Stock vs Premium shafts, from the same OEM

[revkev]

I will say that anytime I’ve called an OEM they have answered what ever question I’ve asked. They almost always get excited that a consumer cares enough about their product to ask.

They aren’t Satan - they care about golf - they are going to make crazy marketing claims to sell product but all of them make crazy good equipment.

Sometimes we forget that.


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[JDHolmes]

I think many are missing the point I'm making between stock and after-market shafts from the same OEM.  Being 'fit' for, or having the stock version work 'best' for is one thing, having a shaft with 99% of the same paint scheme and name, WITHOUT BEING ANYTHING NEAR THE AFTER MARKET VERSION IS ANOTHER.
 
 

Golfshaftreviews does testing on many different shafts. EI profiles, bend profiles, etc. You do have to pay $10 a year to view all the info. It's been very valuable to me when deciding which shafts I want to play and which ones I need to stay away from.

They do both made for and top of the line shafts.

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[Rickp]

I will say that anytime I’ve called an OEM they have answered what ever question I’ve asked. They almost always get excited that a consumer cares enough about their product to ask.

They aren’t Satan - they care about golf - they are going to make crazy marketing claims to sell product but all of them make crazy good equipment.

Sometimes we forget that.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[bens197]

I will say that anytime I’ve called an OEM they have answered what ever question I’ve asked. They almost always get excited that a consumer cares enough about their product to ask.

They aren’t Satan - they care about golf - they are going to make crazy marketing claims to sell product but all of them make crazy good equipment.

Sometimes we forget that.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

This is so true it hurts. Whether it’s to chat or to settle an out of warranty return or repair, they’re in the business of creating promoters.

They don’t want your business, they want to keep it!

[fixyurdivot]

On 2/3/2020 at 10:43 AM, chisag said:

... The short and very general answer is for the majority of average golfers, not only is there a difference between Made For and aftermarket shafts, most MF shafts fit them better than the aftermarket shafts. I use the Matrix Red as an example that Cobra had as stock in their driver several years ago. The Matrix Red profile was what the engineers identified as perfect for their head when hit by the majority of golfers. In testing shafts they found the AF Red's tip was a little too stiff causing a slightly lower trajectory and tended to leak a little right. They tested several prototypes and found that if they softened the flex a little and added more torque for feel and a slightly softer tip, they kept the mid launch mid spin profile but average golfers hit it much better than the stronger aftermarket Matrix Red. I would add most engineers know better players will almost always order a different shaft than stock, so in the case I just mentioned, the better player would not buy the Cobra with the after market Matrix Red anyway but install a shaft they know works for their swing. 

... Obviously not true for every single made for shaft, but the OEMs are in the business of selling drivers. Most golfers know very little, if anything at all concerning shafts, so the OEMs want the average golfer to demo a driver and hit it mid to high, straight and far. Again, most will struggle with an aftermarket shaft that has a stiffer tip and stouter over all profile.  I think the most successful driver ever proves this point. Ely Callaway knew ego's were involved with average male golfers that tended to chose too little loft and a shaft too stiff, so he did something absolutely brilliant. His Big Bertha's had higher lofts than were stamped on the club head, usually 2-3* higher and he took a Regular flex shaft and labeled it a Stiff flex. All of a sudden average golfers were hitting g their driver higher, straighter and farther and there was a waiting list of up to 6 months.  

... And to answer your specific question I play the Tensei CK Orange. As a + index with a smooth transition and a swing speed around 100, the softer overall profile of the CK Orange fits me better than the Pro Orange which is designed for more aggressive hitters/swingers and/or more club head speed. CK Orange's mid launch and low spin is much better for most golfers compared to the low launch and very low spin of the Pro Orange. 

Good input.  When I was getting fitted for the G410 driver there was a part of me that felt I would be getting less of a club if not opting for the optional shafts. The fact was that of the options tested, the Alta CB produced the best numbers and ball flight.  Having purchased both my G400 3w and 5w with the stock shaft, I don't know if another shaft would be better - but I hit these so well I really doubt it.  I don't think it's a reach to say the stock shafts fit the meat of the bell curve, and to the extent they can match that population's needs while carving out a little more profit (through volume), makes sense.  As to "watered down" optional shafts, this is the first I've heard of it.  In any case, only those of you in those extreme ends of the curve would probably notice the difference.

[dlow206]

I had a Ventus Red 5S made for that I sold and I bought a real Ventus Red 5S with Velocore shaft. The real one is much stiffer and helps take the left side out of play for me. Its a significantly better shaft that the made for (at least for my game).

[Sparkee]

Like I b golfin was saying at the start of this thread . All a guy wants to know is , is the shaft I am buying the real deal or not . Never mind getting fit for a brand new driver at a cost of over $1000 after tax , lots of golfers can’t afford to blow the budget on  a driver worth twice the price of the rest of his bag . I have never bought a brand new fitted club or clubs off a fitter . Rather I go to the used golf market where it is quite a bit more economical for some golf budgets. Yes you can get fit into used equipment. Like , does every body buy brand new cars , not really , when you think that as soon as you drive it off the lot you lost 33% of your investment. So a little brand identification is all he is asking for . Ease up boys ! That’s all I have , the only good thing is when you purchase the way I do you learn to do your research , which can be quite tedious sometimes .

[RickyBobby_PR]

9 hours ago, Sparkee said:

Like I b golfin was saying at the start of this thread . All a guy wants to know is , is the shaft I am buying the real deal or not .

Very rarely will one find a made for shaft that has the same paint scheme and markings of the aftermarket version. The first ventus shafts made for tm were an example but this year they changed it however Callaway has kept it. The real deal vs the made for us easy to distinguish because on the manufacturers website the non velocore states that and there no upcharge. Also when looking at pictures of the shaft the aftermarket version has veolocore marked on the tip section.

Lastly all one has to do is not be lazy and do some basic searching on the shaft manufacturers website and compare the pictures there with what’s posted online.

9 hours ago, Sparkee said:

Never mind getting fit for a brand new driver at a cost of over $1000 after tax , lots of golfers can’t afford to blow the budget on  a driver worth twice the price of the rest of his bag .

Nobody is making anyone buy an expensive new driver with an aftermarket shaft. Not to mention just because a shaft is aftermarket doesn’t mean it’s better for everyone or anyone. There are several members here who were fit into the non velocore version of the ventus shaft and the fitter had them hit the aftermarket version and it performed worse. 
 

There are numerous real deal no upcharge shafts that will work for the vast majority of golfers. Other than 1 or 2 PX shafts that are made for all the no upcharge Px shafts offered by club companies are the real deal.

There are a couple aftermarket shafts being offered at no upcharge like the Aldila rogue white 130 and now the tensei 1k black.

The cost of the shaft doenst determine if it’s quality or not. It’s whether the shaft and head it’s placed in are a fit for the golfer swinging it

[GolfSpy_APH]

TXG did a video on this with the Sim and Ventus lines. The one which is a made for and the other which was the velcore lines. Maybe already discussed in this thread, however they made a good point. Yes one is way more expensive then another and they look similar, however it doesn't mean that the made for version isn't going to work better for some than the velcore lines. In the end each golfer is different and for some a stock option will work just as well or maybe better than an upcharged expensive golf shaft. 

[funkyjudge]

6 hours ago, GolfSpy_APH said:

TXG did a video on this with the Sim and Ventus lines. The one which is a made for and the other which was the velcore lines. Maybe already discussed in this thread, however they made a good point. Yes one is way more expensive then another and they look similar, however it doesn't mean that the made for version isn't going to work better for some than the velcore lines. In the end each golfer is different and for some a stock option will work just as well or maybe better than an upcharged expensive golf shaft. 

I have posted exactly this many times when the subject (repeatedly) comes up.  I am both a golf club fitter/dealer, and a shaft fitter/dealer (Fujikura Charter Dealer, Mitsubishi Dealer, UST Mamiya TourSPX Dealer, KBS Certified Fitter, etc.), and I am often privy to "inside information" from these manufacturers.  There is absolutely nothing inherently "wrong" with the "made-for" or co-engineered shafts, and a significant amount of work is done by the shaft manufacturers to make sure that they are providing a good quality shaft for the club manufacturers that fits both the clubhead design parameters and the majority of "average" golfers (the wide middle of the "bell curve").

I've said it before, and I will say it again -- GET PROFESSIONALLY FIT FOR YOUR GOLF EQUIPMENT, INCLUDING THE SHAFTS THAT WILL BE INSTALLED IN THOSE CLUBS!  Many times, the "made for" shaft will work better for you than the vastly more expensive aftermarket shaft that looks similar. When it doesn't, and your budget, ego, etc. say that you just MUST have that expensive aftermarket shaft, go for it!  This being said, I get a lot of golfers who insist before ever beginning a clubfitting session that they need the "real deal" aftermarket shaft model, particularly the Ventus VeloCore or Speeder/Speeder Evolution shafts from Fujikura.  If that is what they already believe that they need, nothing that happens in the fitting session is going to convince them that the stock "made for" shaft is ever going to work well for them. In these instances, I just make sure that I am fitting them to the aftermarket shaft that works best for their swing.

Edited November 15, 2022 by funkyjudge