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JonMUSC08

Taylormade SIM drivers - Thoughts?

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18 minutes ago, JonMUSC08 said:

The guy in the TXG video has a 117mph swing speed!!!! He's faster than most tour pro's! Essentially hes in the top 0.05% of golfers haha.  (my guess on %)

Doing a QUICK Google search:

The average male amateur's swing speed is 93.4 miles per hour, according to research by TrackMan, for an average distance of 214 yards. Using TrackMan's "optimal" distance, the average golfer's potential is 255 yards at that same swing speed

I wanna see the average 90-95mph swing player with like a 10 hdcp (bad eough that there are mishits, good enough that they have the ability to make good contact).

Not to be a downer on technology, but $500 on lessons is going to benefit that type of golfer a whole lot more than $500 on new driver, unless they are playing something that is more than 10 years old.

Matt is a high swing speed player, but most importantly he's relatively repeatable which is great for their head-to-head testing.

To be honest, I like the look of these drivers and hope to have a shot to hit them this season. 

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8 minutes ago, edingc said:

Not to be a downer on technology, but $500 on lessons is going to benefit that type of golfer a whole lot more than $500 on new driver, unless they are playing something that is more than 10 years old.

Matt is a high swing speed player, but most importantly he's relatively repeatable which is great for their head-to-head testing.

To be honest, I like the look of these drivers and hope to have a shot to hit them this season. 

Is it?  I hear that all the time, but it's simply not the case.

Getting lessons is one thing.  Putting the time in to practice, make the swing changes and really commit to implement what you are learning in the lessons is a whole other ballgame.

I would guess at least half of the people that get lessons don't fully commit to the swing changes and never improve.  So that is $500 down the drain. 

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34 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Clearly we have a hard time understanding how engineering for aerodynamics works and posts like this don’t help...

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I gave the SIM a hard time about being a copy of the F9 before being corrected about the M6. Shiels’ comparison isn’t even close! 

Just another reason why I’ve stopped paying attention to rick. I comment every so often on his Twitter but he’s become more click bait and dare I say ignorant of tech and who does what. I almost laughed when watching Pete’s video about his testing for his new bag as he went on about how much in the know and a guru rick is

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8 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Is it?  I hear that all the time, but it's simply not the case.

Getting lessons is one thing.  Putting the time in to practice, make the swing changes and really commit to implement what you are learning in the lessons is a whole other ballgame.

I would guess at least half of the people that get lessons don't fully commit to the swing changes and never improve.  So that is $500 down the drain. 

You are correct. Practice and committing to change was an unstated assumption.

If that's the case, by all means get the driver. 

 

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I see both sides of the equipment vs. lessons argument and IMO it really just depends on the specific scenario as to which is more beneficial. Considering a LOT of golfers have more money than sense, lessons over equipment tends to be applicable in most cases, but you can also look at it this way...

I think the consensus among most in the know is that any driver from a major OEM over the past five years is pretty comparable to the latest and greatest. So, if a golfer were to exercise some self control and keep a club in the bag for longer than six months that’s $100 per year. While there are still instructors offering better prices there are more and more charging upward of $100 per lesson which lasts 45 minutes to an hour. Where you get the most bang for the buck will be relative to your current ability, but from where I’m standing (2013 driver and a better than average swinger of the golf club), I’m going to pick new driver all day long.

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I like the look of it. I currently don’t have a driver as I’ve gotten rid of the epic. If this played like a more forgiving SLDR I’d be in. Not a fan of the made for Ventus. I hit that shaft in a fitting and would def like it in a new FW.

Hopefully they’ll offer the real one at a low up charge but I’m not holding my breathe. 

For the drivers I’ve seen this year this is the one i wanna try the most

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43 minutes ago, edingc said:

Not to be a downer on technology, but $500 on lessons is going to benefit that type of golfer a whole lot more than $500 on new driver, unless they are playing something that is more than 10 years old.

Matt is a high swing speed player, but most importantly he's relatively repeatable which is great for their head-to-head testing.

To be honest, I like the look of these drivers and hope to have a shot to hit them this season. 

 

33 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Is it?  I hear that all the time, but it's simply not the case.

Getting lessons is one thing.  Putting the time in to practice, make the swing changes and really commit to implement what you are learning in the lessons is a whole other ballgame.

I would guess at least half of the people that get lessons don't fully commit to the swing changes and never improve.  So that is $500 down the drain. 

Nailed my thoughts.

17 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I see both sides of the equipment vs. lessons argument and IMO it really just depends on the specific scenario as to which is more beneficial. Considering a LOT of golfers have more money than sense, lessons over equipment tends to be applicable in most cases, but you can also look at it this way...

I think the consensus among most in the know is that any driver from a major OEM over the past five years is pretty comparable to the latest and greatest. So, if a golfer were to exercise some self control and keep a club in the bag for longer than six months that’s $100 per year. While there are still instructors offering better prices there are more and more charging upward of $100 per lesson which lasts 45 minutes to an hour. Where you get the most bang for the buck will be relative to your current ability, but from where I’m standing (2013 driver and a better than average swinger of the golf club), I’m going to pick new driver all day long.

Reading thru this forum and others the abundance of money isn’t there. Numerous guys post about not buying new because they can’t afford it, selecting balls based on price and accepting potential lesser quality. Many even post about not being able to afford lessons. There’s also a lack of time available to the general golfer which we read about across forums. Between work, family and other stuff many golfers have time for a round a week and are rushing to get home after the round to either do chores or spend time with family (nothing wrong with that) so committing limited resources of time and money is a factor for many.

purchasing a piece of gear at $500 that will get used for several years is a better investment for that type of golfer and from a tech and seeing an improvement in performance of said tech that timeframe is about right

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Reading thru this forum and others the abundance of money isn’t there.

Keep in mind that the golfers actively participating in forums are probably in the minority. We’re all here because we share the same passion, want to learn more, and want to figure out how to get the most from what we have. I was speaking more so about the average golfer who doesn’t invest that kind of time to really learn the game. They have some modest ability and keep looking to equipment to help them achieve some sort of miracle break through. Maybe they’ve had a lesson or two, but never took much to heart because as soon as they actually started working on changes they saw a dip in score and figured there was a better way. I think we all see plenty of these types of golfers at the course on a weekly basis.

For that golfer, their money is better spent on lessons and range balls than equipment IMO (provides they stick with it). Otherwise they’d do better to just spend the money on more golf.

Edited by TR1PTIK

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18 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

Keep in mind that the golfers actively participating in forums are probably in the minority. We’re all here because we share the same passion, want to learn more, and want to figure out how to get the most from what we have. I was speaking more so about the average golfer who doesn’t invest that kind of time to really learn the game. They have some modest ability and keep looking to equipment to help them achieve some sort of miracle break through. Maybe they’ve had a lesson or two, but never took much to heart because as soon as they actually started working on changes they saw a dip in score and figured there was a better way. I think we all see plenty of these types of golfers at the course on a weekly basis.

For that golfer, their money is better spent on lessons and range balls than equipment IMO (provides they stick with it). Otherwise they’d do better to just spend the money on more golf.

The average golfer doesn’t have the time or desire to get better it’s why irons, woods and hybrids that offer help getting the ball in the air are made and usually the better selling products. I spend the vast majority of my time around the average non forum golfer at driving ranges and playing all kinds of courses from higher end pricing to military courses. This includes guys that have money and time. They spend their money and free time doing other activities and don’t care to take lessons. Some of the guys I’ve talked to in random pairings have talked about taking a lesson here and there but never really practice and same have even said they know they need to spend time practicing even if they don’t take a lesson, but they prefer to either just play or do their other activities. 
 

The number of newer clubs I see at courses and the range are low and in many cases irons are 5+ years old and drivers 2-3. I know new clubs are being bought as I’m friends with the fitter at the range and have an idea how much he does in business each year. Ive talked for instructors who have students that come in for weekly lessons and don’t practice from lesson to lesson and see little to no improvement.


 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, PMookie said:


Shiels isn’t testing what TM claims are the improvements. See my post above... If Shiels is your one and only source, you’re doing a disservice.
How about you go test for yourself? We’d love to see how it does for each golfer! If you can go somewhere that has more than stock shafts, and can really dial it in, I’d love to hear what you find! It would be awesome!!!
Watch the TXG video. Very in-depth, the opposite of Shiels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Too in-depth, IMO. I don't care to get bogged down in TXG's level of minutiae. The 117 mph swinger @ TXG is even less relevant to me.

Not to be argumentative, but the average swing speed on Tour is what? 112 mph? That aligns with Shiels review. He's not my "only source", but I trust his topline insights. He's usually concise and to the point and I like his style. To each his own.

But, I do look forward to reading the MGS reviews from our contributors and spies once we mere mortals give 'em a swing.

Edited by J.B. TexasEx

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3 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The number of newer clubs I see at courses and the range are low and in many cases irons are 5+ years old and drivers 2-3. I know new clubs are being bought as I’m friends with the fitter at the range and have an idea how much he does in business each year. I've talked for instructors who have students that come in for weekly lessons and don’t practice from lesson to lesson and see little to no improvement.
 

This describes me to a tee, but I've got an 8-year old son so who has time for focused practice?

I also work part-time at a suburban DFW country club. I like to peek into the members' bags to see what they're gaming. Most of the "better" players have relatively new sticks, maybe only 2-3 years old. Quite a few carry the PXGs, so you know they're more affluent and are "buying the dream", so to speak. 

I haven't seen too many still playing with 20-year old Hogans, like me. I have run into a couple guys still playing Ping Eye 2.

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3 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

Matty from TXG picked up like 2MPH club speed and the guys had what I’d at least consider a reasonable explanation for it. You should look at their SIM vs M5 driver test. As with pretty much anything anywhere, results may vary.

On a separate note, I gotta give credit where credit is due. The more I read about and watch these videos on SIM, the more I’m thinking my original take was bass ackwards and I need to try this thing!

I'll give TXG's review a cursory glance. It'll be interesting to see what 2 mph did for Matty.

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7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The number of newer clubs I see at courses and the range are low and in many cases irons are 5+ years old and drivers 2-3. I know new clubs are being bought as I’m friends with the fitter at the range and have an idea how much he does in business each year. Ive talked for instructors who have students that come in for weekly lessons and don’t practice from lesson to lesson and see little to no improvement.

If they’re drivers are 2-3 years old they aren’t likely to see that large a jump in performance. Some improvement yes, but they could hold onto that driver for a couple more years and not be at much of a disadvantage. 
 

The point of my argument was that their money would be better spent on lessons in this scenario with the caveat that they actually do the work because that’s going to save them more strokes than a new driver hands down. The whole excuse of not having time is exactly that, an excuse. It’s a matter of priorities.
 

For those you describe in your example they honestly would be better off to not spend their money on lessons or equipment because any improvement would be marginal.They could either wait another couple years to purchase the new driver or invest in lessons and then follow up on it with practice. That’s the difference.

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36 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

Too in-depth, IMO. I don't care to get bogged down in TXG's level of minutiae. The 117 mph swinger @ TXG is even less relevant to me.

Not to be argumentative, but the average swing speed on Tour is what? 112 mph? That aligns with Shiels review. He's not my "only source", but I trust his topline reviews. He's usually concise and to the point and I like his style. To each his own.

But, I do look forward to reading the MGS reviews from our contributors and spies once us mere mortals give 'em a swing.

If you watch TXG and all you care about is the numbers that Matt is putting up rather than the discussions that occur in between each shot and the insight Ian brings about technology and fitting, than you are watching TXG for the wrong reasons.

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25 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

If they’re drivers are 2-3 years old they aren’t likely to see that large a jump in performance. Some improvement yes, but they could hold onto that driver for a couple more years and not be at much of a disadvantage. 
 

The point of my argument was that their money would be better spent on lessons in this scenario with the caveat that they actually do the work because that’s going to save them more strokes than a new driver hands down. The whole excuse of not having time is exactly that, an excuse. It’s a matter of priorities.
 

For those you describe in your example they honestly would be better off to not spend their money on lessons or equipment because any improvement would be marginal.They could either wait another couple years to purchase the new driver or invest in lessons and then follow up on it with practice. That’s the difference.

You stated that people have more money than sense. I argued that people don’t have much money as you think but that it’s also not just a case of money but time. Golfers regardless of on forums or not lack either of those or both. The subset of golfers with money to spend on continuous lessons and the time to work on what they learn is probably the same small percentage of golfers on forum. 

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9 minutes ago, jlukes said:

If you watch TXG and all you care about is the numbers that Matt is putting up rather than the discussions that occur in between each shot and the insight Ian brings about technology and fitting, than you are watching TXG for the wrong reasons.

True story. 

That's probably why I don't watch TXG very often. Their reviews are too long and I lose interest, so I stopped following them on YouTube. I see their SIMs review is only 15 minutes long, though. 

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

You stated that people have more money than sense. I argued that people don’t have much money as you think but that it’s also not just a case of money but time. Golfers regardless of on forums or not lack either of those or both. The subset of golfers with money to spend on continuous lessons and the time to work on what they learn is probably the same small percentage of golfers on forum. 

If you currently own a driver within the 5 year window and decide to throw $500 at a driver that will only provide marginal benefit then you have more money than sense. That is my argument. 
 

As for practice and lessons, I have personally improved my game via both while starting a family, being a full-time student, and maintaining a full-time job. Even within the past few years I have worked as many as three jobs at one time while supporting my family and finding time to practice. I had a full-time night shift job, a weekend gig at the golf course, and mowed as many as eight yards per week by myself using a push mower. Time is what you make of it.

At this point we’re so far off the original topic it’s laughable.

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6 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

True story. 

That's probably why I don't watch TXG very often. Their reviews are too long and I lose interest, so I stopped following them on YouTube. I see their SIMs review is only 15 minutes long, though. 

Funny. I’ve almost completely stopped watching Shiels and unsubscribed from his channel for the opposite reason. He’s gone from legitimate tester/reviewer sharing meaningful data to clickbait/hot-take social media “influencer”.

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5 hours ago, JonMUSC08 said:

I still think this SIM will be a GREAT driver (haven't hit it yet) BUT I would much much rather spend money on a M5/M6 (which I already own).

All the newfangled drivers look great to me, including the SIMs. I skimmed through the TXG review and Matty got nice benefit from it versus the M5 at 117 mph, average +13 yards and reduced spin -500 rpms, if I read their review correctly. I just don't have the budget to optimize my driver with the latest Ventus shafts. My swing speed is 105 mph on the high end, so let's say 102?

What's that gonna get me MGS engineers? I'm curious. And yes, I know there's other variable to consider; swing path, face deflection, launch angles, etc.

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7 minutes ago, J.B. TexasEx said:

All the newfangled drivers look great to me, including the SIMs. I skimmed through the TXG review and Matty got nice benefit from it versus the M5 at 117 mph, average +13 yards and reduced spin -500 rpms, if I read their review correctly. I just don't have the budget to optimize my driver with the latest Ventus shafts. My swing speed is 105 mph on the high end, so let's say 102?

What's that gonna get me MGS engineers? I'm curious. And yes, I know there's other variable to consider; swing path, face deflection, launch angles, etc.

That is pretty much what TrueGolfFit will tell you.  Put in your swing parameters and it will give you the best driver.  The database will be updated in a few months to include all of the new stuff.

And this information is free if all you have is Swing Speed

https://mygolfspy.com/2019-most-wanted-the-best-drivers-for-mid-swing-speeds/

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