Jump to content
Testers Announced! Callaway Paradym Ai Smoke Drivers and Autoflex Dream 7 Shafts! ×

Taylormade SIM drivers - Thoughts?


JonMUSC08

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The number of newer clubs I see at courses and the range are low and in many cases irons are 5+ years old and drivers 2-3. I know new clubs are being bought as I’m friends with the fitter at the range and have an idea how much he does in business each year. I've talked for instructors who have students that come in for weekly lessons and don’t practice from lesson to lesson and see little to no improvement.
 

This describes me to a tee, but I've got an 8-year old son so who has time for focused practice?

I also work part-time at a suburban DFW country club. I like to peek into the members' bags to see what they're gaming. Most of the "better" players have relatively new sticks, maybe only 2-3 years old. Quite a few carry the PXGs, so you know they're more affluent and are "buying the dream", so to speak. 

I haven't seen too many still playing with 20-year old Hogans, like me. I have run into a couple guys still playing Ping Eye 2.

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

Matty from TXG picked up like 2MPH club speed and the guys had what I’d at least consider a reasonable explanation for it. You should look at their SIM vs M5 driver test. As with pretty much anything anywhere, results may vary.

On a separate note, I gotta give credit where credit is due. The more I read about and watch these videos on SIM, the more I’m thinking my original take was bass ackwards and I need to try this thing!

I'll give TXG's review a cursory glance. It'll be interesting to see what 2 mph did for Matty.

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The number of newer clubs I see at courses and the range are low and in many cases irons are 5+ years old and drivers 2-3. I know new clubs are being bought as I’m friends with the fitter at the range and have an idea how much he does in business each year. Ive talked for instructors who have students that come in for weekly lessons and don’t practice from lesson to lesson and see little to no improvement.

If they’re drivers are 2-3 years old they aren’t likely to see that large a jump in performance. Some improvement yes, but they could hold onto that driver for a couple more years and not be at much of a disadvantage. 
 

The point of my argument was that their money would be better spent on lessons in this scenario with the caveat that they actually do the work because that’s going to save them more strokes than a new driver hands down. The whole excuse of not having time is exactly that, an excuse. It’s a matter of priorities.
 

For those you describe in your example they honestly would be better off to not spend their money on lessons or equipment because any improvement would be marginal.They could either wait another couple years to purchase the new driver or invest in lessons and then follow up on it with practice. That’s the difference.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

Too in-depth, IMO. I don't care to get bogged down in TXG's level of minutiae. The 117 mph swinger @ TXG is even less relevant to me.

Not to be argumentative, but the average swing speed on Tour is what? 112 mph? That aligns with Shiels review. He's not my "only source", but I trust his topline reviews. He's usually concise and to the point and I like his style. To each his own.

But, I do look forward to reading the MGS reviews from our contributors and spies once us mere mortals give 'em a swing.

If you watch TXG and all you care about is the numbers that Matt is putting up rather than the discussions that occur in between each shot and the insight Ian brings about technology and fitting, than you are watching TXG for the wrong reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

If they’re drivers are 2-3 years old they aren’t likely to see that large a jump in performance. Some improvement yes, but they could hold onto that driver for a couple more years and not be at much of a disadvantage. 
 

The point of my argument was that their money would be better spent on lessons in this scenario with the caveat that they actually do the work because that’s going to save them more strokes than a new driver hands down. The whole excuse of not having time is exactly that, an excuse. It’s a matter of priorities.
 

For those you describe in your example they honestly would be better off to not spend their money on lessons or equipment because any improvement would be marginal.They could either wait another couple years to purchase the new driver or invest in lessons and then follow up on it with practice. That’s the difference.

You stated that people have more money than sense. I argued that people don’t have much money as you think but that it’s also not just a case of money but time. Golfers regardless of on forums or not lack either of those or both. The subset of golfers with money to spend on continuous lessons and the time to work on what they learn is probably the same small percentage of golfers on forum. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, jlukes said:

If you watch TXG and all you care about is the numbers that Matt is putting up rather than the discussions that occur in between each shot and the insight Ian brings about technology and fitting, than you are watching TXG for the wrong reasons.

True story. 

That's probably why I don't watch TXG very often. Their reviews are too long and I lose interest, so I stopped following them on YouTube. I see their SIMs review is only 15 minutes long, though. 

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

You stated that people have more money than sense. I argued that people don’t have much money as you think but that it’s also not just a case of money but time. Golfers regardless of on forums or not lack either of those or both. The subset of golfers with money to spend on continuous lessons and the time to work on what they learn is probably the same small percentage of golfers on forum. 

If you currently own a driver within the 5 year window and decide to throw $500 at a driver that will only provide marginal benefit then you have more money than sense. That is my argument. 
 

As for practice and lessons, I have personally improved my game via both while starting a family, being a full-time student, and maintaining a full-time job. Even within the past few years I have worked as many as three jobs at one time while supporting my family and finding time to practice. I had a full-time night shift job, a weekend gig at the golf course, and mowed as many as eight yards per week by myself using a push mower. Time is what you make of it.

At this point we’re so far off the original topic it’s laughable.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

True story. 

That's probably why I don't watch TXG very often. Their reviews are too long and I lose interest, so I stopped following them on YouTube. I see their SIMs review is only 15 minutes long, though. 

Funny. I’ve almost completely stopped watching Shiels and unsubscribed from his channel for the opposite reason. He’s gone from legitimate tester/reviewer sharing meaningful data to clickbait/hot-take social media “influencer”.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, JonMUSC08 said:

I still think this SIM will be a GREAT driver (haven't hit it yet) BUT I would much much rather spend money on a M5/M6 (which I already own).

All the newfangled drivers look great to me, including the SIMs. I skimmed through the TXG review and Matty got nice benefit from it versus the M5 at 117 mph, average +13 yards and reduced spin -500 rpms, if I read their review correctly. I just don't have the budget to optimize my driver with the latest Ventus shafts. My swing speed is 105 mph on the high end, so let's say 102?

What's that gonna get me MGS engineers? I'm curious. And yes, I know there's other variable to consider; swing path, face deflection, launch angles, etc.

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

All the newfangled drivers look great to me, including the SIMs. I skimmed through the TXG review and Matty got nice benefit from it versus the M5 at 117 mph, average +13 yards and reduced spin -500 rpms, if I read their review correctly. I just don't have the budget to optimize my driver with the latest Ventus shafts. My swing speed is 105 mph on the high end, so let's say 102?

What's that gonna get me MGS engineers? I'm curious. And yes, I know there's other variable to consider; swing path, face deflection, launch angles, etc.

That is pretty much what TrueGolfFit will tell you.  Put in your swing parameters and it will give you the best driver.  The database will be updated in a few months to include all of the new stuff.

And this information is free if all you have is Swing Speed

https://mygolfspy.com/2019-most-wanted-the-best-drivers-for-mid-swing-speeds/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@J.B. TexasEx Google says that 1 mph in clubs speed = 3.16 yards.  Obviously many more factors that go into it as well.... but generally speaking

...cue someone to make ridiculous comments, that you can't assume that, more factors, Rick Shiels says otherwise, TXG thinks its 3.34yds based on their Canadian altitude etc. 😂

Charleston, SC

HDCP 13.0

  • Driver: :taylormade-small:  M6 9* with 65g Stiff Mitsubishi Tensei Red shaft
  • 3 wood: :ping-small:  G425 stiff shaft
  • 5 wood: :taylormade-small: Stealth 2 stiff shaft
  • 4-gw irons:  :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal w/ X-stiff KBS 130gr shafts (soft stepped)
  • Wedges: :taylormade-small: MG3 52, 56, 60 
  • Putter: 34" Scotty Cameron 12.5
  • Ball: :titelist-small: ProV-1x
  • Tracked By: :Arccos:

MGS Tester '20 - :ping-small: G710 Iron Review

MGS Tester '19 - :918457628_PrecisionPro:Precision Pro NX9 HD Pro laser rangefinder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, jlukes said:

That is pretty much what TrueGolfFit will tell you.  Put in your swing parameters and it will give you the best driver.  The database will be updated in a few months to include all of the new stuff.

And this information is free if all you have is Swing Speed

https://mygolfspy.com/2019-most-wanted-the-best-drivers-for-mid-swing-speeds/

Thanks

I looked at the Tommy Armour last year and almost purchased one, but the Golf Galaxy near me sucks. I couldn't get anyone to help me for 10+ minutes, said F it, and left. I purchased a "new" 2017 Srixon z565 online last year for only $170 and it's been good to me. My misses are definitely better and I've hit a couple of my longest drives ever. Certainly an upgrade from my 2007 Cleveland HiBore with stock Fujikara shaft!

Edited by J.B. TexasEx

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, JonMUSC08 said:

@J.B. TexasEx Google says that 1 mph in clubs speed = 3.16 yards.  Obviously many more factors that go into it as well.... but generally speaking

...cue someone to make ridiculous comments, that you can't assume that, more factors, Rick Shiels says otherwise, TXG thinks its 3.34yds based on their Canadian altitude etc. 😂

I’m a bit confused at this point what the argument is. Is the argument that the technological improvements are just hyperbolic marketing bs or that there just isn’t enough data to validate a new purchase over the previous years model?

I ask because the engineering appears to work based on what’s been shown so far. Sure, the marketing department is going to build it up as the next big thing but I don’t even recall the last time an OEM advertised specific yardage gains (maybe X-Hot?). Most claims are pretty vague anymore; “more speed”, “more distance” are the typical slogans and they aren’t TECHNICALLY wrong. I think we just have a tendency to read into it based on past experience. Sites like MGS have caused OEMs to take notice by conducting proper research on the golf industry and posting their findings for Joe Public free of charge. And yes, mileage may vary, but it the tech still works. Unfortunately, there’s often just more benefit for higher speed players than lower speed players

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I’m a bit confused at this point what the argument is. Is the argument that the technological improvements are just hyperbolic marketing bs or that there just isn’t enough data to validate a new purchase over the previous years model?

I ask because the engineering appears to work based on what’s been shown so far. Sure, the marketing department is going to build it up as the next big thing but I don’t even recall the last time an OEM advertised specific yardage gains (maybe X-Hot?). Most claims are pretty vague anymore; “more speed”, “more distance” are the typical slogans and they aren’t TECHNICALLY wrong. I think we just have a tendency to read into it based on past experience. Sites like MGS have caused OEMs to take notice by conducting proper research on the golf industry and posting their findings for Joe Public free of charge. And yes, mileage may vary, but it the tech still works. Unfortunately, there’s often just more benefit for higher speed players than lower speed players

He asked what 1 more mph in club head is equal to. VERY VERY VERY general statement.

More detailed answer... EVERY aspect of physics will change distance. EVERY brand will say their newest technology is the best over the prior year. If not, why would they release it. Example, the TM SLDR driver is very long and could still beat out drivers in DISTANCE (maybe not forgiveness) compared to drivers that came out after it.

Thread is getting a little ridiculous... the only one that can say if its a good driver or not is yourself. If you hit it better than what you currently have then its better. If its equal or not, than its not better. How cares if its a true or copy Ventus shaft. Most players dont wanna pay the extra money for one anyway nor do they need to.

Marketing is not necessarily BS. Its used to inform and intrigue consumers to becoming interested in the product.

Charleston, SC

HDCP 13.0

  • Driver: :taylormade-small:  M6 9* with 65g Stiff Mitsubishi Tensei Red shaft
  • 3 wood: :ping-small:  G425 stiff shaft
  • 5 wood: :taylormade-small: Stealth 2 stiff shaft
  • 4-gw irons:  :mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal w/ X-stiff KBS 130gr shafts (soft stepped)
  • Wedges: :taylormade-small: MG3 52, 56, 60 
  • Putter: 34" Scotty Cameron 12.5
  • Ball: :titelist-small: ProV-1x
  • Tracked By: :Arccos:

MGS Tester '20 - :ping-small: G710 Iron Review

MGS Tester '19 - :918457628_PrecisionPro:Precision Pro NX9 HD Pro laser rangefinder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, JonMUSC08 said:

He asked what 1 more mph in club head is equal to. VERY VERY VERY general statement

Unless I missed something, his question was much more vague than that, but thanks for explaining. 

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

I’m a bit confused at this point what the argument is. Is the argument that the technological improvements are just hyperbolic marketing bs or that there just isn’t enough data to validate a new purchase over the previous years model?

Every manufacturer makes vague, hyperbolic claims when they launch new clubs especially drivers.

But, TM's new SIM tech appears to do what it says based on initial testing by TXG, Shiels, and others. Based on @JonMUSC08's google search, we can expect to gain maybe 3.2 yards per mph increase in swing speed. Shiels claims to have only gained .4 mph with SIM vs M5.

Here's the argument: is 3-8 yards worth the $550 sticker price to most golfers if they're only gaining .4 to 2 mph. Hell, is 8 yards to the mid-handicapper? Maybe, but he doesn't swing 117 mph like Matty with consistent swing path, face angle, etc. An inconsistent 13.4 like me at 102 mph isn't gonna get as much bang for the buck.

But, we've already established I'm cheap so TM obviously isn't marketing to guys like me. 😜 

Edited by J.B. TexasEx

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Middler said:

They are marketing to guys like you and everyone else. But not everyone buys into the not so subtle claims...

I guess so, since we're debating the SIM's merits here. I look forward to reviewing MGS testing on 2020's latest drivers.

Edited by J.B. TexasEx

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know, I thought TXG made it quite clear all of last year that the M5, much like the M3 before it, was not a good fit for Matt -- too low spin. And as much as Ian wanted to game the M5, he really struggled to get his ball speeds up with it when compared to the Callaway and Ping drivers he was testing.

Maybe it just seems like they're dumping on the M5 more because of how much better the SIM has been for Matt?

What I learned from the TXG video is they didn't much care for the M5 - I wonder if they said that when it came out (nope)? Understandably all the YT channels are very reluctant to differentiate between clubs/brands, you really have to read between the lines to get any sense. Funny thing is Crossfield is probably the most direct about clubs he doesn't like, albeit he can't outright say it either.
The SD is important, but it's not necessarily all in club design, the Indian plays a role too though Matt is clearly outstanding, more consistent than most. Robot testing would tell us more about how the M5 and SIM compare, but I agree real world human dispersion is valuable - it's what we all see, even pros to a lesser extent.
I didn't see where they shared all the data from both the M5 and SIM, but at the point they did share raw data (below), there are some suspect hits with the SIM, the first two are very low launch, crazy low spin and peak height - I wonder if they eliminate any data as outliers, don't know? And one of the M5 hits was 15°. Please look over the peak heights, those are not apples to apples.
It was probably there but I didn't find what lofts they had them both set at. I see the M5 was offered at 9-10.5-12 and the SIM at 8-9-10.5, surely they made sure they were comparing the same lofts. And if the M5 launches a degree higher, dial it down one and compare it to the SIM. Then what? I'd think we should all be choosing the loft that yields the optimal launch angle before just concluding the SIM is better.
And yes this test shows a guy who carries 293 to 303 getting 10 yards more carry. I wonder how many members here are in that league? If we don't address the launch angle we might be 5-7 yards, or nothing if we correct launch angle.
I agree TXG is the most professional. To say Shiels and Crossfield judge based on ball speed and distance only is unfair, and false. They have shared all the same data that TXG does, though I'd agree they don't do it as consistently as they used to.
I'm not looking for an argument either. I am sure all club manufacturers are (usually marginally) improving their clubs from one cycle to the next and it's not just pure BS, and I can be overly cynical about the marketing hype (and fittings as a silver bullet). But I also know that marketing is carefully worded to make a potential buyer believe they'll see more benefit than they usually do, especially the 90% of us with double digit HI's.
Picture1.thumb.jpg.6bc18cc74f5cabfe3b6b847dbf8effeb.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind)

PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

Here's the argument: is 3-8 yards worth the $550 sticker price to most golfers if they're only gaining .4 to 2 mph.

In short, no. Not unless you’re playing competitive golf at a high level where everyone is likely playing the latest and greatest for free or at a significant discount. That’s where my “more money than sense” comment from earlier comes in because plenty of people will make that switch. And I don’t say that simply to insult anyone who does this (if it makes you happy, go for it), but from my perspective it seems like you’re throwing money away for marginal gains. 
 

That said, not everyone falls into the same boat and if you have older equipment like my G25 or even older, you MAY see a bigger improvement.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

Every manufacturer makes vague, hyperbolic claims when they launch new clubs especially drivers.

But, TM's new SIM tech appears to do what it says based on initial testing by TXG, Shiels, and others. Based on @JonMUSC08's google search, we can expect to gain maybe 3.2 yards per mph increase in swing speed. Shiels claims to have only gained .4 mph with SIM vs M5.

Here's the argument: is 3-8 yards worth the $550 sticker price to most golfers if they're only gaining .4 to 2 mph. Hell, is 8 yards to the mid-handicapper? Maybe, but he doesn't swing 117 mph like Matty with consistent swing path, face angle, etc. An inconsistent 13.4 like me at 102 mph isn't gonna get as much bang for the buck.

But, we've already established I'm cheap so TM obviously isn't marketing to guys like me. 😜 

I think the range for what will be worth $550 based on distance gains alone will vary from person to person even in the same hdcp range. For some 3 yards is enough...some pros would take that. For me 3-4 not really as it doesn’t affect clubs selection on approach shots. 5-6 now I might consider it. 6+ I’m in.

another thing some consider is dispersion and/or consistency in distance and dispersion. The comment pmookie made earlier about standard deviation is a very key aspect here imo, also something that txg pointers out and when you look Matt’s shots he didn’t hit one right after they adjusted the weight heel to toe. 
 

give me 3+ yards of carry plus eliminating one side of the course and it’s worth $550 or more if it’s with an upcharge shaft

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Middler said:

OK, now I'm confused. Matt got significantly lower spin numbers with the SIM over the M5...

Lower but consistent. Lower isn’t bad the problem for Matt was the lower ones with m5 were unplayable. There’s a too low spin just like there’s a too high spin mark, both are unplayable.

the standard deviation is what keeps matt lower spin ok with the sim. His numbers were pretty close to optimal and he doesn’t have to worry about a shot getting away from him to the right or falling out of the sky 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Maybe it just seems like they're dumping on the M5 more because of how much better the SIM has been for Matt?

I’d say that’s pretty reasonable. Data aside, you can just see the difference in (simulated) ball flight. The M5 in Matty’s hands was all over the place. He had a couple hooks, some nice bullets, a real floater or two. The SIM on the other hand seemed to maintain a more consistent trajectory. I think he still had a couple fall to the right a bit more than he’d want, but overall much better for him.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The guy in the TXG video has a 117mph swing speed!!!! He's faster than most tour pro's! Essentially hes in the top 0.05% of golfers haha.  (my guess on %)
Doing a QUICK Google search:
The average male amateur's swing speed is 93.4 miles per hour, according to research by TrackMan, for an average distance of 214 yards. Using TrackMan's "optimal" distance, the average golfer's potential is 255 yards at that same swing speed
I wanna see the average 90-95mph swing player with like a 10 hdcp (bad eough that there are mishits, good enough that they have the ability to make good contact).

The great part about the video is they didn’t even talk about swing speed gains. They pointed out that machines have difficulty measuring swing speed in the first place, so on the ball speed, deviation, all of the other parameters that Taylormade claims they have improved are showing to be true. Every single golfer in the world can benefit from More consistency in a driver head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too in-depth, IMO. I don't care to get bogged down in TXG's level of minutiae. The 117 mph swinger @ TXG is even less relevant to me.
Not to be argumentative, but the average swing speed on Tour is what? 112 mph? That aligns with Shiels review. He's not my "only source", but I trust his topline insights. He's usually concise and to the point and I like his style. To each his own.
But, I do look forward to reading the MGS reviews from our contributors and spies once we mere mortals give 'em a swing.

Why get caught up and swing speed? That has nothing to do with the consistency of a driver head, set of irons, fairway woods, or hybrids,. Standard deviation, consistency is what matters. A 90 mile an hour swing is going to benefit from a smaller deviation! The improvements from last year’s model to this year’s model is about forgiveness, and consistency, primarily. This is why you should watch TXG videos so you actually learn about what the manufacturer is saying are the benefits, especially when an engineer from the manufacturer itself is in the video explaining everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

True story. 
That's probably why I don't watch TXG very often. Their reviews are too long and I lose interest, so I stopped following them on YouTube. I see their
is only 15 minutes long, though. 

Watch the video of their initial impressions on the clubs where they have a TaylorMade engineer speaking about the technology. 10 times better, probably 1000 times better, than watching Rick Shiels videos!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I learned from the TXG video is they didn't much care for the M5 - I wonder if they said that when it came out (nope)? Understandably all the YT channels are very reluctant to differentiate between clubs/brands, you really have to read between the lines to get any sense. Funny thing is Crossfield is probably the most direct about clubs he doesn't like, albeit he can't outright say it either.

The SD is important, but it's not necessarily all in club design, the Indian plays a role too though Matt is clearly outstanding, more consistent than most. Robot testing would tell us more about how the M5 and SIM compare, but I agree real world human dispersion is valuable - it's what we all see, even pros to a lesser extent.

I didn't see where they shared all the data from both the M5 and SIM, but at the point they did share raw data (below), there are some suspect hits with the SIM, the first two are very low launch, crazy low spin and peak height - I wonder if they eliminate any data as outliers, don't know? And one of the M5 hits was 15°. Please look over the peak heights, those are not apples to apples.

It was probably there but I didn't find what lofts they had them both set at. I see the M5 was offered at 9-10.5-12 and the SIM at 8-9-10.5, surely they made sure they were comparing the same lofts. And if the M5 launches a degree higher, dial it down one and compare it to the SIM. Then what? I'd think we should all be choosing the loft that yields the optimal launch angle before just concluding the SIM is better.

And yes this test shows a guy who carries 293 to 303 getting 10 yards more carry. I wonder how many members here are in that league? If we don't address the launch angle we might be 5-7 yards, or nothing if we correct launch angle.

I agree TXG is the most professional. To say Shiels and Crossfield judge based on ball speed and distance only is unfair, and false. They have shared all the same data that TXG does, though I'd agree they don't do it as consistently as they used to.

I'm not looking for an argument either. I am sure all club manufacturers are (usually marginally) improving their clubs from one cycle to the next and it's not just pure BS, and I can be overly cynical about the marketing hype (and fittings as a silver bullet). But I also know that marketing is carefully worded to make a potential buyer believe they'll see more benefit than they usually do, especially the 90% of us with double digit HI's.

Picture1.thumb.jpg.6bc18cc74f5cabfe3b6b847dbf8effeb.jpg

Watch the TXG video for yourself and you will have all the answers to your questions and doubts

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Watch the video of their initial impressions on the clubs where they have a TaylorMade engineer speaking about the technology. 10 times better, probably 1000 times better, than watching Rick Shiels videos!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Not just any engineer either. Tomo is their senior director of product creation.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°)

FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°)

HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°)

IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9)

WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind)

PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, PMookie said:


Why get caught up and swing speed? That has nothing to do with the consistency of a driver head, set of irons, fairway woods, or hybrids,. Standard deviation, consistency is what matters. A 90 mile an hour swing is going to benefit from a smaller deviation! The improvements from last year’s model to this year’s model is about forgiveness, and consistency, primarily. This is why you should watch TXG videos so you actually learn about what the manufacturer is saying are the benefits, especially when an engineer from the manufacturer itself is in the video explaining everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Also Matt touched on the stability of the sim over the m5. Im sure that plays a role in the standard deviation they were seeing but having a head not moving all over the place on impact is a nice feeling. After watching the txg videos it’s hard to not argue that Tm significantly improved one of their offerings from the previous year. Like you said many will get hung up in swing speed and maybe even ball speed improvements but there’s a lot that can be seen as improved in those videos

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, PMookie said:


Why get caught up and swing speed? That has nothing to do with the consistency of a driver head, set of irons, fairway woods, or hybrids,. Standard deviation, consistency is what matters. A 90 mile an hour swing is going to benefit from a smaller deviation! The improvements from last year’s model to this year’s model is about forgiveness, and consistency, primarily. This is why you should watch TXG videos so you actually learn about what the manufacturer is saying are the benefits, especially when an engineer from the manufacturer itself is in the video explaining everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Why get caught up in clubhead speed? Because that's supposed to be one of the SIMs big value-added benefits. More speed = more distance. Yeah, I know a 90 mph swing won't hit it as far offline with the same error as a 117 mph swinger might.

I don't believe driver tech makes quantum leaps YOY. The SIM may be marginally more "forgiving" than the M5, but I'd rather see the results from Iron Byron - a swing we know is gonna repeat damn near every time. Even TXG's Matty can't match the robot's consistency.

Plus, I don't really care what the manufacturer rep is saying. He's gonna tow the company line, unlike MGS testing.

My :1590477705_SunMountain: C-130 cart bag currently includes;

Driver: :srixon-small: z565 10.5*, Miyazaki Kaula Mizu 6 S-Flex
Fairways:  :callaway-small: X-Hot 15* & 18*, Project X PXv R-Flex
Irons: :benhogan-small:Apex Plus, 4-PW, Apex S4-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CG10; 50*, 54*, 58*, Dynamic Gold W-flex 

Putter: :odyssey-small: White Hot Pro Blade #2
Grips: Golf Pride MCC-Plus 4 & Lamkin UTx
Ball: Kirkland Signature 3-Piece 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

Why get caught up in clubhead speed? Because that's supposed to be one of the SIMs big value-added benefits. More speed = more distance. Yeah, I know a 90 mph swing won't hit it as far offline with the same error as a 117 mph swinger might.

I don't believe driver tech makes quantum leaps YOY. The SIM may be marginally more "forgiving" than the M5, but I'd rather see the results from Iron Byron - a swing we know is gonna repeat damn near every time. Even TXG's Matty can't match the robot's consistency.

Plus, I don't really care what the manufacturer rep is saying. He's gonna tow the company line, unlike MGS testing.

As Ian explained the monitors don’t always rea speed the same for every head and the different shapes of m5 and sim could cause different readings and he’s more interested in the output rather than the input which is why when you look at ball speed increase with better standard deviation, consistent spin and a more stable head Matt gained 10 yards, basically eliminated one side of the course all of which come a YOY comparison sim is significantly better than m5

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...