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New Handicap System - Playing Conditions Calculation


AlanMP

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This is my first posted score that involves the new playing conditions calculation. I guess this means the nine holes were playing a half stroke harder due to the weather conditions? I played in the morning. Conditions were soft cause it had poured the night before so I guess maybe I wasn't getting the normal roll out on the fairways. The weather was much worse in the afternoon that day so maybe that weather is being taken into account? Either way, the new handicap system is interesting. Anyone else had their scores adjusted due to weather? Capture.PNG.e6169a493e13bb6464dfac5dd4a26abd.PNG

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On 1/14/2020 at 9:40 AM, AlanMP said:

This is my first posted score that involves the new playing conditions calculation. I guess this means the nine holes were playing a half stroke harder due to the weather conditions? I played in the morning. Conditions were soft cause it had poured the night before so I guess maybe I wasn't getting the normal roll out on the fairways. The weather was much worse in the afternoon that day so maybe that weather is being taken into account? Either way, the new handicap system is interesting. Anyone else had their scores adjusted due to weather? Capture.PNG.e6169a493e13bb6464dfac5dd4a26abd.PNG

The PCC is based only on the scores posted that day, it's not really based on someone's assessment of the weather.  I'm your case, the PM rains may have raised the scoring enough to trigger the adjustment.

Edit.  I'll leave my initial (kinda dumb) response in place, but clarify this based on @THEZIPR23 pointing m to what is actually there.  A negative PCC, like the -0.5 shown in the OP, means that scoring was lower than expected, so conditions were apparently easier than normal.

Edited by DaveP043

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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  • 1 month later...

I went to a seminar tonight at my club. I hadnt heard of the score adhustment until tonight. I guess weather. pin placement, maybe even too many beverages on the back can affect the score. Thats why its important to post before midnight on the day of your round. If you post after, you wont get the adjustment if one is made. Its only based on posted scores, not that it rained and there was no roll. 

DRIVER: Cobra F9 10.5  Tensei AV Blue 65g

3W- Callway XR PRO 16 stiff

5W- Alpha- Mitsubishi Diamana  Redboard w/band

Irons- Mizuno JPX 919 Tours with S KBS Tour shafts

Hyrbid- TM 4h mid-rescue

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7 hours ago, pulledabill said:

I went to a seminar tonight at my club. I hadnt heard of the score adhustment until tonight. I guess weather. pin placement, maybe even too many beverages on the back can affect the score. Thats why its important to post before midnight on the day of your round. If you post after, you wont get the adjustment if one is made. Its only based on posted scores, not that it rained and there was no roll. 

The bold bit isn't exactly correct.  The calculation will be made based only on scores that are posted on the day of play.  However, the PCC will be applied to every score posted for play on that day, no matter when the score is actually posted.

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

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Reston, Virginia

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I've posted well over 20 scores this year from my home club for this year, with the new handicap system, and I have yet to see any adjustment for PCC.  What I am about to say is not scientific, or based on anything more then random observation and conversations with other members at my club, but I get the impression that a lot of guys at my club either don't post scores the same day, or not at all.  As an example, after our dogfight on Saturday, the pro asks and collects everyone's scorecards, and I think he is posting these into the system, but I have no way of really knowing if this is happening.  In my case, because I maintain my handicap with the FSGA, and not through my home club, I always post my scores the day of on the GHIN website when I get home, and I always included the advanced stats in my round, as I am just a numbers geek.

Last Saturday was an interesting conversation I overheard, as we had a one day member guest, and one of the guys in my group that I play with all the time was approached by the head pro and was gently encouraged to take a closer look at his current handicap as he hadn't posted any scores this year at all, and I know for a fact that I have played at least a handful of rounds with him.  He's an older guy who could care less about computers, or the internet or anything.  His problem wasn't sandbagging actually, but the fact that he had back issues, and his game has gone to hell since 2 years ago when it happened, and now he's scoring in the low 80's, but none of those scores are posted to his GHIN.  So the pro had him down as scratch for the member guest, and while I don't think he was even complaining, he just sort of mentioned that his handicap really wasn't reflective of his current game, to which his playing partner said to him bluntly, "well, that's your own damn fault then." meaning that he doesn't post scores, so that's on him for not doing so.

I guess I see that in a few scratch golfers at my club, where they don't seem to post the higher scores that might actually raise their handicap a bit.  I honestly don't think it's a glory handicap thing, but more of laziness or just don't care if they post scores or not.  Either way, I guess they can't complain when they enter a tournament and handicap is used and they ended up in last place in their flight.

I say all of this to explain why I don't believe any round at my club will ever come with a PCC adjustment.  Not much I can do about a group of guys who either don't post all their scores, or wait a day, week or whatever to post scores.  I guess I am just wierd in that I like to post my scores as soon as I can after the round is over.  The daily handicap adjustment is kinda fun to me.   

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36 minutes ago, Mr. 82 said:

I've posted well over 20 scores this year from my home club for this year, with the new handicap system, and I have yet to see any adjustment for PCC.  What I am about to say is not scientific, or based on anything more then random observation and conversations with other members at my club, but I get the impression that a lot of guys at my club either don't post scores the same day, or not at all.  As an example, after our dogfight on Saturday, the pro asks and collects everyone's scorecards, and I think he is posting these into the system, but I have no way of really knowing if this is happening.  In my case, because I maintain my handicap with the FSGA, and not through my home club, I always post my scores the day of on the GHIN website when I get home, and I always included the advanced stats in my round, as I am just a numbers geek.

Last Saturday was an interesting conversation I overheard, as we had a one day member guest, and one of the guys in my group that I play with all the time was approached by the head pro and was gently encouraged to take a closer look at his current handicap as he hadn't posted any scores this year at all, and I know for a fact that I have played at least a handful of rounds with him.  He's an older guy who could care less about computers, or the internet or anything.  His problem wasn't sandbagging actually, but the fact that he had back issues, and his game has gone to hell since 2 years ago when it happened, and now he's scoring in the low 80's, but none of those scores are posted to his GHIN.  So the pro had him down as scratch for the member guest, and while I don't think he was even complaining, he just sort of mentioned that his handicap really wasn't reflective of his current game, to which his playing partner said to him bluntly, "well, that's your own damn fault then." meaning that he doesn't post scores, so that's on him for not doing so.

I guess I see that in a few scratch golfers at my club, where they don't seem to post the higher scores that might actually raise their handicap a bit.  I honestly don't think it's a glory handicap thing, but more of laziness or just don't care if they post scores or not.  Either way, I guess they can't complain when they enter a tournament and handicap is used and they ended up in last place in their flight.

I say all of this to explain why I don't believe any round at my club will ever come with a PCC adjustment.  Not much I can do about a group of guys who either don't post all their scores, or wait a day, week or whatever to post scores.  I guess I am just wierd in that I like to post my scores as soon as I can after the round is over.  The daily handicap adjustment is kinda fun to me.   

For the first bold bit, you certainly CAN look up Handicap Scores through GHIN, as long as you know first and last names.  Check a couple of players on the day following play, you'll find out whose scores have been posted.  Or you can simply ask the pro, instead of assuming.

If you're happy with a system that doesn't work as it should, fine.  If you'd like to see it run properly, you CAN do something about it.  Get involved.  Volunteer for the Handicap Committee.  This whole system simply cannot function properly without a little bit of effort by the people who use it.  No effort means a broken system.  This is pretty close to the old saying, "You get what you pay for".  

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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11 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

For the first bold bit, you certainly CAN look up Handicap Scores through GHIN, as long as you know first and last names.  Check a couple of players on the day following play, you'll find out whose scores have been posted.  Or you can simply ask the pro, instead of assuming.

If you're happy with a system that doesn't work as it should, fine.  If you'd like to see it run properly, you CAN do something about it.  Get involved.  Volunteer for the Handicap Committee.  This whole system simply cannot function properly without a little bit of effort by the people who use it.  No effort means a broken system.  This is pretty close to the old saying, "You get what you pay for".  

Well, in response to your first part, I have looked up guys in the handicap system, and that's why I know they aren't posting.

As to your second part, I'll simply use the same answer I use with regards to sandbagging at my club, or anywhere else, "I'd rather have 12 friends than $100."  Whether or not people post scores to their handicap is not important enough for me to even bother saying anything to anyone about.  And it's certainly not important enough to piss someone off about.  I mean, even hypothetically running this conversation in my head leaves me with a result that everytime I play it out is nothing but a negative for me as a response.

"Hey Robert, how come you didn't post your dogfight scores in GHIN from last Saturday?"

"Hey Phillip, what are you doing now, stalking me?  Why don't you go FLOCK yourself."

Yeah, that's pretty much how that conversation goes in every conceivable scenario I can think of.  It's like trying to tell someone they shouldn't smoke, or shouldn't drink, or shouldn't do drugs, or shouldn't _________________________.  And I sure as heck don't want to be THAT GUY at the club that becomes known as the "handicap enforcer."  I'm 5'9" and 145 lbs.  I'm the last guy who would even consider even entertaining handicap anything at my club.

My GHIN is 100% dead on accurate and up to date.  That's my responsibility and it's good.  What someone else does with their GHIN is not up to me, and since we play in a points game that is used 99% of the time that is also 100% accurate and up to date (it's posted immediately after every round, and everyone's points are automatically adjusted online) I'm not worried one bit about someone's GHIN index.

One final thought on this matter.  Most rounds we play as a group there are side bets going on, and team bets, etc.  Generally speaking we try and pair guys up where we don't do strokes, and play straight up.  We'll pair a scratch golfer with an 8 handicap, and the other team will have a 2 handicap and a 4 handicap and both teams will play best ball and 9 times out of 10 the results play themselves out to where the guy making birdies wins the bet.  In these types of bets, par is meaningless because typically one guy in either team will par the hole to halve it.  Out of 18 holes you might win 1 hole with a par, but generally, you need a birdie and sometimes an eagle to win a hole.  So amongst the members in our club, handicaps just aren't used on these types of bets.  You bring your A game, or you lose $12 - $20.  It's really that simple.

Edited by Mr. 82
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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

The bold bit isn't exactly correct.  The calculation will be made based only on scores that are posted on the day of play.  However, the PCC will be applied to every score posted for play on that day, no matter when the score is actually posted.

Correct...thank you

DRIVER: Cobra F9 10.5  Tensei AV Blue 65g

3W- Callway XR PRO 16 stiff

5W- Alpha- Mitsubishi Diamana  Redboard w/band

Irons- Mizuno JPX 919 Tours with S KBS Tour shafts

Hyrbid- TM 4h mid-rescue

Vokey- Vokey SM5 51 degrees,  SM7 Wedges 54 and 58 1/2 half 3 degrees upright

Putter- Taylor Made Rossa Monza Mini Spider

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26 minutes ago, Mr. 82 said:

Well, in response to your first part, I have looked up guys in the handicap system, and that's why I know they aren't posting.

As to your second part, I'll simply use the same answer I use with regards to sandbagging at my club, or anywhere else, "I'd rather have 12 friends than $100."  Whether or not people post scores to their handicap is not important enough for me to even bother saying anything to anyone about.  And it's certainly not important enough to piss someone off about.  I mean, even hypothetically running this conversation in my head leaves me with a result that everytime I play it out is nothing but a negative for me as a response.

"Hey Robert, how come you didn't post your dogfight scores in GHIN from last Saturday?"

"Hey Phillip, what are you doing now, stalking me?  Why don't you go FLOCK yourself."

Yeah, that's pretty much how that conversation goes in every conceivable scenario I can think of.  It's like trying to tell someone they shouldn't smoke, or shouldn't drink, or shouldn't do drugs, or shouldn't _________________________.  And I sure as heck don't want to be THAT GUY at the club that becomes known as the "handicap enforcer."  I'm 5'9" and 145 lbs.  I'm the last guy who would even consider even entertaining handicap anything at my club.

My GHIN is 100% dead on accurate and up to date.  That's my responsibility and it's good.  What someone else does with their GHIN is not up to me, and since we play in a points game that is used 99% of the time that is also 100% accurate and up to date (it's posted immediately after every round, and everyone's points are automatically adjusted online) I'm not worried one bit about someone's GHIN index.

One final thought on this matter.  Most rounds we play as a group there are side bets going on, and team bets, etc.  Generally speaking we try and pair guys up where we don't do strokes, and play straight up.  We'll pair a scratch golfer with an 8 handicap, and the other team will have a 2 handicap and a 4 handicap and both teams will play best ball and 9 times out of 10 the results play themselves out to where the guy making birdies wins the bet.  In these types of bets, par is meaningless because typically one guy in either team will par the hole to halve it.  Out of 18 holes you might win 1 hole with a par, but generally, you need a birdie and sometimes an eagle to win a hole.  So amongst the members in our club, handicaps just aren't used on these types of bets.  You bring your A game, or you lose $12 - $20.  It's really that simple.

Interesting take.  Last night at my club's little class on this system, they were looking to add a few more people to what I believe they called some sort of handicap watch dog group.  They had an official name, but what it was is blanking on me.  They would basically audit club members amount of postings in comparison to the amount of tee times at the club.  So if they noticed "Joe" was only posting 1 round a week, but they noticed on the tee sheet that "Joe" was playing 6 days a week, they would ask "Joe" why he is only posting but once a week.  I don't believe anybody's hand went up when they looked to add a couple more members to the group.  Not a job  I would want. One scenario was that "Joe" would be on the deck having a drink with the guys celebrating his 74, when his normal score is well above that.  The watch dog group never sees that scored posted so they question him about why he didn't post it. 

Our course did go through a recent slope/rating update and some of the members weren't happy about the hole handicapping.  The gal driving this bus was really wanting people to post scores hole by hole so they hole handicapping might get updated via scores by holes. 

DRIVER: Cobra F9 10.5  Tensei AV Blue 65g

3W- Callway XR PRO 16 stiff

5W- Alpha- Mitsubishi Diamana  Redboard w/band

Irons- Mizuno JPX 919 Tours with S KBS Tour shafts

Hyrbid- TM 4h mid-rescue

Vokey- Vokey SM5 51 degrees,  SM7 Wedges 54 and 58 1/2 half 3 degrees upright

Putter- Taylor Made Rossa Monza Mini Spider

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1 hour ago, Mr. 82 said:

As to your second part, I'll simply use the same answer I use with regards to sandbagging at my club, or anywhere else, "I'd rather have 12 friends than $100."  Whether or not people post scores to their handicap is not important enough for me to even bother saying anything to anyone about.  And it's certainly not important enough to piss someone off about.  I mean, even hypothetically running this conversation in my head leaves me with a result that everytime I play it out is nothing but a negative for me as a response.

"Hey Robert, how come you didn't post your dogfight scores in GHIN from last Saturday?"

"Hey Phillip, what are you doing now, stalking me?  Why don't you go FLOCK yourself."

Yeah, that's pretty much how that conversation goes in every conceivable scenario I can think of.  It's like trying to tell someone they shouldn't smoke, or shouldn't drink, or shouldn't do drugs, or shouldn't _________________________.  And I sure as heck don't want to be THAT GUY at the club that becomes known as the "handicap enforcer."  I'm 5'9" and 145 lbs.  I'm the last guy who would even consider even entertaining handicap anything at my club.

That "watch dog group" that @pulledabill mentions would properly be termed the Handicap Committee.  Its interesting, I started my role as "that guy", the Handicap Committee chair about 5 years ago.  Before then, we really didn't have a committee, even though its required by the rules.  I definitely got some push-back from a few players, but a whole lot more people thanked me for making the effort.  Its definitely a PITA, but prize money (shop credit) for the tournament season could get into the hundreds of dollars.  Most people see the value into making things as fair as the system can allow.  

We've never had to discipline anyone, but I've sent a fair number of emails telling players that we've noticed they're not posting scores when they should, and asking them to do better in the future.  As I said, I got some push-back, mostly from near-scratch guys who didn't like following any handicapping rules, but they came around.  Those initial emails have almost always been enough.  We've never had a conversation in public about this, we have no interest in embarrassing anyone in front of friends, although if its someone I know well I might have a little private chat.  We've also found that many many people don't understand what they're supposed to do, so part of the task is education.

Like I said, the handicap system depends on the "community" to make it work right.  If nobody cares enough to make the effort, you get what you've earned.

58 minutes ago, pulledabill said:

Our course did go through a recent slope/rating update and some of the members weren't happy about the hole handicapping.  The gal driving this bus was really wanting people to post scores hole by hole so they hole handicapping might get updated via scores by holes. 

The new Handicap Rules suggest that Hole Stoke Indexes be ordered differently than they have in the past.  Previously, the suggestion was to look for the holes where the difference between higher-handicappers and lower-handicappers was the greatest.  That was intended to be done by comparing hole-by-hole scores posted by two groups of golfers, high and low.  The new recommendations is based largely on the "difficulty" as measured by the Course Rating numbers, with adjustments made to distribute  stroke holes kind of evenly throughout the round.  We just redid ours a few years ago, so I don't see making changes right away, but the next time we do it we'll probably follow the recommendations.

 

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

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Reston, Virginia

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This system seems kind of broken because not all handicap systems are linked up. So if only one person is using your handicapping system at that course for the day.....but 50 others post with another system, the person using a different system with no one else posting, may not get a benefit, or possibly a non benefit, that the handicapping system with 50 golfers posting will get.

That's not right.... especially if they are all official handicap indexes.

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Irons: :ping-small: Crossover 3 iron (19*) with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shaft

            :titelist-small: AP3 (4/5) and AP2 (6-PW) with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shafts

Wedges: Scor 50*, 54*, and 58* with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shafts

Putter:  :cameron-small: Pro Platinum Newport 2 Midslant

Handicap: 3

Location: Illinois...until i can get my wife to move to a warmer climate

Right Handed: Although sometimes I wonder if left handed would suit me better :blink:

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24 minutes ago, dhartmann34 said:

This system seems kind of broken because not all handicap systems are linked up. So if only one person is using your handicapping system at that course for the day.....but 50 others post with another system, the person using a different system with no one else posting, may not get a benefit, or possibly a non benefit, that the handicapping system with 50 golfers posting will get.

That's not right.... especially if they are all official handicap indexes.
 

Which systems are you talking about?  USGA approved handicaps all go into a common database.  This is almost certainly the reason that the Grint will now be issuing and using GHIN account numbers.  

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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Which systems are you talking about?  USGA approved handicaps all go into a common database.  This is almost certainly the reason that the Grint will now be issuing and using GHIN account numbers.  
Well some of the ones folks use by me are CDGA, US Handicap, MyScorecard.


So since all of these are USGA approved, they'll aggregate all the scores of one course for all the handicap systems?

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Fairway:   :ping-small: G400 (14.5*) with Diamana Kai'li X-stiff

Irons: :ping-small: Crossover 3 iron (19*) with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shaft

            :titelist-small: AP3 (4/5) and AP2 (6-PW) with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shafts

Wedges: Scor 50*, 54*, and 58* with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shafts

Putter:  :cameron-small: Pro Platinum Newport 2 Midslant

Handicap: 3

Location: Illinois...until i can get my wife to move to a warmer climate

Right Handed: Although sometimes I wonder if left handed would suit me better :blink:

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31 minutes ago, dhartmann34 said:

Well some of the ones folks use by me are CDGA, US Handicap, MyScorecard.

So since all of these are USGA approved, they'll aggregate all the scores of one course for all the handicap systems?

That would be something to ask each of the various handicap services.  I would specifically ask whichever one you use how they will handle the PCC calculations.  Supposedly, we'll eventually have a world-wide database that all scores are stored in.  If I play in Argentina, and post my score promptly to my USGA handicap through my Virginia club, my score should be one of those evaluated in determining the PCC for that course in Argentina on that day.  I don't understand the methods of communicating scores to the appropriate calculational service, but I'm certain the mechanics have been thought through.

FYI, I just checked MyScorecard, and their webpage does not appear to have been revised to reflect the new handicap system.  USHandicap does appear to reflect the new system.  The CDGA is your USGA-allied local area association, so scores you post should all be available to the central database.  For players in your regions, entering scores into the CDGA is just like me entering scores into GHIN.   Its important to remember that the USGA doesn't require all of its allied associations to use GHIN, so the CDGA can be perfectly compliant and still operate its own "system."  

Edited by DaveP043

:titleist-small: Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff

:callaway-small:Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:mizuno-small: T22 54 and 58 wedges

:mizuno-small: 7-wood

:Sub70: 5-wood

 B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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That would be something to ask each of the various handicap services.  I would specifically ask whichever one you use how they will handle the PCC calculations.  Supposedly, we'll eventually have a world-wide database that all scores are stored in.  If I play in Argentina, and post my score promptly to my USGA handicap through my Virginia club, my score should be one of those evaluated in determining the PCC for that course in Argentina on that day.  I don't understand the methods of communicating scores to the appropriate calculational service, but I'm certain the mechanics have been thought through.
FYI, I just checked MyScorecard, and their webpage does not appear to have been revised to reflect the new handicap system.  USHandicap does appear to reflect the new system.  The CDGA is your USGA-allied local area association, so scores you post should all be available to the central database.  For players in your regions, entering scores into the CDGA is just like me entering scores into GHIN.   Its important to remember that the USGA doesn't require all of its allied associations to use GHIN, so the CDGA can be perfectly compliant and still operate its own "system."  
Here's what the CDGA says about the PCC...

Screenshot_20200305-125650_Drive.jpg

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 (8*) with Diamana Kai'li X-stiff

Fairway:   :ping-small: G400 (14.5*) with Diamana Kai'li X-stiff

Irons: :ping-small: Crossover 3 iron (19*) with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shaft

            :titelist-small: AP3 (4/5) and AP2 (6-PW) with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shafts

Wedges: Scor 50*, 54*, and 58* with TT Dynamic Gold 120 S400 shafts

Putter:  :cameron-small: Pro Platinum Newport 2 Midslant

Handicap: 3

Location: Illinois...until i can get my wife to move to a warmer climate

Right Handed: Although sometimes I wonder if left handed would suit me better :blink:

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On 1/14/2020 at 6:40 AM, AlanMP said:

This is my first posted score that involves the new playing conditions calculation. I guess this means the nine holes were playing a half stroke harder due to the weather conditions? I played in the morning. Conditions were soft cause it had poured the night before so I guess maybe I wasn't getting the normal roll out on the fairways. The weather was much worse in the afternoon that day so maybe that weather is being taken into account? Either way, the new handicap system is interesting. Anyone else had their scores adjusted due to weather? Capture.PNG.e6169a493e13bb6464dfac5dd4a26abd.PNG

I am assuming the -0.5 is the adjustment? I have had one score adjusted by PCC and it shows +1 (18 holes). So my question is, was the course playing easier and the adjustment is down or is it just visually presented differently?Capture.JPG.4af17eae8b61757fb11bb69ee6529746.JPG

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25 minutes ago, dhartmann34 said:

Here's what the CDGA says about the PCC...

Makes perfect sense, that's directly from this document from the USGA:

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Handicap/world-handicap-system/WHS Change Summaries.pdf

For anyone interested, the document is a pretty complete list of 13 of the major changes, an explanation of the "old" rule, and the reason the change to the new rule was made.

18 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

I am assuming the -0.5 is the adjustment? I have had one score adjusted by PCC and it shows +1 (18 holes). So my question is, was the course playing easier and the adjustment is down or is it just visually presented differently?Capture.JPG.4af17eae8b61757fb11bb69ee6529746.JPG

Yeah, for a 9-hole score they use half of the -1 PCC adjustment.  The PCC will range from -1 (for easy days) to +3 (for high-score days).  The formula is:

Differential = (113/Slope Rating) x (Adjusted Score - Course Rating - PCC). 

So a positive PCC decreases the differential.

 

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2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Makes perfect sense, that's directly from this document from the USGA:

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/Handicap/world-handicap-system/WHS Change Summaries.pdf

For anyone interested, the document is a pretty complete list of 13 of the major changes, an explanation of the "old" rule, and the reason the change to the new rule was made.

Yeah, for a 9-hole score they use half of the -1 PCC adjustment.  The PCC will range from -1 (for easy days) to +3 (for high-score days).  The formula is:

Differential = (113/Slope Rating) x (Adjusted Score - Course Rating - PCC). 

So a positive PCC decreases the differential.

 

Ok that is what my understanding was. The OP sounded like it was an increase due to the weather when actuality it was a decrease in difficulty based on scores that day. 

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1 minute ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Ok that is what my understanding was. The OP sounded like it was an increase due to the weather when actuality it was a decrease in difficulty based on scores that day. 

I'm laughing at myself, I didn't even notice the actual PCC was negative, I just assumed he was right when he talked about increased difficulty.  A negative PCC indicates that scoring was lower than normally expected, easier conditions.

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I had no idea, my first thought was that the negative meant is was playing harder. Good to know that I was wrong. Now it makes sense and answers my original question. 

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  • 1 month later...

The PCC i believe is an Accumulation of all scores posted for that course on that day, and adjusts based on those scores depending how everyone scores within their HCP range. We played Pine Needles in southern pines earlier in the year, it was cold, windy, rainy, and then it snowed from hole 12 until 18. Everyone’s scores were up, I shot an 81, which was the 3rd lowest in our group of 12 that includes 6 guys that have Hcp less than 2. It was a crappy day for golf. This is what it looks like when PCC is applied.  you can see on that day the PCC is +1. 

34EFC176-6988-4571-984C-A0CB85647371.jpeg

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  • 5 weeks later...

Thanks for all the info guys.  I came to the forum asking the exact same questions.  Have been getting better over the past couple of years so decided to get an official USGA handicap this year. 

Just logged two scores so far this year (PA just re-opened) and was surprised to see my first round had no PCC adjustment.  I thought it was extremely gusty that day, and was hoping to see the adjustment, but I guess that just means I didn't handle the wind as well as other handicap scores that came in on that date 😀

I'd be curious to query a course's PCC #'s over a time frame and see it looks like in general?  Like how many days was the PCC over 0, and then look to see if you could determine any attributes that caused that (weather, wind, etc.)?

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Thanks for all the info guys.  I came to the forum asking the exact same questions.  Have been getting better over the past couple of years so decided to get an official USGA handicap this year. 
Just logged two scores so far this year (PA just re-opened) and was surprised to see my first round had no PCC adjustment.  I thought it was extremely gusty that day, and was hoping to see the adjustment, but I guess that just means I didn't handle the wind as well as other handicap scores that came in on that date
I'd be curious to query a course's PCC #'s over a time frame and see it looks like in general?  Like how many days was the PCC over 0, and then look to see if you could determine any attributes that caused that (weather, wind, etc.)?

We've been playing since April 1st this year, lots of blustery cold days but none of our scores have been adjusted. I assume this is our Club's responsibility to provide that info to GHIN?


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25 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:


We've been playing since April 1st this year, lots of blustery cold days but none of our scores have been adjusted. I assume this is our Club's responsibility to provide that info to GHIN?


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The scores are posted, and the PCC is determined by the scores.  There is no qualitative evaluation based on perceptions of wind, rain, pin positions, or anything else that might influence scores.  Only the scores count, and only the scores posted on the same day as the round is played.

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The scores are posted, and the PCC is determined by the scores.  There is no qualitative evaluation based on perceptions of wind, rain, pin positions, or anything else that might influence scores.  Only the scores count, and only the scores posted on the same day as the round is played.

Thx Dave, didn't realize it was actual score based


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The scores are posted, and the PCC is determined by the scores.  There is no qualitative evaluation based on perceptions of wind, rain, pin positions, or anything else that might influence scores.  Only the scores count, and only the scores posted on the same day as the round is played.
Based on this, being a public course golfer I am expecting that I will never see a PCC adjustment. If not enough USGA members also play the same course as me and post same day, there isn't enough data to warrant an adjustment. And they don't adjust based on region or weather? Two of my rounds have been cart path only days so the course was not in the shape of normal playing conditions. Is not even a regional or sectional adjustment? I want to make sure I understand.

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We had rain and a two-club wind this morning, so I’m curious to see how that affects the handicap.


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  • 7 months later...

I posted about 50 rounds this year and did not have any adjusted for PCC.  I definitely had some days where course played tougher and easier never saw an adjustment.  Wondering if others had many adjustments?

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I posted about 50 rounds this year and did not have any adjusted for PCC.  I definitely had some days where course played tougher and easier never saw an adjustment.  Wondering if others had many adjustments?
I had one that I noticed - it was at Arcadia Bluffs over Labor Day weekend when the wind was whipping. It was a +2 PCC, knocking my posted 80 down to a 78. My handicap is through WSGA, which makes it difficult to actually see PCC, so there might be more (we expected an adjustment on this one, so we actually watched for it, and one of the guys find it much easier using another app - can confirm WSGA applied it, but I still don't see it on my card in any way).

I'm pretty sure it's all based on who actually plays that course that day and the scores they post, not necessarily the specific conditions. The assumption is that if posted scores are high, conditions were tough; if posted scores were low, conditions were easy. That also brings in other external factors, things like: did enough people play the course? (If conditions are brutal but only a few people play, there's likely no adjustment). Did some choose not to post because of the conditions? Was everyone honest with their score that day (like in tough conditions, did they just "count it as a bogey" on a couple holes)? All of these are general handicap integrity questions, but there are a lot of sandbaggers and vanities out there -- conditions and/or outcomes might influence their decision on whether to post that score or just let it slide.

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8 hours ago, mwr57 said:

I posted about 50 rounds this year and did not have any adjusted for PCC.  I definitely had some days where course played tougher and easier never saw an adjustment.  Wondering if others had many adjustments?

I've never had a round adjusted after about 100 rounds. Played in Ohio in cold, windy and rainy weather and the score is always  the same as entered. I don't believe PCC works - but then I don't understand the internal operations for making it work - is it automatic or does it require manual intervention by the local Pro shop. I'll bet @DaveP043 would know. 

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