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Is an aftermarket shaft worth it?


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Checkout the video below. Take it for what its worth, the stock shaft is not Matt's optimal profile, but he is really spraying the ball around with the stock shaft.

 

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Let's re-arrange these questions in the order you should be asking them. Should I get fit for a driver? Is the $100-$150 worth it?  In my opinion, absolutely yes.  From the sound of things you've

... As a life long shaft-a-holic there really is no standard answer to this question. For myself, once I found the type off shaft that gives me the best numbers, there is not much difference between s

if you don't want aftermarket, you should at least get fit for the stock shafts.   You should be able to find something withing their offering that works the best for your swing.   Most manufacturers

Checkout the video below. Take it for what its worth, the stock shaft is not Matt's optimal profile, but he is really spraying the ball around with the stock shaft.
 

Definitely. At the end of the day, if it helps make you more consistent then it’s worth it if it’s in your budget.

I always like to compare the best fit from the stock or low-charge offerings versus whatever true “best fit” is. The. You can decide if it’s worth the investment.


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On 1/30/2020 at 11:03 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

That is false. The difference between them is where they were/are made. They are designed to the same specs with the non hc being made in Asia, while up until a couple years ago the hc being made in San Diego. Now they are all made in Asia. I spent time with the PX team a few years ago, this question came up then and has come up on multiple forums and PX has confirmed they are designed to the same specs. 
 

I’ve seen others ask about titleist having different specs listed compared to what px has listed and px confirmed the shaft titleist has was the same as the rest and the difference was in how titleist measures certain specs compared to how px does. The TM site has a pic of a hzrdus green that the specs on the shaft don’t match the px specs and px has confirmed the shaft available in SIM is the same as listed on px website 

I have been wondering about this for sometime... What then is the point of purchasing the HC shaft? 

Driver:taylormade-small: SIM 10.5, Graphite Design Tour AD-XC 6X 

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I have been wondering about this for sometime... What then is the point of purchasing the HC shaft? 

Marketing baby.

(This reply is half sarcastic as many will find value in the fact that it was handmade, limited in numbers, etc. it’s more of a luxury thing... although no matter what PX tells us people swear there is a difference in spec of them.)


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1 minute ago, B.Boston said:


Marketing baby. emoji6.png

(This reply is half sarcastic as many will find value in the fact that it was handmade, limited in numbers, etc. it’s more of a luxury thing... although no matter what PX tells us people swear there is a difference in spec of them.)


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I guess you can only get the TX versions in the HC so I guess thats a small difference. Placebos are powerful drugs😆

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17 minutes ago, Brandon M said:

I have been wondering about this for sometime... What then is the point of purchasing the HC shaft? 

Depends on where ones point of view is. Some people like the idea of purchasing something made in the US, others like buying a limited production item. Some have a mental block that an hc is better than a mass produced version.
 

To an extent it’s a marketing strategy by PX to offer the consumer a limited item that was hand rolled by the experts. Some people say they can feel the difference between a hc and a non hc. I haven’t been able to and I’ve tested several versions and even have one I rolled that gave me the same performance that the one rolled by their staff. 
 

 

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I guess you can only get the TX versions in the HC so I guess thats a small difference. Placebos are powerful drugs

Makes sense that the TX would all be handcrafted or Small Batch. A small population of people fit into that anyway, and I doubt they’re getting stuff off the rack.


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10 minutes ago, Brandon M said:

I guess you can only get the TX versions in the HC so I guess thats a small difference. Placebos are powerful drugs😆

The TX I’m guessing you are referred to are the ones in the smoke line. Those are made mostly in Asia and there are very few shafts that come out of San Diego now. San Diego is primarily a r&d facility now and their staff of shaft rollers are focused on that. 

Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

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2 minutes ago, B.Boston said:


Makes sense that the TX would all be handcrafted or Small Batch. A small population of people fit into that anyway, and I doubt they’re getting stuff off the rack. emoji106.png


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There are various small batch out there. If you look at their site the smoke green are all small batch where as in yellow and black the TX is the only small batch. 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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There are various small batch out there. If you look at their site the smoke green are all small batch where as in yellow and black the TX is the only small batch. 

Yeah sorry didn’t mean to make it sound like all small batch was TX. Just that it made sense some flexes would only be available as Handcrafted or Small Batch since the market is small for those.


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6 minutes ago, B.Boston said:


Yeah sorry didn’t mean to make it sound like all small batch was TX. Just that it made sense some flexes would only be available as Handcrafted or Small Batch since the market is small for those.


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All shafts are handcrafted. That term on the hzrdus line was to indicate they were hand rolled in San Diego but the vast majority of shafts on the market are hand rolled the difference being the number of people rolling shafts. In SD they only had 5 people rolling shafts and they could do about 60/day each. In the factory they can do thousands a day and usually run multiple shifts per day. 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

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Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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Like everyone has said it all comes down to what works for you best.  I have tried everything.  Accra, atmos, graphite design, px hc/small batch.   Look at my witb newbie witb - I am a shaft ho.   With that said , in my callaway epic driver, I games the stock Fuji made for callaway pro green.    I hint that thing on a rope- until the airline broke it and then the club ho in me just wanted to try something else.  Right now my sim max d has a graphite design tour ad xc. I also have a small batch 6.0 riptide on the way.   I too have talked to true temper and they say there is no difference between small batch and not-  but I swear the riptide small batch is a bit stiffer...lol.  Mind **** 
 

 

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A lot of good input already in the thread. At the end of the day, it's about peace of mind and budget. There are a lot of club companies offering high quality stock shafts in different bend profiles with different balance points and different characteristics. I'm in the fitting industrie since roughly the year 2000 and had a couple of customers in the meantime. The longer I do my job, the more simplified my approach has gotten over the years. It comes down to some simple things. First of all, it's about getting length, weight and balance in the correct ballpark. Next this is somewho related to EI curve and torque - it's about feel and trust. If you get a combination, a player feels comfortable with, he will perform nicely with it. If you have a setup, a player doesn't like the feel of, they will struggle to produce consistent results.

As for high-end aftermarket vs. Stock - the main difference is consistency within a production run. Most stock shafts are done in factories, that can produce high volume with a high number of employees. Those guys were trained for their job, but lack working experience. So while the materials will be identical (sticking to PX std. vs. PX small batch), the guys in the small batch line have more experience and doing what the do more consistently. So if you get fitted for a small batch shaft, chances are high, that the ordered shaft will feel and play the same. With the standard shaft, you might find slightly higher variances within the production batches due to the workers being less experienced.

This also is one of the reasons, why shafts made in Japan have such a high reputation. A lot of the workers have been with their companies for a long time. They know, how to put the different layers on the mandrel and first of all, getting the pre-peg right.

During a fitting, you should be able to find a stock shaft, that works perfectly fine for you. And chances are high these days, that the ordered product will work just fine. That used to be different, when I started doing fittings and clubmaking. The general quality of the OEM product increased a lot over those two decades. So - there is no need for an expensive upgrade aftermarket shaft anymore to make a club work consistently. But for the peace of mind - going high end/high quality aftermarket - is always an option.

Long story short - get a quality fitting. Compare stock and high end aftermarket and see, if there is something in it for you. But definitely - Get Fit!

Cheers,

Michael

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3 hours ago, Golfmanufaktur said:

A lot of good input already in the thread. At the end of the day, it's about peace of mind and budget. There are a lot of club companies offering high quality stock shafts in different bend profiles with different balance points and different characteristics. I'm in the fitting industrie since roughly the year 2000 and had a couple of customers in the meantime. The longer I do my job, the more simplified my approach has gotten over the years. It comes down to some simple things. First of all, it's about getting length, weight and balance in the correct ballpark. Next this is somewho related to EI curve and torque - it's about feel and trust. If you get a combination, a player feels comfortable with, he will perform nicely with it. If you have a setup, a player doesn't like the feel of, they will struggle to produce consistent results.

As for high-end aftermarket vs. Stock - the main difference is consistency within a production run. Most stock shafts are done in factories, that can produce high volume with a high number of employees. Those guys were trained for their job, but lack working experience. So while the materials will be identical (sticking to PX std. vs. PX small batch), the guys in the small batch line have more experience and doing what the do more consistently. So if you get fitted for a small batch shaft, chances are high, that the ordered shaft will feel and play the same. With the standard shaft, you might find slightly higher variances within the production batches due to the workers being less experienced.

This also is one of the reasons, why shafts made in Japan have such a high reputation. A lot of the workers have been with their companies for a long time. They know, how to put the different layers on the mandrel and first of all, getting the pre-peg right.

During a fitting, you should be able to find a stock shaft, that works perfectly fine for you. And chances are high these days, that the ordered product will work just fine. That used to be different, when I started doing fittings and clubmaking. The general quality of the OEM product increased a lot over those two decades. So - there is no need for an expensive upgrade aftermarket shaft anymore to make a club work consistently. But for the peace of mind - going high end/high quality aftermarket - is always an option.

Long story short - get a quality fitting. Compare stock and high end aftermarket and see, if there is something in it for you. But definitely - Get Fit!

Cheers,

Michael

You do realize the small batch shafts are made in the same factory by the same people that make the other PX shafts right? The San Diego crew that used to do the handcrafted hzrdus shafts are more involved in the r&d work going on in the San Diego facility and the handcrafted work was shifted to the Asian factory a couple years ago. There are some small batch shafts on the market made in the USA but they are made in Asia as well. Also small batch is more of a designation for the TX flex versions of the hzrdus smoke line and is not the new designation for handcrafted 

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Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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Just now, RickyBobby_PR said:

You do realize the small batch shafts are made in the same factory by the same people that make the other PX shafts right? The San Diego crew that used to do the handcrafted hzrdus shafts are more involved in the r&d work going on in the San Diego facility and the handcrafted work was shifted to the Asian factory a couple years ago. There are some small batch shafts on the market made in the USA but they are made in Asia as well. Also small batch is more of a designation for the TX flex versions of the hzrdus smoke line and is not the new designation for handcrafted 

I do know, that they come from the same factory, but afaik and been told by TT/PX/ACCRA - they use different production lines for normal shafts and PX Small Batch.

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A lot of good input already in the thread. At the end of the day, it's about peace of mind and budget. There are a lot of club companies offering high quality stock shafts in different bend profiles with different balance points and different characteristics. I'm in the fitting industrie since roughly the year 2000 and had a couple of customers in the meantime. The longer I do my job, the more simplified my approach has gotten over the years. It comes down to some simple things. First of all, it's about getting length, weight and balance in the correct ballpark. Next this is somewho related to EI curve and torque - it's about feel and trust. If you get a combination, a player feels comfortable with, he will perform nicely with it. If you have a setup, a player doesn't like the feel of, they will struggle to produce consistent results.
As for high-end aftermarket vs. Stock - the main difference is consistency within a production run. Most stock shafts are done in factories, that can produce high volume with a high number of employees. Those guys were trained for their job, but lack working experience. So while the materials will be identical (sticking to PX std. vs. PX small batch), the guys in the small batch line have more experience and doing what the do more consistently. So if you get fitted for a small batch shaft, chances are high, that the ordered shaft will feel and play the same. With the standard shaft, you might find slightly higher variances within the production batches due to the workers being less experienced.
This also is one of the reasons, why shafts made in Japan have such a high reputation. A lot of the workers have been with their companies for a long time. They know, how to put the different layers on the mandrel and first of all, getting the pre-peg right.
During a fitting, you should be able to find a stock shaft, that works perfectly fine for you. And chances are high these days, that the ordered product will work just fine. That used to be different, when I started doing fittings and clubmaking. The general quality of the OEM product increased a lot over those two decades. So - there is no need for an expensive upgrade aftermarket shaft anymore to make a club work consistently. But for the peace of mind - going high end/high quality aftermarket - is always an option.
Long story short - get a quality fitting. Compare stock and high end aftermarket and see, if there is something in it for you. But definitely - Get Fit!
Cheers,
Michael

Accepted tolerances for a company are accepted tolerances.

In your example if one of the normal shafts was made by a lesser employee and the factory and fell outside of specs it wouldn’t be sold.

Newer workers may have a higher fail rate than the experienced workers, but the tolerances are the same between all of the PX lines.

In this example there’s no difference in the tolerances between PX’s HC, SB, and regular lines. Project X has told us this.

Japanese shaft makers like Nippon do have a reputation for fitting into tighter tolerances. How much of that is fact vs legend I am not sure.


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:titelist-small: Pro V1x vs :Snell: MTB-X vs :bridgestone-small: Tour B X

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45 minutes ago, Golfmanufaktur said:

I do know, that they come from the same factory, but afaik and been told by TT/PX/ACCRA - they use different production lines for normal shafts and PX Small Batch.

 

41 minutes ago, B.Boston said:


Accepted tolerances for a company are accepted tolerances.

In your example if one of the normal shafts was made by a lesser employee and the factory and fell outside of specs it wouldn’t be sold.

Newer workers may have a higher fail rate than the experienced workers, but the tolerances are the same between all of the PX lines.

In this example there’s no difference in the tolerances between PX’s HC, SB, and regular lines. Project X has told us this.

Japanese shaft makers like Nippon do have a reputation for fitting into tighter tolerances. How much of that is fact vs legend I am not sure.


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B.boston beat me to it. 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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6 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

B.boston beat me to it. 

That's interesting, since I got different information about that issue from True Sports - according to my info, the accepted tolerances in the small batch line are tighter compared to standard production. That`s the info, I received during a PFC seminar last year and got confirmed today by my contact.

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50 minutes ago, B.Boston said:


Accepted tolerances for a company are accepted tolerances.

In your example if one of the normal shafts was made by a lesser employee and the factory and fell outside of specs it wouldn’t be sold.

Newer workers may have a higher fail rate than the experienced workers, but the tolerances are the same between all of the PX lines.

In this example there’s no difference in the tolerances between PX’s HC, SB, and regular lines. Project X has told us this.

Japanese shaft makers like Nippon do have a reputation for fitting into tighter tolerances. How much of that is fact vs legend I am not sure.


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And I can assure you from 20 years of clubmaking experience, the tolerances on Made in Japan shafts are really tight and those shafts are fun to work with.

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And I can assure you from 20 years of clubmaking experience, the tolerances on Made in Japan shafts are really tight and those shafts are fun to work with.

Seems to be the case with a lot of stuff from Japan. Certainly some aspects of Japanese culture coming to play there.

I just got Nippon shafts in my wedges and will be checking them out when it comes time for new irons as well.


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:cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S

:cobra-small: Speedzone 4-Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:cobra-small: KING Forged Tec 5-GW - PX LZ 6.5

:cobra-small: KING MIM Black 52.12 Classic, 56.10 Versatile, 60.04 Widelow - KBS 610 Wedge

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:titelist-small: Pro V1x vs :Snell: MTB-X vs :bridgestone-small: Tour B X

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