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Majmike

Patrick Reed Denials and PGA Tour Non Action

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I am extremely dismayed by the PGA Tour staff's handling of Patrick Reed's alleged not cheating sand bunker shot at Hero Challenge.  First, they believed his testimony that he wasn't aware of his action not once but twice.  In the court of law, video evidence holds far more weight than oral testimony.   Second, the penalty given does not meet the standard set by other tours and incidents over the years.  The Euro tour has suspended players for long term for egregious violations even after denials.  Local golfing association also suspend or bar players who are caught committing wilful rules violations especially when it is to gain an advantage of other players. This was not dropping the ball a few inches incorrectly like TW did at the Masters, it was a wilful action to gain advantage over his fellow  players for $$$$. Finally, by not taking strict action against Reed, what does it now say about this honorable game and it's great history of players calling penalty violations on themselves. What does this say to First Tee youth about cheating, if you say you didn't do it (even if we have video or eyewitness evidence) then we will let you play on.  Additionally, I think his caddy should also be suspended as he was witness to Reeds actions and did nothing.  Finally, I wrote the PGA Tour regarding their lack of action and my concerns on its impact to golf.  Guess what their response was........none.   It's there typical stick their head in the sand and hope it goes away.  

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I don't really care, but I do know Patrick Reed and the PGA know a LOT more about it than we do. I have no idea if he realized what he'd done or what his intent was at the time. I've been in sand where the glare made it very hard to see, who knows. And I've been in plenty of sand traps, moving a little sand from behind the ball doesn't make a huge difference, you still have to blast out - though I am NOT saying what he did was OK. He got caught, he was penalized, and he was a gentlemen about it according to the official at the time.

By all accounts he's not a saint, but then he's not the only player who isn't. I am sure the PGA will act when/if it becomes necessary, and I don't assume I know more about it than those involved do. Our media, golf and otherwise, has gotten really good at trial by media, guilty until proven innocent and sensationalizing everything these days. If I believed all of it, I'd go loony. We all make it worse thanks to social media going on an on about things we sometimes barely know about - like we KNOW better than those directly involved. Somehow we're experts on anything and everything these days...

With millions of people homeless, hungry or persecuted around the world, I have a hard time getting “extremely dismayed” about Patrick Reed cheating in a golf tournament. First world problems. Perspective.

Edited by Middler
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The Patrick Reed situation at the Hero World Challenge isn't nearly as egregious as Sung Kang's cheating incident at the Quicken Loans National in 2018.  People just really don't like Patrick Reed, so they make a bigger deal out of it.  Not that Reed ever gives anyone a reason not to dislike him.

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How is this even a story anymore. Reed per the rules officials committed an infraction. The rules officials heard his story, gave theirs and assessed the appropriate penalty. Reed accepted it and went about his business.

PGA has made their statement. Time to move on to everything else going on in golf 

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3 hours ago, Middler said:

With millions of people homeless, hungry or persecuted around the world, I have a hard time getting “extremely dismayed” about Patrick Reed cheating in a golf tournament. First world problems. Perspective.

 

... Can I get an Amen? 

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8 hours ago, Middler said:

With millions of people homeless, hungry or persecuted around the world, I have a hard time getting “extremely dismayed” about Patrick Reed cheating in a golf tournament. First world problems. Perspective.

I get what you are saying, but this is always the go to response, when anyone doesn't want to deal with the issue at hand.  You paint a picture with a broad brush and make the issue at hand that the OP has wanted to discuss a non-issue and think that resolves the problem, or makes the problem go away.  And frankly, since you brought it up, even Jesus said that we'd always have the poor amongst us, so your broad brush issues are so large, that you could use them on pretty much anything you'd prefer not to discuss.

Look, I know this has been discussed in at least one other thread and we're probably beating a dead horse at this point, but I think the OP has a legitimate post.  He's also new here, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.  This is also a golf forum, and as such, we have a legitimate topic that  we should feel free to discuss.  If you personally don't feel like discussing it, then don't comment on it, but as it is, let's discuss this.

My personal opinion sort of goes along with what the media was saying about Patrick Reed after someone yelled out, "CHEATER" at the end of the Sentry Tournament of Champions.  Like the frustration that the OP has with the PGA Tour, I don't think this issue will go away, simply because the PGA Tour rolled out it's standard BS response to this incident.  Like the OP, I can see right though that BS, and know that the powers that be on the PGA Tour are giving me lip service and being downright dishonest with their press release.  I mean, come on, Patrick Reed and "Gentleman" in the same sentence are oxymorons.

And because the PGA Tour opted to take the high road and issue a bogus statement on this and consider the matter closed, people like the OP, and me, are not going to let this issue die until we feel the Patrick Reed has paid an appropriate penalty for his obviously intentional actions in trying to cheat in this game of golf.  Again, this is my opinion, and the video doesn't lie, unlike Patrick Reed and the PGA Tour.

And ultimately that is what we are dealing with here.  A very high profile player who is lying, and the organization he plays for, is lying to try and cover this up and make it go away.  Well, get your popcorn ready folks, because I think Patrick Reed is in for a VERY long year on the PGA Tour, where he'll be heckled and abused verbally in every tournament he enters.  People aren't going to take the high road, just because the PGA Tour tells them to.  People are going to speak their mind, and this will continue until the general public feels that justice was served.  And frankly, I think it's going to be a LONG time until we let this sleeping dog lie.

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17 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Can I get an Amen? 

A very big Amen!  Oh and maybe Reed can convince Kuch to "shortchange" his caddie - that'll take the PR pressure off of him. 

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16 hours ago, GSwag said:

I get what you are saying, but this is always the go to response, when anyone doesn't want to deal with the issue at hand.  You paint a picture with a broad brush and make the issue at hand that the OP has wanted to discuss a non-issue and think that resolves the problem, or makes the problem go away.  And frankly, since you brought it up, even Jesus said that we'd always have the poor amongst us, so your broad brush issues are so large, that you could use them on pretty much anything you'd prefer not to discuss.

Look, I know this has been discussed in at least one other thread and we're probably beating a dead horse at this point, but I think the OP has a legitimate post.  He's also new here, so I give him the benefit of the doubt.  This is also a golf forum, and as such, we have a legitimate topic that  we should feel free to discuss.  If you personally don't feel like discussing it, then don't comment on it, but as it is, let's discuss this.

My personal opinion sort of goes along with what the media was saying about Patrick Reed after someone yelled out, "CHEATER" at the end of the Sentry Tournament of Champions.  Like the frustration that the OP has with the PGA Tour, I don't think this issue will go away, simply because the PGA Tour rolled out it's standard BS response to this incident.  Like the OP, I can see right though that BS, and know that the powers that be on the PGA Tour are giving me lip service and being downright dishonest with their press release.  I mean, come on, Patrick Reed and "Gentleman" in the same sentence are oxymorons.

And because the PGA Tour opted to take the high road and issue a bogus statement on this and consider the matter closed, people like the OP, and me, are not going to let this issue die until we feel the Patrick Reed has paid an appropriate penalty for his obviously intentional actions in trying to cheat in this game of golf.  Again, this is my opinion, and the video doesn't lie, unlike Patrick Reed and the PGA Tour.

And ultimately that is what we are dealing with here.  A very high profile player who is lying, and the organization he plays for, is lying to try and cover this up and make it go away.  Well, get your popcorn ready folks, because I think Patrick Reed is in for a VERY long year on the PGA Tour, where he'll be heckled and abused verbally in every tournament he enters.  People aren't going to take the high road, just because the PGA Tour tells them to.  People are going to speak their mind, and this will continue until the general public feels that justice was served.  And frankly, I think it's going to be a LONG time until we let this sleeping dog lie.

We agree to disagree, it’s that simple. Most people don’t care enough to worry about it, but a tiny few who think it’s worthy of all this fuss will get all the attention. SOP for media today. Patrick Reed will get what he deserves without our entitled “outrage.” More than enough said for me.

Edited by Middler
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I see the differing opinions about Reed whether he cheated or not.  My intent in my original posting is that the video evidence is extremely damaging.  If you were at a US Open and gave the story that I didn't know I was doing this.. they most likely would have been DQd on the spot at the minimum.  Sports has no room, especially on pro level, for cheating as our youth look up to these athletes. They are roll models like it or not.  Now we see there was cheating in baseball.   At least the parties involved have shown regret and made apologies and have accepted the punishment which is severe.  Mr Reed has done none of that and he still insists that he didn't know he was brushing back the sand not once but twice.  In my opinion, that pig doesn't fly and he will now be forever thought by many to be a cheater and bring dishonor to this great game.  Even worse though, as mentioned, the PGA Tour staff just buried their heads in the sand.  

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14 hours ago, Majmike said:

I see the differing opinions about Reed whether he cheated or not.  My intent in my original posting is that the video evidence is extremely damaging.  If you were at a US Open and gave the story that I didn't know I was doing this.. they most likely would have been DQd on the spot at the minimum.  Sports has no room, especially on pro level, for cheating as our youth look up to these athletes. They are roll models like it or not.  Now we see there was cheating in baseball.   At least the parties involved have shown regret and made apologies and have accepted the punishment which is severe.  Mr Reed has done none of that and he still insists that he didn't know he was brushing back the sand not once but twice.  In my opinion, that pig doesn't fly and he will now be forever thought by many to be a cheater and bring dishonor to this great game.  Even worse though, as mentioned, the PGA Tour staff just buried their heads in the sand.  

We disagree, no biggie. Reed broke a rule, was penalized, and accepted it. The PGA did their job. Somehow you think you know better than Reed or the PGA - you don’t, you’re making up a narrative to suit your POV. For example, where has Reed “still insisted” that he didn’t know he was brushing back the sand? He acknowledged it when he was shown the video at that day.

There have been cheating incidents in every sport since forever - the White Sox scandal was 1919. “Now we see there was cheating in baseball” - are you serious?

The days of athletes, actors, politicians and others serving as role models ended long ago too.

Reed has and will continue to pay the price for his controversial actions. His (endorsement) earning potential has already been diminished and probably won’t recover. That’s how “we” make our statement these days.

Edited by Middler
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He sure went fast in the second round of the MGS draft... and I still want to trade for him 🙂.

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Except Phil knowingly and willingly broke the rules at the US Open when he putted a moving ball, and yet he wasn't DQ'd.

The Reed situation should no longer be a story. He was assessed a penalty, which he accepted. That's it. Story's done.

All he did was offer his side of the story for context. The video evidence was not nearly as damaging as you are claiming it to be. It's one angle, directly behind, which does not give a clear indication of exactly where the sand he brushed back was in relation to his ball. His explanation was more than plausible. He accepted his penalty regardless of that. There's nothing else to be said about it.

I see the differing opinions about Reed whether he cheated or not.  My intent in my original posting is that the video evidence is extremely damaging.  If you were at a US Open and gave the story that I didn't know I was doing this.. they most likely would have been DQd on the spot at the minimum.  Sports has no room, especially on pro level, for cheating as our youth look up to these athletes. They are roll models like it or not.  Now we see there was cheating in baseball.   At least the parties involved have shown regret and made apologies and have accepted the punishment which is severe.  Mr Reed has done none of that and he still insists that he didn't know he was brushing back the sand not once but twice.  In my opinion, that pig doesn't fly and he will now be forever thought by many to be a cheater and bring dishonor to this great game.  Even worse though, as mentioned, the PGA Tour staff just buried their heads in the sand.  


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