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New Handicap System - Playing Conditions Calculation


AlanMP
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The PCC i believe is an Accumulation of all scores posted for that course on that day, and adjusts based on those scores depending how everyone scores within their HCP range. We played Pine Needles in southern pines earlier in the year, it was cold, windy, rainy, and then it snowed from hole 12 until 18. Everyone’s scores were up, I shot an 81, which was the 3rd lowest in our group of 12 that includes 6 guys that have Hcp less than 2. It was a crappy day for golf. This is what it looks like when PCC is applied.  you can see on that day the PCC is +1. 

34EFC176-6988-4571-984C-A0CB85647371.jpeg

Edited by Kor.A.Door

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  • 5 weeks later...

Thanks for all the info guys.  I came to the forum asking the exact same questions.  Have been getting better over the past couple of years so decided to get an official USGA handicap this year. 

Just logged two scores so far this year (PA just re-opened) and was surprised to see my first round had no PCC adjustment.  I thought it was extremely gusty that day, and was hoping to see the adjustment, but I guess that just means I didn't handle the wind as well as other handicap scores that came in on that date 😀

I'd be curious to query a course's PCC #'s over a time frame and see it looks like in general?  Like how many days was the PCC over 0, and then look to see if you could determine any attributes that caused that (weather, wind, etc.)?

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Thanks for all the info guys.  I came to the forum asking the exact same questions.  Have been getting better over the past couple of years so decided to get an official USGA handicap this year. 
Just logged two scores so far this year (PA just re-opened) and was surprised to see my first round had no PCC adjustment.  I thought it was extremely gusty that day, and was hoping to see the adjustment, but I guess that just means I didn't handle the wind as well as other handicap scores that came in on that date [emoji3]
I'd be curious to query a course's PCC #'s over a time frame and see it looks like in general?  Like how many days was the PCC over 0, and then look to see if you could determine any attributes that caused that (weather, wind, etc.)?

We've been playing since April 1st this year, lots of blustery cold days but none of our scores have been adjusted. I assume this is our Club's responsibility to provide that info to GHIN?


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25 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:


We've been playing since April 1st this year, lots of blustery cold days but none of our scores have been adjusted. I assume this is our Club's responsibility to provide that info to GHIN?


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The scores are posted, and the PCC is determined by the scores.  There is no qualitative evaluation based on perceptions of wind, rain, pin positions, or anything else that might influence scores.  Only the scores count, and only the scores posted on the same day as the round is played.

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The scores are posted, and the PCC is determined by the scores.  There is no qualitative evaluation based on perceptions of wind, rain, pin positions, or anything else that might influence scores.  Only the scores count, and only the scores posted on the same day as the round is played.

Thx Dave, didn't realize it was actual score based


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:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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The scores are posted, and the PCC is determined by the scores.  There is no qualitative evaluation based on perceptions of wind, rain, pin positions, or anything else that might influence scores.  Only the scores count, and only the scores posted on the same day as the round is played.
Based on this, being a public course golfer I am expecting that I will never see a PCC adjustment. If not enough USGA members also play the same course as me and post same day, there isn't enough data to warrant an adjustment. And they don't adjust based on region or weather? Two of my rounds have been cart path only days so the course was not in the shape of normal playing conditions. Is not even a regional or sectional adjustment? I want to make sure I understand.

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We had rain and a two-club wind this morning, so I’m curious to see how that affects the handicap.


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  • 7 months later...

I posted about 50 rounds this year and did not have any adjusted for PCC.  I definitely had some days where course played tougher and easier never saw an adjustment.  Wondering if others had many adjustments?

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I posted about 50 rounds this year and did not have any adjusted for PCC.  I definitely had some days where course played tougher and easier never saw an adjustment.  Wondering if others had many adjustments?
I had one that I noticed - it was at Arcadia Bluffs over Labor Day weekend when the wind was whipping. It was a +2 PCC, knocking my posted 80 down to a 78. My handicap is through WSGA, which makes it difficult to actually see PCC, so there might be more (we expected an adjustment on this one, so we actually watched for it, and one of the guys find it much easier using another app - can confirm WSGA applied it, but I still don't see it on my card in any way).

I'm pretty sure it's all based on who actually plays that course that day and the scores they post, not necessarily the specific conditions. The assumption is that if posted scores are high, conditions were tough; if posted scores were low, conditions were easy. That also brings in other external factors, things like: did enough people play the course? (If conditions are brutal but only a few people play, there's likely no adjustment). Did some choose not to post because of the conditions? Was everyone honest with their score that day (like in tough conditions, did they just "count it as a bogey" on a couple holes)? All of these are general handicap integrity questions, but there are a lot of sandbaggers and vanities out there -- conditions and/or outcomes might influence their decision on whether to post that score or just let it slide.

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8 hours ago, mwr57 said:

I posted about 50 rounds this year and did not have any adjusted for PCC.  I definitely had some days where course played tougher and easier never saw an adjustment.  Wondering if others had many adjustments?

I've never had a round adjusted after about 100 rounds. Played in Ohio in cold, windy and rainy weather and the score is always  the same as entered. I don't believe PCC works - but then I don't understand the internal operations for making it work - is it automatic or does it require manual intervention by the local Pro shop. I'll bet @DaveP043 would know. 

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1 hour ago, tony@CIC said:

I've never had a round adjusted after about 100 rounds. Played in Ohio in cold, windy and rainy weather and the score is always  the same as entered. I don't believe PCC works - but then I don't understand the internal operations for making it work - is it automatic or does it require manual intervention by the local Pro shop. I'll bet @DaveP043 would know. 

The PCC is automatic, based only on the scores posted on that course, and posted before midnight on the day of play.  If there are fewer than 8 scores posted, there is no adjustment.  I believe (can't verify) that the more scores that are posted, the smaller the variance from "normal" to induce a PCC, that makes as I understand statistical analysis.  Last time I checked, we'd had fewer than 10 PCC adjustments all year at my home club, and I didn't see any on the 60+ days I played.  The PCC wasn't designed to be a frequent thing, or to have a huge impact on handicaps.

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28 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The PCC is automatic, based only on the scores posted on that course, and posted before midnight on the day of play.  If there are fewer than 8 scores posted, there is no adjustment.  I believe (can't verify) that the more scores that are posted, the smaller the variance from "normal" to induce a PCC, that makes as I understand statistical analysis.  Last time I checked, we'd had fewer than 10 PCC adjustments all year at my home club, and I didn't see any on the 60+ days I played.  The PCC wasn't designed to be a frequent thing, or to have a huge impact on handicaps.

Thanks Dave, I figured you knew the answer. 

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:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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5 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

I've never had a round adjusted after about 100 rounds. Played in Ohio in cold, windy and rainy weather and the score is always  the same as entered. I don't believe PCC works - but then I don't understand the internal operations for making it work - is it automatic or does it require manual intervention by the local Pro shop. I'll bet @DaveP043 would know. 

My understanding is it is automatic

Here is a link to GHIN explanation

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/5 6 Playing Conditions Calculation.htm

 

 

Edited by mwr57

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  • 2 months later...

I had one round in 2020 adjusted for PCC.  It was a huge group (4 hours worth of 4-some tee times) of us played on a pretty tough course, most of us for the 1st time, and all GHIN registered golfers, so I think the shear volume of rounds being higher than normal scores that day contributed to it. 

Must have benefited any members that played outside of our group that day!

It showed up as a 2.0 in the app

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Last year we played in a bunch of challenging conditions; cold, high winds and never had a PCC adjustment, note; all of us do post our rounds on GHIN the same day we play.  I've often wondered if I club just wasn't providing the feed to adjust the scores. 

Left Hand orientation

:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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On 1/14/2020 at 8:40 AM, AlanMP said:

This is my first posted score that involves the new playing conditions calculation. I guess this means the nine holes were playing a half stroke harder due to the weather conditions? I played in the morning. Conditions were soft cause it had poured the night before so I guess maybe I wasn't getting the normal roll out on the fairways. The weather was much worse in the afternoon that day so maybe that weather is being taken into account? Either way, the new handicap system is interesting. Anyone else had their scores adjusted due to weather? Capture.PNG.e6169a493e13bb6464dfac5dd4a26abd.PNG

Yeah my Scottsdale buddy just had a round at a +2 believe it or not...

 

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4 hours ago, tony@CIC said:

Last year we played in a bunch of challenging conditions; cold, high winds and never had a PCC adjustment, note; all of us do post our rounds on GHIN the same day we play.  I've often wondered if I club just wasn't providing the feed to adjust the scores. 

As I understand it, your State Associations dataset is automatically linked to the nationwide USGA data.  As long as you're posting, you're doing your job.  What I do see is that on miserable days, lots of people don't post (vanity handicappers), or people in general not posting on the same day of play.  The fewer scores posted for analysis, the larger the deviation must be to get an adjustment.

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