester) Irons: T200 2023, Tensei Blue R (Forum Tester), 5-GW Wedges: CBX2 Zipcore 52*, 56* Project X Catalyst Spinner Graphite Shaft Putter: ER2 Murdered Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungkory Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I guess I'll just post my first impressions in this thread instead of making another thread with the same subject matter. My driver swing is still kinda in the dumps, but I will say that SIM Max is very good on all parts of the face. Call it forgiveness, or whatever you want to call it, but I'm not hitting the middle and it's still keeping my average distance better than Flash was. High off the face is launching high with lower spin, but still moving forward enough to where you can still be successful. The middle of the club is no different from any other drivers I've played in the last 4 or so years dating back to the OG Epic. More work definitely needed, but I like the way it frames the ball. Initially I felt like it looked like it sat closed, but after playing it today it looks square. The sound and feel off the face is great though, definitely more carbon-sounding than Flash, but not completely dead. Excited to run it through the paces! edingc, bens197, JohnSmalls and 6 others 9 Quote Driver: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S 3w/5w: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S 4h: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S Irons 5-PW: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S Wedges: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105 Putter: LAB Link.1 Ball: Z-Star Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perseveringgolfer Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I havent tried it, yet, but my local pro has and its now in his bag. He's an ex Tour player and posted all his findings via a 2 hr trackman session. No differences in his key stats over his last TM driver, or the one before, but he likes it, and it's the latest TM driver, so he will use it. JohnSmalls and heribertomaya 2 Quote Driver Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs) 4 Wood Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+ Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex Hybrid Titleist 910H 19* Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S' Irons Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S' Wedges Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54* KBS Tour in 'R' Putter 'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfspy_CG2 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I'm struggling with my SIM Max in the early going. Right now it's strictly a backup to the TS1, which is just soooo good! But the few times, I've taken it out and hit shots with it on the course, it's been very inconsistent. and mostly bad. JohnSmalls, PMookie and RickyBobby_PR 3 Quote G430 Max 10K TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 SM10 48F/54M and58K S159 48S/52S/56W/60B Select 5.5 Flowback 35" ProV1 Play number 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said: I'm struggling with my SIM Max in the early going. Right now it's strictly a backup to the TS1, which is just soooo good! But the few times, I've taken it out and hit shots with it on the course, it's been very inconsistent. and mostly bad. What loft do you have? What type of flight/shots are you seeing? Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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