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2020 drivers not adding much speed


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Not necessarily true. Multiple variables to consider. Does the player bit the center, does your mishit fall in a hot zone for the driver, are you optimizing launch conditions? Increasing swing s

Hmm. I picked-up 3mph more ball speed with the new Honma vs my Epic Flash SZ. Both were professionally fitted with the use of aftermarket shafts for max optimization.   Add to this that ball speed co

... Unless you are dealing with a break thru from an OEM, last years drivers are always a great deal. Break thru's like Jailbreak from Callaway that had an increase in performance on center hits for s

It’s person dependent. I’ve read plenty of reviews that golfers stayed they gained clubhead speed and/or ball speed with sim/sim max and mavrik.

@Quigleyd I know has posted some thoughts around the forum about his experience with the sim and speed gains

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I watched a lot of the you tube experts reviews and seen that they were basically getting the same results. But I have seen videos when they actually try different setups and shafts and basically get fit first and the results were amazing. I tend to grain of salt these videos as I’m not sure they are testing In the optimal set ups.


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DRIVER -  Ping G425 SFT Driver Tensei AV 55 Orange Reg Flex 

Woods -  Ping G425 7 wood  Tensei AV 65 Orange Reg Flex 

Irons - Cobra Rad Speed 1 Length UST Recoil 780 Smacwrap Graphite Reg Flex 

WEDGES-  Callaway jaws 52/56/60

PUTTER-  Taylormade FCG spider putter 34" 

BALL-  Pro V1x or Tp5X  -- trying to figure this one out.

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5 minutes ago, Jbmullin said:

I watched a lot of the you tube experts reviews and seen that they were basically getting the same results. But I have seen videos when they actually try different setups and shafts and basically get fit first and the results were amazing. I tend to grain of salt these videos as I’m not sure they are testing In the optimal set ups.


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Check out txg and you can see how well they perform when optimized in comparison to previous release 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Just had a watch. Really like TXG always great content. Thanks


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DRIVER -  Ping G425 SFT Driver Tensei AV 55 Orange Reg Flex 

Woods -  Ping G425 7 wood  Tensei AV 65 Orange Reg Flex 

Irons - Cobra Rad Speed 1 Length UST Recoil 780 Smacwrap Graphite Reg Flex 

WEDGES-  Callaway jaws 52/56/60

PUTTER-  Taylormade FCG spider putter 34" 

BALL-  Pro V1x or Tp5X  -- trying to figure this one out.

Footjoy Tour S golf shoe 

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I don't buy the new stuff anymore due to the ridiculous prices.  I wait a couple years and buy a "new" two year old driver that works as well as the latest.  I usually change to a shaft I like also and a lot of times I'll just take the shaft from my old driver. 

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TaylorMade Sim Max 10.5° driver w/5.5 Evenflow Riptide 50 shaft & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grip
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-wood w/reg Fuijikura Air Speeder 40 shaft & std Lamkin Z5 TT grip
Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220 3-hybrid w/reg KBS 70 shaft & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grip
Titleist AP1 714 irons 5-PW & GW w/reg True Temper XP95 R300 shafts & std GolfPride Tour Velvet +4 grips
Tour Edge Exotics triple grind 60°/7° sand wedge & std TE grip
Cleveland Huntington Beach soft #11 putter with Winn 1.32" oversize grip
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I think a lot depends on the individual. 

For me I am looking at this year's line up and might grab one after a fit. I didn't love the lineup from last season for a few reasons. They worked well enough but nothing out did what I already had so now we will go back to then drawing board and see if anything can beat my current driver (g400). So far I have an idea of what I want to like however would be open to whatever works best.

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 ⛳🛄 as of Sept 24, 2020

SuperSpeed 2020 from 100-112 and climbing!

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero - Set at 10* with Aldila Rogue Max 65 gram 

Wood:    :cobra-small: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ weight back

               :ping-small: G410 Crossover - 2 and 4 iron

Irons:     :ping-small: i210 5-U w/ Nippon Modus 105 stiff (2018 Tester)

Wedge:  :ping-small: Glide 2.0 54* 58* w/ Nippon Modus 105 Stiff

Putter:   :odyssey-small: Stroke Lab 7 35* and oversized grip (2019 Tester)

Balls:      :srixon-small: Z Star

Other:     :Arccos: 360 (Caddie)

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If you want to optimize you should get fit for driver every three years.  I'd say there's nothing wrong with doing that fitting right at the end of a product cycle to take advantage of reduced prices.  I'm certain this year's group of drivers will be good as were last year's and the year before's - it's just a question of where you might be at with your own equipment to determine whether or not you want to bite.

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Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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  • StrokerAce changed the title to 2020 drivers not adding much speed
IF you want more ball speed, don't look at drivers. They're maxed out. Work on more swing speed!
BT

Not necessarily true. Multiple variables to consider. Does the player bit the center, does your mishit fall in a hot zone for the driver, are you optimizing launch conditions? Increasing swing speed does lead to more distance, as long as you are still hitting the center of the face.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  Bellum Winmore 787

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180

 

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27 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

IF you want more ball speed, don't look at drivers. They're maxed out. Work on more swing speed!

BT

If this were true, then TrackMan wouldn't report different ball speeds when striking different parts of the face. This is a blanket statement that has gotten stale and I wish it would go away. It simply isn't accurate. Like @cnosil said, there are many variables at play.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Aldila RIP Alpha 60 S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Bridgestone J40 CB (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach SOFT Premier 4 34"
Ball: Snell MTB-X
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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IF you want more ball speed, don't look at drivers. They're maxed out. Work on more swing speed!

BT

Hmm. I picked-up 3mph more ball speed with the new Honma vs my Epic Flash SZ. Both were professionally fitted with the use of aftermarket shafts for max optimization.

 

Add to this that ball speed consistency across the ENTIRE face is now the goal, which already has been shown in TXG videos this year, shows that drivers are truly not maxed out.

 

 

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Driver: :cobra-small: King F9 Speedback, Xphlexxx Busa 2 Liquid, XX stiff, 45”

Fwy:  :callaway-small: Super Hybrid 17*, Aldila RIP Alpha 105 S, tipped 1”

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, Graphite Design Tour AD-DI 105X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4-10, :Nippon: Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Wedges: Vega VW-06 50*/54*/58*, Dynamic Gold S400

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

All clubs have :Arccos:  In the Winn Dri-Tac 2.0 Oversize grips

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... Unless you are dealing with a break thru from an OEM, last years drivers are always a great deal. Break thru's like Jailbreak from Callaway that had an increase in performance on center hits for some are well worth the money imo. I gained close to 10 yards with Jailbreak technology. Then take a club like the Speed Zone that is really a tweaking of the F9 and my guess is most will find very little difference in distance or performance, if any at all. Although I have heard a few say they found the SZ more forgiving compared to their F9. Of course going from an F7 to a SZ could be well worth it because you can get the shaft you need based on a fitting, sometimes not always possible with last years model.

... The other change that might be worth upgrading, is a more forgiving model or a lower spin model. I love my F9 but would have liked a little more forgiveness when swinging poorly. The Xtreme may do exactly that so I made the change. But in case the Xtreme does not work better for me because of let's say:  too much spin, too high a launch or any other reason, I will have my F9 with me and can go back to it. That is what happened with my F6 after playing a Fly Z. After a few months the performance was just about identical but I preferred the sound and feel of the Fly Z so it went back in my bag. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Tensei Raw Blue 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 Cobra SZ 18.5* ... Even Flow 75R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
              Taylor Made RBZ Tour 21.5* ... Altus 85S
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 Vokey SM8 58* ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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I was thinking sort of like chisag was mentioning... 

Going further I don't think/believe there have been any truly game changing - break through - earth shattering driver/technology hit the market. (recently that is) If there had I'd have seen it on the course and witnessed its performance with my own eyes. Hell, I'd own one! But there isn't and hasn't been. That day might come but I haven't seen it. Yet. Personally, I don't buy much equipment. Sure, nothing for people like us beats a new driver or set of irons. I could buy new equipment all the time if I wanted. But what's the point? I get no return. My 5-yo irons are great and I know them well. My driver is 1 year old after retiring a 5 year old SLDR. (IMO the SLDR is still slightly more accurate than the Exotics 🤔) Initially I thought I gained a few yards. Not so sure now.

All of the golf mfg's are searching - desperate for a "breakthrough". Something that shatters everything else out there. But in reality all they can do is reshape the same ole box. The one they live in.

Therefore... I don't see the benefit of buying the latest and greatest year over year. Especially a Driver. Irons too perhaps. They've been selling more distance forever. And there have been gains. But... shouldn't all of us be driving the ball 400+ yards by now after adding up all the gains they've claimed/sold us? Wasn't one of them selling an additional 12 yards recently? LOL

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/16/2020 at 12:49 PM, cnosil said:


Not necessarily true. Multiple variables to consider. Does the player bit the center, does your mishit fall in a hot zone for the driver, are you optimizing launch conditions? Increasing swing speed does lead to more distance, as long as you are still hitting the center of the face.

I will defer. Yes, if you are all around the clubface, current drivers DO offer a bit more MOI benefit that some older drivers. I guess I also tend to think posters here have, at least SOME idea of what their ideal specs are. Swing weight, total weight shaft profile, etc. Perhaps not, but comparing clubheads using different specs is not really comparing clubheads. It's comparing clubs which may or may not be right for you.

BT

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On 3/16/2020 at 6:17 PM, PlaidJacket said:

I was thinking sort of like chisag was mentioning... 

Going further I don't think/believe there have been any truly game changing - break through - earth shattering driver/technology hit the market. (recently that is) If there had I'd have seen it on the course and witnessed its performance with my own eyes. Hell, I'd own one! But there isn't and hasn't been. That day might come but I haven't seen it. Yet. Personally, I don't buy much equipment. Sure, nothing for people like us beats a new driver or set of irons. I could buy new equipment all the time if I wanted. But what's the point? I get no return. My 5-yo irons are great and I know them well. My driver is 1 year old after retiring a 5 year old SLDR. (IMO the SLDR is still slightly more accurate than the Exotics 🤔) Initially I thought I gained a few yards. Not so sure now.

All of the golf mfg's are searching - desperate for a "breakthrough". Something that shatters everything else out there. But in reality all they can do is reshape the same ole box. The one they live in.

Therefore... I don't see the benefit of buying the latest and greatest year over year. Especially a Driver. Irons too perhaps. They've been selling more distance forever. And there have been gains. But... shouldn't all of us be driving the ball 400+ yards by now after adding up all the gains they've claimed/sold us? Wasn't one of them selling an additional 12 yards recently? LOL

 

Do you consider jailbreak to be game changing? What about twistface? 

20 minutes ago, RI_Redneck said:

I will defer. Yes, if you are all around the clubface, current drivers DO offer a bit more MOI benefit that some older drivers. I guess I also tend to think posters here have, at least SOME idea of what their ideal specs are. Swing weight, total weight shaft profile, etc. Perhaps not, but comparing clubheads using different specs is not really comparing clubheads. It's comparing clubs which may or may not be right for you.

BT

Having been on forums for the better part of 7 years there are plenty of members that don’t know their specs, many have never been fitted and the knowledge level varies from very little on equipment, the swing, etc to fitters, teachers and enthusiasts with tons of knowledge including on wrx where the perception is everyone is scratch.

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Yeah, I have a bad habit of thinking everyone else is as into this game as I am. Like when I found what worked best for me, I wanted to know why it did. What parts of the combination were key. Sure as heck saves a ton of time when testing things!

BT

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... I how said this many time when talking about irons but it holds true for drivers as well. Play the most forgiving driver you can effectively play. This means even more variables for drivers than it does for irons so it isn't as easy as choosing the Cobra Xtreme that is tops in forgiveness according to the MGS testing. The trajectory has to be optimized for your spin and ball speed. So if the Xtreme is more forgiving and you hit your target more using it than you do a SIM but it spins too much with a trajectory that is too high you can lose a ton of distance and then the trade off of more fairways would loose to needing one or 2 more clubs to reach the green. Of course the opposite holds true and the Mavrik SZ may launch lower with less spin but without enough club head speed can actually lose distance off the tee with less carry while missing more fairways.

... It just isn't an easy decision based on numbers from a test. Considering the above excellent video from TXG, the Cobra KING LTD was a technical marvel and you would think everyone would have played it. But almost all the engineers at that time played the Fly Z with the heavier than stock 18gm weight in the back! One ex D1 college golfer used the LTD but all the others used the Fly Z and may of them were very good players. The why was easy, it was by far the most accurate driver any of them had ever played. To a man they almost all hit the LTD longer, but just not as straight or as consistent. In the end that means on average they hit the Fly Z longer than the LTD, even though their longest drives came from the LTD. 

... And of course sound/feel and looks can be huge for a lot of players. While there are a few lucky golfers that don't care what their driver looks, sounds or feel like if it gives them the best performance, most have a preference. Maintaining confidence in a driver you just don't like for any of those reasons is almost impossible when you hit a bad shot and it looks, sounds and feels bad. The opposite can be true with a driver you really like "pushed that one a little and I'm in the rough but dam that felt good!" something we have all said or heard from a pard. 

... Choosing a driver, especially at todays price, is always a trade off. I think starting with looks and feel that are at least acceptable and then forgiveness/accuracy followed by distance gives you the best chance of finding a new driver the will give you the best results. So looking at the data from this MGS test is a great tool, but in the end your trade offs will dictate which driver is best for you and that is going to be different for someone with a 110 or a 85 mph clubbed speed as well as someone with the same swing speed that thought the Epic was dead feeling/sounding or dense and solid. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Tensei Raw Blue 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 Cobra SZ 18.5* ... Even Flow 75R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
              Taylor Made RBZ Tour 21.5* ... Altus 85S
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 Vokey SM8 58* ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Do you consider jailbreak to be game changing? What about twistface? 

Jailbreak for sure.  Twist face, not so much. Jailbreak reestablished Callaway as a top 3 driver and in many counts, #1 on Tour.

 

Twist face isn’t anything different than Golf Pride announcing Align technology or Lamkin and their Calibrate. If anything, just a new dress on an old doll. Cleveland VAS Titanium drivers from the late 1990’s were promoting bulge & roll almost 30 years ago.

 

IMO, the greatest advance in driver technology that doesn’t get as much recognition as it should is the forgiveness distributed across the face of newer drivers. Perfect strikes will always make for great numbers but in a game of mis-hits, this is where drivers are really making strides.  

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  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
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  • Ben Hogan PTx Combo Nippon Modus 3 120S
  • TaylorMade MG2 TW 56 & 60 Nippon Modus 3 120S
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