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JudgeSmails

Most Wanted Drivers 2017 vs 2019

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I have a question about driver testing. So I have been playing the 2017 GBB Epic, and recently kind of lucked into and Epic Flash head. I was curious what (if any) the performance difference would be. So I went to your 2017 Most Wanted and your 2019 Most Wanted to compare the numbers. Odd finding, not just the Epic line, but on pretty much all drivers across the board, the 2017 numbers for ball speed and distance are higher. Ball Speeds are about 5mph higher and Carry distance is about 10 yards more. This is across the board on all drivers. Any change in testing between those 2 years to explain that?

I submitted this question to MGS on facebook and they haven't responded, maybe someone here (or an MGS Staffer) has some ideas?  Thanks

82030797_10216449537177318_5857714030235353088_n.jpg

Edited by JudgeSmails
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Driver:    :callaway-small: GBB Epic 10.5* 

Utility Iron: :cleveland-small: UHX 18*

Hybrid:   :callaway-small: Epic 4h 23* 

Irons:    :mizuno-small: JPX900 Hot Metal 5-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX2 52* 56* 60*

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER 2.2

Ball:   :bridgestone-small: Tour BXS

 

 

 

 

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At present, there is no way to compare Most Wanted Testing across years, because the tester pools are different each year. Those overall differences that you're seeing between 2017 and 2019 are not differences in clubs, but differences in the guys swinging them.

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:callaway-small: Rogue Sub Zero, 10.5°, Project X EvenFlow Blue 65
:taylormade-small: M4 3HL 16.5°, Atmos Red 60
:cobra-small: F6 5-6W, 19.5°, Fujikura Motore 6.3
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX 20°, Project X HZRDUS 85 5.5
:ping-small: G700 5–PW, blue dot, Modus3 105
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:cleveland-small: RTX-3 CB 54° and 60°
:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab R Ball, 34"
:srixon-small: Z-Star XV

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2 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

At present, there is no way to compare Most Wanted Testing across years, because the tester pools are different each year. Those overall differences that you're seeing between 2017 and 2019 are not differences in clubs, but differences in the guys swinging them.

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

 

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Driver:    :callaway-small: GBB Epic 10.5* 

Utility Iron: :cleveland-small: UHX 18*

Hybrid:   :callaway-small: Epic 4h 23* 

Irons:    :mizuno-small: JPX900 Hot Metal 5-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX2 52* 56* 60*

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER 2.2

Ball:   :bridgestone-small: Tour BXS

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, JudgeSmails said:

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

Over the years, I've seen a lot of requests for cross-year testing, even just included the previous year's winner in the next year's testing. I think time is the main obstacle; each club added to the test adds a lot more shots.

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:callaway-small: Rogue Sub Zero, 10.5°, Project X EvenFlow Blue 65
:taylormade-small: M4 3HL 16.5°, Atmos Red 60
:cobra-small: F6 5-6W, 19.5°, Fujikura Motore 6.3
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX 20°, Project X HZRDUS 85 5.5
:ping-small: G700 5–PW, blue dot, Modus3 105
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:cleveland-small: RTX-3 CB 54° and 60°
:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab R Ball, 34"
:srixon-small: Z-Star XV

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1 hour ago, JudgeSmails said:

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

 

I would watch reviews for the 2017 clubs and comparable 2019 clubs on YouTube done by the same reviewer.  I can't imagine most of them have changed their swings that much in two years. That would be closer to what you're looking for.

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2 hours ago, JudgeSmails said:

Thank you!  I kind of figured that was it, but wanted to check.  OBV comparing the 2 most wanted tests won't do me much good then, so it's off for my own comparisons 🙂

 

 

... I have always said these kinds of tests are just a starting point. I swing around 100 mph with a smooth and deliberate transition and have a positive AOA. So someone testing the same driver that has a 100 mph swing with an aggressive transition, short hard hitter with a negative AOA will have zero similar results with any driver/shaft combo. And driver shaft combo is also huge for anyone looking at any tests. The Atmos Tour Spec Blue is a great fit for my swing and for fun I tried the Atmos Tour Spec Black and lost distance and trajectory as well as feel because it felt like I was not unloading the shaft producing the illusion that I needed to swing harder. Otoh after playing the Even Flow Blue I tried the Even Flow Black and it worked well for me. No amount of testing by others will give me results that my independent testing will produce. 

... So while given some results with a combined number of golfers does provide a starting point, what anyone may find for their individual swing can be very different than the tests, so as you point out "it is off for my own comparisons" and exactly what most of us will need to do. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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19 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I have always said these kinds of tests are just a starting point. I swing around 100 mph with a smooth and deliberate transition and have a positive AOA. So someone testing the same driver that has a 100 mph swing with an aggressive transition, short hard hitter with a negative AOA will have zero similar results with any driver/shaft combo. And driver shaft combo is also huge for anyone looking at any tests. The Atmos Tour Spec Blue is a great fit for my swing and for fun I tried the Atmos Tour Spec Black and lost distance and trajectory as well as feel because it felt like I was not unloading the shaft producing the illusion that I needed to swing harder. Otoh after playing the Even Flow Blue I tried the Even Flow Black and it worked well for me. No amount of testing by others will give me results that my independent testing will produce. 

... So while given some results with a combined number of golfers does provide a starting point, what anyone may find for their individual swing can be very different than the tests, so as you point out "it is off for my own comparisons" and exactly what most of us will need to do. 

Yeah, totally agree...it was just going to be a starting point 


Driver:    :callaway-small: GBB Epic 10.5* 

Utility Iron: :cleveland-small: UHX 18*

Hybrid:   :callaway-small: Epic 4h 23* 

Irons:    :mizuno-small: JPX900 Hot Metal 5-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX2 52* 56* 60*

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER 2.2

Ball:   :bridgestone-small: Tour BXS

 

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, TwoCoatsOfWax said:

I would watch reviews for the 2017 clubs and comparable 2019 clubs on YouTube done by the same reviewer.  I can't imagine most of them have changed their swings that much in two years. That would be closer to what you're looking for.

I did do some of that...there are a few comparisons out there

Also, are you just finishing up the second coat now?


Driver:    :callaway-small: GBB Epic 10.5* 

Utility Iron: :cleveland-small: UHX 18*

Hybrid:   :callaway-small: Epic 4h 23* 

Irons:    :mizuno-small: JPX900 Hot Metal 5-GW

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX2 52* 56* 60*

Putter:  :EVNROLL: ER 2.2

Ball:   :bridgestone-small: Tour BXS

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Over the years, I've seen a lot of requests for cross-year testing, even just included the previous year's winner in the next year's testing. I think time is the main obstacle; each club added to the test adds a lot more shots.

These test already require a ton of time. adding more clubs from previous years really does not sweeten the pie in my mind. 


Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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If it's a time issue, curious as to why MGS doesn't put out a call for forum members in the surrounding area to come down and lend a hand. I'm sure many would jump at the chance to check out the facility, meet the staff, and have a hand in creating a Most Wanted product - I know I would!


In my :ping-small: Hoofer:

:titelist-small: 975D 10.5*

:ping-small:  Eye 2 Persimmon Woods (3/5)

:wilson_staff_small:  D7 4-GW, KBS 105

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 Stealth 54.12 SS & 58.10 SS

:ping-small:  Zing 2 LW - 60*

:ping-small:  Anser 2

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If it's a time issue, curious as to why MGS doesn't put out a call for forum members in the surrounding area to come down and lend a hand. I'm sure many would jump at the chance to check out the facility, meet the staff, and have a hand in creating a Most Wanted product - I know I would!

They have an open door policy and on one of the past no putts given Harry said to shoot him an email and you could be a tester. I have even seen signs at local courses and golf shops.

 

I am pretty sure they do have a limit on the number of testers for each product. This is due to space limitations at the facility (2 gc quads, and 1 putting green) and who they can fit in during the day. This years driver test is roughly a 40 hour commitment for each tester. 4 drivers each session with a total of 9 sessions. Each session is an hour plus which includes some warm up time, following the prescribed protocol; and providing subjective feedback. I get in 1 to 2 sessions a week.

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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54 minutes ago, cnosil said:

They have an open door policy and on one of the past no putts given Harry said to shoot him an email and you could be a tester. I have even seen signs at local courses and golf shops.

 

I am pretty sure they do have a limit on the number of testers for each product. This is due to space limitations at the facility (2 gc quads, and 1 putting green) and who they can fit in during the day. This years driver test is roughly a 40 hour commitment for each tester. 4 drivers each session with a total of 9 sessions. Each session is an hour plus which includes some warm up time, following the prescribed protocol; and providing subjective feedback. I get in 1 to 2 sessions a week.

Thanks so much to you and all of our testers.  I remember seeing this result a few years back - where the prior year's ball speed and yardages were greater so I asked and it was exactly because of the difference in the testing pool. 

I also remember a year or two where we had some information about each of the testers - these very nice when looking for a starting point.  Since I haven't really been in the driver market the past few years perhaps its been there and I've missed it.

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Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Alpha Distanza 40 weak R flex shaft

Tour Exotics EX 10 3 wood

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,58

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

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This is an intriguing idea, but the logistics would be....   interesting.  🙂

The Rick Shiels "5 years of XXXX drivers" videos are the closest to this, such as I've seen.   <shrug>


Cobra King LTD @ 10.5*, ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
2h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
3-PW:  Mizuno MP37, DGS300
GW: Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
SW:  Ram TG-898 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Cleveland Designed By, or Mizuno TPM-2, all at 34", or Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Pro or FG Tour, or Kirkland Signature 3 pc

Sometimes play 2-PW Golden Ram TW282 or 2-PW 1980 Golden Rams

Occasionally swap in Orlimar or Ram persimmons at the top end of bag

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@JudgeSmails the club speed is missing from the 2019 testing. The club and ball speed will be similarly correlated. If 2019 testing was abt 99-100mph then there's an interesting difference in performance.

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Charleston, SC

HDCP 13.0

  • Driver: :taylormade-small:  M6 9* with 65g Stiff Mitsubishi Tensei Red shaft
  • 3 wood: :taylormade-small:  M4 with 60g Atmos red stiff shaft
  • 4-pw irons: :ping-small:  G710 with stiff KBS shafts (MGS Tester '20)
  • Wedges: 52, 56, 60 :titelist-small: SM5 & SM6
  • Putter: 34" :odyssey-small: 2-ball original with superstroke grip
  • :918457628_PrecisionPro:Precision Pro NX9 HD Pro laser rangefinder (MGS Tester '19)
  • Tracked By: :Arccos:

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[mention=55830]JudgeSmails[/mention] the club speed is missing from the 2019 testing. The club and ball speed will be similarly correlated. If 2019 testing was abt 99-100mph then there's an interesting difference in performance.

 

Still impossible to correlate. Don’t know how many players are in the stats for the various swing speeds and we don’t know where the player was hitting it on the face. My 100mph toe hits will potentially have less ball speed than a players 95mph sweet spot hit. To do any real comparison, you would have to have the entire set of data

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but TXG just started doing some comparison videos with drivers a few models old.  I'm not sure if the got an OG Epic to compare to or not though.


#MGSCOBRA2020 #COBRACONNECT CHALLENGE 4 is live!  Follow Along here!

:cobra-small: Speedzone Driver 10.5 - Tensei Pro White 6TX

:cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S

:cobra-small: Speedzone 4-Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:cobra-small: KING Forged Tec 5-GW - PX LZ 6.5

:cobra-small: KING MIM Black 52.12 Classic, 56.10 Versatile, 60.04 Widelow - KBS 610 Wedge

 :EVNROLL: ER2B

:titelist-small: Pro V1x

:918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 HD Slope

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14 minutes ago, B.Boston said:

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but TXG just started doing some comparison videos with drivers a few models old.  I'm not sure if the got an OG Epic to compare to or not though.

The ones I’ve seen lately have been model year replacement like rogue vs mavrik, m5/6 vs sim/max. Not sure their setup/policy with the various manufactures but I would guess something that’s more than 1 release cycle back they don’t stock and more than likely have sent back to the oem


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I’d still like to see last years winner in the mix... testers will be different, etc, and all that is true. But it will still be hit by the same testers this time around, and one more club wouldn’t make that big a difference. And if it does, then I would drop a club that is known to not be in the top 3 or 4. It’ll still be apples to apples for this years testing.

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Currently testing for review:

:Hogan: Combo iron set -8,9,per Icon 5,6,7 PtxPro 4-UiHi

:ping-small: G400 LSTec driver 10° on Aldila X-Torsion Stiff

:callaway-small: 816 Alpha 3-wood 15° On Aldila Rogue Stiff

:callaway-small: 815 GBB Alpha hybrid 19° On Fujikura Speeder 865 Stiff

:benhogan-small: Ptx Pro 5-P irons on KBS Tour V 110 S

:benhogan-small: Equalizer 50°, 54°, 60° wedges on recoil 780 StifF

 :EVNROLL: ER3 34”

:titelist-small: ProV1x

:callaway-small: .Org 14 cart bag

Adidas Tour 360 shoes

 

 

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This was one of TXGs recent Instagram posts. I’m excited for these videos. Can’t wait to see the M2 video.

IMG_4627.JPG


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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Driver-  :taylormade-small:  2016 M2 12* Tensei Red Stiff

Wood(s)- :ping-small:  G400 5 Wood 17.5*/ 7 Wood 20.5* Alta CB Stiff

Irons-:mizuno-small:   JPX 900 Forged 7-GW NS Pro 950GH JPX MMC Fli-Hi 5-6 NS Pro 950GH

Wedges- :cleveland-small:   588 RTX 2.0  58*   RTX 4 64*

Putter-  :taylormade-small:  Spider Tour Black 

Instagram- @patrickleeleep

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This was one of TXGs recent Instagram posts. I’m excited for these videos. Can’t wait to see the M2 video.

IMG_4627.thumb.JPG.0d66c7b8fa2aa3416707ef35f2a8d7e8.JPG


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy


That should be a really good compare!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#MGSCOBRA2020 #COBRACONNECT CHALLENGE 4 is live!  Follow Along here!

:cobra-small: Speedzone Driver 10.5 - Tensei Pro White 6TX

:cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S

:cobra-small: Speedzone 4-Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:cobra-small: KING Forged Tec 5-GW - PX LZ 6.5

:cobra-small: KING MIM Black 52.12 Classic, 56.10 Versatile, 60.04 Widelow - KBS 610 Wedge

 :EVNROLL: ER2B

:titelist-small: Pro V1x

:918457628_PrecisionPro: NX9 HD Slope

:Arccos:

#cuetheduckboats

 

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