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2020 drivers not adding much speed


did you see that?

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It’s person dependent. I’ve read plenty of reviews that golfers stayed they gained clubhead speed and/or ball speed with sim/sim max and mavrik.

@Quigleyd I know has posted some thoughts around the forum about his experience with the sim and speed gains

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I watched a lot of the you tube experts reviews and seen that they were basically getting the same results. But I have seen videos when they actually try different setups and shafts and basically get fit first and the results were amazing. I tend to grain of salt these videos as I’m not sure they are testing In the optimal set ups.


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DRIVER -  Ping G425 SFT Driver Tensei AV 55 Orange Reg Flex 

Woods -  Ping G425 7 wood  Tensei AV 65 Orange Reg Flex 

Irons - Cobra Rad Speed 1 Length UST Recoil 780 Smacwrap Graphite Reg Flex 

WEDGES-  Callaway jaws 52/56/60

PUTTER-  Taylormade FCG spider putter 34" 

BALL-  Pro V1x or Tp5X  -- trying to figure this one out.

Footjoy Tour S golf shoe 

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5 minutes ago, Jbmullin said:

I watched a lot of the you tube experts reviews and seen that they were basically getting the same results. But I have seen videos when they actually try different setups and shafts and basically get fit first and the results were amazing. I tend to grain of salt these videos as I’m not sure they are testing In the optimal set ups.


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Check out txg and you can see how well they perform when optimized in comparison to previous release 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just had a watch. Really like TXG always great content. Thanks


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DRIVER -  Ping G425 SFT Driver Tensei AV 55 Orange Reg Flex 

Woods -  Ping G425 7 wood  Tensei AV 65 Orange Reg Flex 

Irons - Cobra Rad Speed 1 Length UST Recoil 780 Smacwrap Graphite Reg Flex 

WEDGES-  Callaway jaws 52/56/60

PUTTER-  Taylormade FCG spider putter 34" 

BALL-  Pro V1x or Tp5X  -- trying to figure this one out.

Footjoy Tour S golf shoe 

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I don't buy the new stuff anymore due to the ridiculous prices.  I wait a couple years and buy a "new" two year old driver that works as well as the latest.  I usually change to a shaft I like also and a lot of times I'll just take the shaft from my old driver. 

What's In the Bag

Callaway Rogue ST Max 10.5° driver w/stiff Xcaliber Avalon 5 shaft
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-wood w/stiff Xcaliber Mystic 5 shaft
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-hybrid w/stiff Xcaliber RT shafts shaft
Malby KE4 Max irons with reg Xcaliber RT shafts
Callaway Jaws full toe 60° wedge with Project X Catalyst 80 wedge graphite shaft
Odyssey White Hot OG #7 CH stroke lab putter
Callaway Org 14 bag

I'm not over the hill.  I'm on the back nine.
 

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I think a lot depends on the individual. 

For me I am looking at this year's line up and might grab one after a fit. I didn't love the lineup from last season for a few reasons. They worked well enough but nothing out did what I already had so now we will go back to then drawing board and see if anything can beat my current driver (g400). So far I have an idea of what I want to like however would be open to whatever works best.

⛳🛄 as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB
Driver:  :callaway-small: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft

Irons:   :titleist-small: T Series - T200 5 Iron
                                          T150 6-9 Iron
                                          T100 PW/GW

Wedge:  Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree 

Putter:  Screenshot 2023-06-02 13.10.30.png Mezz Max!

Balls:     Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange)

 

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If you want to optimize you should get fit for driver every three years.  I'd say there's nothing wrong with doing that fitting right at the end of a product cycle to take advantage of reduced prices.  I'm certain this year's group of drivers will be good as were last year's and the year before's - it's just a question of where you might be at with your own equipment to determine whether or not you want to bite.

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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  • StrokerAce changed the title to 2020 drivers not adding much speed
IF you want more ball speed, don't look at drivers. They're maxed out. Work on more swing speed!
BT

Not necessarily true. Multiple variables to consider. Does the player bit the center, does your mishit fall in a hot zone for the driver, are you optimizing launch conditions? Increasing swing speed does lead to more distance, as long as you are still hitting the center of the face.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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27 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

IF you want more ball speed, don't look at drivers. They're maxed out. Work on more swing speed!

BT

If this were true, then TrackMan wouldn't report different ball speeds when striking different parts of the face. This is a blanket statement that has gotten stale and I wish it would go away. It simply isn't accurate. Like @cnosil said, there are many variables at play.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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IF you want more ball speed, don't look at drivers. They're maxed out. Work on more swing speed!

BT

Hmm. I picked-up 3mph more ball speed with the new Honma vs my Epic Flash SZ. Both were professionally fitted with the use of aftermarket shafts for max optimization.

 

Add to this that ball speed consistency across the ENTIRE face is now the goal, which already has been shown in TXG videos this year, shows that drivers are truly not maxed out.

 

 

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Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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... Unless you are dealing with a break thru from an OEM, last years drivers are always a great deal. Break thru's like Jailbreak from Callaway that had an increase in performance on center hits for some are well worth the money imo. I gained close to 10 yards with Jailbreak technology. Then take a club like the Speed Zone that is really a tweaking of the F9 and my guess is most will find very little difference in distance or performance, if any at all. Although I have heard a few say they found the SZ more forgiving compared to their F9. Of course going from an F7 to a SZ could be well worth it because you can get the shaft you need based on a fitting, sometimes not always possible with last years model.

... The other change that might be worth upgrading, is a more forgiving model or a lower spin model. I love my F9 but would have liked a little more forgiveness when swinging poorly. The Xtreme may do exactly that so I made the change. But in case the Xtreme does not work better for me because of let's say:  too much spin, too high a launch or any other reason, I will have my F9 with me and can go back to it. That is what happened with my F6 after playing a Fly Z. After a few months the performance was just about identical but I preferred the sound and feel of the Fly Z so it went back in my bag. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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I was thinking sort of like chisag was mentioning... 

Going further I don't think/believe there have been any truly game changing - break through - earth shattering driver/technology hit the market. (recently that is) If there had I'd have seen it on the course and witnessed its performance with my own eyes. Hell, I'd own one! But there isn't and hasn't been. That day might come but I haven't seen it. Yet. Personally, I don't buy much equipment. Sure, nothing for people like us beats a new driver or set of irons. I could buy new equipment all the time if I wanted. But what's the point? I get no return. My 5-yo irons are great and I know them well. My driver is 1 year old after retiring a 5 year old SLDR. (IMO the SLDR is still slightly more accurate than the Exotics 🤔) Initially I thought I gained a few yards. Not so sure now.

All of the golf mfg's are searching - desperate for a "breakthrough". Something that shatters everything else out there. But in reality all they can do is reshape the same ole box. The one they live in.

Therefore... I don't see the benefit of buying the latest and greatest year over year. Especially a Driver. Irons too perhaps. They've been selling more distance forever. And there have been gains. But... shouldn't all of us be driving the ball 400+ yards by now after adding up all the gains they've claimed/sold us? Wasn't one of them selling an additional 12 yards recently? LOL

 

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/16/2020 at 12:49 PM, cnosil said:


Not necessarily true. Multiple variables to consider. Does the player bit the center, does your mishit fall in a hot zone for the driver, are you optimizing launch conditions? Increasing swing speed does lead to more distance, as long as you are still hitting the center of the face.

I will defer. Yes, if you are all around the clubface, current drivers DO offer a bit more MOI benefit that some older drivers. I guess I also tend to think posters here have, at least SOME idea of what their ideal specs are. Swing weight, total weight shaft profile, etc. Perhaps not, but comparing clubheads using different specs is not really comparing clubheads. It's comparing clubs which may or may not be right for you.

BT

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On 3/16/2020 at 6:17 PM, PlaidJacket said:

I was thinking sort of like chisag was mentioning... 

Going further I don't think/believe there have been any truly game changing - break through - earth shattering driver/technology hit the market. (recently that is) If there had I'd have seen it on the course and witnessed its performance with my own eyes. Hell, I'd own one! But there isn't and hasn't been. That day might come but I haven't seen it. Yet. Personally, I don't buy much equipment. Sure, nothing for people like us beats a new driver or set of irons. I could buy new equipment all the time if I wanted. But what's the point? I get no return. My 5-yo irons are great and I know them well. My driver is 1 year old after retiring a 5 year old SLDR. (IMO the SLDR is still slightly more accurate than the Exotics 🤔) Initially I thought I gained a few yards. Not so sure now.

All of the golf mfg's are searching - desperate for a "breakthrough". Something that shatters everything else out there. But in reality all they can do is reshape the same ole box. The one they live in.

Therefore... I don't see the benefit of buying the latest and greatest year over year. Especially a Driver. Irons too perhaps. They've been selling more distance forever. And there have been gains. But... shouldn't all of us be driving the ball 400+ yards by now after adding up all the gains they've claimed/sold us? Wasn't one of them selling an additional 12 yards recently? LOL

 

Do you consider jailbreak to be game changing? What about twistface? 

20 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

I will defer. Yes, if you are all around the clubface, current drivers DO offer a bit more MOI benefit that some older drivers. I guess I also tend to think posters here have, at least SOME idea of what their ideal specs are. Swing weight, total weight shaft profile, etc. Perhaps not, but comparing clubheads using different specs is not really comparing clubheads. It's comparing clubs which may or may not be right for you.

BT

Having been on forums for the better part of 7 years there are plenty of members that don’t know their specs, many have never been fitted and the knowledge level varies from very little on equipment, the swing, etc to fitters, teachers and enthusiasts with tons of knowledge including on wrx where the perception is everyone is scratch.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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... I how said this many time when talking about irons but it holds true for drivers as well. Play the most forgiving driver you can effectively play. This means even more variables for drivers than it does for irons so it isn't as easy as choosing the Cobra Xtreme that is tops in forgiveness according to the MGS testing. The trajectory has to be optimized for your spin and ball speed. So if the Xtreme is more forgiving and you hit your target more using it than you do a SIM but it spins too much with a trajectory that is too high you can lose a ton of distance and then the trade off of more fairways would loose to needing one or 2 more clubs to reach the green. Of course the opposite holds true and the Mavrik SZ may launch lower with less spin but without enough club head speed can actually lose distance off the tee with less carry while missing more fairways.

... It just isn't an easy decision based on numbers from a test. Considering the above excellent video from TXG, the Cobra KING LTD was a technical marvel and you would think everyone would have played it. But almost all the engineers at that time played the Fly Z with the heavier than stock 18gm weight in the back! One ex D1 college golfer used the LTD but all the others used the Fly Z and may of them were very good players. The why was easy, it was by far the most accurate driver any of them had ever played. To a man they almost all hit the LTD longer, but just not as straight or as consistent. In the end that means on average they hit the Fly Z longer than the LTD, even though their longest drives came from the LTD. 

... And of course sound/feel and looks can be huge for a lot of players. While there are a few lucky golfers that don't care what their driver looks, sounds or feel like if it gives them the best performance, most have a preference. Maintaining confidence in a driver you just don't like for any of those reasons is almost impossible when you hit a bad shot and it looks, sounds and feels bad. The opposite can be true with a driver you really like "pushed that one a little and I'm in the rough but dam that felt good!" something we have all said or heard from a pard. 

... Choosing a driver, especially at todays price, is always a trade off. I think starting with looks and feel that are at least acceptable and then forgiveness/accuracy followed by distance gives you the best chance of finding a new driver the will give you the best results. So looking at the data from this MGS test is a great tool, but in the end your trade offs will dictate which driver is best for you and that is going to be different for someone with a 110 or a 85 mph clubbed speed as well as someone with the same swing speed that thought the Epic was dead feeling/sounding or dense and solid. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Do you consider jailbreak to be game changing? What about twistface? 

Jailbreak for sure.  Twist face, not so much. Jailbreak reestablished Callaway as a top 3 driver and in many counts, #1 on Tour.

 

Twist face isn’t anything different than Golf Pride announcing Align technology or Lamkin and their Calibrate. If anything, just a new dress on an old doll. Cleveland VAS Titanium drivers from the late 1990’s were promoting bulge & roll almost 30 years ago.

 

IMO, the greatest advance in driver technology that doesn’t get as much recognition as it should is the forgiveness distributed across the face of newer drivers. Perfect strikes will always make for great numbers but in a game of mis-hits, this is where drivers are really making strides.  

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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8 minutes ago, bens197 said:

Twist face isn’t anything different than Golf Pride announcing Align technology or Lamkin and their Calibrate. If anything, just a new dress on an old doll. Cleveland VAS Titanium drivers from the late 1990’s were promoting bulge & roll almost 30 years ago.

 

IMO, the greatest advance in driver technology that doesn’t get as much recognition as it should is the forgiveness distributed across the face of newer drivers. Perfect strikes will always make for great numbers but in a game of mis-hits, this is where drivers are really making strides.  

 

... Great point on mis-hits and current drivers Ben. And concerning Twist Face, here is an exerpt from my 2018 review of the Cobra F8:

"I talked with Mike Yagley Director R&D & Testing about the F8 that incorporates their patented Dual Roll design, and the F8 has a tilted bulge and roll axis that features more curvature on the top half and flatter on the bottom half that optimizes launch and spin. Sound familiar? Let me just say that I have no problem with OEMs using similar designs and calling them their own, it is part of the game. So Taylor Made’s version of Cobra’s Dual Roll they call Twist Face is fair game but I imagine it really grates the engineers at Cobra when Taylor Made says they are the “only” OEM using this technology when Cobra has been using it successfully for 6 years now."

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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in the big picture, 3-5 yards means nothing in relation to scoring.  If i can hit the fairway everytime over 5 yards longer in the rough, im taking the shorter driver all day long....splitting haris for 2mph ball speed or 3 yards in length means nothing. 

Golf is cool

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2 hours ago, bens197 said:

Jailbreak for sure.  Twist face, not so much. Jailbreak reestablished Callaway as a top 3 driver and in many counts, #1 on Tour.

 

Twist face isn’t anything different than Golf Pride announcing Align technology or Lamkin and their Calibrate. If anything, just a new dress on an old doll. Cleveland VAS Titanium drivers from the late 1990’s were promoting bulge & roll almost 30 years ago.

 

IMO, the greatest advance in driver technology that doesn’t get as much recognition as it should is the forgiveness distributed across the face of newer drivers. Perfect strikes will always make for great numbers but in a game of mis-hits, this is where drivers are really making strides.  

Wouldn’t twistface fall into your last paragraph? They took bulge and roll which is what I’m assuming you are referring to in your second paragraph and made it better this improving how a driver performs across the face. I don’t recall the numbers that TaylorMade put out but twistface reduces the typical offline shot by several yards while improving launch and spin numbers on the high toe and low heel shots compared to the typical results from the standard bulge and roll faces. So not only does it provide better dispersion but it improves speed and distance retention.

What about AI usage by callaway? Is that groundbreaking?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Do you consider jailbreak to be game changing? What about twistface?

I don't. But the makers - marketers of such equipment do.

I'm certainly no golf equipment historian by any stretch, but IMO Ping introduced game-changing technology with their irons back when. TaylorMade introduced game-changing technology with metal woods. Some may say the Callaway Big Bertha drivers were game changers. Like many things... beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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When the manufacturers are talking about "ground breaking technology" or "pushing the club further than ever before" all that means is incremental change year to year. They moved the center of gravity lower 1.5mm over 2019 models or they thinned the face by the width of two atoms.

Where you'll notice the difference is, for example, your still playing an Titleist 912 driver and you go hit the 2020 model. There will be worlds of improvement. Us weekend ballers aren't going to notice a year to year difference but you add all those increments up over a 5 or 7 year period, then you'll notice something.

To close, it's hard for club makers to change much and still be within USGA rules. Unless they change head size or COR etc, this is probably where we're at.

Take Dead Aim

Take Dead Aim

Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* 

Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15*

Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18*

Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro

Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58

Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar

Ball: Srixon Z-Star

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3 minutes ago, Tsmithjr9 said:

When the manufacturers are talking about "ground breaking technology" or "pushing the club further than ever before" all that means is incremental change year to year. They moved the center of gravity lower 1.5mm over 2019 models or they thinned the face by the width of two atoms.

Where you'll notice the difference is, for example, your still playing an Titleist 912 driver and you go hit the 2020 model. There will be worlds of improvement. Us weekend ballers aren't going to notice a year to year difference but you add all those increments up over a 5 or 7 year period, then you'll notice something.

To close, it's hard for club makers to change much and still be within USGA rules. Unless they change head size or COR etc, this is probably where we're at.

Take Dead Aim
 

For the most part this is true but many think in terms of speed and/or distance.  There are improvements that get made year to year in some cases. Look at the m5 and sim drivers. The standard deviation improved pretty significantly in the sim. So for many they are getting some more speed and distance but also better consistency strike to strike.

Then look at Callaway with the use of AI. They took the knowledge they gained in the epic flash and applied that to the mavrik drivers. They had a better understanding of the type of questions, inputs, etc to use to get better results and allowed them to have a different face on each of the heads as well as numerous heads/faces to the point of double digit models on the confirming list. As they learn more and more they will be able to continue to improve on that technology year to year even though their drivers are on two year cycles.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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The swing speed is dependent on the golfer but what's more important is the ball speed. Ive tested and compared the SIM to my M5 and yes the club head speed with the SIM was faster, but it was negligible. In looking at the ball speed, the M5 had faster ball speed by 3 to 4 mph. Another thing is the spin rate and launch angle. Those are the most important things rather than pure swing speed. Those numbers equate to distance. Swing speed gives you the opportunity to create ball speed but it doesn't guarantee an high ball speed. And ball speed is distance.

M5 7.5Deg UST Proforce V2 tipped 1" strong 70g X

M5 Rocket 3 14deg UST Proforce V2  70g X

GaparLo 2 17deg KBS Tour Hybrid Prototype 95g X

4-iron Titleist T-MB Project X 6.5

5-Pw Taylormade P7TW Project X 6.5

52 Slate Blue Vokey SM7 Project X 6.5

56 Jet Black Vokey SM7 Project X 6.0

60 HiToe Mill Grind Project X 6.0

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/8/2020 at 1:56 PM, did you see that? said:

looked at some reviews of cobra, callaway, and taylormade. While the reviewers liked the clubs they didn't seem to add any distance or club speed from last years model.....maybe save some dough and get last years?

I totally believe there’s some truth to this. I have a few friends on mini tours. They’ve informed me that PGA tour players themselves have told them that gains are incremental on a yearly basis. I bought a TS3 brand new early ‘19($499). It was a huge upgrade compared to my 915 in terms of distance. But due to uncontrollable spin, bought a M5 a months ago($299). For me, the distance was the same, but the M5 had less side spin on mishits resulting in more playable drives!! Id recommend saving a few hundred dollars and looking for drivers from a year or two ago. 

"The greatest pleasure is obtained in improving" - Ben Hogan

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/25/2020 at 2:14 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Wouldn’t twistface fall into your last paragraph? They took bulge and roll which is what I’m assuming you are referring to in your second paragraph and made it better this improving how a driver performs across the face. I don’t recall the numbers that TaylorMade put out but twistface reduces the typical offline shot by several yards while improving launch and spin numbers on the high toe and low heel shots compared to the typical results from the standard bulge and roll faces. So not only does it provide better dispersion but it improves speed and distance retention.

What about AI usage by callaway? Is that groundbreaking?

I'm really bear-ish when it comes to the use of AI and if anything, its use in marketing is going to make me snicker as a total gimmick. When I went to get fit for a new driver (I just wasn't loving my Ping Anser. I know, I know...) basically every driver I tried was identical on the stat sheet. TaylorMade (with TwistFace) was 2-3 yds shorter but slightly more accurate, Cobra would give me 3-4 yds which isn't worth $500 for me, Ping was almost exactly the same. Tried at least 3 shafts with each head to try and get it optimized. Then I swung the Epic Flash SZ. Through 8 shots, including one hit badly off the heel, mean increase in distance was 11 yards with a smaller standard deviation and a much tighter dispersion.

I have no clue if that's just a better combo for me, if it's jailbreak technology, if it's AI, if it's the shaft... all I know is these days I'm consistently about 15 yards longer and being 1-2 clubs less on approach means I'm hitting more greens. I don't *rave* about this club and I can't say if the technology is a "game-changer," but I'll certainly take the bump in performance.

Edited by greggarner
added detail about TwistFace

Driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 LS MkII 9.5* (@ 9.0*) with 46.5" Ventus Blue 6X
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4hy: :titleist-small: TS3 23* with Tensei AV Blue 70 S
4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 55* :cleveland-small: RTX 6 Modus3 Tour 125
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago with a :garsen: Quad Tour or :cleveland-small: HB SOFT Milled 10.5S with UST All-in

Ball: :callaway-small: Chrome Tour (but I might still have some :titleist-small: Left Dashes hanging around)
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review
:OnCore:
 Vero X2 - Official Review

The Stack System - Official Review

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7 hours ago, greggarner said:

I'm really bear-ish when it comes to the use of AI and if anything, its use in marketing is going to make me snicker as a total gimmick. When I went to get fit for a new driver (I just wasn't loving my Ping Anser. I know, I know...) basically every driver I tried was identical on the stat sheet. TaylorMade (with TwistFace) was 2-3 yds shorter but slightly more accurate, Cobra would give me 3-4 yds which isn't worth $500 for me, Ping was almost exactly the same. Tried at least 3 shafts with each head to try and get it optimized. Then I swung the Epic Flash SZ. Through 8 shots, including one hit badly off the heel, mean increase in distance was 11 yards with a smaller standard deviation and a much tighter dispersion.

I have no clue if that's just a better combo for me, if it's jailbreak technology, if it's AI, if it's the shaft... all I know is these days I'm consistently about 15 yards longer and being 1-2 clubs less on approach means I'm hitting more greens. I don't *rave* about this club and I can't say if the technology is a "game-changer," but I'll certainly take the bump in performance.

It’s probably a combination of jailbreak, AI and the shaft/head combo. The lower spin head could be an big influence too. Lower spin with good launch angle is going to equate to added distance. 
 

Without seeing the data from each it would be hard to say for sure. It’s also what’s great about golf right now and that there’s options to find the best fit for each person

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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