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Is Club Champion worth it?


Mr. 82

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2 minutes ago, ChiefMikeOfficer said:

They can get them directly, and they should have given you the option -- sounds like an error by your fitter (judgment on intentional vs. unintentional is up for debate), or if they really don't have the option anymore, then it's a change in their offerings. When I bought my Mizunos from them in 2019, they said they could either get them from Mizuno or order them separately -- cost direct from Mizuno was no different from me ordering them, except they push for upgrades like PURE (pull/pure/reassemble added some cost per iron). That left three options on the table: "Same price as Mizuno", "+$300 for direct plus retro-PURE", or "+$600 to get shafts through CC" (rough estimates - I don't remember the actual figures). I chose option 2, and have no idea if it actually made a difference 🤷‍♂️

They only provide me 2 options 1. With pure, 2. without pure.   I repeatedly explained    that I didn't understand the pricing compared to ordering direct.   The Salesperson "fitter" has just kept pushing that this is the best price, and the clubs will be exact and he guarantees results.      I have decide to order Mizunos through the local fitter, just the swing adjustment he provide me have improved my game.  Looking forward to getting the clubs in 8-10 weeks. 

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14 hours ago, NC Golfer said:

Ok aside from being expensive. For your average Joe, non-tournament player. Honestly, how many strokes does one save in a round for a CC build? Same question for a CC fitting and self source? I have always added a half inch of length to my clubs as my custom order and a regular shaft, normal lie angles. Seems to work out fine. 

I have thought about this for a little while before answering and here are my thoughts.   If you are thinking on a round by round basis you are probably looking at it the wrong way.   The goal of fitting is to obviously help your individual shots but you really can’t measure it over a single round as there are so many variables in play. New clubs also won’t help fix stupid decision making on the course.   You really need to look more at a long term improvement and having a lower floor and ceiling score.   Bringing in a strokes gained kind of thought; if you hit that fitted driver 10 yards farther with the same or even a slightly wider dispersion your strokes gained for that shot should improve by fractions of a stroke. Making up some numbers: that drive that is 10 yards farther and in good position might save you .25 strokes; if it is in bad position maybe you lose .1 instead of .5 strokes.   
you also need to look at the average joes intent.  Does he really want to get better? Is he taking lessons, learning more about course management, practicing, and tracking metrics about his game.  Or is he just showing up to the course, wanting to hang out with his buddies, drink some beers, and hoping hit hits career shots and scores.   The later guy may actually have improved his average scores by some number and never realize he got better because of the fitter clubs because he had a few bad rounds and doesn’t really track anything about their game.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 5-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter: Auditions ongoing 

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, :seemore-small: mFGP2, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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On 8/4/2021 at 6:26 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Not even close to the truth. Even the made for callaway hzrdus im shaft isn’t low end.

The ping tour shaft is actually built off the aftermarket elements chrome+
 

The hzrdus shafts, the Aldila rogue white which is stock in at least one brand are $300+ shafts when bought from aftermarket dealers. Just like a graphite design, Accra, fujikura and so on

I'm afraid that you are the one that is wrong on this issue. While it IS true that a lot of the new drives come with shafts made by "Good After market" shaft companies, like Fujijura those shaft are NOT the same as the After Market shafts the company sells. Here's a FACT for you to concerned. I picked up a Cobra driver only a few years ago, with a shaft that had the SAME NAME printed on it as what the shaft company was selling at the time. This was the BEST driver Cobra was selling at that time, NOT a cheaper model. When I did some research on the factory shaft I found out that the factory shaft had a Lower bend point than the After Market shaft of the same name. It also had a "Much Higher" torque rating than the After market shaft with the same name. What was equally interesting was than then I picked up the REAL After market shaft and tried it in the driver, I got MUCH better performance than what I was getting from the factory installed shaft of the same name and flex. I do NOT remember the exact numbers for the torque rating of each, but if my memory is correct, it was around 3.0* for the real After market shaft, and 4.5* for the cheap factory version of that shaft. The factory shaft was also about 10 grams "Lighter" than the After market shaft of the same flex. You might also like to know that the After market shaft sold by the shaft company was priced at right around "$50 less" than what Cobra was selling their top end drivre for with the same shaft name installed. 

Ask yourself this simple question. HOW could Cobra or any OEM sell a complete driver for only $50 more than what the shaft company is getting for the shaft alone? Truth is they "Can't", not unless it's a watered down cheaper version of the shaft. There is a good  reason why tour golfers like DJ do NOT play a TM driver with a TM factory shaft. The reason is that the factory shaft is much cheaper and of lower quality than the good after market shafts on the market. 

What you have to remember is that most if not ALL OEM's send out "QOUTE" requests to the top shaft companies to get the "Lowest" price they can for "Thousands of shafts at a time". This is so they can make more money when they sell thousands of driver to the average golfer. 

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On 8/5/2021 at 6:11 AM, jtgavigan said:

I agree. Most of the made for shafts are pretty good. I used to test clubs for Wilson Sporting Goods back in the early 2000s when they had their testing facility in Humboldt,  TN. Most of the made for shafts performed quite admirable against the best shafts they gave me. The only exception I remember was the Fujikura Speeder 757. That one outperformed everything.

@IONEPUTT I respectfully disagree on your argument about shaft alignment. Thecounter argument is that many drivers, fairway woods and hybrids are adjustable and the shaft actually rotates, as the adapter doesn't have a sleeve to keep the shaft in the same orientation. So, install a pured, FLO'd, or spine aligned shaft and then decide you want to tweak the settings. Now, you are no longer aligned unless the adapter sleeve allows the shaft to stay in the same orientation. Both Taylormade and PING have sleeves that allow the shaft to rotate during adjustment.

Xcaliber shafts have an alignment process before they put the finishes on their shafts. Last week, I installed one in my PING 3 wood and assumed I would be playing it in the -1°, flat setting (as I was fitted for). So, that is how I installed the shaft.

After some more testing, I decided that I really didn't like so many misses right. I played with the -1.5° and -1.0° settings and decided I liked the -1.0 setting, which also is 2° more upright yet still 0.5° flatter than the other 3 woods I have gamed. Now, my shaft is no longer spine aligned. I highly doubt I will see a huge dispersion difference than if I reinstalled the shaft with the graphics aligned. 

I used to have every shaft pured and now no longer request it. I am not good enough to notice a difference and am pretty convinced that unless it is a complete garbage shaft, that there is little difference. I have seen studies that support puring and many that say it makes no difference. I would tend to agree that the results difference would be negligible. Just my opinion and experience over the last 19 years of being my own club builder. 

As soon as you put certain adjustment sleeves on a club and start tweaking, any supposed benefits of puring or any other alignment method would be gone.

You are correct about drives with adjustable tip adapters. They DO change the alignment of the shaft when you change the setting. And this is the "MAIN REASON" that I do NOT have a new driver in my bag, and most likely Never Will. I'm playing a 2005 model driver from Cleveland and have for 15 years. Truth is that an adjustable sleeve on a shaft is a GREAT TOOL for a custom fitting. But after the fitting is complete, it is mostly a waste of money, and only ruins the benefit of a properly aligned and installed shaft. And if you think that the newest drivers that sell for $500 or more are  better than the older models, you might be surprised to learn that they are NOT all that much better IF at all. Fact is I have been going to OEM demo days at my local golf course and testing their newest most expensive drivers for over 15 years now, and when I hit my old driver and compare it to the newest models, even the factory rep tells me to stick with my old 2005 driver and same my money, as I hit the old driver longer and straighter than I do they new toys. 

The ONLY real advantage of the newer driver is that they are MORE forgiving than my old driver. And IF you need a more forgiving driver, than by all means buy one for around $500 or so. But if you like to work the ball right or left off the tee, NOT SO GOOD. More forgiving also mean "harder to Work the ball". It's a trade off of more forgiving, harder to work the ball.  

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26 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

I'm afraid that you are the one that is wrong on this issue. While it IS true that a lot of the new drives come with shafts made by "Good After market" shaft companies, like Fujijura those shaft are NOT the same as the After Market shafts the company sells. Here's a FACT for you to concerned. I picked up a Cobra driver only a few years ago, with a shaft that had the SAME NAME printed on it as what the shaft company was selling at the time. This was the BEST driver Cobra was selling at that time, NOT a cheaper model. When I did some research on the factory shaft I found out that the factory shaft had a Lower bend point than the After Market shaft of the same name. It also had a "Much Higher" torque rating than the After market shaft with the same name. What was equally interesting was than then I picked up the REAL After market shaft and tried it in the driver, I got MUCH better performance than what I was getting from the factory installed shaft of the same name and flex. I do NOT remember the exact numbers for the torque rating of each, but if my memory is correct, it was around 3.0* for the real After market shaft, and 4.5* for the cheap factory version of that shaft. The factory shaft was also about 10 grams "Lighter" than the After market shaft of the same flex. You might also like to know that the After market shaft sold by the shaft company was priced at right around "$50 less" than what Cobra was selling their top end drivre for with the same shaft name installed. 

Ask yourself this simple question. HOW could Cobra or any OEM sell a complete driver for only $50 more than what the shaft company is getting for the shaft alone? Truth is they "Can't", not unless it's a watered down cheaper version of the shaft. There is a good  reason why tour golfers like DJ do NOT play a TM driver with a TM factory shaft. The reason is that the factory shaft is much cheaper and of lower quality than the good after market shafts on the market. 

What you have to remember is that most if not ALL OEM's send out "QOUTE" requests to the top shaft companies to get the "Lowest" price they can for "Thousands of shafts at a time". This is so they can make more money when they sell thousands of driver to the average golfer. 

I’ve been to both PX and UST. I’ve had the chance to spend two days with the VP of design for their shafts as well as not only watch how shafts are made but to make one myself. I’ve spent two days with the VP of marketing for UST and also like at PX toured the facility. We saw the ins and outs of materials, software used to design shafts and so on.

We got to ask their staff any question we wanted.

In years past there were more made for shafts especially from companies like matrix and Mitsubishi. Some brands still have after market shafts that are made for places like Club Champion. Fujikura lists the specs for the non velocore as well as other made for shafts on their website so they aren’t hiding what shafts are oem made for or their specs.

Let’s use Aldila and PX to further go down this road. When a person orders a PX shaft in TM like the hzrdus rdx blue or black, the hazardous smoke yellow, green or black that is the same shaft that another golfer can order from Cobra and the other OEMs that offer it. It’s also the same shaft that is sent to the various dealers they work with who sell it for a premium price. The Aldila rogue white that Callaway offered last year as the first company to have it as a stock option is the same shaft that is aftermarket on other OEMs and the dealers Aldila work with.

A few years back cobra used a lot of matrix shafts and they were typically made for cobra and matrix was known for repainting shafts and calling them a different shaft or not being forth coming.

Once again in the last several years the number of made for shafts that are offered by various brands are nowhere near what they used to be and the majority of the stock shafts are the real deal

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 8/5/2021 at 6:11 AM, jtgavigan said:

I agree. Most of the made for shafts are pretty good. I used to test clubs for Wilson Sporting Goods back in the early 2000s when they had their testing facility in Humboldt,  TN. Most of the made for shafts performed quite admirable against the best shafts they gave me. The only exception I remember was the Fujikura Speeder 757. That one outperformed everything.

@IONEPUTT I respectfully disagree on your argument about shaft alignment. Thecounter argument is that many drivers, fairway woods and hybrids are adjustable and the shaft actually rotates, as the adapter doesn't have a sleeve to keep the shaft in the same orientation. So, install a pured, FLO'd, or spine aligned shaft and then decide you want to tweak the settings. Now, you are no longer aligned unless the adapter sleeve allows the shaft to stay in the same orientation. Both Taylormade and PING have sleeves that allow the shaft to rotate during adjustment.

Xcaliber shafts have an alignment process before they put the finishes on their shafts. Last week, I installed one in my PING 3 wood and assumed I would be playing it in the -1°, flat setting (as I was fitted for). So, that is how I installed the shaft.

After some more testing, I decided that I really didn't like so many misses right. I played with the -1.5° and -1.0° settings and decided I liked the -1.0 setting, which also is 2° more upright yet still 0.5° flatter than the other 3 woods I have gamed. Now, my shaft is no longer spine aligned. I highly doubt I will see a huge dispersion difference than if I reinstalled the shaft with the graphics aligned. 

I used to have every shaft pured and now no longer request it. I am not good enough to notice a difference and am pretty convinced that unless it is a complete garbage shaft, that there is little difference. I have seen studies that support puring and many that say it makes no difference. I would tend to agree that the results difference would be negligible. Just my opinion and experience over the last 19 years of being my own club builder. 

As soon as you put certain adjustment sleeves on a club and start tweaking, any supposed benefits of puring or any other alignment method would be gone.

You state that you think most factory installed shaft are pretty good and are playable as they come. That can be true some times, but NOT always. Here is a true story that might just change your mind. 

A few years ago I was in a golf store looking for a spare driver to go with my Cleveland Launcher 460 Comp. I found TWO 460 Comps in the used rack, one looking like NEW, and the other WELL WORN. The shaft factory shaft of the same weight and flex in both. Only difference was the condition and price. I picked up both and headed to the launch monitor to see what each would do. After warming up a little I hit the pretty looking one and got a BIG slice out of it just about EVERY time I hit it. Looks great, performed like garbage. Then I hit to worn out driver and hit EVERY ball pretty much straight and down the middle 90 % of the time. Looks terrible, performs GREAT. So the question was spend $35 for the ugly driver that I could hit great, or pay $50 for the pretty driver that hit a great big slice? What I did was I got BOTH of them and did a test. When I got home I pulled the shaft from the pretty driver, did a Spine alignment followed by a FLO alignment and then re-installed the shaft  back in the head. Two days later I went to the range and tested both driver again. This time the ugly driver was again a good, well behaved driver. Long and Straight. When I re=tested the pretty driver with the bad attitude and a love for slicing the ball, IT TOO, was giving me nice performance, with NO SLICE in sight. That pretty driver that most likely was NOT hit much went from a slick machine to a fairway finder, with nothing more than a proper alignment and installation of the factory shaft. 

End of this story is that I removed the chipped paint form the head of the ugly driver and repainted it to look like new, only a different color. The Pretty driver now has a new after market shaft in it, as does the re-finished one, and are my two back up drivers should I ever need them. I also loan them out from time to time to a playing partner in need of a good driver. Once they hit either of these two old drivers they learn what a good driver can do for them, and more often than not they ask me to build them a new toy for their bag. 

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20 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’ve been to both PX and UST. I’ve had the chance to spend two days with the VP of design for their shafts as well as not only watch how shafts are made but to make one myself. I’ve spent two days with the VP of marketing for UST and also like at PX toured the facility. We saw the ins and outs of materials, software used to design shafts and so on.

We got to ask their staff any question we wanted.

In years past there were more made for shafts especially from companies like matrix and Mitsubishi. Some brands still have after market shafts that are made for places like Club Champion. Fujikura lists the specs for the non velocore as well as other made for shafts on their website so they aren’t hiding what shafts are oem made for or their specs.

Let’s use Aldila and PX to further go down this road. When a person orders a PX shaft in TM like the hzrdus rdx blue or black, the hazardous smoke yellow, green or black that is the same shaft that another golfer can order from Cobra and the other OEMs that offer it. It’s also the same shaft that is sent to the various dealers they work with who sell it for a premium price. The Aldila rogue white that Callaway offered last year as the first company to have it as a stock option is the same shaft that is aftermarket on other OEMs and the dealers Aldila work with.

A few years back cobra used a lot of matrix shafts and they were typically made for cobra and matrix was known for repainting shafts and calling them a different shaft or not being forth coming.

Once again in the last several years the number of made for shafts that are offered by various brands are nowhere near what they used to be and the majority of the stock shafts are the real deal

Thank you for your reply. It's good to hear that some of the newer driver are now coming with decent factory shafts.  That was NOT the case only a few years back. I have NOT tested any of the new driver shafts to see if they are high end quality or not. Not in the last 4 or 5 years, so I was going by what my testing of the shaft was telling me a few years ago. 

I also have used Aldila and UST shafts in my clubs, and I like them both. WHAT I will tell you is that I do NOT install any of those shafts until I do a Spine and FLO alignment of the shaft. Only then will I install the shaft in either a club for myself or for a customer. I can NOT speak for all golfers of all skill levels, but my testing has shown me that ALL shaft, no matter the brand or price, will perform better only when they are properly aligned and installed in the head. 

According to what you are posting, a golfer can now get a good aftermarket shaft of good quality in a new driver from the top OEM's. It's about time in my opinion.  Now if ONLY we could get the OEM's to do a proper spine and FLO alignment on the shaft before they install it. NOT that it would matter with the new driver and wood with the adjustable sleeve adapters, as that only ruins what an alignment would do for performance. 

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7 minutes ago, IONEPUTT said:

Thank you for your reply. It's good to hear that some of the newer driver are now coming with decent factory shafts.  That was NOT the case only a few years back. I have NOT tested any of the new driver shafts to see if they are high end quality or not. Not in the last 4 or 5 years, so I was going by what my testing of the shaft was telling me a few years ago. 

I also have used Aldila and UST shafts in my clubs, and I like them both. WHAT I will tell you is that I do NOT install any of those shafts until I do a Spine and FLO alignment of the shaft. Only then will I install the shaft in either a club for myself or for a customer. I can NOT speak for all golfers of all skill levels, but my testing has shown me that ALL shaft, no matter the brand or price, will perform better only when they are properly aligned and installed in the head. 

According to what you are posting, a golfer can now get a good aftermarket shaft of good quality in a new driver from the top OEM's. It's about time in my opinion.  Now if ONLY we could get the OEM's to do a proper spine and FLO alignment on the shaft before they install it. NOT that it would matter with the new driver and wood with the adjustable sleeve adapters, as that only ruins what an alignment would do for performance. 

This has been the case for the last 5+ years. Callaway was probably the first brand to really get into offering more shafts for no upcharge.

Theres still made for shafts from several shaft manufacturers including PX who has done several for Callaway. 
 

What has changed in the industry is as you mentioned the paint job that could confuse people or using same name is nowhere near as prevalent. The IM10 shaft from PX could probably fall into that category. Obviously the ventus shaft because of the name but fujikura has velocore labeled near the tip to distinguish them and also lists the specs on their site for people to see. Depending on the person they may say the same about the tensei line. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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1 hour ago, IONEPUTT said:

You state that you think most factory installed shaft are pretty good and are playable as they come. That can be true some times, but NOT always. Here is a true story that might just change your mind. 

A few years ago I was in a golf store looking for a spare driver to go with my Cleveland Launcher 460 Comp. I found TWO 460 Comps in the used rack, one looking like NEW, and the other WELL WORN. The shaft factory shaft of the same weight and flex in both. Only difference was the condition and price. I picked up both and headed to the launch monitor to see what each would do. After warming up a little I hit the pretty looking one and got a BIG slice out of it just about EVERY time I hit it. Looks great, performed like garbage. Then I hit to worn out driver and hit EVERY ball pretty much straight and down the middle 90 % of the time. Looks terrible, performs GREAT. So the question was spend $35 for the ugly driver that I could hit great, or pay $50 for the pretty driver that hit a great big slice? What I did was I got BOTH of them and did a test. When I got home I pulled the shaft from the pretty driver, did a Spine alignment followed by a FLO alignment and then re-installed the shaft  back in the head. Two days later I went to the range and tested both driver again. This time the ugly driver was again a good, well behaved driver. Long and Straight. When I re=tested the pretty driver with the bad attitude and a love for slicing the ball, IT TOO, was giving me nice performance, with NO SLICE in sight. That pretty driver that most likely was NOT hit much went from a slick machine to a fairway finder, with nothing more than a proper alignment and installation of the factory shaft. 

End of this story is that I removed the chipped paint form the head of the ugly driver and repainted it to look like new, only a different color. The Pretty driver now has a new after market shaft in it, as does the re-finished one, and are my two back up drivers should I ever need them. I also loan them out from time to time to a playing partner in need of a good driver. Once they hit either of these two old drivers they learn what a good driver can do for them, and more often than not they ask me to build them a new toy for their bag. 

That is quite interesting! 

Most of what I hot has been fine. Then again, I play mostly component stuff and build my own stuff. I do hit some factory clubs from time to time and they have been fine. Just bought a PING G425lst 3 wood and the PING tour 65 shafts was just fine even though it was a flex too soft. I definitely preferred my Xcaliber Avalon 6S in it, but could have gamed the stock shaft. 

Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting story.

Titleist TSI3 8°, Xcaliber Avalon 6 tour stiff, tipped 1", D3 surefit and H2, D5 SW, 45 3/8", PING G425 LST 3 wood, set at 13.5° Xcaliber Avalon T6*, tipped 1 1/4" 43 1/2", D4, Maltby KE4 FDI 19° (bent to 17°)Modus 120S 3 iron shaft,

Maltby TS-1 irons, Modus 120X soft stepped once, 4-6, Dynamic Gold Sensicore x100 7-pw, D4, 2° flat

Cleveland RTX Zipcore wedges, black satin, 50°, 54°, 58°

Ping TR series Anser 5, 33", 2° flat, 1.5° strong

Tp5x pix

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My experience with Club Champion continues to get worse.   Daily calls and email telling me how bad of a decision I am making not to go with them and their 43% price over direct.   In addition telling me how going to another fitter was a mistake and the clubs will 1000% not perform as well CCs build.    It is one thing to stand behind your product another to tell the customer they are completely wrong and are wasting money.   The other club fitting was by a local who has been doing it 40 years and only does club fittings.    His tips on my swing and stance alone of improved my iron play greatly with my old clubs.  

 

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On 8/12/2021 at 9:07 AM, SD1199 said:

My experience with Club Champion continues to get worse.   Daily calls and email telling me how bad of a decision I am making not to go with them and their 43% price over direct.   In addition telling me how going to another fitter was a mistake and the clubs will 1000% not perform as well CCs build.    It is one thing to stand behind your product another to tell the customer they are completely wrong and are wasting money.   The other club fitting was by a local who has been doing it 40 years and only does club fittings.    His tips on my swing and stance alone of improved my iron play greatly with my old clubs.  

 

I went to a driver fitting here in Denver at CC. I wanted to test the then new TPT shaft that was used by a few tour players to win about 6 Tour events. I hit 4 of the TPT shafts, of different flexs. From R flex to XS Tour flex. After the fitting the fitter recommended that I get the S flex with a Mid Torque rating. I do not know why exactly, but it did give me 2 more total yards than the XS did, and a 1.5 smash factor compared to 1.49 for the XS. The XS did give me 2 more yards of carry, and a more consistent ball flight as every ball I hit with the XS had the same trejectory. When I got home I looked at the Trackman data and saw that with the S flex shaft I hit 50% of the fairways, with 50% off to the right into the rough. With the XS shaft I hit 80% of the fairways and an overall shot pattern that was 1/2 the size of what the S flex gave me. ONE thing the fitter did NOT take into account is that those 50% misses landed in the rough. and when that happens, you get "Much less" roll out so the Total yards for the fairways missed shots was way off, as the Trackman unit does NOT factor in where the ball lands in how much roll you get. So those 2 extra yards of total distance was NOT CORRECT at all. 

After looking at the Trackman data, I sent a copy of the data to the head of shaft design at TPT, and then called him a little later. He completely agreed with me that the XS was by far the better shaft fit for me based on both longer carry and a much tighter shot pattern with 80% fairways hit compared to only 50% with the S flex. He also agreed with me that even through my swing speed was NOT in the 115+ MPH range that the XS flex shaft is designed for, my results spoke for themself. MORE carry, more consistent ball flight, and more fairways hit due to a shot pattern half the size, wins out every time. 

After talking to the TPT guy, they sent me both shafts to test in my driver. As we both expected, I got much better results with the XS shaft in my driver than I did with the S flex shaft with higher torque rating. Bottom line for me is that a LOWER torque shaft works best for me every time out. I ended up sending the S flex back to TPT with a big thinks for their help. 

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  • 2 months later...

My experience with CC was a disaster!  They are a bunch of poorly trained amateurs!  Some of them just kids from the golf department at Dick’s. They’re there to sell you overpriced stuff promising game improvement. When that doesn’t happen they say we don’t guarantee that!  No refund because they’re custom clubs.  They charge a lot for the fitting, heads and add on for shafts and grips then they try to sell you some shaft alignment thing they call spining which should be included.  

My clubs were made with the wrong shafts and wrong epoxy and failed 3 times before they figured it out! I spoke to another club fitter and he instantly said they used the wrong shaft. Finally get them functional and no real improvement in performance and actually lost distance!  They blame it on me but I hit my 15 year old clubs as good or better than the new ones.  Huge disappointment and waste of time and money.

My recommendation is find a more experienced local club fitter with good references.  Stay away from these guys!  There are better options out there! Do your research!

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They used to sell pro line clubs ONLY in golf course pro shops, and the guy helping you out was the club professional who ran the shop and more importantly, went through PGA of America certification.  

Perhaps all changes weren't for the best going by Franmangolfer13's accounts.  

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BostonSal said:

They used to sell pro line clubs ONLY in golf course pro shops, and the guy helping you out was the club professional who ran the shop and more importantly, went through PGA of America certification.  

Perhaps all changes weren't for the best going by Franmangolfer13's accounts.  

 

PGA certification of America, current class A pga professionals doesn’t guarantee anything. Certified fitters. Certifications are just a piece of paper that indicate you met the requirements to get the paper. It’s more about the person who received that paper and how they go about learning and applying what they learn in the field and grow.

I see it in the IT field a lot and there’s enough stories and reviews about bad fitters and teachers who have a certifications.

Certification names may have changed, qualifications for getting them may have changed but wasn’t hasnt changed is it still takes a competent person to execute the job.

I know plenty of people in golf and other industries that don’t have any of the certifications and/or degrees that are smarter and better in their professions than those with all the fancy papers 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 10/15/2021 at 8:13 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

PGA certification of America, current class A pga professionals doesn’t guarantee anything. Certified fitters. Certifications are just a piece of paper that indicate you met the requirements to get the paper. It’s more about the person who received that paper and how they go about learning and applying what they learn in the field and grow.

I see it in the IT field a lot and there’s enough stories and reviews about bad fitters and teachers who have a certifications.

Certification names may have changed, qualifications for getting them may have changed but wasn’t hasnt changed is it still takes a competent person to execute the job.

I know plenty of people in golf and other industries that don’t have any of the certifications and/or degrees that are smarter and better in their professions than those with all the fancy papers 

Perhaps.  I liked the old way better, but I do realize that if enough other people did, it would still exist.

For myself, I'm sad to see the on-course pro shop become mostly a polo shirt and cap shop with the name brands willing to sell their stuff at Dick's.  I'm also sad to see MacGregor, Spalding, and Wilson become Callaway. Ping. and TaylorMade.

I also understand that times change and that I'm not always going to be happy with it.  I manage to make it work, however.

I'm still plying.   

As for degrees, certificates, and certifications, though, it's the people without them who tend to belittle them the most.  

 

 

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51 minutes ago, BostonSal said:

As for degrees, certificates, and certifications, though, it's the people without them who tend to belittle them the most.  

Never seen this and in my experience it’s the other way around. It’s predominantly “I have x,y,z degree, certification, credential and you don’t”

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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"Certified Fitters" simply mean that they've read OEM sales brochures and can repeat back the information to customers.

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:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X

:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 - Tour AD 95X

:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW OBAN CT 115X(-)

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18 minutes ago, jlukes said:

"Certified Fitters" simply mean that they've read OEM sales brochures and can repeat back the information to customers.

I’m sure CC has some great fitters, but the (young) guy I had didn’t know much of anything beyond the (statistically suspect) Club Champion fitting script - and my (driver) fitting was a failure as a result. Hindsight is a wonderful thing… [I won’t rehash the experience again]

I hope I can find a competent fitter the next time I want new clubs (in a couple years), but it won’t be at Club Champion.

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On 3/16/2020 at 5:52 AM, Mr. 82 said:

So I am staying with my sister for 10 days here near Asheville, NC, and I checked and not only is there Top Golf in Greenville, SC an hour away 😛 but there is also a Club Champion in both Charlotte and Greenville, each within an easy drive, which definitely wasn't the case where I live in Tallahassee.

I've been considering seeing them to see if there is a better option for both my PING G400 driver and fairway club then the standard stock shaft in both.  From everything I've seen with Club Champion their goal is to evaluate every club by select manufacturers to find the one that is best for you.  But what if I life the clubs I currently have and just want to see if there is a better shaft that might perhaps increase distance in both clubs?  Is that something I can stipulate up front with them?

Also, I noticed a fitting session for those two clubs alone is $200 (they have a 33% discount, so that would soften the blow a bit).  That's a lot of money to me, but if I can go in there and have them evaluate everything with my driver and fairway club and find some improvement, distance wise, then I am definitely interested.  I just don't know if it would be worth the investment, especially since I am sort of straying from their conventional fitting model in that I want to keep my current clubs and just see if the shafts can be upgraded to something better.

Anyone have any thoughts on all of this?  Anyone do a club champion fitting and can offer me some advice, tips, or suggestions before committing to it?

Club Champion should have lots of shafts to fit your G400 driver, so you should be able to try a lot of shafts to see what works for YOU. That's what I did a few years ago. We used their Ping G400 Max head and tried a few shafts to see what worked best for me. I was NOT looking for MORE distance from the shafts, but More ACCURACY for more fairways hit. More distance is always nice as a bonus, but getting a tighter shot pattern for more fairways is way more important for a better score and more fun on the course. At least it is for me. 

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