Justin Rose ditching Honma already?

[null]

Taylormade irons, TaylorMade metalwoods, a few Titleist, Wilson and TaylorMade wedges 

https://www.golf.com/gear/pros-bags/2020/03/05/justin-rose-to-play-bay-hill-without-honma-clubs-in-the-bag/

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

While I doubt he switched bags from yesterday’s practice round to today’s tourney round the article mentions today will be the day to know for sure and that they haven’t hear from the reps yet.

Mark King left several months back so he no longer has that connection. He did sign a mukti year deal but maybe there was an opening to get out based on either clubs not working or Mark being around.

another possibility is he has new irons that aren’t ready yet with Usga. He’s bounced between honma and Tm at the top of the bag.

[null]

3 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

While I doubt he switched bags from yesterday’s practice round to today’s tourney round the article mentions today will be the day to know for sure and that they haven’t hear from the reps yet.

Mark King left several months back so he no longer has that connection. He did sign a mukti year deal but maybe there was an opening to get out based on either clubs not working or Mark being around.

another possibility is he has new irons that aren’t ready yet with Usga. He’s bounced between honma and Tm at the top of the bag.

Yeah, definitely a few things could be at play.  So rare to see a guy like Rose change equipment so drastically with only a month before The Masters

Definitely think Mark King leaving plays a major role in this

[null]

 Confirmed that Justin Rose is on the course today with the P730s in the bag. Wow

[RickyBobby_PR]

55 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Yeah, definitely a few things could be at play.  So rare to see a guy like Rose change equipment so drastically with only a month before The Masters

Definitely think Mark King leaving plays a major role in this

 

51 minutes ago, jlukes said:

 Confirmed that Justin Rose is on the course today with the P730s in the bag. Wow

It’s crazy considering he did an interview about honma a few weeks back with golf.com. Hard to imagine something changed in that timeframe but one never knows. Looking forward to see what information Wall gets on it

[DiscipleofPenick]

This is what changed...

Take Dead Aim

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https://twitter.com/jonathanrwall/status/1235587184444485639?s=19

[GolfSpy Barbajo]

Spoke with Honma Marketing VP Brad Holder this morning - he says they will have no comment until Monday, out of respect for Arnie's tournament, Rose and Honma itself.  As of right now, they won't be doing any interviews, but there will be a statement. 

I"m guessing there's a divorce coming...

[dhartmann34]

Gotta play with what you're comfortable with. It'll be interesting to see if this was a performance or $$$ thing.

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[revkev]

A month before the Masters?  This is performance, not money.  For a player like Rose the Masters is worth far more than money.  For that matter the Masters is worth far more money than any endorsement deal at this stage of his career.

[Mr. 82]

13 minutes ago, revkev said:

A month before the Masters?  This is performance, not money.  For a player like Rose the Masters is worth far more than money.  For that matter the Masters is worth far more money than any endorsement deal at this stage of his career.

This is what I would think is going on.  Endorsement contracts can be voided if they have clauses in them regarding how a player performs.  Notice that Justin Rose has gone MIA since playing Honma.  He was ranked #1 in the world this time last year, and has since nose dived to #13.  Doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2+2 together on that colossal fail of a club endorsement.

Side note - I read Payne Stewart's biography by his widow, and she mentioned several times how Payne's game suffered when he switched to a brand of golf clubs that he just couldn't hit very well.  He had like a 2 year contract with them, and his game dropped off the map during that time.  That was a different era when an endorsement contract was probably worth a lot more than Payne was making on the course.  But now there is so much money in purses that a player would be foolish to get stuck playing clubs that don't work for them.  That's why I think we've seen a dramatic shift in players playing mixed bags with no endorsement agreement (Brooks Koepka comes to mind).  That gives the player the freedom to play whatever they want, without the chains that come with a club contract.

[RickyBobby_PR]

15 minutes ago, revkev said:

A month before the Masters?  This is performance, not money.  For a player like Rose the Masters is worth far more than money.  For that matter the Masters is worth far more money than any endorsement deal at this stage of his career.

I agree it’s not about money and if one is going to dump their current clubs going to want you used before the previous switch is about performance. 
 

He was involved in the design process with Honma. The statement on Monday will probably be somewhat PC on the split and my guess it has to do with Mark King not being there and maybe some friction over how things are done. 
 

His interview with golf.com was all about honma equipment and his role in the design process and such.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

A month before the Masters?  This is performance, not money.  For a player like Rose the Masters is worth far more than money.  For that matter the Masters is worth far more money than any endorsement deal at this stage of his career.

I agree Rev that this isn’t money based however I see it more a personal than performance issue. I just can’t believe Honma could make Homa set of blades and wedges that perform the same as the Taylormades. The fact that they aren’t willing to comment surely means a split is happening though.


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[sixcat]

Bob Parsons losing “troops” and now this? Expensive isn’t always better! Shout-out to The Shotgun Start for calling equipment mutiny more than a week ago.


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[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, sixcat said:

Bob Parsons losing “troops” and now this? Expensive isn’t always better! Shout-out to The Shotgun Start for calling equipment mutiny more than a week ago.


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Bob parsons has lost and gained pros since he signed his first one and some probably bigger names than Reavie and Billy Ho.

Its part of doing business and pxg isn’t selling clubs based on who is on staff. 
 

Equipment mutiny if there is one started when Nike left the business and several of their guys are still without deals or rode out a year or two with no deal. Not to mention that ping has changed their business model on tour bags recently it’s not really a mutiny. 

[sixcat]

Bob parsons has lost and gained pros since he signed his first one and some probably bigger names than Reavie and Billy Ho.
Its part of doing business and pxg isn’t selling clubs based on who is on staff. 
 
Equipment mutiny if there is one started when Nike left the business and several of their guys are still without deals or rode out a year or two with no deal. Not to mention that ping has changed their business model on tour bags recently it’s not really a mutiny. 

Having players come and go is part and parcel with every equipment manufacturer. The “mutiny” is in the fact that it rarely happens mid-contract. Which is why it is so newsworthy with Billy Horschel, Chez Reavie and Justin Rose!


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[sixcat]

Speaking of sponsorship deals, Scott Piercy has lost Titleist, J Lindeberg, MGM and Segra since his recent social media stupidity. Perfect time for Reynolds Wrap to jump on board since Piercy’s hat is now sans logo!


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[sixcat]

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[RickyBobby_PR]

59 minutes ago, sixcat said:

 

Having players come and go is part and parcel with every equipment manufacturer. The “mutiny” is in the fact that it rarely happens mid-contract. Which is why it is so newsworthy with Billy Horschel, Chez Reavie and Justin Rose!


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We don’t know the contract language in any of their deals and we may or may not find out do there was any for Rose. Horschel has been with pxg for 5 years give or take and could easily have been at the end or near end of his deal. 

It’s not exactly new territory. Reed left Nike in 2012 or 13 during his contact and signed immediacy with Callaway iirc...maybe a little time after Nike but it wasn’t long. 

[chisag]

6 hours ago, jlukes said:

 Confirmed that Justin Rose is on the course today with the P730s in the bag. Wow

 

... These guys are unreal. I remember Tiger dropping 4 feet further back at Augusta because he didn't think he could get it closer, he knew he could get it closer. I have had yardage I am more comfortable hitting like 105 instead of 107 because I know 105 is my max stock SW yardage. Of course there is no guarantee I will hit it 105 because I can easily hit it 102 or 107 instead of 105 taking what seems like the exact same swing. Yet for the really elite ball strikers on tour, 1 yard either way is doable. I saw Annika do an exhibition and when asked how far she hit her wedge to a green she was hitting to for several shots she replied "1 went 128 and 2 went 126 but the rest went 127". 

... I can't imagine getting new irons and not having confidence in that 1 yard. The difference between a scratch player and a Tour Pro is monumental of course. But the difference between a scratch player and an elite ball striker tour is really a completely different game. Evidently Rose does not have the same confidence in his Honma's as he does in his 730's. 

[Shankster]

Doesn’t surprise me.

Him and Sergio were with Taylormade for as long as I can remember. Both switched, both declined.

A lot of it is probably the clubs, but I imagine the Tour truck staff, and the availability of making a one off club for them has a lot to do with it.

[sixcat]

We don’t know the contract language in any of their deals and we may or may not find out do there was any for Rose. Horschel has been with pxg for 5 years give or take and could easily have been at the end or near end of his deal.  It’s not exactly new territory. Reed left Nike in 2012 or 13 during his contact and signed immediacy with Callaway iirc...maybe a little time after Nike but it wasn’t long. 

 

Except, we do know Horschel and Reavie walked away mid-contract because PXG fired their lead designer. It’s been widely reported.

 

Given Rose signed a multi year contract last year with Honma to play a minimum of 10 clubs, it seems evident a split has happened prior to the end of that contract.

 

Leaving at the end of a contract for another equipment manufacturer isn’t new ground. Leaving well ahead of a contract expiring is absolutely new ground and very newsworthy!

 

https://www.golf.com/gear/2020/03/04/pxg-loses-billy-horschel-chex-reavie-after-staff-shakeup/

 

 

 

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[FrogginBullfish]

Horschel and Reavie both left because PXG parted ways with the director of tour player relations, Matt Rollins. Rollins was instrumental in bringing both into PXG's tour staff so they left for the professional relationship. Had nothing to do with the clubs.

These guys are good enough to play well with anything, and the equipment today is all so good that the professional relationships with OEMs are often more important to the player than anything else.

We don’t know the contract language in any of their deals and we may or may not find out do there was any for Rose. Horschel has been with pxg for 5 years give or take and could easily have been at the end or near end of his deal. 
It’s not exactly new territory. Reed left Nike in 2012 or 13 during his contact and signed immediacy with Callaway iirc...maybe a little time after Nike but it wasn’t long. 

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[PMookie]

I had a conversation with the Honma rep on this when I did my fitting over a week ago. Rose, per the Tour rep, switched the driver last tourney because he only missed one fairway with the SIM in a practice round, then he proceeded to miss the majority of fairways with it in-play.
Let’s not forget that Rose either won his first tournament after the switch, or within just a couple weeks. There is more going on with Justin Rose and his personal life than what’s in public view.
Maybe going back to a “trusted” brand will help the mental side, but keep in-mind, with Tour Pros, when things go South, they blame two things right off the bat: the caddie, and the equipment.


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[Rickp]

Curious to see how J Rose plays this week/weekend with the TM setup.


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[sixcat]

I had a conversation with the Honma rep on this when I did my fitting over a week ago. Rose, per the Tour rep, switched the driver last tourney because he only missed one fairway with the SIM in a practice round, then he proceeded to miss the majority of fairways with it in-play.
Let’s not forget that Rose either won his first tournament after the switch, or within just a couple weeks. There is more going on with Justin Rose and his personal life than what’s in public view.
Maybe going back to a “trusted” brand will help the mental side, but keep in-mind, with Tour Pros, when things go South, they blame two things right off the bat: the caddie, and the equipment.


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I’m not suggesting Rose is leaving because of superior or inferior equipment. But he is definitely leaving prior to the end of the Honma deal he signed at the beginning of last season.


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[jayjay0808]

I have tested the Honma TW747 driver and the Rose Protos... And quality is a non issue. My only wish was that Honma offered more stock shafts in the TW747 or else it would have stayed in the bag.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Horschel and Reavie both left because PXG parted ways with the director of tour player relations, Matt Rollins. Rollins was instrumental in bringing both into PXG's tour staff so they left for the professional relationship. Had nothing to do with the clubs.

These guys are good enough to play well with anything, and the equipment today is all so good that the professional relationships with OEMs are often more important to the player than anything else.

 

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My not disputing that’s why they left. Was saying them bolting in their middle of their contracts or being let go isn’t new and that we don’t know the language in their contracts. Depending on the legal aspects they can’t just walk away from a binding deal. They either had to give something up and/or when they voiced their displeasure they were released. 
 

also stating they aren’t the first ones to do it mid deal.

1 hour ago, sixcat said:

I’m not suggesting Rose is leaving because of superior or inferior equipment. But he is definitely leaving prior to the end of the Honma deal he signed at the beginning of last season.


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Wasn’t saying you were and we agree he’s leaving mid deal. We just don’t know and may not know if there was any language that allows it or the two sides came to some sort of agreement based on differences 

[FrogginBullfish]

Doesn't seem like we'll be getting any clarity to this situation any time soon.

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[PMookie]

Doesn't seem like we'll be getting any clarity to this situation any time soon.


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I was looking for comments yesterday with them having said “Monday”.


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