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Billy-Bo-Jim-Bob

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I wonder if choking down on the grip working for some and not others is due to the feel of the grip? On a tapered grip if you have shorter fingers, like myself, some of that control might come from allowing a more natural grip? Compare that to when you butt trim a shaft and are now holding onto the grip where it’s the thickest diameter? Just a thought. 

Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph
 

Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X
3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts
3h: Tour Edge EXS Pro, Smoke Black 80g 6.0
4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300
Wedges: Titleist SM7
56* Wedge: Callaway Jaws w/ 12* of bounce

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7 minutes ago, zrumble said:

I wonder if choking down on the grip working for some and not others is due to the feel of the grip? On a tapered grip if you have shorter fingers, like myself, some of that control might come from allowing a more natural grip? Compare that to when you butt trim a shaft and are now holding onto the grip where it’s the thickest diameter? Just a thought. 

Depending how far down one grips the change in diameter does change and bother people. The mcc +4 is a great option to overcome that or using more wraps under the right hand

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 2/25/2020 at 8:47 AM, Smellis745 said:

This topic is one that is discussed quite often and the best advice remains the same, it's trial and error to find what works for you.  Some players will benefit from a shorter driver while others won't.  Some players will lose distance, while others find more.  I believe that each swing has a sweet spot length and that's why it's important to try things out.  I've got two drivers that I'll rotate round to round.  One is a 44.5" M3 with a Tour Green 85 TX and the other is a 45.25" M5 with a Synergy Black.  The M5 combo is a bit longer, but the M3 combo is a bit straighter.  The difference between the two is so little though, it's really a wash...for me.

 

... While it is true that every golfer is different and some do better with a shorter length and some do better with a longer length, it isn't an equal equation. There really is no stock answer but that said:

1. Even those that hit it farther with a longer shaft, the majority are not longer than 45-45.5". It is a very rare player that hits a stock 45.75-46" driver long and straight. There is a reason (other than loft) that the average golfer hits the center of their pw more often than their 5 iron. Shorter is easier to control. Add to that, quite a few golfers actually swing a shorter shaft faster, because it is not as unwieldy and/or they just have more confidence with a shorter length. On the flip side, some women or senior golfers with slow and smooth swing speeds can handle a longer length driver and might find additional yards with a longer shaft. And of course there are players like you that have no problem with longer length drivers and can reap the benefits of a longer shaft. 👍

2. But the majority will do much better with a shorter shaft. How short is the big question and as you said, every swing is different so it's important to find out. There will be a point of diminishing returns or we would all be playing 42" drivers. 43-45" is a great experimental length. As others have already stated missing the center is punitive, even by as little as 1/2" has a huge effect on distance and off by 1" on the toe, a reasonable miss for the average golfer, can lose you 20-28 yds. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 Max 10.5* ... Graphite Design AD-IZr
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :EVNROLL:  Custom EV 5.1  33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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On 4/5/2020 at 8:52 AM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Including 99.9% of all professionals. Very few play less than 460cc.

 

 

Probably true, but I don't follow golf as sports entertainment.  It's just my recreation, so I play what I enjoy playing.

I'm looking into a hickory-shafted persimmon   brassie--spoon--cleek   set from Louisville Golf.

Expensive, but they'd probably be my last set of woods.  I do go back to when woods were sold in sets, by the way.

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On 4/5/2020 at 10:24 AM, silver & black said:

I'm thinking of cutting the shaft down in my TS3. It's 45.5"... about 1" longer than I have been used to playing for the last 6 years. Before I do that, I'm going to put my other shaft in and see if it helps.  This driver is a go left machine for me right now.

I am in the same boat at 5’6” I’m choking up a good 1.5inches. Always going right though off the tee. Let me know how it works out if you do change the shaft or cut it down. Always worried how the weight will feel

:taylormade-small: Stealth 2 Plus 9deg Kai' li Red

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:taylormade-small:Stealth 2 15deg Aldilla Rogue Silver

:mizuno-small: JPX 921 Hot Metal 4-PW Nippon Modus 120s

:vokey-small: SM8 54 and 58deg Dynamic Gold Wedge Flex

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:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

Stewart Q Follow Electric Caddie

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yup!  played my G30 at 44.5 and currently the m5 is at 45.  The G30 we swapped the weight in the head to add 2 grams.  I'll evaluate the M5 at 45 inches once the driving ranges open up, but don't think it should be a problem since I was fit this time at 45 inches.  I may play around with headweight a little too, but the shaft I'm using now is less counterbalanced that before, and it already feels pretty good.

I'll also note that I don't feel like I've given up anything distance wise.  my strikes are much better and have a more consistent flight than I did before the switch.  YMMV but if you like chocking up a bit you'll probably like it at that playing length too.

Let us know what you end up doing!

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | :titelist-small: TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S

:edel-golf-1: SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | :taylormade-small: MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200

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I like my driver at 45.25. But I naturally grip down a smidge so I am probably playing it at 45 or less in actuality. I just feel more comfortable gripping down. If I played it at 45 I would still grip down and potentially get too short. 

Driver: Callaway Paradym Triple diamond 10.5 Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood ; Callaway Paradym triple diamond 15 degree, Ventus black TR 7x

Apex UW 19 degree, Ventus black TR 8x

Utility Iron: Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility, Ventus blue HB 90X

Irons: Callaway Apex MB 5-PW, KBS $ taper 130x

Wedges: Callaway Jaws Raw 50, 54, 58, KBS $ taper 130x

Putter: Wilson Staff TM22, hand torched, KBS cutter putter shaft, Super stroke Pistol GT 1.0

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Hi everyone,

Having been a professional for around 10 years and someone who has built clubs for around 20 years driver length is something that has interested me for years. Always trying to find that extra 5 or 10 meters has been of interest to me. 

Recently I have reshafted my Callaway epic flash sub zero with a Fujikura Ventus 7x at 44.5. This has seems to be the length I find I don't loose heaps of yards but pick up a tremendous amount of accuracy.

Before the reshaft it was playing at 45.75 which was great for length but not so much accuracy. The shorter length has increased the fairways I've hit by around 20% with only loosing 5 meters.

In my opinion getting the length right is really important in scheme of things for you driver.

 

Happy golfing

 

Cheers

 

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7 hours ago, Welshy said:

Recently I have reshafted my Callaway epic flash sub zero with a Fujikura Ventus 7x at 44.5. This has seems to be the length I find I don't loose heaps of yards but pick up a tremendous amount of accuracy.

Before the reshaft it was playing at 45.75 which was great for length but not so much accuracy. The shorter length has increased the fairways I've hit by around 20% with only loosing 5 meters.

In my opinion getting the length right is really important in scheme of things for you driver.

 

... Are you losing 5 yards on your longest drives that stay in the fairway or are you averaging 5 more yards? I find my longest drives come from a 45" or longer shaft, but that length also produces my shortest drives due to missing the center and like you, also less accurate. While I have never tried to put a number on it, there is no doubt I average longer drives with a 44.5" driver. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 Max 10.5* ... Graphite Design AD-IZr
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :EVNROLL:  Custom EV 5.1  33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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Curious for those choosing to give up yards for accuracy has your GIR improved as well? 

Has your handicap dropped with no other intervention?

Also the improved accuracy thru fairways hit, what was your miss before the shorter shaft? Was it just off the fairway or maybe a few yards off? Or was it way off and now you have improved dispersion but 10+ yards?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I cut my SIM Max down an inch from stock 45.75" to 44.75". It may be only a slight change but I feel like Ive lost a couple yards, but that I find the center of the face just a little more. I had mine cut down when I ordered it so Im assuming they adjusted the swing weight in the head at at time, though Ive never checked the swing weight of the club. Its not a huge difference and it might just be more of a feeling, but so many pros play slightly shorter shafts, so I figured theres probably something in it. I have enough distance that Im ok with losing a couple yards if it gets me one more fairway per round.

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Big fan of shorter driver lengths.  Once I get past 44.5", or even 44.25", my consistency (relatively speaking) drops considerably.  The first driver I could hit decently straight was 44.5" long, and D5.  It also had a shaft that weighed in excess of 100g, LOL.  

Several years ago, I discovered (in a fitting session) that my personal point of diminishing returns is something shorter than 44".  At 43.25" with steel shaft, or with 100g graphite, I was swinging consistently 3 mph faster than at 44.25" with 90g graphite.  Going lighter at the longer length did nothing.  43" also gave me that same swingspeed.  It took me quite a few years to try 43.5" with more modern sticks, but finally did.  I've seen no distance loss, and better directional consistency than I'd been seeing at 44.5".

Haven't been able to take it to the 43" level for some reason, though it may happen this season, once I look to play something other than retro golf.

For adding weight, I like to use either lead tape, or perhaps the adjustable weights in the older TM drivers (SuperDeep, R11s, etc).

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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... As you know Ed, if they are missing the center most will subconsciously slow down their swing a little to try and make better contact. So any length off the tee advantage of a longer shaft is negated by swinging it slower. Guys like you that have plenty of length will swing a shorter shafted driver faster because you have confidence that you will make good contact. There is obviously a reason many hit a 3 wood better than a driver, and it isn't loft or a smaller head. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 Max 10.5* ... Graphite Design AD-IZr
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :EVNROLL:  Custom EV 5.1  33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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7 minutes ago, chisag said:

... As you know Ed, if they are missing the center most will subconsciously slow down their swing a little to try and make better contact. So any length off the tee advantage of a longer shaft is negated by swinging it slower. Guys like you that have plenty of length will swing a shorter shafted driver faster because you have confidence that you will make good contact. There is obviously a reason many hit a 3 wood better than a driver, and it isn't loft or a smaller head. 


That's a good point, Sam.  One of the Human Factor aspects, not unlike how shaft profiles affect swings differently.

Edited by NRJyzr

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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17 hours ago, NRJyzr said:


That's a good point, Sam.  One of the Human Factor aspects, not unlike how shaft profiles affect swings differently.

This is SO true! At 43 1/2" I feel like I can just take as hard of a swing as I feel comfortable with and not lose control. 

Ping G430 Driver, 19° Hybrid, Ping Anser 23° Hybrid, Mizuno 923 Hot Metal 6-GW, Ping 54°&58° Glides, Scotty Cameron 5.5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, chisag said:

... As you know Ed, if they are missing the center most will subconsciously slow down their swing a little to try and make better contact. So any length off the tee advantage of a longer shaft is negated by swinging it slower. Guys like you that have plenty of length will swing a shorter shafted driver faster because you have confidence that you will make good contact. There is obviously a reason many hit a 3 wood better than a driver, and it isn't loft or a smaller head. 


Had to quote this again to offer a "thank you" for including me in the "plenty of length" category.  😊😉

Not sure that's so true these days, LOL.  Was quite happy hitting a tee shot this past weekend that was short of my old average.  Though, I was playing persimmons, and that average *was* ten years ago.  I'm not 45 anymore....

Aging.  Yay.

Edited by NRJyzr

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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On 4/23/2020 at 1:03 AM, chisag said:

 

... Are you losing 5 yards on your longest drives that stay in the fairway or are you averaging 5 more yards? I find my longest drives come from a 45" or longer shaft, but that length also produces my shortest drives due to missing the center and like you, also less accurate. While I have never tried to put a number on it, there is no doubt I average longer drives with a 44.5" driver. 

Generally I'm on average 5 shorter. Which is quite ok when I'm on the fairway.

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I’ve played 44.5” for a few years. I just changed to a Cobra F9 at 45” and swapped the 2g weight for an 8g to get it up to D4. I like it so far.
 

I have trouble with the 45.5-46” and my impact locations really start to spread and include more heel side misses. 

Ogio Woode 8 Hybrid Stand Bag
PXG 0811 X Gen4 @ 6* - Fujikura Motore X F3 7X
PXG 0211 @ 13.5* - Fujikura Motore X F1 8X
PXG 0311 XP Gen3 3i-PW - PX LZ 6.5
PXG 0311 Forged 54/60 - PX LZ 6.5
Scotty Cameron Special Select Newport 2

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  • 1 month later...

I can’t believe the average joe uses a stock Driver length. If anything everyone should be using 44”. I’ve almost always used the “old” standard length 45, but have experimented with 44.5. I liked it, but with how long 3woods go these days I’d just take that it I was actually hoping for a fairway seeker. 

  • TM M5 Driver 9*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (70TX)
  • TM M5 3 wood 15*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (80TX) 86g*
  • Adams Pro mini Hybrid 18*: KBS Tour Prototype Hybrid 95X 
  • TM 2019 P790 4iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • TM 2013 Tour Preferred 5-9iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 46* (bent to 45*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X ( 1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 50* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 56* (bent to 55*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2soft steps) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 60* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2 soft steps) 
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On 4/23/2020 at 7:02 PM, Welshy said:

Generally I'm on average 5 shorter. Which is quite ok when I'm on the fairway.

I’ve always used a general rule that 1” ~ 5yds. Chocking up an inch has been a tried and true method of taking off 1/2 club when in between clubs out there. 

  • TM M5 Driver 9*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (70TX)
  • TM M5 3 wood 15*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (80TX) 86g*
  • Adams Pro mini Hybrid 18*: KBS Tour Prototype Hybrid 95X 
  • TM 2019 P790 4iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • TM 2013 Tour Preferred 5-9iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 46* (bent to 45*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X ( 1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 50* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 56* (bent to 55*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2soft steps) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 60* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2 soft steps) 
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I’ve always used a general rule that 1” ~ 5yds. Chocking up an inch has been a tried and true method of taking off 1/2 club when in between clubs out there. 

That assumes you don’t hit the ball any better. Better contact results in more ball speed even with a shorter length. I cut 1.25” off my driver and hit the ball farther.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

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29 minutes ago, Golferschmitt said:

I can’t believe the average joe uses a stock Driver length. If anything everyone should be using 44”. I’ve almost always used the “old” standard length 45, but have experimented with 44.5. I liked it, but with how long 3woods go these days I’d just take that it I was actually hoping for a fairway seeker. 

I can’t believe people think there’s a one size fits all approach. TXG has posted on their Instagram stories multiple times that 45” is the length they fit most people too. 
 

Theres trade off for everything in golf and I’ve had conversations with different people in the industry that say to play the longest driver you can control. For some going shorter will produce better results because the contact is more centered and consistent and thus makes launch better and therefore distance and usually dispersion improve. For others they lose sole distance due to loss of speed from shorter playing length. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I can’t believe people think there’s a one size fits all approach. TXG has posted on their Instagram stories multiple times that 45” is the length they fit most people too. 
 

Theres trade off for everything in golf and I’ve had conversations with different people in the industry that say to play the longest driver you can control. For some going shorter will produce better results because the contact is more centered and consistent and thus makes launch better and therefore distance and usually dispersion improve. For others they lose sole distance due to loss of speed from shorter playing length. 

💯 agree. The only way to do it is to get fit and see the empirical results! I was more posting as a response go the thread which had already mentioned it’s VERY hard to get access to a fitting bay with many lengths. I had the guy that’s on the couch reading this or who is thinking of ordering a driver, or cutting one off in their garage in mind 👌🏼
 

had online had luck with trying out shafts in variable lengths? I’ve been to some very good facilities and really only have a few in 44.5 
 

 

  • TM M5 Driver 9*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (70TX)
  • TM M5 3 wood 15*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (80TX) 86g*
  • Adams Pro mini Hybrid 18*: KBS Tour Prototype Hybrid 95X 
  • TM 2019 P790 4iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • TM 2013 Tour Preferred 5-9iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 46* (bent to 45*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X ( 1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 50* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 56* (bent to 55*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2soft steps) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 60* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2 soft steps) 
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Well this makes alot more sense why my last driver went from a fairway finder to a new golf ball producer 😂 maybe time to try some lead tape on it. Shortened it to 44.5 and it was never the same.

Stay Safe!

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37 minutes ago, cnosil said:


That assumes you don’t hit the ball any better. Better contact results in more ball speed even with a shorter length. I cut 1.25” off my driver and hit the ball farther.

Very true. I think this would happen very often for the mid handicapper. I don’t think the gains would be as big for a total hack just because consistency is such a big issue already 

Also makes me wonder if more people shouldn’t go the 1 length route. Thoughts? 

  • TM M5 Driver 9*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (70TX)
  • TM M5 3 wood 15*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (80TX) 86g*
  • Adams Pro mini Hybrid 18*: KBS Tour Prototype Hybrid 95X 
  • TM 2019 P790 4iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • TM 2013 Tour Preferred 5-9iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 46* (bent to 45*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X ( 1 soft step) 
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Just now, Jmedical said:

Well this makes alot more sense why my last driver went from a fairway finder to a new golf ball producer 😂 maybe time to try some lead tape on it. Shortened it to 44.5 and it was never the same.

Yea, you must keep the swing weight (SW) in tact. It’s probably very “head light now”. the shop that did It “should” have mixed in some tungsten with the epoxy or added the tape for you. 

How long was it before? If you cut it .5” it will be off by 3 SW, but if you cut it a full inch, it will be off by 6SW 🤯

 Part of the danger with cutting and adding the weight because it messes up the flex of the shaft too. Good club makers can adjust the grip weight too, but gotta get a good OEM shaft and trim it from both sides. You can’t just cut the butt and home it works.

 

  • TM M5 Driver 9*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (70TX)
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  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 50* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (1 soft step) 
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Very true. I think this would happen very often for the mid handicapper. I don’t think the gains would be as big for a total hack just because consistency is such a big issue already 

Also makes me wonder if more people shouldn’t go the 1 length route. Thoughts? 

 

I think anything that helps improve ball contact is good. I think shorter shafts are a good idea for high handicappers as they will probably see lots of benefit.

 

One length clubs are tough to get used to. Have only hit them as part of testing; long irons are good but short irons feel really weird. I think the potential is there.

 

Yea, you must keep the swing weight (SW) in tact. It’s probably very “head light now”. the shop that did It “should” have mixed in some tungsten with the epoxy or added the tape for you. 

 

How long was it before? If you cut it .5” it will be off by 3 SW, but if you cut it a full inch, it will be off by 6SW

 Part of the danger with cutting and adding the weight because it messes up the flex of the shaft too. Good club makers can adjust the grip weight too, but gotta get a good OEM shaft and trim it from both sides. You can’t just cut the butt and home it works.

 

You are speaking with too many absolutes. I cut mine down and didn’t add any weight to the head. I was ready to switch out the weights but to me I don’t feel anything different. Some people are sensitive to that kind of change while others aren’t. I lost roughly 9 SW points when I cut mine down all from the butt end. Trimming the tip should have more effect on flex than butt end.

 

Maybe my driver could be better, but it works fine with my at home cut down.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
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3 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

I think anything that helps improve ball contact is good. I think shorter shafts are a good idea for high handicappers as they will probably see lots of benefit.

 

One length clubs are tough to get used to. Have only hit them as part of testing; long irons are good but short irons feel really weird. I think the potential is there.

 

 

 

You are speaking with too many absolutes. I cut mine down and didn’t add any weight to the head. I was ready to switch out the weights but to me I don’t feel anything different. Some people are sensitive to that kind of change while others aren’t. I lost roughly 9 SW points when I cut mine down all from the butt end. Trimming the tip should have more effect on flex than butt end.

 

Maybe my driver could be better, but it works fine with my at home cut down.

Sorry for not qualifying. Alot of this Is just my opinion, but I thought that was implied considering we’re in an online forum lol. What “absolute” did you feel like was off? 
 

If I may, swing weight is absolute. It’s a measurement, and it will go down when you reduce a clubs length (keeping all else the same including the scale you are using to measure it). 
 

It’s also absolute that you will change the dynamics (kick point) of the shaft if you only butt cut. This effect will increase the more you cut off.  
 

It’s also an absolute that the flex of the club will change of you add weight to the head after butt cutting  (this is measured through cycles per minute not the R, S,X labels on shafts) The effect on flex will also be correlated to the amount cut off and the amount of weight Added. Hence my statement that it’s a danger with cutting off too much. 
 

That being said, I 💯 agree that sensitivity to these changes (swing weight, flex, kick point, etc) is variable. For example, most cannot feel a 1 swing weight, but most CAN feel 9. There’s empirical evidence to back this up. 
 

A yet undiscussed factor of this “danger” is performance. Even if you can’t feel these effects, they are effecting the clubs performance. For example a club that is 9 SWs light will inherently be harder to control for the same player with the same swing, due to the effects of various force vectors. 
 

Very thought provoking stuff! And love chatting it out👌🏼

  • TM M5 Driver 9*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (70TX)
  • TM M5 3 wood 15*: Aldila RIP Phenom NL (80TX) 86g*
  • Adams Pro mini Hybrid 18*: KBS Tour Prototype Hybrid 95X 
  • TM 2019 P790 4iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • TM 2013 Tour Preferred 5-9iron: KBS Tour C-Taper 130X
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 46* (bent to 45*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X ( 1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 50* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (1 soft step) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 56* (bent to 55*) KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2soft steps) 
  • Titleist Vokey SM 7 60* KBS Tour C-Taper 130X (2 soft steps) 
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3 hours ago, Golferschmitt said:

Sorry for not qualifying. Alot of this Is just my opinion, but I thought that was implied cosidering we’re in an online forum lol. What “absolute” did you feel like was off? 
If I may, swing weight is absolute. It’s a measurement, and it will go down when you reduce a clubs length (keeping all else the same including the scale you are using to measure it). 
It’s also absolute that you will change the dynamics (kick point) of the shaft if you only butt cut. This effect will increase the more you cut off.  
It’s also an absolute that the flex of the club will change of you add weight to the head after butt cutting  (this is measured through cycles per minute not the R, S,X labels on shafts) The effect on flex will also be correlated to the amount cut off and the amount of weight Added. Hence my statement that it’s a danger with cutting off too much. 
That being said, I 💯 agree that sensitivity to these changes (swing weight, flex, kick point, etc) is variable. For example, most cannot feel a 1 swing weight, but most CAN feel 9. There’s empirical evidence to back this up. 
A yet undiscussed factor of this “danger” is performance. Even if you can’t feel these effects, they are effecting the clubs performance. For example a club that is 9 SWs light will inherently be harder to control for the same player with the same swing, due to the effects of various force vectors. 
Very thought provoking stuff! And love chatting it out👌🏼

I am good with it being your opinions just say it is your opinion or where you learned the basis for your statements;  your original statements has a lot of musts (absolutes)..."you must keep swing weight in tact";  "gotta get a good OEM shaft and trim if from both sides.  You can't just cut the butt"

Yes swing weight is an absolute,  yes,  you change the balance point by butt trimming only,  but recommend  you follow the OEM cutting instructions;  many don't want you to tip trim at all or unless you are moving to fairway woods.   Many new clubs have shaft inserted and butt trimmed to length with no tip trimming. 

Yes,  the flex with slightly change if you butt trim,  but generally not a significant amount.   IF you butt trim and maintain swingweight shaft plays softer;  tip trim at same swingweight plays firmer. 

I butt trimmed my driver 1 1/4", made no other alterations, and am not seeing performance issues;  I am hitting it better.    If I took my driver with the original length and compared it side by side I could probably tell the difference,  bu I don't have any issued controlling the club.  That could be the shaft I am using as I have read that people feel the shaft feels head heavy.  Club specs are different for everyone and lower swingweight may result in better performance than a heavier swing weight for a player.   Every player is different and you need to find the right combination for the player. 

 

 

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
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