Driver Length

[RickyBobby_PR 5,880]

Curious for those choosing to give up yards for accuracy has your GIR improved as well? 

Has your handicap dropped with no other intervention?

Also the improved accuracy thru fairways hit, what was your miss before the shorter shaft? Was it just off the fairway or maybe a few yards off? Or was it way off and now you have improved dispersion but 10+ yards?

[timesalmostup 6]

I cut my SIM Max down an inch from stock 45.75" to 44.75". It may be only a slight change but I feel like Ive lost a couple yards, but that I find the center of the face just a little more. I had mine cut down when I ordered it so Im assuming they adjusted the swing weight in the head at at time, though Ive never checked the swing weight of the club. Its not a huge difference and it might just be more of a feeling, but so many pros play slightly shorter shafts, so I figured theres probably something in it. I have enough distance that Im ok with losing a couple yards if it gets me one more fairway per round.

[NRJyzr 576]

Big fan of shorter driver lengths.  Once I get past 44.5", or even 44.25", my consistency (relatively speaking) drops considerably.  The first driver I could hit decently straight was 44.5" long, and D5.  It also had a shaft that weighed in excess of 100g, LOL.  

Several years ago, I discovered (in a fitting session) that my personal point of diminishing returns is something shorter than 44".  At 43.25" with steel shaft, or with 100g graphite, I was swinging consistently 3 mph faster than at 44.25" with 90g graphite.  Going lighter at the longer length did nothing.  43" also gave me that same swingspeed.  It took me quite a few years to try 43.5" with more modern sticks, but finally did.  I've seen no distance loss, and better directional consistency than I'd been seeing at 44.5".

Haven't been able to take it to the 43" level for some reason, though it may happen this season, once I look to play something other than retro golf.

For adding weight, I like to use either lead tape, or perhaps the adjustable weights in the older TM drivers (SuperDeep, R11s, etc).

[chisag 12,219]

... As you know Ed, if they are missing the center most will subconsciously slow down their swing a little to try and make better contact. So any length off the tee advantage of a longer shaft is negated by swinging it slower. Guys like you that have plenty of length will swing a shorter shafted driver faster because you have confidence that you will make good contact. There is obviously a reason many hit a 3 wood better than a driver, and it isn't loft or a smaller head. 

[NRJyzr 576]

7 minutes ago, chisag said:

... As you know Ed, if they are missing the center most will subconsciously slow down their swing a little to try and make better contact. So any length off the tee advantage of a longer shaft is negated by swinging it slower. Guys like you that have plenty of length will swing a shorter shafted driver faster because you have confidence that you will make good contact. There is obviously a reason many hit a 3 wood better than a driver, and it isn't loft or a smaller head. 

That's a good point, Sam.  One of the Human Factor aspects, not unlike how shaft profiles affect swings differently.

Edited April 22, 2020 by NRJyzr

[braincramp 231]

17 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

That's a good point, Sam.  One of the Human Factor aspects, not unlike how shaft profiles affect swings differently.

This is SO true! At 43 1/2" I feel like I can just take as hard of a swing as I feel comfortable with and not lose control. 

[NRJyzr 576]

18 hours ago, chisag said:

... As you know Ed, if they are missing the center most will subconsciously slow down their swing a little to try and make better contact. So any length off the tee advantage of a longer shaft is negated by swinging it slower. Guys like you that have plenty of length will swing a shorter shafted driver faster because you have confidence that you will make good contact. There is obviously a reason many hit a 3 wood better than a driver, and it isn't loft or a smaller head. 

Had to quote this again to offer a "thank you" for including me in the "plenty of length" category.  

Not sure that's so true these days, LOL.  Was quite happy hitting a tee shot this past weekend that was short of my old average.  Though, I was playing persimmons, and that average *was* ten years ago.  I'm not 45 anymore....

Aging.  Yay.

Edited April 23, 2020 by NRJyzr

[Welshy 4]

On 4/23/2020 at 1:03 AM, chisag said:

 

... Are you losing 5 yards on your longest drives that stay in the fairway or are you averaging 5 more yards? I find my longest drives come from a 45" or longer shaft, but that length also produces my shortest drives due to missing the center and like you, also less accurate. While I have never tried to put a number on it, there is no doubt I average longer drives with a 44.5" driver. 

Generally I'm on average 5 shorter. Which is quite ok when I'm on the fairway.

[crw 95]

I’ve played 44.5” for a few years. I just changed to a Cobra F9 at 45” and swapped the 2g weight for an 8g to get it up to D4. I like it so far.
 

I have trouble with the 45.5-46” and my impact locations really start to spread and include more heel side misses. 

[Golferschmitt 13]

I can’t believe the average joe uses a stock Driver length. If anything everyone should be using 44”. I’ve almost always used the “old” standard length 45, but have experimented with 44.5. I liked it, but with how long 3woods go these days I’d just take that it I was actually hoping for a fairway seeker. 

[Golferschmitt 13]

On 4/23/2020 at 7:02 PM, Welshy said:

Generally I'm on average 5 shorter. Which is quite ok when I'm on the fairway.

I’ve always used a general rule that 1” ~ 5yds. Chocking up an inch has been a tried and true method of taking off 1/2 club when in between clubs out there. 

[cnosil 16,872]

I’ve always used a general rule that 1” ~ 5yds. Chocking up an inch has been a tried and true method of taking off 1/2 club when in between clubs out there. 

That assumes you don’t hit the ball any better. Better contact results in more ball speed even with a shorter length. I cut 1.25” off my driver and hit the ball farther.

[RickyBobby_PR 5,880]

29 minutes ago, Golferschmitt said:

I can’t believe the average joe uses a stock Driver length. If anything everyone should be using 44”. I’ve almost always used the “old” standard length 45, but have experimented with 44.5. I liked it, but with how long 3woods go these days I’d just take that it I was actually hoping for a fairway seeker. 

I can’t believe people think there’s a one size fits all approach. TXG has posted on their Instagram stories multiple times that 45” is the length they fit most people too. 
 

Theres trade off for everything in golf and I’ve had conversations with different people in the industry that say to play the longest driver you can control. For some going shorter will produce better results because the contact is more centered and consistent and thus makes launch better and therefore distance and usually dispersion improve. For others they lose sole distance due to loss of speed from shorter playing length. 

[Golferschmitt 13]

24 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I can’t believe people think there’s a one size fits all approach. TXG has posted on their Instagram stories multiple times that 45” is the length they fit most people too. 
 

Theres trade off for everything in golf and I’ve had conversations with different people in the industry that say to play the longest driver you can control. For some going shorter will produce better results because the contact is more centered and consistent and thus makes launch better and therefore distance and usually dispersion improve. For others they lose sole distance due to loss of speed from shorter playing length. 

agree. The only way to do it is to get fit and see the empirical results! I was more posting as a response go the thread which had already mentioned it’s VERY hard to get access to a fitting bay with many lengths. I had the guy that’s on the couch reading this or who is thinking of ordering a driver, or cutting one off in their garage in mind . 
 

had online had luck with trying out shafts in variable lengths? I’ve been to some very good facilities and really only have a few in 44.5 
 

 

[Jmedical 4]

Well this makes alot more sense why my last driver went from a fairway finder to a new golf ball producer maybe time to try some lead tape on it. Shortened it to 44.5 and it was never the same.

[Golferschmitt 13]

37 minutes ago, cnosil said:

That assumes you don’t hit the ball any better. Better contact results in more ball speed even with a shorter length. I cut 1.25” off my driver and hit the ball farther.

Very true. I think this would happen very often for the mid handicapper. I don’t think the gains would be as big for a total hack just because consistency is such a big issue already 

Also makes me wonder if more people shouldn’t go the 1 length route. Thoughts? 

[Golferschmitt 13]

Just now, Jmedical said:

Well this makes alot more sense why my last driver went from a fairway finder to a new golf ball producer maybe time to try some lead tape on it. Shortened it to 44.5 and it was never the same.

Yea, you must keep the swing weight (SW) in tact. It’s probably very “head light now”. the shop that did It “should” have mixed in some tungsten with the epoxy or added the tape for you. 

How long was it before? If you cut it .5” it will be off by 3 SW, but if you cut it a full inch, it will be off by 6SW

 Part of the danger with cutting and adding the weight because it messes up the flex of the shaft too. Good club makers can adjust the grip weight too, but gotta get a good OEM shaft and trim it from both sides. You can’t just cut the butt and home it works.

 

[cnosil 16,872]

Very true. I think this would happen very often for the mid handicapper. I don’t think the gains would be as big for a total hack just because consistency is such a big issue already 

Also makes me wonder if more people shouldn’t go the 1 length route. Thoughts? 

 

I think anything that helps improve ball contact is good. I think shorter shafts are a good idea for high handicappers as they will probably see lots of benefit.

 

One length clubs are tough to get used to. Have only hit them as part of testing; long irons are good but short irons feel really weird. I think the potential is there.

 

Yea, you must keep the swing weight (SW) in tact. It’s probably very “head light now”. the shop that did It “should” have mixed in some tungsten with the epoxy or added the tape for you. 

 

How long was it before? If you cut it .5” it will be off by 3 SW, but if you cut it a full inch, it will be off by 6SW

 Part of the danger with cutting and adding the weight because it messes up the flex of the shaft too. Good club makers can adjust the grip weight too, but gotta get a good OEM shaft and trim it from both sides. You can’t just cut the butt and home it works.

 

You are speaking with too many absolutes. I cut mine down and didn’t add any weight to the head. I was ready to switch out the weights but to me I don’t feel anything different. Some people are sensitive to that kind of change while others aren’t. I lost roughly 9 SW points when I cut mine down all from the butt end. Trimming the tip should have more effect on flex than butt end.

 

Maybe my driver could be better, but it works fine with my at home cut down.

[Golferschmitt 13]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

 

I think anything that helps improve ball contact is good. I think shorter shafts are a good idea for high handicappers as they will probably see lots of benefit.

 

One length clubs are tough to get used to. Have only hit them as part of testing; long irons are good but short irons feel really weird. I think the potential is there.

 

 

 

You are speaking with too many absolutes. I cut mine down and didn’t add any weight to the head. I was ready to switch out the weights but to me I don’t feel anything different. Some people are sensitive to that kind of change while others aren’t. I lost roughly 9 SW points when I cut mine down all from the butt end. Trimming the tip should have more effect on flex than butt end.

 

Maybe my driver could be better, but it works fine with my at home cut down.

Sorry for not qualifying. Alot of this Is just my opinion, but I thought that was implied considering we’re in an online forum lol. What “absolute” did you feel like was off? 
 

If I may, swing weight is absolute. It’s a measurement, and it will go down when you reduce a clubs length (keeping all else the same including the scale you are using to measure it). 
 

It’s also absolute that you will change the dynamics (kick point) of the shaft if you only butt cut. This effect will increase the more you cut off.  
 

It’s also an absolute that the flex of the club will change of you add weight to the head after butt cutting  (this is measured through cycles per minute not the R, S,X labels on shafts) The effect on flex will also be correlated to the amount cut off and the amount of weight Added. Hence my statement that it’s a danger with cutting off too much. 
 

That being said, I  agree that sensitivity to these changes (swing weight, flex, kick point, etc) is variable. For example, most cannot feel a 1 swing weight, but most CAN feel 9. There’s empirical evidence to back this up. 
 

A yet undiscussed factor of this “danger” is performance. Even if you can’t feel these effects, they are effecting the clubs performance. For example a club that is 9 SWs light will inherently be harder to control for the same player with the same swing, due to the effects of various force vectors. 
 

Very thought provoking stuff! And love chatting it out

[cnosil 16,872]

3 hours ago, Golferschmitt said:

Sorry for not qualifying. Alot of this Is just my opinion, but I thought that was implied cosidering we’re in an online forum lol. What “absolute” did you feel like was off? 
If I may, swing weight is absolute. It’s a measurement, and it will go down when you reduce a clubs length (keeping all else the same including the scale you are using to measure it). 
It’s also absolute that you will change the dynamics (kick point) of the shaft if you only butt cut. This effect will increase the more you cut off.  
It’s also an absolute that the flex of the club will change of you add weight to the head after butt cutting  (this is measured through cycles per minute not the R, S,X labels on shafts) The effect on flex will also be correlated to the amount cut off and the amount of weight Added. Hence my statement that it’s a danger with cutting off too much. 
That being said, I  agree that sensitivity to these changes (swing weight, flex, kick point, etc) is variable. For example, most cannot feel a 1 swing weight, but most CAN feel 9. There’s empirical evidence to back this up. 
A yet undiscussed factor of this “danger” is performance. Even if you can’t feel these effects, they are effecting the clubs performance. For example a club that is 9 SWs light will inherently be harder to control for the same player with the same swing, due to the effects of various force vectors. 
Very thought provoking stuff! And love chatting it out

I am good with it being your opinions just say it is your opinion or where you learned the basis for your statements;  your original statements has a lot of musts (absolutes)..."you must keep swing weight in tact";  "gotta get a good OEM shaft and trim if from both sides.  You can't just cut the butt"

Yes swing weight is an absolute,  yes,  you change the balance point by butt trimming only,  but recommend  you follow the OEM cutting instructions;  many don't want you to tip trim at all or unless you are moving to fairway woods.   Many new clubs have shaft inserted and butt trimmed to length with no tip trimming. 

Yes,  the flex with slightly change if you butt trim,  but generally not a significant amount.   IF you butt trim and maintain swingweight shaft plays softer;  tip trim at same swingweight plays firmer. 

I butt trimmed my driver 1 1/4", made no other alterations, and am not seeing performance issues;  I am hitting it better.    If I took my driver with the original length and compared it side by side I could probably tell the difference,  bu I don't have any issued controlling the club.  That could be the shaft I am using as I have read that people feel the shaft feels head heavy.  Club specs are different for everyone and lower swingweight may result in better performance than a heavier swing weight for a player.   Every player is different and you need to find the right combination for the player.