Is Club Champion worth it?

[Dr Strangelove]

11 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

You got it. Go to any golf store website or the manufacturer themselves who offer sales online like TM. Choose a driver and customize it with the upgrade shafts they offer. You will pay the same price for the driver as with the no upcharge shaft plus the cost of the upgrade shaft. The good thing about the price of getting the upgrade shaft with the purchase is you save about $100 compared to if you bought it separately.

now if you get an upgrade shaft that the brand doesn’t offer then you have to buy the driver with the free shaft and but the aftermarket shaft from an authorized dealer at full price.

Club champion has to pay the price of the club with shaft. That cost goes to the customer along with the shaft they get fit to.

Right. If I'm following you, I (they) had to buy the club with the original shaft.  And then I (they) had to buy another shaft.  Except I didn't also get the original shaft.  Irks me. But still satisfied overall.

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

That's been my experience too. I bought a set of Mizuno irons from them last year, got fit into a shaft that Mizuno offers as part of their catalog, and decided to PURE the shafts. They offered me two purchase options: (1) order it assembled from Mizuno and have them pull/PURE/reassemble, or (2) order the shafts through Club Champion separate from the heads, which made the PUREing process cheaper. Option 2 was significantly more expensive - I don't remember exact numbers, but it was in the $200-$400 range for 7 irons. They tried to sell me on option 2, saying something about their shafts outperforming the ones from Mizuno - I made sure to ask if they were actually the same shaft and not a lower quality OEM label, and they confirmed they are the same, so I'm not sure where the outperformance comes from. 

I also had them replace my driving iron shaft with a new custom shaft (previously matched my irons, went graphite), and they either kept or trashed my old shaft. 

For woods, my strategy is to buy shafts only from Club Champion, and buy heads off the rack or direct from the manufacturer. As long as I stick with the same brand and they don't change the adapter, I just buy the full club, swap shafts, and sell the old head with the new shaft (did this with my Epic when I upgraded to the Flash - the buyer was happy to have a new OEM EvenFlow with the old Epic head) - even if switching brands, a clubmaker will swap the adapters for around $20-30. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, Dr Strangelove said:

Right. If I'm following you, I (they) had to buy the club with the original shaft.  And then I (they) had to buy another shaft.  Except I didn't also get the original shaft.  Irks me. But still satisfied overall.

Yes but it would be the same if you order any brand from a store with an upgrade shaft.

[Dr Strangelove]

55 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes but it would be the same if you order any brand from a store with an upgrade shaft.

Thanks. I feel a LITTLE better then.  Just a little.

[RickyBobby_PR]

45 minutes ago, Dr Strangelove said:

Thanks. I feel a LITTLE better then.  Just a little.

I’m with you. It would be nice to be able to order the head at a lower price when ordering upgrade shaft. Custom club builders allow that and it’s usually close in price to ordering from the brand, with the advantage being larger shaft selection which is what CC offers and your chances of desired swing weight go up with custom builders, although from what I’ve seen around the web TM has done a good job this year getting that right. Titleist and Ping have been pretty good as well.

 

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

4 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Yes but it would be the same if you order any brand from a store with an upgrade shaft.

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’m with you. It would be nice to be able to order the head at a lower price when ordering upgrade shaft. Custom club builders allow that and it’s usually close in price to ordering from the brand, with the advantage being larger shaft selection which is what CC offers and your chances of desired swing weight go up with custom builders, although from what I’ve seen around the web TM has done a good job this year getting that right. Titleist and Ping have been pretty good as well.

 

@RickyBobby_PR it's not exactly the same, notably for clubs/shafts with adapters that you can just pop in and out. Some stores and ordering methods are roughly the same, but there are quite a few other factors mixed in -- for example, discounts/contracts that the OEM and/or shop has with the shaft manufacturer could change the pricing and strategy. The buying strategy is a big factor too, as there are (at least) three potential ordering methods with other shops: (1) If the shop orders directly from the OEM with the upgraded shaft (which you can do online as well), then you might or might not be paying full MSRP for the shaft upgrade; (2) if the shop orders the shaft directly from the shaft manufacturer, then you will most likely buy the club with the stock shaft and buy the upgraded shaft separately, so you'd end up with two shafts (unless you just opt not to go home with the stock shaft, or the shop chooses not to do it this way); (3) if the shop orders components separately (the CC model), you pay full MSRP for each component.

I think that's @Dr Strangelove's point here - Club Champion will direct you toward getting the head and upgraded shaft for full MSRP of both, and you only walk away with one shaft when you could walk away with two shafts for roughly the same price. The best strategy is going to vary across people and situations, but for me, as long as I'm using a driver with interchangeable shafts, I'd rather take the "two shaft" option if I can get it for a very similar price - I always keep an extra shaft on hand to help with resale and/or trade-in when I get a new driver head (I'm sure this extends beyond me, but I definitely would not include my Accra in a resale or retailer trade, and instead plan to keep it for my next head).

Examples of where the pricing could be different: Poking through the Mavrik shaft upgrade options, here are two comparisons. DISCLAIMER: I don't have quotes from Club Champion on these shafts, but every shaft I've bought from them was full MSRP, so I'm going into this with that as an assumption: 

• Aldila shafts may come at a discount. If you upgrade from their stock Rogue White 130MSI to the Rogue Silver 130MSI, ordering direct from Callaway will be a $300 addition. The Silver MSRP is $450 and it's selling for $425 from two of the online retailers I trust, so buying both the head and shaft from CC would be a $125-$150 premium over a direct OEM order for the same config. This discount may be explained by the fact that the stock is the same brand, so they might cut Callaway a deal on upgrades.
  • As I mentioned in a post above, CC could order the Aldila config directly from Callaway for that same price. They do this with the $0 upgrade shafts, but I'm not sure how they'd handle a $300 upgrade option, and in my experience, they will still push you to buy the shaft direct from them rather than from Callaway.   
• Oban: Callaway appears to have no discount, so their direct price will be the same as CC for the single-head-single-shaft setup. If buying Oban, buying the full "stock" club separately and the shaft through CC lets you walk away with two shafts for the same price. 

Being 100% fair on the price difference, PUREing and the adapter are also factors. If buying the full club directly from CC, I don't know if they include an adapter or if that's one of their add-ons; buying the shaft only, you'll definitely pay ~$35 for a new adapter through CC, unless you let them take the adapter from your other shaft. For PUREing, buying the full club or the shaft from CC likely includes PURE in the retail price, while it's ~$65 for them to pull/PURE/reassemble (so in the Aldila case, you're looking at a $365 shaft cost for the Callaway-direct upgrade).

[RickyBobby_PR]

18 minutes ago, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

@RickyBobby_PR it's not exactly the same, notably for clubs/shafts with adapters that you can just pop in and out. Some stores and ordering methods are roughly the same, but there are quite a few other factors mixed in -- for example, discounts/contracts that the OEM and/or shop has with the shaft manufacturer could change the pricing and strategy. The buying strategy is a big factor too, as there are (at least) three potential ordering methods with other shops: (1) If the shop orders directly from the OEM with the upgraded shaft (which you can do online as well), then you might or might not be paying full MSRP for the shaft upgrade; (2) if the shop orders the shaft directly from the shaft manufacturer, then you will most likely buy the club with the stock shaft and buy the upgraded shaft separately, so you'd end up with two shafts (unless you just opt not to go home with the stock shaft, or the shop chooses not to do it this way); (3) if the shop orders components separately (the CC model), you pay full MSRP for each component.

I’ve never paid msrp for any club. Most places don’t sell for msrp either they sell at the MAP or somewhere between. I have order multiple clubs directly from the brands...I tend to do this with taylormade as they offer 15% military discount which is better than what I get from my fitter. I have ordered thru my fitter and his accounts with the brands and I have orders from a custom club builder. 
 

From the brand directly you get the shaft you order and pay the retail price of the club plus the upgrade plus the cost of a grip is it’s not standard. Example would be the sim max at $499 with ventus velocore. You pay the $499 pus the $250 upgrade for the shaft and only get the ventus shaft. 

Going thru an account you could pay for the head plus stock shaft plus the cost of the upgrade shaft, still going to pay full price for all of them. Unless wanting a shaft to use for trade in at a later date this way isn’t something that makes sense to me

Thru a custom builder the head will be less than the retail price of a driver but you pay full retail for the upgrade shaft. Ventus will run $350 this way and the head about $350-400. Still comes out to about the same price as ordering they the brand. 

 

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

 

Thru a custom builder the head will be less than the retail price of a driver but you pay full retail for the upgrade shaft. Ventus will run $350 this way and the head about $350-400. Still comes out to about the same price as ordering they the brand. 

 

I think this is where we're saying different things --  this example is similar to my Aldila example. I agree with you in general, but this chain is about Club Champion. Club Champion doesn't charge $350-400 for the head, they charge $499 plus $350 for the Ventus. They might offer you the $499+$250 option direct from TM then tack on retro-PUREing for $65, or they might not for that kind of shaft upgrade. 

Maybe I'm wrong here when it comes to woods -- like I said, I've only bought wood shafts (not heads) from them, but this is the exact pricing scheme that they had for my irons, and others in this thread are reporting similar things. For my 7 iron set, the "Club Champion option" (buy shafts directly from CC) was significantly more expensive than buying the assembled irons from the manufacturer and retro-PUREing w/new grips (I don't remember the exact price difference because I threw the quote out almost immediately, but I'm pretty sure it was more than $30 per club -- there was certainly no "head-only" price reduction if buying shafts through CC). 

Edited March 23, 2020 by ChiefMikeOfficer
Clarify price difference

[Middler]

It's not just the (stock) shaft you're paying for twice, you're also paying twice for a grip and adapter (Callaway OptiFit) in my CC experience. Sorry that's another BS part of the golf industry and all the endorsement, advertising and other expenses consumers pay for.

 

[Dr Strangelove]

2 hours ago, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

@RickyBobby_PR it's not exactly the same, notably for clubs/shafts with adapters that you can just pop in and out. Some stores and ordering methods are roughly the same, but there are quite a few other factors mixed in -- for example, discounts/contracts that the OEM and/or shop has with the shaft manufacturer could change the pricing and strategy. The buying strategy is a big factor too, as there are (at least) three potential ordering methods with other shops: (1) If the shop orders directly from the OEM with the upgraded shaft (which you can do online as well), then you might or might not be paying full MSRP for the shaft upgrade; (2) if the shop orders the shaft directly from the shaft manufacturer, then you will most likely buy the club with the stock shaft and buy the upgraded shaft separately, so you'd end up with two shafts (unless you just opt not to go home with the stock shaft, or the shop chooses not to do it this way); (3) if the shop orders components separately (the CC model), you pay full MSRP for each component.

I think that's @Dr Strangelove's point here - Club Champion will direct you toward getting the head and upgraded shaft for full MSRP of both, and you only walk away with one shaft when you could walk away with two shafts for roughly the same price. The best strategy is going to vary across people and situations, but for me, as long as I'm using a driver with interchangeable shafts, I'd rather take the "two shaft" option if I can get it for a very similar price - I always keep an extra shaft on hand to help with resale and/or trade-in when I get a new driver head (I'm sure this extends beyond me, but I definitely would not include my Accra in a resale or retailer trade, and instead plan to keep it for my next head).

Examples of where the pricing could be different: Poking through the Mavrik shaft upgrade options, here are two comparisons. DISCLAIMER: I don't have quotes from Club Champion on these shafts, but every shaft I've bought from them was full MSRP, so I'm going into this with that as an assumption: 

• Aldila shafts may come at a discount. If you upgrade from their stock Rogue White 130MSI to the Rogue Silver 130MSI, ordering direct from Callaway will be a $300 addition. The Silver MSRP is $450 and it's selling for $425 from two of the online retailers I trust, so buying both the head and shaft from CC would be a $125-$150 premium over a direct OEM order for the same config. This discount may be explained by the fact that the stock is the same brand, so they might cut Callaway a deal on upgrades.
  • As I mentioned in a post above, CC could order the Aldila config directly from Callaway for that same price. They do this with the $0 upgrade shafts, but I'm not sure how they'd handle a $300 upgrade option, and in my experience, they will still push you to buy the shaft direct from them rather than from Callaway.   
• Oban: Callaway appears to have no discount, so their direct price will be the same as CC for the single-head-single-shaft setup. If buying Oban, buying the full "stock" club separately and the shaft through CC lets you walk away with two shafts for the same price. 

Being 100% fair on the price difference, PUREing and the adapter are also factors. If buying the full club directly from CC, I don't know if they include an adapter or if that's one of their add-ons; buying the shaft only, you'll definitely pay ~$35 for a new adapter through CC, unless you let them take the adapter from your other shaft. For PUREing, buying the full club or the shaft from CC likely includes PURE in the retail price, while it's ~$65 for them to pull/PURE/reassemble (so in the Aldila case, you're looking at a $365 shaft cost for the Callaway-direct upgrade).

Exactly, Chief Mike Officer.

[RickyBobby_PR]

16 minutes ago, Middler said:

It's not just the (stock) shaft you're paying for twice, you're also paying twice for a grip and adapter (Callaway OptiFit) in my CC experience. Sorry that's another BS part of the golf industry and all the endorsement, advertising and other expenses consumers pay for.

 

Consider it a learning experience and that you are now a better informed consumer than before the CC fitting. Sux that sometimes we learn things that hard or expensive way. It’s one of the reasons I would rather pay a custom builder I trust that doesn’t charge for the adapter and grip. 

[The_Rough_is_my_fairway]

I've been searching for an answer to this same question for years and there is a lot of good information here. I know guys that work there and I trust them. They're the only people that I will let fit me, but I will not buy from CC due to the cost. 

1. Process - The process is great. Even for an indoor fitting, they have enough product that it's not just about what is available stock. 

2. Price - This is where I start to cringe. The up-charges on everything are insane. For a stock setup (what I ended up fitting into) I was paying over $1000 more just for the product, then there was all the extras. 

3. SST Pure - They push it hard because they own it, or so I've been told. I believe in the process, but it always seemed weird to me to include it on some clubs and not on others. Other places use SST as well so it's not like the only place you can get it. 

4. Build - here's where it gets hairy. I've recently gotten clubs from them and they're great. Unfortunately, both of my clubs developed rattles and broken pieces of epoxy in the first two rounds. They stood by and fixed it, but then again - any store should and would do that.  I have a normal guy for doing my club work who has a little shop near me and he's insanely good at it so I'll be sticking with him for builds - but not everyone has that option. The perfect fit guarantee is great too, but I'm wary of the whole thing. I think of that movie Tommy Boy "I can take a s*** in a box and mark it guaranteed, I've got spare time". Like I said, it's a normal process from people who take pride in their work, and the guarantee seems to be a way to cover the inevitable low quality fitters that some answers above have experienced. 

5 Overall - I'd go just for the process and the information. no matter what, you get the info they take from you and you can make the decision of whether to order it or not.  I've never had the experience of pushy salesman, as I know the guys that work there, so I can't speak to that but like anything else I think it depends on who you get. 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by The_Rough_is_my_fairway
Just wasn't clear that I liked the clubs regardless.

[RollingGreens]

I'm still not entirely sure what they are fitting people for is the best product or the most expensive product, upcharge or not. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

26 minutes ago, The_Rough_is_my_fairway said:

I've been searching for an answer to this same question for years and there is a lot of good information here. I know guys that work there and I trust them. They're the only people that I will let fit me, but I will not buy from CC due to the cost. 

1. Process - The process is great. Even for an indoor fitting, they have enough product that it's not just about what is available stock. 

2. Price - This is where I start to cringe. The up-charges on everything are insane. For a stock setup (what I ended up fitting into) I was paying over $1000 more just for the product, then there was all the extras. 

3. SST Pure - They push it hard because they own it, or so I've been told. I believe in the process, but it always seemed weird to me to include it on some clubs and not on others. Other places use SST as well so it's not like the only place you can get it. 

4. Build - here's where it gets hairy. I've recently gotten clubs from them and they're great. Unfortunately, both of my clubs developed rattles and broken pieces of epoxy in the first two rounds. They stood by and fixed it, but then again - any store should and would do that.  I have a normal guy for doing my club work who has a little shop near me and he's insanely good at it so I'll be sticking with him for builds - but not everyone has that option. The perfect fit guarantee is great too, but I'm wary of the whole thing. I think of that movie Tommy Boy "I can take a s*** in a box and mark it guaranteed, I've got spare time". Like I said, it's a normal process from people who take pride in their work, and the guarantee seems to be a way to cover the inevitable low quality fitters that some answers above have experienced. 

5 Overall - I'd go just for the process and the information. no matter what, you get the info they take from you and you can make the decision of whether to order it or not.  I've never had the experience of pushy salesman, as I know the guys that work there, so I can't speak to that but like anything else I think it depends on who you get. 

 

 

Worth it is going to be golfer dependent. Some will have no issue with the price and the club building services they provide and will pay that fee. Of that some may have regrets and some won’t care.

Other will find the value of the fitting only to be worth it. The prices for the fittings are pretty standard price and like any place the quality of the fitting is dependent on the fitter. 
 

The experience is going to be based on how well the client communicates with the fitter in terms of budget, what they are looking for and their feedback with the club/setup as they go thru the fitting process.

If one has limited options in fitting locations a club champion fitting would be a good place to go to get specs and then order directly from an oem or an individual club builder.

1 minute ago, RollingGreens said:

I'm still not entirely sure what they are fitting people for is the best product or the most expensive product, upcharge or not. 

Well they will fit an individual for stock offerings if the person communicates what their budget is, otherwise the business model is to upsell.

If a person goes in and gets fit and there was a good back and forth then the person should end up with the best product for their swing. The fitting process is a two way street. If either side isn’t listening or talking to the other the fitting process more than likely won’t be as good.

I personally prefer to be outdoors or at least hitting from an indoor bay to an outdoor range to see ball flight so I wouldn’t necessarily go to a CC or other fitter who is on my doing indoors. 

[Middler]

56 minutes ago, RollingGreens said:

I'm still not entirely sure what they are fitting people for is the best product or the most expensive product, upcharge or not. 

They fit me for a driver shaft that diminished my results, I just sold it for 24% of what I paid. The process they used with me wasn’t statistically valid, but it ensured they’d have a shaft that appeared to perform better than what I had- I did NOT. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

4 hours ago, The_Rough_is_my_fairway said:

 

2. Price - This is where I start to cringe. The up-charges on everything are insane. For a stock setup (what I ended up fitting into) I was paying over $1000 more just for the product, then there was all the extras. 

3. SST Pure - They push it hard because they own it, or so I've been told. I believe in the process, but it always seemed weird to me to include it on some clubs and not on others. Other places use SST as well so it's not like the only place you can get it. 

4. Build - here's where it gets hairy. I've recently gotten clubs from them and they're great. Unfortunately, both of my clubs developed rattles and broken pieces of epoxy in the first two rounds. They stood by and fixed it, but then again - any store should and would do that.  I have a normal guy for doing my club work who has a little shop near me and he's insanely good at it so I'll be sticking with him for builds - but not everyone has that option. The perfect fit guarantee is great too, but I'm wary of the whole thing. I think of that movie Tommy Boy "I can take a s*** in a box and mark it guaranteed, I've got spare time". Like I said, it's a normal process from people who take pride in their work, and the guarantee seems to be a way to cover the inevitable low quality fitters that some answers above have experienced. 

 

3 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

I'm still not entirely sure what they are fitting people for is the best product or the most expensive product, upcharge or not. 

I can relate to all of these points -- I'm confident I overpaid for the irons that I bought through them, but it wasn't because their starting prices are steep, it was the add-ons (my price experience is in my posts from last year on this thread). They may have cheaper options available but tend to push toward the more expensive option (even if roughly equivalent) -- that's not saying they push to the most expensive shaft that they have (mine could have been much more expensive), just that they'll try to sell you on full after-market build, which is likely the biggest price tag. Plus their fitting fee...it's one and done if you make a purchase, but still steep relative to others that may waive with purchase. 

Build quality: my purchase history with them is a full set of irons, 2 driver shafts w/adapters (1 fitted, 1 similar shaft with a better design because I felt like it), a fairway shaft w/adapter, and a hybrid shaft. With those clubs, I've had three build issues - the short irons were set to the wrong lofts (just an oversight in specs on a combo set, but it was significant), the 6 iron had an epoxy rattle (not functional issue) that I simply dumped out when swapping the grip, and one of the driver adapters came loose after about 2 weeks of use. All were easily fixable, but annoying, especially considering the closest location is 90 minutes away for me (had to send in for the iron lofts, and I just fixed the other two myself). 

[MrBandit]

I used CC for my new irons fitting, i was there for 2 1/2hrs and I swung about 100 Balls. 
What i got out of it was that my current shafts Aerotech Steel 125 fibers where still better than any of the other 8 shaft combinations we tried. The difference was 1% , not enough to suggest replacing the shaft, instead we used the same shafts on the new Iron Heads.  They didn't just push the sale of new clubs and shafts.

I have gone back from Woods and Putter fitting, again was more of a recommendation other than what you have is garbage you need this new sticks.

I also have gone back to get adjustment on the the shaft driver combinations. Very accommodating to take a look and see if what I left with needs adjustment or replacement.  I wish they had an outdoor testing facility to actually see the ball flight vs the TrackMan.

 

[LeftyRM7]

I see this topic is back up and moving as it seems to every few months or so. I continue to use Club Champion. I get that their business model isn’t perfect and it definitely has a corporate feel to it, but there’s definitely value to using them. You won’t find a bigger selection of equipment at any other fitter.

I’ve been fitted for driver, putter, irons and I’m going next month for a long game fit to look at my hybrids and the shafts in my driver/3w. They have a big winter sale every year on fittings so I’ve paid full price for one of the fittings and for next months fitting I get a 50% loyalty discount. I didn’t pay a penny over MSRP for any equipment, actually got a 10% discount on my irons last year because of the shipping delays. I had the option of stock or aftermarket shafts. I was told my putter fit my stroke well and that I should keep using it, with a few minor adjustments. All of the add-on services and upgrades are completely optional. I’ve gotten and used free Trackman sessions a few times. In my experience, they stand by their work and are there to help whenever you need something adjusted or are unhappy with a purchase or fit.

I’ve said this before on here, but understanding what you’re getting into, knowing what you want and having realistic expectations is key.


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[maninthebox]

On 3/9/2021 at 6:47 PM, LeftyRM7 said:

I see this topic is back up and moving as it seems to every few months or so. I continue to use Club Champion. I get that their business model isn’t perfect and it definitely has a corporate feel to it, but there’s definitely value to using them. You won’t find a bigger selection of equipment at any other fitter.

I’ve been fitted for driver, putter, irons and I’m going next month for a long game fit to look at my hybrids and the shafts in my driver/3w. They have a big winter sale every year on fittings so I’ve paid full price for one of the fittings and for next months fitting I get a 50% loyalty discount. I didn’t pay a penny over MSRP for any equipment, actually got a 10% discount on my irons last year because of the shipping delays. I had the option of stock or aftermarket shafts. I was told my putter fit my stroke well and that I should keep using it, with a few minor adjustments. All of the add-on services and upgrades are completely optional. I’ve gotten and used free Trackman sessions a few times. In my experience, they stand by their work and are there to help whenever you need something adjusted or are unhappy with a purchase or fit.

I’ve said this before on here, but understanding what you’re getting into, knowing what you want and having realistic expectations is key.


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It sounds like what is offered depends on the location. My fitting experience was fine, but the local Club Champion does not offer stock shafts so it was somewhat of a waste since the shafts they offered were more than the clubs themselves. If they had the stock or factory optional upgraded shafts available I would consider going back.

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, maninthebox said:

It sounds like what is offered depends on the location. My fitting experience was fine, but the local Club Champion does not offer stock shafts so it was somewhat of a waste since the shafts they offered were more than the clubs themselves. If they had the stock or factory optional upgraded shafts available I would consider going back.

Club Champion has stock shafts it just might be the facility you went to wasn’t upfront about it so they could push the upcharge shafts. 

[LeftyRM7]

It sounds like what is offered depends on the location. My fitting experience was fine, but the local Club Champion does not offer stock shafts so it was somewhat of a waste since the shafts they offered were more than the clubs themselves. If they had the stock or factory optional upgraded shafts available I would consider going back.

In my opinion, you got a bad fitter. Any fitter has stock shaft offerings. A good fitter will be able to tell you what stock offering is best in the event they don’t have the exact shaft, and you’re not willing to pay for the upgrades. Sounds like you got sold a load of crap.


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[maninthebox]

On 3/13/2021 at 8:22 AM, LeftyRM7 said:

In my opinion, you got a bad fitter. Any fitter has stock shaft offerings. A good fitter will be able to tell you what stock offering is best in the event they don’t have the exact shaft, and you’re not willing to pay for the upgrades. Sounds like you got sold a load of crap.


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I specifically asked if they had the stock shafts or any offered by the manufacturer and was told no because they were inferior. It's good to know that there are others that do offer them. We have another one and a True Spec within two hours, maybe I'll try one of those.

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

On 3/14/2021 at 10:17 PM, maninthebox said:

I specifically asked if they had the stock shafts or any offered by the manufacturer and was told no because they were inferior. It's good to know that there are others that do offer them. We have another one and a True Spec within two hours, maybe I'll try one of those.

Were you actually buying full clubs or looking to get a new shaft in your existing clubhead? Irons or woods? Depending on the situation, your fitter might have sucked, or might have been telling (mostly) the truth.

For stock: If you were there to compare the 2-3 stock offerings for a specific driver or wood, Club Champion is not the place to get that done -they most likely will not carry those shafts (in my experience, GolfTEC will likely have this option, as will retail fittings). Keep in mind that there can be a difference between a stock shaft and an after-market version of the same shaft, which is especially true with woods (same holds true with "made for" shafts). A big name that sticks in my mind here is Project X HZRDUS - a couple years ago, they had a "stock" model showing up in off-the-rack drivers (the colors), an "after-market" model (same colors but labeled Handcrafted and way more expensive), and a higher-end/"tour" model (like the T1100). Club Champion is most likely not going to have that "stock" HZRDUS as an option, and their narrative is that the stock version is inferior to the others (and it may be). That doesn't mean they can't order the club with the stock shaft, but unless you bring it in yourself, they won't be able to fit you into it. These shaft differences are less prevalent in irons.

For other shafts offered by the manufacturer: They order clubs direct from manufacturers/reps, so they have access to the full shaft catalog from that brand (whether it's an off-the-rack shaft, a no-cost option, etc.). Same as above, they may not have the exact off-the-rack stock shaft for the fitting, but they should have quite a few of the "no/low cost upgrade" options available for the fitting, and they can order them at that same cost - if they told you otherwise, then you likely got a bad fitter. That's how I ordered my irons - Mizuno had my fitted shafts in their catalog, so I didn't need to pay for the shafts separately (the fitter did try to sell me on getting the shafts separately from Nippon, using similar phrasing to "inferior", but when pressed, acknowledged there should be no difference).

[maninthebox]

On 3/15/2021 at 12:08 AM, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

Were you actually buying full clubs or looking to get a new shaft in your existing clubhead? Irons or woods? Depending on the situation, your fitter might have sucked, or might have been telling (mostly) the truth.

For stock: If you were there to compare the 2-3 stock offerings for a specific driver or wood, Club Champion is not the place to get that done -they most likely will not carry those shafts (in my experience, GolfTEC will likely have this option, as will retail fittings). Keep in mind that there can be a difference between a stock shaft and an after-market version of the same shaft, which is especially true with woods (same holds true with "made for" shafts). A big name that sticks in my mind here is Project X HZRDUS - a couple years ago, they had a "stock" model showing up in off-the-rack drivers (the colors), an "after-market" model (same colors but labeled Handcrafted and way more expensive), and a higher-end/"tour" model (like the T1100). Club Champion is most likely not going to have that "stock" HZRDUS as an option, and their narrative is that the stock version is inferior to the others (and it may be). That doesn't mean they can't order the club with the stock shaft, but unless you bring it in yourself, they won't be able to fit you into it. These shaft differences are less prevalent in irons.

For other shafts offered by the manufacturer: They order clubs direct from manufacturers/reps, so they have access to the full shaft catalog from that brand (whether it's an off-the-rack shaft, a no-cost option, etc.). Same as above, they may not have the exact off-the-rack stock shaft for the fitting, but they should have quite a few of the "no/low cost upgrade" options available for the fitting, and they can order them at that same cost - if they tons you otherwise, then you likely got a bad fitter. That's how I ordered my irons - Mizuno had my fitted shafts in their catalog, so I didn't need to pay for the shafts separately (the fitter did try to sell me on getting the shafts separately from Nippon, using similar phrasing to "inferior", but when pressed, acknowledged there should be no difference).

I did a full bag fitting. Basically I was hoping to hit what was an option from a specific club manufacturer whether it be the actual stock or an available upgrade. With the number of upgrades offered directly from manufacturers these days I was hoping there was a place to try them out, similar to what you mentioned regarding your irons.

The intention of my comment wasn't to deter anyone from using CC, but rather to inform so others know what they are getting into and ask the right questions prior to going. I did end up buying a putter from CC, and bought a driver and 3 wood elsewhere that had similarly spec'd upgrades offered direct from the club manufacturer.

Thanks for the info on possible differences between the stock and aftermarket shafts that are branded the same. I wasn't aware of that - it seems pretty shady. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by maninthebox
typo

[cnosil]

Thanks for the info on possible differences between the stock and aftermarket shafts that are branded the same. I wasn't aware of that - it seems pretty shady. 

“Made for” shafts with exact same paint is become more rare in the industry. Today’s manufacturers are pairing the actual shafts with clubs as upgrades or even stock offerings.

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

2 hours ago, maninthebox said:

I did a full bag fitting. Basically I was hoping to hit what was an option from a specific club manufacturer whether it be the actual stock or an available upgrade. With the number of upgrades offered directly from manufacturers these days I was hoping there was a place to try them out, similar to what you mentioned regarding your irons.

This may be where you got a bad (or misleading) fitter -- they should have a bunch of the options offered from the manufacturer, if not the exact stock shaft. But I once had a fitter (I think my first CC fitter) tell me something like "if you're picking from their catalog and not paying an upgrade fee, then you're probably not getting an upgrade" -- I don't really agree with that because "upgrade" could just mean "better fit for you", which is definitely possible within the free options, but that statement could imply that they don't carry a bunch of the "free upgrade" options either. I also keep saying "might/may" because this is pure speculation - I don't know their full list of shaft offerings, and your fitter might have been truthful about their fitting inventory only having the "for cost upgrades" at that time.

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

“Made for” shafts with exact same paint is become more rare in the industry. Today’s manufacturers are pairing the actual shafts with clubs as upgrades or even stock offerings.

Definitely agree it's getting to be less of a thing these days. My stock shaft knowledge is a bit stale, and my CC knowledge is now over a year old thanks to  cancelling my last fitting, which is why I looked back a few years for the easy HZRDUS example -- stock with no HC stamp? CC wouldn't have it because it's "inferior" (even though Project X claimed it's not), but they'd likely have the $300-400 stamped option that didn't come stock in anything (until Srixon). 

I could see them taking a similar stance on the newer stock shafts and just not having them available for fittings, but if they truly are the same now, they may not be able to. Counter to what @maninthebox's fitter said, they advertised the HZRDUS Smoke Blue RDX on their Facebook page back in December -- looks like the Black RDX is a stock option for the SIM2 with the Blue is a no-cost upgrade, so maybe they will choose not to stock the Black (no mention of Black on the FB page), or maybe they'll try to push the more expensive PVD or Limited options for the Blue (even though those may just be paint jobs?)? Either way, if someone does get fit into a SIM2 with Blue RDX, CC should be able to offer an un-Pured version of this club for the stock SIM2 price -- if the fitter doesn't offer that as an option, then something's fishy. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

19 minutes ago, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

Definitely agree it's getting to be less of a thing these days. My stock shaft knowledge is a bit stale, and my CC knowledge is now over a year old thanks to  cancelling my last fitting, which is why I looked back a few years for the easy HZRDUS example -- stock with no HC stamp? CC wouldn't have it because it's "inferior" (even though Project X claimed it's not), but they'd likely have the $300-400 stamped option that didn't come stock in anything (until Srixon). 

The only shaft that really had anyone questioning the PX approach was the T800 made for callaway shaft that had same/similar paint job to the t1100.

As confirmed by PX on several forums the handcrafted version and the non are built to the same specs. The handcrafted version wa somewhat marketing but the cost difference was due to the amount that could be produced in SD along with the labor and other costs associated with building here in the states vs the large production run of shafts  and the cost of business in Asia. Because they could only produce less than 100 shafts a day and this the cost for that version.

[ChiefMikeOfficer]

16 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The only shaft that really had anyone questioning the PX approach was the T800 made for callaway shaft that had same/similar paint job to the t1100.

As confirmed by PX on several forums the handcrafted version and the non are built to the same specs. The handcrafted version wa somewhat marketing but the cost difference was due to the amount that could be produced in SD along with the labor and other costs associated with building here in the states vs the large production run of shafts  and the cost of business in Asia. Because they could only produce less than 100 shafts a day and this the cost for that version.

T800 was in my mind but didn't go back and look at it until your comment - I forgot how closely that resembled the T1100  

I saw those notes on the HC and stock being the same specs - the "inferior" and "Project X claims" comments were were more directed at CC's narrative and perception, not actual results. I don't know for sure, but I doubt CC actually carried the less expensive version. Also, I never looked deeply into whether there were tests to compare the two directly, but there are various comments out there about potential differences - e.g. theories were that Handcrafted were more reliably produced to those specs than non-HC, and MGS's Srixon First Look article kinda implies they are a "watered down" version of HC (it does not say that directly, but considering there were so many stock HZRDUS on the market already, that's how I interpreted the Standard Goes Upscale section). 

[RickyBobby_PR]

12 minutes ago, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

T800 was in my mind but didn't go back and look at it until your comment - I forgot how closely that resembled the T1100  

I saw those notes on the HC and stock being the same specs - the "inferior" and "Project X claims" comments were were more directed at CC's narrative and perception, not actual results. I don't know for sure, but I doubt CC actually carried the less expensive version. Also, I never looked deeply into whether there were tests to compare the two directly, but there are various comments out there about potential differences - e.g. theories were that Handcrafted were more reliably produced to those specs than non-HC, and MGS's Srixon First Look article kinda implies they are a "watered down" version of HC (it does not say that directly, but considering there were so many stock HZRDUS on the market already, that's how I interpreted the Standard Goes Upscale section). 

Some people including some I know personally felt the non hc played different. I tested both on a launch monitor in a fitting hanger played both versions of the hzrdus yellow and tested the hzrdus red and there was no distinguishable difference.

Ive also tested on a launch monitor a shaft rolled by the folks on SD vs the one I rolled and the numbers also had no distinguishable difference.

[Carl Vandrie]

Do not waste your time and money (1000's). If you are unhappy with your fitting that's tough luck for you. I have an upright swing  and my Ping irons  reflect that (yellow code) The fitter at CC never even inquired about that. My game has gone to hell since the fitting. Plus they built me a 5 wood when I asked for a three wood. Back to G20 and a loss of thousans of dollars