NPG Episode 31: How to Fix the Distance "Problem"

[revkev]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

As popular as bashing the R&A is, many of the factors that influence driving distance are beyond the control of the Ruling Bodies.  The joint report definitely indicated that course set-up has an impact, as does player fitness, as does improved clubfitting, as do continuing advances in equipment.  The last two weeks on the PGA Tour show how effective course set-up can be in limiting distance by increasing the relative value of hitting fairways.  But let's put our heads together, is there any way that course conditioning and set-up can be regulated by the USGA and R&A, for anything other than the few tournaments that they run in-house?  Please, you must be smarter than the Ruling Bodies, how would you word such a requirement?  Or maybe we should just leave it to the PGA to voluntarily change the way they set up most of their tournaments, and to voluntarily change the way they market their entertainment product to the masses.  Any predictions on seeing long rough, slow fairways, and firm fast greens at the next John Deere Classic, or the Rocket Mortgage or the Travelers?

Great point - not much chance, those tournaments don't attract as many big names and therefore they need to bombing and scoring as a draw.

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, revkev said:

So were the scores the past two weeks the product of the PGA tour using more difficult course set ups or the weather or both?

To me, PGA National is just a punishing golf course.  Lots of times, a mistake leads to a half-shot penalty, or maybe a quarter-shot.  But when the ball is in the water, strokes aren't lost in fractions, but in whole numbers, so scores get high.  Combine that with wind, and its even tougher.  Bay Hill seemed the same, with perhaps more emphasis on the gnarly rough, and even higher winds.  But in each case, the rough seemed "rougher" than we commonly see, and the greens were really firm, so accuracy became more important than it usually is.  We'll see if this is type of set-up is a rarity, or the "new normal".

[Wedgie]

Has the USGA considered having players come over the top and flip at the ball?  That's what I do and nobody complains about my distance.

[revkev]

13 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

To me, PGA National is just a punishing golf course.  Lots of times, a mistake leads to a half-shot penalty, or maybe a quarter-shot.  But when the ball is in the water, strokes aren't lost in fractions, but in whole numbers, so scores get high.  Combine that with wind, and its even tougher.  Bay Hill seemed the same, with perhaps more emphasis on the gnarly rough, and even higher winds.  But in each case, the rough seemed "rougher" than we commonly see, and the greens were really firm, so accuracy became more important than it usually is.  We'll see if this is type of set-up is a rarity, or the "new normal".

I've played both but Bayhill and PGA National but that was before Nicklaus got his hands on it - those two back nine par 3's had water on them but there was much more room between the water's edge and the green - a bit more margin for error.  Bayhill isn't as bad as it looks but it doesn't normally have that much rough (which then brought more of the water into play.)

It will be very interesting to see what happens this weekend - if you got that kind of wind under those kind of conditions at Sawgrass it would truly be a blood bath - but its supposed to be warm and dry, I'm not sure what the rough is like now and don't know how windy it will be. 

[StrokerAce]

19 minutes ago, Wedgie said:

Has the USGA considered having players come over the top and flip at the ball?  That's what I do and nobody complains about my distance.

Looks like they told Tyrrell Hatton to use an early extension but he still won so I'm not sure where we go from here....

 

 

[Wedgie]

Just now, GolfSpy Stroker said:

Looks like they told Tyrrell Hatton to use an early extension but he still won so I'm not sure where we go from here....

 

 

I'm pretty sure I do that too!

[StrokerAce]

1 minute ago, Wedgie said:

I'm pretty sure I do that too!

welcome to the team !! 

[MIGregB]

Of course, I was being sarcastic with my “how dare they” post.  And no doubt weather conditions made both courses more difficult. But it does seem to point to (at least) a potential remedy to the distance issue by having tougher course conditions for tournaments as opposed to the seemingly monumental task of rolling back equipment. There is already a bifurcation with tournament vs. recreational courses. So why add another fork in the road, at least until they find out for certain how much course set-up can improve the situation? It seems to me that if the USGA can legislate what equipment can be used in all tournaments, they can find a way to legislate course conditions in those same tournaments. I don’t have the language ready for them to insert into the rule book, but I believe it can be done (tried??).

Look, I doubt there’s a perfect one-size-fits-all solution; but changing course conditions sure seems like an expedient one.

[DaveP043]

22 minutes ago, MIgregb said:

Of course, I was being sarcastic with my “how dare they” post.  And no doubt weather conditions made both courses more difficult. But it does seem to point to (at least) a potential remedy to the distance issue by having tougher course conditions for tournaments as opposed to the seemingly monumental task of rolling back equipment. There is already a bifurcation with tournament vs. recreational courses. So why add another fork in the road, at least until they find out for certain how much course set-up can improve the situation? It seems to me that if the USGA can legislate what equipment can be used in all tournaments, they can find a way to legislate course conditions in those same tournaments. I don’t have the language ready for them to insert into the rule book, but I believe it can be done (tried??).

Look, I doubt there’s a perfect one-size-fits-all solution; but changing course conditions sure seems like an expedient one.

The way I look at it, there's no bifurcation at this time.  The Rules of Golf apply to every golfer, from the PGA Tour to the 9-hole municipal down the street.  The equipment rules, every single rule that potentially limits distance, apply to everyone.  I just don't see that regulation of course conditions at any tournament beyond those actually run by the Ruling Bodies is within the realm of the USGA (and R&A, they're involved every step of the way).  Yes, conditions are different at PGA  Tour events from those at your local muni, but those differences don't exist because of any regulation by anyone.  But this is why the next steps discussed in the USGA summary include discussion with all the stakeholders on a number of potential courses of action, including de facto bifurcation (via authorized local rule), and including potential ways of minimizing future equipment-related gains in distance.  Maybe in those discussions the PGA Tour will volunteer to try to toughen conditions more often, to increase the negative consequences of off-line shots, and maybe that will lead players to think twice about hitting driver as often.