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Is Club Champion worth it?


Mr. 82

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2 hours ago, 63to69 said:

In closing, I met a Golf Channel personality (former tour player) and he said fitting was not a science, or consistent from fitter to fitter. That was my experience. 

And that's the rub most places, and most definitely at Club Champion. There's no doubt there are some outstanding fitters at Club Champion, but there are plenty of newbies who are working off the CC script and really don't know squat. If you have an ongoing relationship with a particular fitter at CC you've obviously found someone you're confident in. If you're a first timer, or a sporadic customer, you could easily get a useless newbie (like I did). And the fitting guarantee isn't worth the paper it used to be written on unless CC acknowledges a build mistake - there's no guarantee if the data they collect isn't representative, and that can easily happen using their script methodology. IF I go for another fitting, I'll try True Spec or a "manufacturer owned facility."

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On 2/18/2022 at 8:43 PM, flyingwedges said:

Can anyone answer these questions:  Does CC buy a full set of irons with shafts and grips, pull the shafts and reshaft with the suggested shaft from the fitting, OR does it have the contractual ability with OEMS to buy heads only?  If they are buying heads only, and not a complete set of irons, how does MAP or MSRP enter into the price charged to their customer?

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:47 PM, cnosil said:

CC provides their answer here:  https://clubchampiongolf.com/blog/misconceptions/

 

The blog post does address this, at least partially. One notable thing: they can  get fully assembled clubs, but they can also get components only, which is somewhat rare. If you get fit into something that the head manufacturer offers as a stock or no-upcharge shaft, then your starting price is exactly the same as buying direct -- but you pay more to pull-Pure-reassemble if you choose that option. 

From what I've seen, heads-only pricing is the same as stock shaft pricing. It only kinda makes sense, but that's what happens (often it's a $20-30 retail shaft that the OEM probably gets for much cheaper, so it's not much of a factor for a $125-150 iron). 

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Driver: :taylormade-small: Stealth Plus 8* (adjusted to 8.75*), Mitsubishi Diamana ZF 70 X Flex

Fairway: :taylormade-small: SIM, 15* (adjusted to 15.75*), Shaft is a 50/50 split between Accra FX 2.0 300F M5 Flex and Paderson Kinetixx Ballistic TP 85 X Flex

Irons:  :titleist-small: T200 "Utility Build" 3 and 4 irons with Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 95 X Flex, :titleist-small: T100S 5-PW with Nippon Pro Modus 120 X Flex (2021 MGS Test). These things are monsters. 

Wedges: :mizuno-small:T-20 Blue Ion 50.07, :Miura: K-Grind 2.0 Black 56* and Chrome 60* w/Accra SPI Tour

Putter: Total headcase, so it depends on the day. Rotate between :EVNROLL: ER11V ("Murdered Out" Black edition),  :mizuno-small: M Craft Type II Blue Ion and a Toulon Madison 

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Shaft pureing, spine alignment, etc. may (that is may…) benefit a tiny, tiny fraction of the very best golfers. Until recently it wasn’t even a thing. Now too many people think they “need” it when they don’t.

I believe that for the vast majority of golfers that money is far better spent on lessons. 👍🏻🏌️

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On 2/21/2022 at 3:28 PM, 63to69 said:

Shaft pureing, spine alignment, etc. may (that is may…) benefit a tiny, tiny fraction of the very best golfers. Until recently it wasn’t even a thing. Now too many people think they “need” it when they don’t.

I believe that for the vast majority of golfers that money is far better spent on lessons. 👍🏻🏌️

I've never heard anyone state that they "need" their shafts Pured. Personally I see the $35 charge for Puring as an optional assembly fee that's nominal and financially inconsequential.

Whenever I hear people presume someone's equipment purchase displaced funding lessons I wonder why. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I assume its envy getting the better of them. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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5w: :taylormade-small: SIM2 MAX

7w: :taylormade-small: SIM2 MAX

4i-GW: :mizuno-small: JPX921 Forged w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

54º: :vokey-small: SM9 D Grind w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

60º: :vokey-small: SM9 D Grind w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

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2 hours ago, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

Whenever I hear people presume someone's equipment purchase displaced funding lessons I wonder why. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Because people base their comments on their own personal experiences.  

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Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at N) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Mitishibishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Hybrids: :taylormade-small: M6 4 -- Fujikura Atmos R shaft

Irons:  :callaway-small: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBSTour Graphite  TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright

Wedges: Edison 53* and  57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright

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3 hours ago, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

Whenever I hear people presume someone's equipment purchase displaced funding lessons I wonder why. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I assume its envy getting the better of them. 🤷🏻‍♂️

35 minutes ago, CarlH said:

Because people base their comments on their own personal experiences.  

And some people come on the MGS forum asking about fittings admitting they aren't taking lessons. If you have a grooved swing, that's fine. But there was a guy not long ago with a 30 HI asking about fitting and many members recommended he do so? At a 30 HI, I'd spend on giving lessons/practice a real try first. A fitting could be a waste of time and money if your swing changes significantly before, during or after the fitting. Any decent fitter would warn of that.

 

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37 minutes ago, Middler said:

And some people come on the MGS forum asking about fittings admitting they aren't taking lessons. If you have a grooved swing, that's fine. But there was a guy not long ago with a 30 HI asking about fitting and many members recommended he do so? At a 30 HI, I'd spend on giving lessons/practice a real try first. A fitting could be a waste of time and money if your swing changes significantly before, during or after the fitting. Any decent fitter would warn of that.

 

A fitting is still going to help determine length, lie, and most likely shaft. Unless their setup/stance is way out of whack, all of those are still going to be good while taking lessons. 

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25 minutes ago, russtopherb said:

A fitting is still going to help determine length, lie, and most likely shaft. Unless their setup/stance is way out of whack, all of those are still going to be good while taking lessons. 

And doing both combined is even better despite some who think it’s a chicken and egg scenario. 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

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Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

And doing both combined is even better despite some who think it’s a chicken and egg scenario. 

Since I agree with you on many golf related topics aside from universal fittings, I am almost tempted to get your recommendation for a specific person to go to for a driver fitting after the totally useless BS driver fitting I had a Club Champion. I’d be more than happy to drive the ball measurably more consistently if a fitter could actually guarantee it…I don’t even care about adding any distance as a result.

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On 2/17/2022 at 11:11 PM, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

Not sure if we're still on topic or not but I'll continue to add my professional perspective if its welcome. 

Imagine you're (like me or the Ping manager) managing a major consumer brand with a protected network of authorized dealers. These agreements being made with retailers are anything-but happening by accident. Both parties are strategically and carefully choosing their partners. Being successful in this specific process itself is how and why people are getting paid to manage territories/regions. 

It's simply absurd to think a partnership would be broken over a single discounted in-person sale... especially after the salesperson invested so much time with them. It's like saying you divorced your wife because she spent too much money on groceries one time. If your friend's dealer had their account terminated it wasn't because of a discount given to a secret shopper; someone was already unhappy with the partnership. Perhaps that's why someone would invest in sending in a secret shopper. 

I hesitate to post this, as you have made your thoughts vey clear in MULTIPLE posts.  So it's probably best to just agree to disagree, but one more for the camp of the penalty you will pay with a least one company for selling below it's minimum listed price. It has a color coding pricing systgem that is not general public kowledge, but well known to retailers. Selling below the listed "color" price will get your account closed. 

It's not absurd, it's a non debateable fact.  The examples above, and my company (under previous managment) lost it's PING account for sellign below MSRP.  It took management, and time and pretty much signatures in blood, to get a new account set up.

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13 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I hesitate to post this, as you have made your thoughts vey clear in MULTIPLE posts.  So it's probably best to just agree to disagree, but one more for the camp of the penalty you will pay with a least one company for selling below it's minimum listed price. It has a color coding pricing systgem that is not general public kowledge, but well known to retailers. Selling below the listed "color" price will get your account closed. 

It's not absurd, it's a non debateable fact.  The examples above, and my company (under previous managment) lost it's PING account for sellign below MSRP.  It took management, and time and pretty much signatures in blood, to get a new account set up.

And they do send out "secret shoppers" to test their retail account holders.  Well said.

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PXG 0211 5 and 7 Woods  Paderson Kinetixx A Flex

PXG 0211 5 and 5 Hybrids  MMT A Flex

Cobra 7 Hybrid  A Flex

PXG 8,9,PW,GW Vista Pro A Flex

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1 hour ago, Middler said:

Since I agree with you on many golf related topics aside from universal fittings, I am almost tempted to get your recommendation for a specific person to go to for a driver fitting after the totally useless BS driver fitting I had a Club Champion. I’d be more than happy to drive the ball measurably more consistently if a fitter could actually guarantee it…I don’t even care about adding any distance as a result.

Im not sure any fitter would gurantee that you will drive the ball better. Most if not all would tell you they will see if your current setup is optimal for your swing and if not they will get you into a setup that is. Having a setup that’s optimized for your swing will reduce the effects of your bad swings while making your good ones have better results. As golfers it’s still on us to make the swing. Having a setup that works with our swings eps improve the changes we will make better swings.

I don’t many fitters in the Carolinas but True Spec is going to be a top choice because they are going to have outdoor capabilities which allows you to seee true ball flight. Imo this helps see what changes in ball flight a setup is doing and how a ball really reacts based on strike location. They are also some of the most qualified fitters around. The down side is their business model is all aftermarket to my knowledge. I don’t recall them offering stock options like CC does.  
 

I would always recommend an outdoor fitting whether it’s off grass or from a bay towards grass areas for the reasons mentioned above. Second I would contact the fitter and ask what their process is for conducting a fitting, during that discussion I would ask about your want for a guarantee and see what they say. Let them know what you want to accomplish and see what their response is. 
 

Once at the fitting be as honest with the fitter about how a setup feels, if you fee like you are having to swing different to make the club work and what your thoughts are about the ball flight you are seeing. The more communication during the fitting the better.

Ill message a guy that lives in N Carolina to see if he has any recommendations for fitters

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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29 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Im not sure any fitter would gurantee that you will drive the ball better.

Golf EQ does

Driver: :cobra-small: RADspeed 9* with Hzrdus Smoke Blue RDX 60X
Fun driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 9.5* with 46.5" Tensei CK White 60S
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
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44 minutes ago, greggarner said:

Golf EQ does

Actually they don’t. Their claim is that they will make you play better golf but don’t state exactly what that means. Plus the golfer still has to get the ball in the hole and that’s as much on the golfers ability to score as it is the clubs they use. 
 

 

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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34 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Actually they don’t. Their claim is that they will make you play better golf but don’t state exactly what that means. Plus the golfer still has to get the ball in the hole and that’s as much on the golfers ability to score as it is the clubs they use. 

I've worked with them before. You get to decide what your improvement metrics are. If the fit is based on tighter dispersion or more distance or whatever else, then those are the claims they're willing to back and if use ShotScope or Arccos or whatever else and show that you don't have improvement, they'll refund you. (Happy to DM you the email of the guy I worked with, if that would be helpful?)

Driver: :cobra-small: RADspeed 9* with Hzrdus Smoke Blue RDX 60X
Fun driver: :srixon-small: ZX5 9.5* with 46.5" Tensei CK White 60S
3-wood: :taylormade-small: SIM 15* with Diamana Limited 75S
5-wood: :cobra-small: RADspeed 18.5* with Motore X F3 60S
2i: :srixon-small: ZX with SteelFiber i95 Stiff

4i-7i :srixon-small: ZX7, 8i-PW Z-Forged, Modus3 Tour 120 S
50*, 54* :cleveland-small: RTX ZipCore Modus3 Tour 115
60* :cleveland-small: RTX Full Face ZipCore DG Spinner S400
Putter: :cleveland-small: HB Soft Premier 11s, :callaway-small: Toulon Chicago

Ball: Maxfli Tour, ProV1, TP5x, Left Dash
Bag: :srixon-small: Ltd Edition Tartan, blue/green/yellow

Using :ShotScope: to keep track of my shots
:SuperSpeed: and Fit for Golf 

Tested:
:wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 3i-PW, KBS Tour-V 110S - Official Review
:titelist-small: Blind Ball Test (Ball #3 vs Ball #4) - Unofficial Review
:ShotScope:
 V3 GPS Watch + Tags - Official Review

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53 minutes ago, greggarner said:

I've worked with them before. You get to decide what your improvement metrics are. If the fit is based on tighter dispersion or more distance or whatever else, then those are the claims they're willing to back and if use ShotScope or Arccos or whatever else and show that you don't have improvement, they'll refund you. (Happy to DM you the email of the guy I worked with, if that would be helpful?)

The last thing I’m going to do or talk about is a virtual fitting. I need to see the club at address, feel the shaft and head combo, hear contact and watch the ball flight. It’s why I don’t get fit indoors. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I hesitate to post this, as you have made your thoughts vey clear in MULTIPLE posts.  So it's probably best to just agree to disagree, but one more for the camp of the penalty you will pay with a least one company for selling below it's minimum listed price. It has a color coding pricing systgem that is not general public kowledge, but well known to retailers. Selling below the listed "color" price will get your account closed. 

It's not absurd, it's a non debateable fact.  The examples above, and my company (under previous managment) lost it's PING account for sellign below MSRP.  It took management, and time and pretty much signatures in blood, to get a new account set up.

My decades of direct professional experience managing protected brands at retail proves more to me than you and your hearsay ever will; so give it up and move on. Believe what you want; my life will not change a bit. 

Edited by Dog Faced Pony Soldier
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Driver: :taylormade-small: M1 with Veylix Arcane (new driver for 2022 pending)

5w: :taylormade-small: SIM2 MAX

7w: :taylormade-small: SIM2 MAX

4i-GW: :mizuno-small: JPX921 Forged w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

54º: :vokey-small: SM9 D Grind w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

60º: :vokey-small: SM9 D Grind w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER3

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1 (play #45)

Ball mark: Kraken Golf - Revolver

Tracked and scored by :Arccos: 

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Adding truncated clip (without commentary) of Club Champion Perfect Fit Guarantee to the record. 
 

“…if your Club Champion-built clubs do not deliver the results you saw in the hitting bay at the time of your fitting, you should come back within 90 days after you pick up your clubs so we can make it right. If you come back during said 90-day period, we will work to adjust your Club Champion-built clubs to find the same or substantially the same results initially seen on TrackMan in the hitting bay during your fitting…”

Edited by Dog Faced Pony Soldier

Driver: :taylormade-small: M1 with Veylix Arcane (new driver for 2022 pending)

5w: :taylormade-small: SIM2 MAX

7w: :taylormade-small: SIM2 MAX

4i-GW: :mizuno-small: JPX921 Forged w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

54º: :vokey-small: SM9 D Grind w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

60º: :vokey-small: SM9 D Grind w/ Nippon Modus Tour 105 S

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER3

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1 (play #45)

Ball mark: Kraken Golf - Revolver

Tracked and scored by :Arccos: 

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2 hours ago, Dog Faced Pony Soldier said:

My decades of direct professional experience managing protected brands at retail proves more to me than you and your hearsay ever will; so give it up and move on. Believe what you want; my life will not change a bit. 

My goal isn’t to change your mind. My years of experience in this tells internet hero’s never do.
  Actually I’m asking  you (once) to move on.  You’ve beat the topic to death. 

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:titelist-small: TSi2 18 FW with GD AD IZ 6 Shaft

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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6 hours ago, Bobbers said:

And they do send out "secret shoppers" to test their retail account holders.  Well said.

Yep. I constantly remind our staff of that fact.  

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:titelist-small: TSi1 Aldila Ascent 40G shaft

:titelist-small: TSi2 18 FW with GD AD IZ 6 Shaft

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T300 5-P Tensei  R flex shaft 1/4 long 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:ping-small: Tyne 4 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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