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Taylormade SIM drivers - Thoughts?


JonMUSC08

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Going through some of the YouTube videos on the SIM drivers and just got onto Rick Shiels video which he kicked off by saying Shape in Motion or Slightly Improved Marketing for what SIM stands for and this is just another thing that's really irked me about his channel in recent months, and really the last year on the whole.

I know others agree with him, but as someone with an engineering background and as someone who would LOVE to be designing golf clubs for a company like TaylorMade, I just find the whole "it's all marketing BS" stuff so insulting. I mean, obviously marketing is going to dress up stuff to make it more appealing to consumers, that's literally their job, but it doesn't make the engineering that goes into these clubs any less real and it's incredibly insulting to the very intelligent people who put in countless hours of work designing these clubs to label them in that way.

End rant.

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He and Crossfield, generally, don’t even test what the differences are that are being claimed from one model to the next. “Straighter/more forgiving”. They NEVER go though and show the dispersion grid, or FIR on-course, never. “Improved spin numbers on high face hits”. They never try to show if this is true or not. “Better ball speeds across a larger portion of the face”. Again, never testing this.
All they do is hit balls, “Whats my ball speed and distance?” They do SUCH a disservice to the consumer by not testing the actual changes in the iterations.


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

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He and Crossfield, generally, don’t even test what the differences are that are being claimed from one model to the next. “Straighter/more forgiving”. They NEVER go though and show the dispersion grid, or FIR on-course, never. “Improved spin numbers on high face hits”. They never try to show if this is true or not. “Better ball speeds across a larger portion of the face”. Again, never testing this.
All they do is hit balls, “Whats my ball speed and distance?” They do SUCH a disservice to the consumer by not testing the actual changes in the iterations.


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Yeah, and I kind of get what crossfield means. I realize he’s a good golfer and most will perform the same for him on average over the course of the review. I like how he goes into sound and feel as those are big differentiators now, but it would be nice to test some of those other things too.

At least he does advocate for us to all get fit and doesn’t say they’re all the same.

Lately it’s been the TXG guys I’ve been learning more from, and Matt is pretty damn hard to relate to on swing speed


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8 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Going through some of the YouTube videos on the SIM drivers and just got onto Rick Shiels video which he kicked off by saying Shape in Motion or Slightly Improved Marketing for what SIM stands for and this is just another thing that's really irked me about his channel in recent months, and really the last year on the whole.

I know others agree with him, but as someone with an engineering background and as someone who would LOVE to be designing golf clubs for a company like TaylorMade, I just find the whole "it's all marketing BS" stuff so insulting. I mean, obviously marketing is going to dress up stuff to make it more appealing to consumers, that's literally their job, but it doesn't make the engineering that goes into these clubs any less real and it's incredibly insulting to the very intelligent people who put in countless hours of work designing these clubs to label them in that way.

End rant.

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Im right with you @FrogginBullfish, I'm an engineer as well and would love to be working for TM or any other as well. BUT i'm kinda on the opposite spectrum of this. As an engineer an having an interest in all the tech that goes into clubs these days, I think they just slapped a bigger weight onto the back, accentuated the big bar on the bottom and then handed it over to the graphic department to paint it.

@FrogginBullfish @J.B. TexasEx I'm with ya on the Rick Shiels videos. I do watch them do get a little insight, opinion, and entertainment. I do think he was pretty honest on this video for a change though. He said it was good but dont necessarily upgrade. I'm sure that doesnt make TM feel good but its the truth for consumers. The 0.4mph is way to small of a difference. He only hits 10 drivers of each and he did hit the M5 AFTER hitting the SIM and SIM Max. 20 drives prolly doesnt wear him out but... 10 drives as your sample size isnt very sufficient.

I still think this SIM will be a GREAT driver (haven't hit it yet) BUT I would much much rather spend money on a M5/M6 (which I already own).

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23 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

 


Yeah, and I kind of get what crossfield means. I realize he’s a good golfer and most will perform the same for him on average over the course of the review. I like how he goes into sound and feel as those are big differentiators now, but it would be nice to test some of those other things too.

At least he does advocate for us to all get fit and doesn’t say they’re all the same.

Lately it’s been the TXG guys I’ve been learning more from, and Matt is pretty damn hard to relate to on swing speed emoji23.png


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Most people with consistent strike location don’t see anything significant from year to year...granted the meaning of significant will vary by individual. Those who are less consistent tend to see an improvement in dispersion and/or distance from new designs thanks to the tech and other changes.

Matt or other elite players are hard to relate to for many amatuers but the data can still be used to see how things change when a strike moves off center. Ball speed, launch, etc for those strike against normal strike to see the “loss” as well as comparing similar strikes to other heads. the results will vary from golfer to golfer but seeing how the tech affects that bad strike still can yield useful information 

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8 hours ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

But, Shiels only picked up .4 mph versus TM's last driver right? At 113 mph that doesn't make a big difference in performance. For slower swingers there's even less upside.

For results-oriented, non-engineers SIM is marketing BS.

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Matty from TXG picked up like 2MPH club speed and the guys had what I’d at least consider a reasonable explanation for it. You should look at their SIM vs M5 driver test. As with pretty much anything anywhere, results may vary.

On a separate note, I gotta give credit where credit is due. The more I read about and watch these videos on SIM, the more I’m thinking my original take was bass ackwards and I need to try this thing!

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For the doubters.

 

Note the standard deviation differences, note the consistency, and DEFINITELY note a 10 yard gain vs M5. If you believe Rick Shiels, and Crossfield who don’t go as in-depth, you need to start watching TXG reviews instead!

 

 

 

 

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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

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But, Shiels only picked up .4 mph versus TM's last driver right? At 113 mph that doesn't make a big difference in performance. For slower swingers there's even less upside.

For results-oriented, non-engineers SIM is marketing BS.

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Shiels isn’t testing what TM claims are the improvements. See my post above... If Shiels is your one and only source, you’re doing a disservice.
How about you go test for yourself? We’d love to see how it does for each golfer! If you can go somewhere that has more than stock shafts, and can really dial it in, I’d love to hear what you find! It would be awesome!!!
Watch the TXG video. Very in-depth, the opposite of Shiels.


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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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More for the doubters who don’t want to watch the full TXG video. Pay attention to Standard Deviation, the small number below all of the averages. Much tighter for SIM. If you want just ball speed and distance? That’s there too...

Tighter numbers, better ball speeds, lower spin, and more distance. For Matt Blois, SIM is DEFINITELY better than M5!

FYI: same shafts, same club weighting as well!!!

IMG_1704.thumb.JPG.951aed2e618eff6999f4848db87d3cc4.JPG

 

 

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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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For the doubters.
 
Note the standard deviation differences, note the consistency, and DEFINITELY note a 10 yard gain vs M5. If you believe Rick Shiels, and Crossfield who don’t go as in-depth, you need to start watching TXG reviews instead!
 
 

 
 
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Even in their quick preview video they kept mentioning how stable it was compared to M5. Really interested in the driver CG report for this year! I expect they will move a lot from M5 to SIM


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The 80g steel weight is in the standard SIM which comes with the adjustable loft sleeve.

The V steel sole on the Max versions is still quite heavy for the reasons you mention that were talked about in the TXG video with Tomo, though I haven't seen any mention of actual mass specs for this version.

They wanted improved performance on low strikes and removing the loft sleeve also allowed them to have the Thru-Slot Speed Pocket cover the entirety of the club face.

I asked Tony about it on Twitter as well. He also cited optimizing weight placement. My curiosity about its removal came more at the expense of fitting ability though which I mentioned to Tony, to which he replied, "argument is that with 3 models and a variety of loft options, there’s enough on the table to leverage the performance benefits without limiting your ability to fit golfers."

I'm not sure I agree with the argument that there's enough on the table as custom fitting is about more than just loft. Those sleeves gave lie adjustments too and that's the biggest loss, in my opinion, for players who'd fit into the SIM Max fairways and rescues. Might not matter to some players I guess but it might be enough to take the SIM fairways or rescues out of the fitting equation for some players.

All that being said though, the performance of the SIM metalwoods is looking very strong and I must admit the driver sole design is growing on me. I'm looking forward to giving them a test at some point this year.


They talk about it a bit in the TXG video. If I remember correctly, they put 80g of weight in the sole of the fairway so there’s weight behind the face where the ball makes contact, so removing the sleeve was necessary to get this additional weight down there. Optimizing ball speed off the face. Contact is made low on the face due to hitting off the deck. One has to have weight behind where contact is made to improve the ball numbers.


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IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

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7 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Pay attention to Standard Deviation, the small number below all of the averages.

Standard deviation for ball speed really stuck out to me when I watched the video. Yes, the sample size is small, but Matty is a pretty good swinger of the golf club and saw a 1.3 MPH improvement in deviation! That's impressive!!! That should tell you that the club is either A - hotter on mishits, or B - more stable through impact leading to more consistent strike. You could argue that he hit M5 first and wasn't warmed up, but they went back to M5 at the end to validate what they were seeing. 

Are the improvements earth-shattering? No. Can they help you? Yes, especially coming from much older equipment. Obviously, it should be noted that a guy like Matty is going to see more benefit from the changes than a lot of golfers, but it doesn't mean the engineering doesn't work. Marketing over-hyped? Probably, nearly every OEM does it - even Titleist hopped on the boat with the release of TS and T-Series.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
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11 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

The 80g steel weight is in the standard SIM which comes with the adjustable loft sleeve.

The V steel sole on the Max versions is still quite heavy for the reasons you mention that were talked about in the TXG video with Tomo, though I haven't seen any mention of actual mass specs for this version.

They wanted improved performance on low strikes and removing the loft sleeve also allowed them to have the Thru-Slot Speed Pocket cover the entirety of the club face.

I asked Tony about it on Twitter as well. He also cited optimizing weight placement. My curiosity about its removal came more at the expense of fitting ability though which I mentioned to Tony, to which he replied, "argument is that with 3 models and a variety of loft options, there’s enough on the table to leverage the performance benefits without limiting your ability to fit golfers."

I'm not sure I agree with the argument that there's enough on the table as custom fitting is about more than just loft. Those sleeves gave lie adjustments too and that's the biggest loss, in my opinion, for players who'd fit into the SIM Max fairways and rescues. Might not matter to some players I guess but it might be enough to take the SIM fairways or rescues out of the fitting equation for some players.

All that being said though, the performance of the SIM metalwoods is looking very strong and I must admit the driver sole design is growing on me. I'm looking forward to giving them a test at some point this year.

 


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I think the number of golfers who would need that type of lie adjustment on a fairway are pretty small. Tony's assessment seems pretty fair in IMO. Enough options there to fit all, but a very select few.

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It's a fair assessment.

 

I just feel like it's better to have it and not need it than not to have it and wind up needing it.

I think the number of golfers who would need that type of lie adjustment on a fairway are pretty small. Tony's assessment seems pretty fair in IMO. Enough options there to fit all, but a very select few.

 

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DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind)

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Great article on the woods and hybrid. The ZATECH titanium is interesting 
 

https://mygolfspy.com/taylormade-sim-fairway-wood-hybrid-review/

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Great article on the woods and hybrid. The ZATECH titanium is interesting 
 

https://mygolfspy.com/taylormade-sim-fairway-wood-hybrid-review/

I started to post about the ZATECH as well. I’m very curious about it. Google ZATECH titanium and the top result is Zatech Co. an oil and gas engineering and supply company.

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Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
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Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
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48 minutes ago, PMookie said:

More for the doubters who don’t want to watch the full TXG video. Pay attention to Standard Deviation, the small number below all of the averages. Much tighter for SIM. If you want just ball speed and distance? That’s there too...

Tighter numbers, better ball speeds, lower spin, and more distance. For Matt Blois, SIM is DEFINITELY better than M5!

FYI: same shafts, same club weighting as well!!!

IMG_1704.thumb.JPG.951aed2e618eff6999f4848db87d3cc4.JPG

 

 

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The guy in the TXG video has a 117mph swing speed!!!! He's faster than most tour pro's! Essentially hes in the top 0.05% of golfers haha.  (my guess on %)

Doing a QUICK Google search:

The average male amateur's swing speed is 93.4 miles per hour, according to research by TrackMan, for an average distance of 214 yards. Using TrackMan's "optimal" distance, the average golfer's potential is 255 yards at that same swing speed

I wanna see the average 90-95mph swing player with like a 10 hdcp (bad eough that there are mishits, good enough that they have the ability to make good contact).

Charleston, SC

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Just now, JonMUSC08 said:

The guy in the TXG video has a 117mph swing speed!!!! He's faster than most tour pro's! Essentially hes in the top 0.05% of golfers haha.  (my guess on %)

Doing a QUICK Google search:

The average male amateur's swing speed is 93.4 miles per hour, according to research by TrackMan, for an average distance of 214 yards. Using TrackMan's "optimal" distance, the average golfer's potential is 255 yards at that same swing speed

I wanna see the average 90-95mph swing player with like a 10 hdcp (bad eough that there are mishits, good enough that they have the ability to make good contact).

What the hell does swing speed have to do with standard deviation on a direct head to head comparison?

 

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Clearly we have a hard time understanding how engineering for aerodynamics works and posts like this don’t help...

62FA2199-4043-47D1-859A-9AB673A8C4C8.thumb.png.b929ea734fc4ebe0d82cbbd74c15de10.png

I gave the SIM a hard time about being a copy of the F9 before being corrected about the M6. Shiels’ comparison isn’t even close! 

Edited by TR1PTIK

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
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13 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

But does avg Joe consumer know that? They see atmos blue and see it on tv to them it’s the same

This is my take from the whole thread.  I've said it before either in this thread or one of the blog comments.   This forum and others are the 1% of golfers who get into this type stuff and get worked up about i....some do I don't.  

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the average guy watching the PGA Tour on TV has no idea what shaft is in DJ"s Rory's or Tigers driver...they couldn't pick it out of a lineup of baseball bats. I say this as I speak to many of them when they come through our shop or come into my office to ask about a club.  Shaft type questions rarely ever comes up other than the flex. 

  The OEM's sell to these viewers much more than they do the Forum members.  I've spoken to marketing and R&D people at several of the major OEM's and they LOVE us us---the 1%---and love our passion for the game and equipment, but production and marketing decisions are not targeted to us.   They just aren't! 

3 hours ago, PMookie said:


They talk about it a bit in the TXG video. If I remember correctly, they put 80g of weight in the sole of the fairway so there’s weight behind the face where the ball makes contact, so removing the sleeve was necessary to get this additional weight down there. Optimizing ball speed off the face. Contact is made low on the face due to hitting off the deck. One has to have weight behind where contact is made to improve the ball numbers.


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It was also mentioned in Tony's piece on the FW/Hybrids.   Which he commented on Twitter that nobody wants to read about FW/hybrids but he still has to write about them. 😎  I am a bit different in this aspect as the FW' and hybrids are the most important part of my bag, as I generally carry 5 to 6 of them combined.  

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So not to get lost in my post above.  I'm very interested in the driver and high-lofted FW most likely either SIM Max or SIM TI in 18 degrees.  I'll have a chance to be fit for them in April.  Looking forward to it...if I can wait that long..ha

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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18 minutes ago, JonMUSC08 said:

The guy in the TXG video has a 117mph swing speed!!!! He's faster than most tour pro's! Essentially hes in the top 0.05% of golfers haha.  (my guess on %)

Doing a QUICK Google search:

The average male amateur's swing speed is 93.4 miles per hour, according to research by TrackMan, for an average distance of 214 yards. Using TrackMan's "optimal" distance, the average golfer's potential is 255 yards at that same swing speed

I wanna see the average 90-95mph swing player with like a 10 hdcp (bad eough that there are mishits, good enough that they have the ability to make good contact).

Not to be a downer on technology, but $500 on lessons is going to benefit that type of golfer a whole lot more than $500 on new driver, unless they are playing something that is more than 10 years old.

Matt is a high swing speed player, but most importantly he's relatively repeatable which is great for their head-to-head testing.

To be honest, I like the look of these drivers and hope to have a shot to hit them this season. 

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
Riding On: 
image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

 

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8 minutes ago, edingc said:

Not to be a downer on technology, but $500 on lessons is going to benefit that type of golfer a whole lot more than $500 on new driver, unless they are playing something that is more than 10 years old.

Matt is a high swing speed player, but most importantly he's relatively repeatable which is great for their head-to-head testing.

To be honest, I like the look of these drivers and hope to have a shot to hit them this season. 

Is it?  I hear that all the time, but it's simply not the case.

Getting lessons is one thing.  Putting the time in to practice, make the swing changes and really commit to implement what you are learning in the lessons is a whole other ballgame.

I would guess at least half of the people that get lessons don't fully commit to the swing changes and never improve.  So that is $500 down the drain. 

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34 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Clearly we have a hard time understanding how engineering for aerodynamics works and posts like this don’t help...

62FA2199-4043-47D1-859A-9AB673A8C4C8.thumb.png.b929ea734fc4ebe0d82cbbd74c15de10.png

I gave the SIM a hard time about being a copy of the F9 before being corrected about the M6. Shiels’ comparison isn’t even close! 

Just another reason why I’ve stopped paying attention to rick. I comment every so often on his Twitter but he’s become more click bait and dare I say ignorant of tech and who does what. I almost laughed when watching Pete’s video about his testing for his new bag as he went on about how much in the know and a guru rick is

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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8 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Is it?  I hear that all the time, but it's simply not the case.

Getting lessons is one thing.  Putting the time in to practice, make the swing changes and really commit to implement what you are learning in the lessons is a whole other ballgame.

I would guess at least half of the people that get lessons don't fully commit to the swing changes and never improve.  So that is $500 down the drain. 

You are correct. Practice and committing to change was an unstated assumption.

If that's the case, by all means get the driver. 

 

Unofficial WHS Handicap: 7.5 / Anti-Cap: 13.0 (Last Updated Feb. 19, 2024)

Driver: callaway_logo.png.3dd18aa65544000dd0ea3901697a8261.png Callaway Paradym TD (10.5°, -1/N), 45.75", Fujikura Motore X F1 6X | Fitting Post
3 Wood: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra RadSpeed Big Tour (14.5°), 43", Fujikura Motore X F1 7X
20° Hybrid: PXG_Logo.png.8401024d1fb8aec46f0e790c1aa5b80c.png PXG 0211 (2020 Model), 40.25", Mitsubishi Tensei AV RAW White 90X
4 Utility: 
cobra_logo.png.190908c8b4518eec87c087429e4343ee.png Cobra KING Utility (2020 Model), 38.5", Aerotech SteelFiber i110cw Stiff
5-PW:
logo-Ben-Hogan-large.png.98d743ae5487285c6406a1e30a0a63b5.png Ben Hogan PTx Pro, 37" 7 Iron, Aerotech SteelFiber i125cw Stiff | Club Champion Fitting
50°, 54°, 58°:
231036130_Edel_Golf_Logo_v2_grandecopy.png.13cc76b963f8dd59f06d04b1e8df2827.png Edel SMS, V Grind, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge| Official Review Thread
Putter:
image.png.49fcc172a1ed0010d930fbe1c5dc8b79.png L.A.B. Golf DF 2.1, 36", 68°, Black with Custom Sightlines, BGT Stability Tour, L.A.B. Press II 3° | Unofficial Review
Grips: 
stargrip.png.4285948f41f1409613266e7803f0bbaa.png Star Sidewinder, Undersized with Custom Tape Build-Up
Ball: :Snell:Snell MTB-X Optic Yellow

Tracked By: shotscope.png.4a7089f2bddff325285b1266a61dda03.png  Shot Scope H4
Bag: :1590477705_SunMountain: Personalized 2020 Sun Mountain Sync
Riding On: 
image.png.1db52ce91db040317a9ac580f1df8de8.pngBag Boy Nitron | Official Review Thread

WITB? | 2022 Reviewer Edel SMS Wedges | 2021 Reviewer Maxfli Tour and Tour X Balls2020 Participant #CobraConnect Challenge | 2019 Reviewer Callaway Epic Flash Driver

 

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I see both sides of the equipment vs. lessons argument and IMO it really just depends on the specific scenario as to which is more beneficial. Considering a LOT of golfers have more money than sense, lessons over equipment tends to be applicable in most cases, but you can also look at it this way...

I think the consensus among most in the know is that any driver from a major OEM over the past five years is pretty comparable to the latest and greatest. So, if a golfer were to exercise some self control and keep a club in the bag for longer than six months that’s $100 per year. While there are still instructors offering better prices there are more and more charging upward of $100 per lesson which lasts 45 minutes to an hour. Where you get the most bang for the buck will be relative to your current ability, but from where I’m standing (2013 driver and a better than average swinger of the golf club), I’m going to pick new driver all day long.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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I like the look of it. I currently don’t have a driver as I’ve gotten rid of the epic. If this played like a more forgiving SLDR I’d be in. Not a fan of the made for Ventus. I hit that shaft in a fitting and would def like it in a new FW.

Hopefully they’ll offer the real one at a low up charge but I’m not holding my breathe. 

For the drivers I’ve seen this year this is the one i wanna try the most

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

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43 minutes ago, edingc said:

Not to be a downer on technology, but $500 on lessons is going to benefit that type of golfer a whole lot more than $500 on new driver, unless they are playing something that is more than 10 years old.

Matt is a high swing speed player, but most importantly he's relatively repeatable which is great for their head-to-head testing.

To be honest, I like the look of these drivers and hope to have a shot to hit them this season. 

 

33 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Is it?  I hear that all the time, but it's simply not the case.

Getting lessons is one thing.  Putting the time in to practice, make the swing changes and really commit to implement what you are learning in the lessons is a whole other ballgame.

I would guess at least half of the people that get lessons don't fully commit to the swing changes and never improve.  So that is $500 down the drain. 

Nailed my thoughts.

17 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I see both sides of the equipment vs. lessons argument and IMO it really just depends on the specific scenario as to which is more beneficial. Considering a LOT of golfers have more money than sense, lessons over equipment tends to be applicable in most cases, but you can also look at it this way...

I think the consensus among most in the know is that any driver from a major OEM over the past five years is pretty comparable to the latest and greatest. So, if a golfer were to exercise some self control and keep a club in the bag for longer than six months that’s $100 per year. While there are still instructors offering better prices there are more and more charging upward of $100 per lesson which lasts 45 minutes to an hour. Where you get the most bang for the buck will be relative to your current ability, but from where I’m standing (2013 driver and a better than average swinger of the golf club), I’m going to pick new driver all day long.

Reading thru this forum and others the abundance of money isn’t there. Numerous guys post about not buying new because they can’t afford it, selecting balls based on price and accepting potential lesser quality. Many even post about not being able to afford lessons. There’s also a lack of time available to the general golfer which we read about across forums. Between work, family and other stuff many golfers have time for a round a week and are rushing to get home after the round to either do chores or spend time with family (nothing wrong with that) so committing limited resources of time and money is a factor for many.

purchasing a piece of gear at $500 that will get used for several years is a better investment for that type of golfer and from a tech and seeing an improvement in performance of said tech that timeframe is about right

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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21 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Reading thru this forum and others the abundance of money isn’t there.

Keep in mind that the golfers actively participating in forums are probably in the minority. We’re all here because we share the same passion, want to learn more, and want to figure out how to get the most from what we have. I was speaking more so about the average golfer who doesn’t invest that kind of time to really learn the game. They have some modest ability and keep looking to equipment to help them achieve some sort of miracle break through. Maybe they’ve had a lesson or two, but never took much to heart because as soon as they actually started working on changes they saw a dip in score and figured there was a better way. I think we all see plenty of these types of golfers at the course on a weekly basis.

For that golfer, their money is better spent on lessons and range balls than equipment IMO (provides they stick with it). Otherwise they’d do better to just spend the money on more golf.

Edited by TR1PTIK

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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18 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Keep in mind that the golfers actively participating in forums are probably in the minority. We’re all here because we share the same passion, want to learn more, and want to figure out how to get the most from what we have. I was speaking more so about the average golfer who doesn’t invest that kind of time to really learn the game. They have some modest ability and keep looking to equipment to help them achieve some sort of miracle break through. Maybe they’ve had a lesson or two, but never took much to heart because as soon as they actually started working on changes they saw a dip in score and figured there was a better way. I think we all see plenty of these types of golfers at the course on a weekly basis.

For that golfer, their money is better spent on lessons and range balls than equipment IMO (provides they stick with it). Otherwise they’d do better to just spend the money on more golf.

The average golfer doesn’t have the time or desire to get better it’s why irons, woods and hybrids that offer help getting the ball in the air are made and usually the better selling products. I spend the vast majority of my time around the average non forum golfer at driving ranges and playing all kinds of courses from higher end pricing to military courses. This includes guys that have money and time. They spend their money and free time doing other activities and don’t care to take lessons. Some of the guys I’ve talked to in random pairings have talked about taking a lesson here and there but never really practice and same have even said they know they need to spend time practicing even if they don’t take a lesson, but they prefer to either just play or do their other activities. 
 

The number of newer clubs I see at courses and the range are low and in many cases irons are 5+ years old and drivers 2-3. I know new clubs are being bought as I’m friends with the fitter at the range and have an idea how much he does in business each year. Ive talked for instructors who have students that come in for weekly lessons and don’t practice from lesson to lesson and see little to no improvement.


 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 hours ago, PMookie said:


Shiels isn’t testing what TM claims are the improvements. See my post above... If Shiels is your one and only source, you’re doing a disservice.
How about you go test for yourself? We’d love to see how it does for each golfer! If you can go somewhere that has more than stock shafts, and can really dial it in, I’d love to hear what you find! It would be awesome!!!
Watch the TXG video. Very in-depth, the opposite of Shiels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Too in-depth, IMO. I don't care to get bogged down in TXG's level of minutiae. The 117 mph swinger @ TXG is even less relevant to me.

Not to be argumentative, but the average swing speed on Tour is what? 112 mph? That aligns with Shiels review. He's not my "only source", but I trust his topline insights. He's usually concise and to the point and I like his style. To each his own.

But, I do look forward to reading the MGS reviews from our contributors and spies once we mere mortals give 'em a swing.

Edited by J.B. TexasEx

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

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