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" I was raised to say please, thank you, and most definitely "I'm sorry". Look people in the eye when you talk, a firm handshake is a definition of character, and If you make a mistake or do someone wrong, you pull up your big boy/girl britches, swallow your pride and by God, make it right. "

... This is the way I raised my 2 sons. Especially my youngest that was always big for his age as I felt he had the added responsibility of not using his size against others and protecting weaker kids when it was warranted. I was very proud to watch him earn 1st Team All Conference honors as a DE at 6'3 and 250 in college. Although admittedly he was an animal between the whistles but never trash talked and respected his opponents and ref's. He is now 28 so right in the age range talked about here. I do think parenting has as much to do with it as the 6 foot bubble many of the younger generation exist in. 

... While I understand your frustration and certainly don't blame you for your response, I have always found kindness and or understanding beat being pi$$ed off the vast majority of the time. Had you confronted this individual in a non confrontational manner the results may have been different. "I just wanted to let you know your tee ball almost hit my 7 yr old daughter. It was very scary for both of us. So in the future, please yell FORE when you hit an errant shot and it will at least gives us a chance to either avoid the ball or take cover. In this case I could have just shielded my daughter." I think it is much harder to get mad at another person when they are being respectful. That said, of course they could have responded in the same way and then you know they are a lost cause and you just move on.  

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1 minute ago, Mr. 82 said:

It's all the way you choose to look at it.  I don't look at the book as depressing so much as the stories he shared from real people were actually relatable to me.  I guess empathy is the word here, as you read about others at your stage of life and the honest thoughts they share about experiences that didn't always turn out as planned, and you go, "yeah, I can relate to that."

For me it helps because when you read about others who have struggled with similar things that you have in your life, you don't feel so bad about your situation.  Sort of perspective on life thing.  Like the two trips I took to Nicaragua and saw people living next to a landfill in housing that didn't have electricity or running water, or plumbing of any kind, and they were actually making a living going through the garbage to sell anything of value they could find, and probably living on $2 a day.  When you see that, then you realize how truly blessed you are here in the United States.

 

Spot on. When I start whining about stuff that we would classify as "first world problems', I remind myself of people that are food deprived or have cancer or face addiction, etc. etc. and tell myself there but for the grace of god go I. 

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6 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I still think back to an instance last year or maybe 2018, when Jordan Spieth was off the green in a big crowd getting ready to hit a delicate shot to a short side pin  He very politely asked people to put their phones down.  They all seemed to, he then smiled and as he took his last look, turned and said to the crowd..."You know it's ok to actually just watch golf and not have to video it"   Perfectly made point! 

I think that a lot of this goes back to the point about "if it isn't on social media then it never happened". Most of the people taking video aren't doing it for themselves so much as the opportunity to post it on Facebook, Instagram, etc. "look", "I was here", "I witnessed this event". "Please acknowledge and comment that what I am doing is important, cool, relevant, etc". Which is sad because it's almost as if they're attending the event for every other reason than for themselves. It really is a sad thing that psychologically, people feel like they can't survive without the acknowledgement of the social media world. 

 

 

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On 1/27/2020 at 11:27 AM, azstu324 said:

So I want to get some POV's on a situation that happened on the course yesterday and whether or not my actions were warranted. I have to also tread lightly because I know that this isn't a depiction of all < 30-year-olds in the world but I feel like it's becoming more common in today's society. Part of me feels bad for letting my emotions get the best of me and another part of me feels like I could/should have done more. It's a tricky one. I'm 41. I was raised to say please, thank you, and most definitely "I'm sorry". Look people in the eye when you talk, a firm handshake is a definition of character, and If you make a mistake or do someone wrong, you pull up your big boy/girl britches, swallow your pride and by God, make it right. 

Yesterday I'm at one of my favorite exec's (Rolling Hills) with my daughter Kaylen who's 7. The course is a muni that sits in the middle of Tempe so it's kind of a tight layout on some holes but very challenging and fun and just enough to hold K's attention. Depending on the pairing and the traffic on the course, We have a couple of clubs for her to use when the opportunity presents itself. Yesterday was good because the course was packed and we weren't going anywhere anytime soon, the guys we got paired with were very friendly and encouraging of her to hit the ball as often as she could so it was really fun. She even got to play a couple holes from tee to green and I couldn't have been more proud. 

Well on one of the holes, she was tee'd up and ready to swing when a ball made a thud about 3' from where she was standing. I immediately scanned the layout and could tell who hit the ball. It was a very errant fairway shot that absolutely warranted a "FORE". Nobody in the group heard a thing coming from any direction. I told Kaylen to go sit in the cart and the other 2 to go on. "I've got some business to attend to". I patiently waited for the guy to come to his ball. He drove up, got out, and walked up to his ball like nothing happened (keep in mind he's hitting his approach from an adjacent hole tee box AND I'm standing 2' away from it). So I interrupted his swing practice and said "hold up man", "at what point did you intend to apologize for nearly hitting my kid, and not yelling a damn thing when you hit your ball right at us?".. He glanced at me, shrugged his shoulder, and then went back to trying to hit his shot as if to say "F" off and leave me alone, like I was the one being rude and interrupting his game. It was almost as if I was speaking a foreign language and he had no idea what I was saying. The guy couldn't have been that much younger than me but quite likely the next couple of generations where the aforementioned values have been misplaced. He hit a pretty good approach shot, and this is what set me off even more is that he had the swing mechanics to be more than aware of golf etiquette. So I then continued to try to get his proper attention by saying some other choice words that would have cost me at least $10 at home in the $1 swear jar. I wasn't looking for any physical altercations so much as to just try and force some common decency out of the emotionless turd of a human being. The guy then just turned around and walked back to his cart.. still as if I were just blubbering in a foreign language. He was with another guy who was pretty built but that didn't matter to me in the slightest. I also don't think that I was so intimidating that he was too scared to talk. I then closed my eyes, counted to 10 (seemed like 1000), cooled off and then went back to playing. 

Would anybody have done anything differently? Is this really the new era of human that's coming off of the production line? Keep in mind that my daughter's safety was threatened so my emotions, reactions, and adrenaline were all in Papa Bear mode. I realize that mistakes can happen and everybody deserves the benefit human error. I've hit shots where my depth perception failed me and ended up closer to a group than I anticipated and didn't get a chance to yell something.. but still I made a defined point to approach the group, apologize, and make things right and never once have I left without having a laugh with new friends on the course. 

Thanks as always!

 

One last commentary, especially having 3 children who are now middle age adults whom I'm very proud of and have great values. Children learn more by what we do rather then by what we tell them. Use every opportunity like this as an informal  teaching lesson - it'll stick with them for life. 

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4 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

I think that a lot of this goes back to the point about "if it isn't on social media then it never happened". 

 

... Reminded me of this commercial:

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7VtH/toyota-venza-facebook-friends

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3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Reminded me of this commercial:

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7VtH/toyota-venza-facebook-friends

🤣

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31 minutes ago, chisag said:

" I was raised to say please, thank you, and most definitely "I'm sorry". Look people in the eye when you talk, a firm handshake is a definition of character, and If you make a mistake or do someone wrong, you pull up your big boy/girl britches, swallow your pride and by God, make it right. "

... This is the way I raised my 2 sons. Especially my youngest that was always big for his age as I felt he had the added responsibility of not using his size against others and protecting weaker kids when it was warranted. I was very proud to watch him earn 1st Team All Conference honors as a DE at 6'3 and 250 in college. Although admittedly he was an animal between the whistles but never trash talked and respected his opponents and ref's. He is now 28 so right in the age range talked about here. I do think parenting has as much to do with it as the 6 foot bubble many of the younger generation exist in. 

... While I understand your frustration and certainly don't blame you for your response, I have always found kindness and or understanding beat being pi$$ed off the vast majority of the time. Had you confronted this individual in a non confrontational manner the results may have been different. "I just wanted to let you know your tee ball almost hit my 7 yr old daughter. It was very scary for both of us. So in the future, please yell FORE when you hit an errant shot and it will at least gives us a chance to either avoid the ball or take cover. In this case I could have just shielded my daughter." I think it is much harder to get mad at another person when they are being respectful. That said, of course they could have responded in the same way and then you know they are a lost cause and you just move on.  

There really is a lot of hindsight to this one and sometimes hindsight creates foresight right? 🙂. I think that in the moment, I really was expecting to have an educated conversation with the guy when he got to the ball as I've been on both sides of that conversation many many times. Something very similar to your 2nd paragraph suggestion. As I mentioned, I can give anyone the benefit of human error as I'm as guilty as anyone. Expecting him to make the first move though might have been my crucial mistake that lead to overheating. He may have just been trying resolve the situation in the only way he knew how by not talking about it.. I was trying resolve it in the only way I knew how by talking about it.. The world is silly isn't it? 

Edited by azstu324
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1 hour ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Wow!  A lot to digest there, but I don't think I could read more than 3 pages of a book that had that negative of slant.

Speaking for myself, I've had a great life.  No, I didn't get any college basketballs scholarships, didn't make it to the major leagues, and didn't invent something that mad me Billions.  But that's ok. I've had countless what I consider successful experiences in life, and the few that weren't successful, I learned from and don't regret.  I don't read a lot of business/life books either ones that are motivational or downers like yours appears to be.   I just go out and make each day and opportunity the best that I can, and very few nights do I go to sleep unsatisfied or upset. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, azstu324 said:

There really is a lot of hindsight to this one and sometimes hindsight creates foresight right? 🙂. I think that in the moment, I really was expecting to have an educated conversation with the guy when he got to the ball as I've been on both sides of that conversation many many times. Something very similar to your 2nd paragraph suggestion. As I mentioned, I can give anyone the benefit of human error as I'm as guilty as anyone. Expecting him to make the first move though might have been my crucial mistake that lead to overheating. He may have just been trying resolve the situation in the only way he knew how by not talking about it.. I was trying resolve it in the only way I knew how by talking about it.. The world is silly isn't it? 

 

... I will say my opinion comes form experience. When I was younger I had my share of confrontations and even now that I am older and wiser my playing pards have confronted others. In all  instances the other party was clearly in the wrong. What experience taught me is confronting someone without some respect almost always resulted in the situation going in the opposite direction we had hoped. It seems aggression is met with aggression, even when they knew they were in the wrong. On the other hand, respect was met without least some level of respect more often than not. And as I stated earlier, if it was still met with aggression or indifference, I doubt anything we could say would change their minds. 

... I am also reminded of George Carlin's great line "Have you ever noticed anyone driving slower than you is a MORON and anyone driving faster than you is a MANIAC!"  I have certainlyseen this on the golf course where slower groups think we should slow down and enjoy our round and faster groups think we should speed up to enjoy our round. 

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23 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Count me as one who hasn't lost hope for the younger crowd.

Put me in that group as well.  Manners and etiquette can be taught.  We drill it into the kids at TFT constantly.  Someone just has to take the time.  We all had someone to show us the way.

I do particularly enjoy it when we make the kids introduce themselves to strangers.  It's fun to push them out of their comfort zones.

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15 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

Put me in that group as well.  Manners and etiquette can be taught.  We drill it into the kids at TFT constantly.  Someone just has to take the time.  We all had someone to show us the way.

I do particularly enjoy it when we make the kids introduce themselves to strangers.  It's fun to push them out of their comfort zones.

 

... Amen brother, there is always hope. When I was coaching my sons baseball team around age 12, I had a kid that was talented but was never on time, lazy, talked back, started trouble with his team mates and got thrown out of a game for giving the finger to an Ump. I was fair but pretty hard on him and halfway thru the season we had picture day at 10am and he didn't show up til the game at 3 pm. I told him I was benching him because he was the only one that didn't show up for the team picture. I asked him if he had a decent excuse and what he said shocked me deeply. With watery eyes that he fought, he told me he went with this Dad to pick up his Mom that was getting out of prison. She had served 5 years of a 10 year sentence. His parents had never shown up at a practice or a game, I now knew why.

... I treated him very differently from that moment on. I did not put up with any nonsense, but did so with respect, explanations and as much positive support as I could without being disingenuous. He began to change his attitude and became more of a team player. I am not gonna say it was an After School Special and he turned into a great kid, but he was better with his attitude and did not start any trouble with team mates. I would like to think I made an impression on him, but it was only a couple of months and I had no idea what his home life was like. In reality it was much of a learning experience for me as it was for him. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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15 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Amen brother, there is always hope. When I was coaching my sons baseball team around age 12, I had a kid that was talented but was never on time, lazy, talked back, started trouble with his team mates and got thrown out of a game for giving the finger to an Ump. I was fair but pretty hard on him and halfway thru the season we had picture day at 10am and he didn't show up til the game at 3 pm. I told him I was benching him because he was the only one that didn't show up for the team picture. I asked him if he had a decent excuse and what he said shocked me deeply. With watery eyes that he fought, he told me he went with this Dad to pick up his Mom that was getting out of prison. She had served 5 years of a 10 year sentence. His parents had never shown up at a practice or a game, I now I knew why.

... I treated him very differently from that moment on. I did not put up with any nonsense, but did so with respect, explanations and as much positive support as I could without being disingenuous. He began to change his attitude and became more of a team player. I am not gonna say it was an After School Special and he turned into a great kid, but he was better with his attitude and did not start any trouble with team mates. I would like to think I made an impression on him, but it was only a couple of months and I had no idea what his home life was like. In reality it was much of a learning experience for me as out was for him. 

That's a great story, and you make an important point... you never know what's going on behind the scenes with other people. Not that we should lower our expectations, but we should modify our approach. 

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3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
2 Hybrid - Titleist 585 (17*) - Titleist 4175 ( R )
4i - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Forest Green)
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1 hour ago, HardcoreLooper said:

That's a great story, and you make an important point... you never know what's going on behind the scenes with other people. Not that we should lower our expectations, but we should modify our approach. 

So true, my story with that.  When I was a hotel GM, we had a housekeeper who continually showed up at 8:20 to 8:25 every day, her shift started at 8:00.   Her manager wanted to suspend or fire her.  I told her, first we have to talk to her and find out what's going on.    

It was very simple, she was a single mother and her daughter didn't' get on the school bus until 7:30 and the next bus she could catch came at 8:00, thus getting her there around 8:20 to 8:30.   I asked if we changed her start time to 8:30 would she be able to work an extra half hour to get her rooms cleaned. She said no problem, as her mom was always able to be there in the afternoon to watch her daughter.   So we changed her start time to 8:30.  Guess what, she was still there by 8:20 to 8:25 every day, now she was early instead of late.   And she was a much more relaxed and productive employee. 

If managers would just take the time to find out the "why" behind behavior instead of just assuming it's out of not caring, they might be surprised at the results. 

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2 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

So true, my story with that.  When I was a hotel GM, we had a housekeeper who continually showed up at 8:20 to 8:25 every day, her shift started at 8:00.   Her manager wanted to suspend or fire her.  I told her, first we have to talk to her and find out what's going on.    

It was very simple, she was a single mother and her daughter didn't' get on the school bus until 7:30 and the next bus she could catch came at 8:00, thus getting her there around 8:20 to 8:30.   I asked if we changed her start time to 8:30 would she be able to work an extra half hour to get her rooms cleaned. She said no problem, as her mom was always able to be there in the afternoon to watch her daughter.   So we changed her start time to 8:30.  Guess what, she was still there by 8:20 to 8:25 every day, now she was early instead of late.   And she was a much more relaxed and productive employee. 

If managers would just take the time to find out the "why" behind behavior instead of just assuming it's out of not caring, they might be surprised at the results. 

Maybe you could come speak to a lady in my office?!?!?  Last one in, first one out every day.  Always late, always leaving early.  Not to mention her daily hour and twenty minute lunch break! The saddest part to me is the fact that she has been here 25 years.  She feels entitled to the preferential treatment and she's right.  Otherwise, management would have done something 25 years ago!

Sometimes, it's simply about "want-to!"  She doesn't want to or she would be a better employee!

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32 minutes ago, sixcat said:

Maybe you could come speak to a lady in my office?!?!?  Last one in, first one out every day.  Always late, always leaving early.  Not to mention her daily hour and twenty minute lunch break! The saddest part to me is the fact that she has been here 25 years.  She feels entitled to the preferential treatment and she's right.  Otherwise, management would have done something 25 years ago!

Sometimes, it's simply about "want-to!"  She doesn't want to or she would be a better employee!

That's a different conversation, and one I've had to have a few times...

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What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
2 Hybrid - Titleist 585 (17*) - Titleist 4175 ( R )
4i - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Forest Green)
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Maybe you could come speak to a lady in my office?!?!?  Last one in, first one out every day.  Always late, always leaving early.  Not to mention her daily hour and twenty minute lunch break! The saddest part to me is the fact that she has been here 25 years.  She feels entitled to the preferential treatment and she's right.  Otherwise, management would have done something 25 years ago!
Sometimes, it's simply about "want-to!"  She doesn't want to or she would be a better employee!



We could crash this site if everyone were willing to share a story of a co-worker who drives them bonkers.

She sounds like a blast to work with.
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1 hour ago, sixcat said:

Maybe you could come speak to a lady in my office?!?!?  Last one in, first one out every day.  Always late, always leaving early.  Not to mention her daily hour and twenty minute lunch break! The saddest part to me is the fact that she has been here 25 years.  She feels entitled to the preferential treatment and she's right.  Otherwise, management would have done something 25 years ago!

Sometimes, it's simply about "want-to!"  She doesn't want to or she would be a better employee!

LOL...Sorry I share an office with her twin identity and nothing is done about it  And you're right, she is gets away with it because she's allowed to.   I have to remind  myself, I''m no longer the GM, Im just the sales guy now......and loving every minute of it.   

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13 hours ago, bens197 said:

She sounds like a blast to work with.

 

 

My frustrations with her spilled over into this thread yesterday afternoon.  It's a drain on our entire office because we are left to pick up the slack.  I'm not sure why it's tolerated by management but after 25 years, it's not going to change.  It actually gets worse with time.  It's just frustrating because I'm the opposite.  First one in, last one out and expected to pick up her slack.

She was having computer problems yesterday.  When the IT guy came to fix it, his "after action report" listed "self-sabotage" as the only reason for the issues.  His IT firm is an outside agency so, he doesn't know her from "Adam," nor does he know the history.  She certainly didn't fool him.

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14 hours ago, sixcat said:

Maybe you could come speak to a lady in my office?!?!?  Last one in, first one out every day.  Always late, always leaving early.  Not to mention her daily hour and twenty minute lunch break! The saddest part to me is the fact that she has been here 25 years.  She feels entitled to the preferential treatment and she's right.  Otherwise, management would have done something 25 years ago!

Sometimes, it's simply about "want-to!"  She doesn't want to or she would be a better employee!

My wife works with someone sort of like that.  Always texting on her phone, always on break, never actually doing any work.  But like I told my wife, that's on management and not on the employee.  If she gets away with it and no one says anything, and still has a job, then the message from management is, "keep doing what you are doing, because we're fine with it."

I don't lose sleep over things like that anymore.  I've also learned the hard way that busting ass and going above and beyond for a company that keeps people like you describe is a waste of time as well, because you'll never receive the recognition you deserve for trying to improve things for the company.  They either take the credit for it, or ignore your hard work.  I've done enough 16 hour days when no one else would to recognize that I was wasting my time trying to move ahead in this company.

So I just keep my head down, and do my job as best I can, and don't worry about others around me.  If management doesn't want to fix or change anything about people that I consider slackers and just barely do their jobs, then that's not my problem.

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16 minutes ago, sixcat said:

My frustrations with her spilled over into this thread yesterday afternoon.  It's a drain on our entire office because we are left to pick up the slack.  I'm not sure why it's tolerated by management but after 25 years, it's not going to change.  It actually gets worse with time.  It's just frustrating because I'm the opposite.  First one in, last one out and expected to pick up her slack.

She was having computer problems yesterday.  When the IT guy came to fix it, his "after action report" listed "self-sabotage" as the only reason for the issues.  His IT firm is an outside agency so, he doesn't know her from "Adam," nor does he know the history.  She certainly didn't fool him.

I like to use the phrase “tolerated behavior becomes the standard” at work and while I don’t know the specifics of your scenario, I can relate.  These people are vampires and suck the life out of the productive work force.  Your superiors are either afraid to confront her, too stupid to acknowledge or prefer to acquiesce in their role for fear of confrontation.  

Sorry for frustrations, these people truly are awful.   

 

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