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Taylormade SIM drivers - Thoughts?

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I am a HUGE taylormade fan. With that being said, I think that with the release of the new SIM driver, they regressed a bit. With the loss of the adjustability of the weights in the T tack to only the front slide row for draw and fade setting, players like myself who spin the ball high and need the weights to be in the front aren't going to fit well into the SIM. I am currently playing the M5 driver in a 9.5 deg head turned down to 7.5 deg with one weight set in the draw and the other to the very front, my numbers are 118 swing 2300 spin 174 ball and 13 deg launch carry for 305yds. When I sent to get fitted for the SIM and well lest just say I'm going to stick with my M5. At the fitting my numbers were 119 swing, 3000 spin, 175 ball, 15 deg launch, carry 289yds. All of my numbers were from the fitting on GC Quad with range balls onto a range on the same day and the numbers were averages.


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3 hours ago, Fullsendglf said:

I am a HUGE taylormade fan. With that being said, I think that with the release of the new SIM driver, they regressed a bit. With the loss of the adjustability of the weights in the T tack to only the front slide row for draw and fade setting, players like myself who spin the ball high and need the weights to be in the front aren't going to fit well into the SIM. I am currently playing the M5 driver in a 9.5 deg head turned down to 7.5 deg with one weight set in the draw and the other to the very front, my numbers are 118 swing 2300 spin 174 ball and 13 deg launch carry for 305yds. When I sent to get fitted for the SIM and well lest just say I'm going to stick with my M5. At the fitting my numbers were 119 swing, 3000 spin, 175 ball, 15 deg launch, carry 289yds. All of my numbers were from the fitting on GC Quad with range balls onto a range on the same day and the numbers were averages.

Just because you didn’t have success with a driver doesn’t mean they have regressed. There’s plenty of evidence on forums that indicate they have improved over the m5 and in general. @Quigleyd has posted info. The sim thread on wrx has numerous people seeing better results from sim and max compared to various previous releases and over several of the new releases. You are probably one of the very few that has seen an increase in spin with the sim. What’s your aoa with the m5 and sim? Where on the face was your contact?

TXG comparison between m5 and sim show improvement in speed and better standard deviation.

 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

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Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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9 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Just because you didn’t have success with a driver doesn’t mean they have regressed. There’s plenty of evidence on forums that indicate they have improved over the m5 and in general. @Quigleyd has posted info. The sim thread on wrx has numerous people seeing better results from sim and max compared to various previous releases and over several of the new releases. You are probably one of the very few that has seen an increase in spin with the sim. What’s your aoa with the m5 and sim? Where on the face was your contact?

TXG comparison between m5 and sim show improvement in speed and better standard deviation.

 

Yes, I have seen those videos and reviews. My stating that the SIM was a regression was in my opinion and not a fact. The numerical data that I presented was just for my reasoning  as to why the SIM is not an ideal match for me.  I am a fairly good ball striker and my strikes typically sightly towards the toe at or above center. My AOA is +4 to +5. I like to swing up on the ball a lot. Thanks for the reply.


M5 7.5Deg UST Proforce V2 tipped 1" strong 70g X

M5 Rocket 3 14deg UST Proforce V2  70g X

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1 hour ago, Fullsendglf said:

Yes, I have seen those videos and reviews. My stating that the SIM was a regression was in my opinion and not a fact. The numerical data that I presented was just for my reasoning  as to why the SIM is not an ideal match for me.  I am a fairly good ball striker and my strikes typically sightly towards the toe at or above center. My AOA is +4 to +5. I like to swing up on the ball a lot. Thanks for the reply.

Exactly my point. Your post said they regressed as a general statement the driver release regressed. Then you went on to give your results as a way to justify your statement.

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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On 4/2/2020 at 12:45 AM, Fullsendglf said:

I am a HUGE taylormade fan. With that being said, I think that with the release of the new SIM driver, they regressed a bit. With the loss of the adjustability of the weights in the T tack to only the front slide row for draw and fade setting, players like myself who spin the ball high and need the weights to be in the front aren't going to fit well into the SIM. I am currently playing the M5 driver in a 9.5 deg head turned down to 7.5 deg with one weight set in the draw and the other to the very front, my numbers are 118 swing 2300 spin 174 ball and 13 deg launch carry for 305yds. When I sent to get fitted for the SIM and well lest just say I'm going to stick with my M5. At the fitting my numbers were 119 swing, 3000 spin, 175 ball, 15 deg launch, carry 289yds. All of my numbers were from the fitting on GC Quad with range balls onto a range on the same day and the numbers were averages.

Were you using the same shaft? These heads seem to have different weight characteristics- could be affecting your delivery. Stick with what works obviously- most of us would lose a toe for those numbers!

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On 4/8/2020 at 1:07 PM, AH1980MN said:

Were you using the same shaft? These heads seem to have different weight characteristics- could be affecting your delivery. Stick with what works obviously- most of us would lose a toe for those numbers!

My fitting was at a Taylormade fitting event. So they had every shaft offering available to test during the fitting. During my fitting process I started with my M5 with my V2 shaft in it to get baseline numbers. From there they gave me a SIM with my V2 shaft from my M5. After a few swings, the fitter didn't like the spin or launch and started handing me all sorts of different shafts. We tested the Hzrdous Smoke green, Ventus blue and black, Diamania s Limited, Mistubishi Tensi Pro White, hoping to find a better combination but were unable to. In the end he recommended that if I do decide to upgrade to the SIM that I could either play the Smoke green and get it tipped two inches like my current gamer or to play my current gamer shaft in the new head. The numbers that I gave were generated with my gamer Proforce V2 7F5.


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M5 Rocket 3 14deg UST Proforce V2  70g X

GaparLo 2 17deg KBS Tour Hybrid Prototype 95g X

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5-Pw Taylormade P7TW Project X 6.5

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On 4/2/2020 at 12:43 PM, Fullsendglf said:

Yes, I have seen those videos and reviews. My stating that the SIM was a regression was in my opinion and not a fact. The numerical data that I presented was just for my reasoning  as to why the SIM is not an ideal match for me.  I am a fairly good ball striker and my strikes typically sightly towards the toe at or above center. My AOA is +4 to +5. I like to swing up on the ball a lot. Thanks for the reply.

+4,+5 AOA..?

dang!   I’m lucky to get close to even. I’m usually  -.7 or thereabouts... I wish I could get a little positive AOA 

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7 hours ago, Sluggo42 said:

+4,+5 AOA..?

dang!   I’m lucky to get close to even. I’m usually  -.7 or thereabouts... I wish I could get a little positive AOA 

Thanks! Just a lot of range time trying to get the ball up in the air and keeping it there longer. There are tons of drills and set up changes online if you're looking to change it. 


M5 7.5Deg UST Proforce V2 tipped 1" strong 70g X

M5 Rocket 3 14deg UST Proforce V2  70g X

GaparLo 2 17deg KBS Tour Hybrid Prototype 95g X

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11 minutes ago, Fullsendglf said:

Thanks! Just a lot of range time trying to get the ball up in the air and keeping it there longer. There are tons of drills and set up changes online if you're looking to change it. 

Actually, imho, you’re a little too steep coming up, and I’m at a loss at how you’re getting there! Have you had it measured on some type of monitor? Do you tee it up 3 or 4 inches? 
Im no expert as everyone in here will tell you haha, but I know that I’m fairly steep into my iron shots, like -3 to -5. Just not sure how one could do the opposite with a driver...

but like I said, I’m just shooting from the hip here, I’ll spend a little time trying to educate myself this evening...

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Actually, imho, you’re a little too steep coming up, and I’m at a loss at how you’re getting there! Have you had it measured on some type of monitor? Do you tee it up 3 or 4 inches? 
Im no expert as everyone in here will tell you haha, but I know that I’m fairly steep into my iron shots, like -3 to -5. Just not sure how one could do the opposite with a driver...
but like I said, I’m just shooting from the hip here, I’ll spend a little time trying to educate myself this evening...

I want to say Rory is like +6 or +7. But I believe it varies quite a bit depending the monitor type (radar vs photo).


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This is actually a great topic, probably better in a different thread.

heres a great video I found, and it’s something I’ll definately be playing with in my garage driving bay tomorrow... I think by just getting from a -1 to a +1 would probably give me at least 15-25 extra yards...

Well poop I can’t seem to figure out how to attach the darned thing, but it basically shows how keeping your left shoulder even with or slightly behind the ball raises it. Now they were thrilled to get to +1.9, but they guy started at -2 and 119 mph swing. It went 205 carry and 260 total. Second swing was +0.7 and carried 285 and 303 total at 117mph. Last swing was slowest at 116ish, AOA was +1.9, and 292 carry and 313 total.

thats all I needed to see to realize that driver AOA is stupid important, and why sometimes I would hit big bombs, and not as long other times 

good stuff

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This is actually a great topic, probably better in a different thread.
heres a great video I found, and it’s something I’ll definately be playing with in my garage driving bay tomorrow... I think by just getting from a -1 to a +1 would probably give me at least 15-25 extra yards...
Well poop I can’t seem to figure out how to attach the darned thing, but it basically shows how keeping your left shoulder even with or slightly behind the ball raises it. Now they were thrilled to get to +1.9, but they guy started at -2 and 119 mph swing. It went 205 carry and 260 total. Second swing was +0.7 and carried 285 and 303 total at 117mph. Last swing was slowest at 116ish, AOA was +1.9, and 292 carry and 313 total.
thats all I needed to see to realize that driver AOA is stupid important, and why sometimes I would hit big bombs, and not as long other times 
good stuff

Being on a launch monitor is probably required to measure this accurately. I have a tendency to get toward level or plus numbers but can easily adjust by relaxing the right arm/shoulder. This will move me toward +2 with no ball position change. Shaft will also have some influence. I was hitting a 60gr Proforce V2 but switched to a 50gr KBS TD this past weekend and my ball launch increased and I got more distance.

That said Hitting up on the ball isn’t required; you can be successful hitting down or level with a driver. Changing AoA does change the swing dynamic and how a club is delivered into the ball.

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21 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Being on a launch monitor is probably required to measure this accurately.
Absolutely! It’s such a subtle difference!


That said Hitting up on the ball isn’t required; you can be successful hitting down or level with a driver.

I guess that depends on many things, and less important for the higher swing speed guys, but it seems that a 104mph guy like me can pick up a pretty easy 20 yards by going from a -2 to a +1 or +2...


Changing AoA does change the swing dynamic and how a club is delivered into the ball. Yes!- I think there are more layers of complexity besides just that 3 to 4°.

It’s an area that I’ve never really pondered seriously... but like cnosil says, one needs a monitor that will give that reading accurately.. but I’d bet that most any pro could tell you what his avg AOA is...


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:ping-small: g400 3 wood on Aldila Stiff  not for long! Looking for a MavriK 3-wood!!!

:callaway-small: 816 Big Bertha Alpha 3-wood (stand-in until the MavriK is found)

:callaway-small: 815 GBB Alpha hybrid 19° On Fujikura Speeder 865 Stiff

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I swing down and to the right on my driver swings by a couple degrees. Working on flattening it out as well! I am a good iron player though, so I don’t want to change it to much. However, watching a ball hit a soft fairway and stop like a mid-iron is not great. One thing you can do to get the feeling is to alter the position of the ball in relation to the D-plane. Aim a bit right of your target and put the ball well forward, as the club comes around to the left it will come up, no flipping or standing up required! That’s the feeling! But most people will do this great, then start to regress and figure out how to move their body to get back to a comfortable impact, so you have to work hard to keep the feel going. 
 

As for the SIM Driver I hit it fairly straight and long with a Ventus Black with Velocore. But I didn’t like the sound and feel of the face, and I tended to hit it low and slightly on the toe. Face was forgiving enough to keep those misses in play. Even though it wasn’t for me, I think it’ll find it’s way into a lot of bags. 


Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 106mph
 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2020 at 5:25 PM, Sluggo42 said:

Actually, imho, you’re a little too steep coming up, and I’m at a loss at how you’re getting there! Have you had it measured on some type of monitor? Do you tee it up 3 or 4 inches? 
Im no expert as everyone in here will tell you haha, but I know that I’m fairly steep into my iron shots, like -3 to -5. Just not sure how one could do the opposite with a driver...

but like I said, I’m just shooting from the hip here, I’ll spend a little time trying to educate myself this evening...

It simple actually. its all about the set up. I tee the ball up about half ball above the crown of my driver and it is inside of my left heel at address. then have a reverse k in my stance and keep my regular swing. By doing so, it changes my AOA from being negative with my irons into a positive with my driver.  Also by increasing the AOA, your spin numbers will also be reduced. Which combined with the increase in height, will give you larger carry numbers. And I have had access to both trackman and GC Quad for data measurements. 

Edited by Fullsendglf
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6 hours ago, Fullsendglf said:

It simple actually. its all about the set up. I tee the ball up about half ball above the crown of my driver and it is inside of my left heel at address. then have a reverse k in my stance and keep my regular swing. By doing so, it changes my AOA from being negative with my irons into a positive with my driver.  Also by increasing the AOA, your spin numbers will also be reduced. Which combined with the increase in height, will give you larger carry numbers. And I have had access to both trackman and GC Quad for data measurements. 

I worked on it yesterday and got it up to a +2°. Carry increased a lot. This is a great tip that I’d never paid any attention to before. Don’t know about reaching your numbers, but thrilled with finally understanding the concept, and also a path to practice during my confinement, thanks!

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I have never owned anything but TM drivers since 05’ when I got my superquad. This year I finally did some testing and changed for the first time since. I have owned pretty much every rendition up to the m1 since never really a difference. Went to the speedzone this year and what a difference. 


Stay Safe!

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I had no plans to buy a new driver in 2020 because I love my Cobra F9 Speedback driver that I played throughout all of 2019, and the first month of 2020 in two winter leagues and on a winter golf tour.  Then, I demo'd a TM SIM MAX D driver and the results were so good that I bought one.  For me, the MAX D is not terribly draw-biased, but it does tame my fade, which has the potential to become a nasty slice when my swing is out of sorts.  I can aim it down the left side to the left-center of the fairway and not get any crazy pull-hooks, as well.  Another nice feature of the SIM MAX D is that if I set the loft to one notch lower (in my case, that takes the 10.5* clubhead down to 9.75* loft), it opens the face a bit (less than one degree), but I still haven't seen any big fades/slices in this setting.  One other thing -- it's plenty long!

I played this SIM MAX D for two months (about 6 or 7 rounds) prior to the shutdown of all area golf courses in NJ and PA due to the COVID-19 pandemic, and it will remain in my bag once we get the OK to resume playing golf.

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Hybrids: Exotics EXS220 (19*) and Cobra F8 (22*), stiff Accra Tour-Z hybrid shafts

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Playing the Sim in a 9deg with a tour Ad iz6x. No doubt has been the best driver I’ve hit and played since the 2016 m2. IMO the only thing that comes near it is ping g410lst and the cobra line. This thing is a straight up weapon.


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3 wood   1F17BF28-C0F1-4E8F-8755-ECC09DF97C8C.jpeg.c53f142f688fa9ba960db8bafc55e1e6.jpegR11s 14* Aldila 80g RIP phenom stiff

Hybrid    1F17BF28-C0F1-4E8F-8755-ECC09DF97C8C.jpeg.c53f142f688fa9ba960db8bafc55e1e6.jpeg 2016 M1 19* Fuji pro80 stiff

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Putter       87484C23-73C2-4A8F-8F7F-536D909C9D00.jpeg.149dc29f28d951d24c3f7e29f69bd596.jpeg  Er.7  37”

Tracking.  B76CF1E2-77CA-421F-96BE-8E04E4B2B861.jpeg.998ffe83005e42b761646e30b0120512.jpeg Arccos 360 

Ball            2D586292-4648-465E-A9F6-8648DB25AEB1.jpeg  Prov1

 

 

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I currently am playing the Ping g410 LST and I am getting lessons. We decided to do a driver fitting for one of my lessons and I was getting good numbers with the Ping around 280 carry, but he noted my spin numbers just seemed way too high and my dispersion was a little too big. On a whim, he gave me a Sim with a ventus blue shaft and had me take a couple swings. First drive I thought I miss hit it of the toe based on the feel but it carried 315 right down the pipe. My spin was down from 2800 to 1800-2100 and my launch was 15 degrees. I hit 6 more and my numbers were great.

More notable was my dispersion was down to 25 yards between left and right shots. Ball speed was maybe 1-3 higher, but the key for me was the spin reduction. I had not planned on buying an new driver this year, but based on the numbers we saw, it was a no brainer to order a SIM. It will be here in about 2 weeks and I cannot wait. Just hope I get similar results to what I saw in the fitting.


Right Handed

Ping G410 LST 9 degree X flex ping tour shaft 75G

Ping G410 3 wood 14.5  X flex Evenflow black 85G

Taylormade Gapr low 19 degree X flex KBS hybrid 80G

Titleist 714 AP2 4-9 iron +.5 length 1 degree upright S flex kbs tour 120G

Vokey SM6 46  +.5 length 1 degree upright Dynamic gold S 300

Vokey SM5 50, 54,  +.5 length 1 degree upright S flex kbs tour 120G

Vokey SM5 58  +.5 length 1 degree upright S high rev 125G

Scotty cameron newport 2.6 34 length

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