Is Club Champion worth it?

[BostonSal 567]

There is a Club Champion in Bedford, Massachusetts, about thirty miles northwest of Boston.

I wouldn't normally have much to do there, but they were the only venue in the area available with the great Epon driving iron heads.

Now it appears that they have Edel clubheads as well.  I have no idea where else I might see them. 

I find the SMS C-Grind wedges to be very interesting based on early reviews.

 

Even in this era, I'm old timey enough to really like matched sets.   The difference is that now, it would likely be three sets.

HL-1,  5, 7, 9-woods (based on modern club-numbering protocols)

5, 6, 7, 8, 9-irons    (with 42° 9-iron)

48, 54, 60° wedges

 

The only two individual clubs would be specialty driving iron and putter.

 

I have already engaged one of our MGS friends on the subject of these Edel wedges, and from the discourse, I came to understand that the Edel C-grind really lets the player get the leading edge down to a tight lie.  Therein lies my interest.

 

Club Champion, if nothing else, apparently allows for more customization with normally direct-to-consumer brands like Hogan and Edel.  For my needs, that would be a plus.

 

 

[Stan Watson 2]

Absolutely NOT worth it.   Club Champions Bedford, MA.  I bought a set of irons and I am so disgusted with them that I dumped them in the secondary market.   High cost for the lesson learned.  The price of the custom irons was double the manufacturers retail price.

Went through the process.  Found a shaft.   Found a head.  Hitting the 6 iron demo with a consistent 1.47 smash factor.  Sold!   An independent fitter later told me that is not possible for me with a six iron in real life.  So, it looks like a Carnival Game to me in hindsight.  Someone hit the power boost button on the Trackman?  And the real club was 30 yards short of the demo.  

Long story short, after three tries they could not get the weight and the swingweight of the assembled club to match the demo club.  They poured tungsten and epoxy down the shaft and turned that into a piece of rebar with no flex at all.

I'm out!

Edited December 29, 2021 by Stan Watson

[RickyBobby_PR 10,146]

Still seeing lots of I’ll informed consumers blaming the fitter, the company, both and not taking any responsibility for their lack of research into 1) the fitting process, 2) the business model of club champion 3) research on the fitter 4) their decision to purchase clubs from them 5) potentially their lack of feedback before during or after the fitting process 

Every fitter gets a baseline of what a persons clubs do. You should have the data at that point of what your club does and how it relates to what you see on the course and if it’s close or not, then be able to see the data presented during/after the fitting and see how they performed in distance, dispersion and feel.  If you didn’t again that’s on the consumer as much as the fitter/location 

and yes their agenda is to sell clubs like any other place that offers that service but it’s also not a requirement to buy from them after a fitting. They are two separate services and have their own associated costs

[Middler 3,774]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Still seeing lots of I’ll informed consumers blaming the fitter, the company, both and not taking any responsibility for their lack of research into 1) the fitting process, 2) the business model of club champion 3) research on the fitter 4) their decision to purchase clubs from them 5) potentially their lack of feedback before during or after the fitting process 

Every fitter gets a baseline of what a persons clubs do. You should have the data at that point of what your club does and how it relates to what you see on the course and if it’s close or not, then be able to see the data presented during/after the fitting and see how they performed in distance, dispersion and feel.  If you didn’t again that’s on the consumer as much as the fitter/location 

and yes their agenda is to sell clubs like any other place that offers that service but it’s also not a requirement to buy from them after a fitting. They are two separate services and have their own associated costs

As a blanket statement that's pure BS, but you're entitled to your POV. Choosing a fitter is kinda like choosing an investment advisor, by the time you know enough to pick a good one yourself - you probably don't need one. And like some/many investment advisors, some fitters don't know what they're doing including Club Champion, there's no way a well intended newbie can know in advance. I know several people who've gone to Club Champion and got zero results despite spending a fortune. I'd love to know what percentage of people who go hoping to improve their scoring, end up with an improvement - but we'll never see that. Some people won't benefit at all going to a fitter, they're unlikely to know, but some posters here recommend fittings to almost everyone. That's all I object to...

For the umpteenth time, we disagree on this. No problem.

[funkyjudge 244]

As a Professional Clubfitter with 32 years experience and thousands of happy fitting customers, my answer is an emphatic "NO!"  I have seen far too many really crappy fitting results that have come out of three different Club Champion locations within 80 miles of where I live and do my fitting work.  One or two (or even three) bad fittings may be expected, but when the number is in the 20s or 30s, it's far from a coincidence, IMHO.

[RickyBobby_PR 10,146]

53 minutes ago, Middler said:

As a blanket statement that's pure BS, but you're entitled to your POV. Choosing a fitter is kinda like choosing an investment advisor, by the time you know enough to pick a good one yourself - you probably don't need one. And like some/many investment advisors, some fitters don't know what they're doing including Club Champion, there's no way a well intended newbie can know in advance. I know several people who've gone to Club Champion and got zero results despite spending a fortune. I'd love to know what percentage of people who go hoping to improve their scoring, end up with an improvement - but we'll never see that. Some people won't benefit at all going to a fitter, they're unlikely to know, but some posters here recommend fittings to almost everyone. That's all I object to...

For the umpteenth time, we disagree on this. No problem.

Improving scoring is more than just having fitted clubs. As we see in other threads getting instruction doesn’t lead to that. Having properly fit clubs enable the person to not have to make their swing work for the equipment but for the equipment to compliment their swing. Bad decisions in a golf course can lead to a bad score just as can a bad swing. To many factors go into lowering scores than fitted equipment. Too many golfers have a misunderstanding of what a fitting is for and then complain about whatever instead o holding themselves accountable.

In todays world there’s a ton of information at one’s fingertips to not be able to do research on a business to see how they operate. Or in the case of golf to not be able to find reviews about a certain fitter, instructor, golf school, fitting/club building location. Newbie or not the information is out there for one to find.

if someone hits clubs in a fitting and likes them there and they do what they want them to do then struggles for whatever reason once they get them that’s as much on the person as it is the fitter or builder, unless things are way off from what they hit in the fitting. 
 

[HDTVMAN 167]

Bottom line...Club Champion can fit you into the correct club, shaft, and grip. They know what they're doing. Big Box stores employ "fitters" with no training or experience...some just left Taco Bell or McDonald's, and are paid $9-$10/hr. Is that who you want to fit you and take your $600 for a driver. Big Box store managers don't care what you buy, as long as you buy something. Stay away from Big Box's except for accessories.

[KenBender 5]

I was fit for my new set at the Club Champion in west LA this past spring.
I went in with an open mind(that was the hardest part) and no loyalty to any one brand, I just wanted the best performing clubs for my swing. The fitter was very knowledgeable and helped me find the perfect set of clubs. It wasn’t cheap for the full set(fitting and purchase) but I play a lot and have played golf since I was about 5yrs old(I’m 52 now), that being said my swing is far from perfect because before the pandemic I had taken a break from golf for about 4 years  

The CC experience was eye opening and really showed me how the head and shaft combinations are crucial to finding the correct clubs for my swing, I’ve always wondered if I was using the best shafts for my swing and going to CC gave me the opportunity to test just about every shaft that was available which is an overwhelming task. I tested five different brands of heads and about six or seven different shaft manufacturers and different models of shafts for each of those companies. In the end I am hitting my irons almost two club lengths longer and all with a much tighter and consistent dispersion pattern. The 3w and hybrid are amazing, and I’m still working at getting more consistent with my driver. I went with off the shelf Vokey wedges but might get the matching shafts added eventually.
 

In the end it was a great experience and very beneficial to my game.

Hopefully my story helps. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by KenBender

[Middler 3,774]

On 12/29/2021 at 4:57 PM, KenBender said:

I was fit for my new set at the Club Champion in west LA this past spring.
I went in with an open mind(that was the hardest part) and no loyalty to any one brand, I just wanted the best performing clubs for my swing. The fitter was very knowledgeable and helped me find the perfect set of clubs. It wasn’t cheap for the full set(fitting and purchase) but I play a lot and have played golf since I was about 5yrs old(I’m 52 now), that being said my swing is far from perfect because before the pandemic I had taken a break from golf for about 4 years  

The CC experience was eye opening and really showed me how the head and shaft combinations are crucial to finding the correct clubs for my swing, I’ve always wondered if I was using the best shafts for my swing and going to CC gave me the opportunity to test just about every shaft that was available which is an overwhelming task. I tested five different brands of heads and about six or seven different shaft manufacturers and different models of shafts for each of those companies. In the end I am hitting my irons almost two club lengths longer and all with a much tighter and consistent dispersion pattern. The 3w and hybrid are amazing, and I’m still working at getting more consistent with my driver. I went with off the shelf Vokey wedges but might get the matching shafts added eventually.
 

In the end it was a great experience and very beneficial to my game.

Hopefully my story helps. 

It's a great story, and CC has most certainly helped fit many (mostly better) players. And it makes perfect sense for a 7 HI with a highly repeatable swing.

The problem with these threads is while CC makes a lot of sense for players with highly repeatable swings and/or players who really do understand exactly what fitting can and can't do - as CC won't tell you that more often than not if you're a first time customer. I have seen people here on countless threads recommend fittings with no caveats whatsoever to players with 15, 20 and even 30 HI who ask about fittings as a means to improve their scoring - that's a disservice to at least some if not many. I know CC has turned some people away saying 'honestly we can't help you, your current clubs are a decent fit' - but that's pretty rare IME.

And CC is way more likely to recommend custom shafts, at much greater expense, than to fit you for any of the variety of standard shafts many OEM club makers offer. There are enough standard shaft options with most OEM club makers these days, the very few of us need custom shafts at a considerable premium.

[ChiefMikeOfficer 690]

7 hours ago, Middler said:

It's a great story, and CC has most certainly helped fit many (mostly better) players. And it makes perfect sense for a 7 HI with a highly repeatable swing.

The problem with these threads is while CC makes a lot of sense for players with highly repeatable swings and/or players who really do understand exactly what fitting can and can't do - as CC won't tell you that more often than not if you're a first time customer. I have seen people here on countless threads recommend fittings with no caveats whatsoever to players with 15, 20 and even 30 HI who ask about fittings as a means to improve their scoring - that's a disservice to at least some if not many. I know CC has turned some people away saying 'honestly we can't help you, your current clubs are a decent fit' - but that's pretty rare IME.

And CC is way more likely to recommend custom shafts, at much greater expense, than to fit you for any of the variety of standard shafts many OEM club makers offer. There are enough standard shaft options with most OEM club makers these days, the very few of us need custom shafts at a considerable premium.

100% agree. Fitting is important to get your best results, but it does expect consistency.

CC worked out pretty well for me in a couple fittings from '17-'19 -- but over the last ~10 years, I've been between a 2-5 index and my swing speed and path haven't fluctuated much (although in the last couple years I've made some tweaks that might be getting some speed back, and I'm now getting better results from stiffer shafts than what I bought from CC). 

But... For a higher handicap casual golfer that is cool with where they're at, they could still be using bad equipment and a fitting can still help, but might not be worth the cost for a CC fitting/club purchase. For someone just starting out or a higher handicap with goals to improve...a fitting will give them positive results, but might become obsolete pretty quickly, and "following the fittings" might require a giant budget. When friends ask me for advice on what clubs they should buy, that's one of the things I ask -- if it's someone that is dedicated to getting better and taking lessons soon, I recommend something that's a step or two ahead of where they currently stand, and give them a goal of catching up with their clubs (especially if I see the potential in their swing - at that stage, swing speeds can increase pretty quickly). If they went to CC, they'd pay a lot for something that might only work for a few months. 

[Middler 3,774]

^^ Most high handicap, infrequent or beginning players would be better served on a value basis buying off the rack clubs - given most OEM club makers now offer a considerable range of shafts - with a small or zero premium cost. It's not as if the off the rack clubs fit no one, they fit a lot of people. Club Champion or the like want to sell you custom shafts, and resist/refuse fitting you to the shafts OEMs offer at no upcharge. e.g. Mizuno irons can be ordered with any of 27 shafts, only 5 with any upcharge. The number of players who really need to pay as much as twice as much for a Club Champion custom shaft over the best fit shaft from Mizuno is (very) small.

When I went to Club Champion they recommended a $950 Mavrik driver - that's simply absurd. And there's no doubt in my mind my driving stats would have gotten worse had I bought the driver they recommended (I won't rehash that story).

The problem is, it is harder to find the fitters who can help you pick the best OEM offered shafts, I'd start with the manufactures.

[RickyBobby_PR 10,146]

Contrary to thoughts in this thread 

1) CC, TXG, TruSoec prices for fittings are no different than what local fitters charge. Most places charge $90+ per hour for fittings

2) Places like this offer the golfer the ability to be fit into whatever shaft works for their swing within their budget to include shafts that aren’t in a brands matrix. 
 

3) Yes the business model for these specialty fitters is to sell high end shafts. No different than high end jewelry stores selling high end watches or any other luxury brand. If you tell them them you only want stock/no upcharge options CC will fit you to them. Other places usually don’t but that’s their business model. Do your research going in and you won’t be shocked

4) there’s lots of opinion in here that are being used to justify peoples experiences good or bad but they aren’t based in truth and reality.  Many are just biased based on their experiences or perceptions. People really should spend time talking to fitters and instructor. They will both tell you that amateurs swings are more consistent and repeatable than people believe. They will also tell you that waiting til after someone finishes taking lessons isn’t the best time to get fit. Making compensations because of equipment can derail the lessons and a persons swing and progress

5) just like lessons and improving the golf swing doesn’t guarantee lower scores, well fitted clubs don’t either. They also don’t guarantee a bad shot will never be hit. They are tools that give the golfer the ability to eliminate variables in the game and to have the best chance to execute the swing they are trying to make.

People don’t want to take responsibility that their actions and the time and effort they put into the game will determine the results they get.

[RickyBobby_PR 10,146]

If you don’t think peoples including high handicappers have repeatable swings just look at all the swings posted in the various threads and see how their swings are pretty much the same over several months of posting even when working on drills on their own with no instruction

[RollingGreens 2,413]

On 12/29/2021 at 4:45 PM, HDTVMAN said:

Bottom line...Club Champion can fit you into the correct club, shaft, and grip. They know what they're doing. Big Box stores employ "fitters" with no training or experience...some just left Taco Bell or McDonald's, and are paid $9-$10/hr. Is that who you want to fit you and take your $600 for a driver. Big Box store managers don't care what you buy, as long as you buy something. Stay away from Big Box's except for accessories.

I would agree that big box stores probably aren’t equipped to do a fitting equal to what a club champion/golf tec/ or TXG would perform. To counter your argument, you would say that a fitter from CC who fitted my friend who was brand new to the game of golf with shafts 1-1.5 inches shorter than standard knows what they’re doing? Then had the audacity to sell them different shafts 6 months later again when my friend went back to have them fix the issue. They told my friend his original fitter had left for performance related issues. Sounds like something in the level of a big box store if you ask me. Too many stories on this and other forums about how CC has screwed up orders to give them unreasonable approval. 

[Middler 3,774]

Wonder why only about 1 in 4 MGS readers fitted at Club Champion would recommend CC to their friends or colleagues? Whereas 3 in 5 would recommend the manufacturers - where there is little or no upcharge for the variety of shafts they offer. Club Champion will cost you considerably more, could easily be 2X.

https://mygolfspy.com/2021-driver-satisfaction-survey-results/

• Golfers who get fitted at manufacturer-owned facilities are most satisfied.
• Cool Clubs leads among custom fitting locations while True Spec and on-course aren’t far behind.
• Club Champion is an outlier among custom-fitting chains.

Respondents who were fitted at Club Champion locations were less likely to recommend it and there were significantly more detractors. I’d love to dig into this more to understand the reasons behind lower satisfaction levels. Anecdotally, friends who have visited Club Champion have specifically mentioned heavy upselling leaving a bad taste.

[Oudefart 18]

On 12/29/2021 at 1:45 PM, HDTVMAN said:

Bottom line...Club Champion can fit you into the correct club, shaft, and grip. They know what they're doing. Big Box stores employ "fitters" with no training or experience...some just left Taco Bell or McDonald's, and are paid $9-$10/hr. Is that who you want to fit you and take your $600 for a driver. Big Box store managers don't care what you buy, as long as you buy something. Stay away from Big Box's except for accessories.

I have to take exception to this. Full disclosure I work at a big box store.

Like any other business the quality of your interaction is in: (1) the person you work with (2) your level of knowledge, discussion, and questions.

We are provided a LOT of deep dive information/training from the OEMs, and the ability to demo most everything. It is my job to learn the stuff. Some of us love it, the industry and all things golf, others don't take the time. If you came to our store and of the 10 fitters there, you'll obviously get 10 different experiences. Your job is to know what you're trying to accomplish and if someone is meeting your needs or not.

The one place a big box store admittedly may fall short is that we're subject to the offerings of the OEM fitting carts. It's my job to know that stuff inside out, but granted it's not all the possible options.

I have fit an awful lot of really good players of the last 5+ yrs and have forged relationships with a handful of local PGA Class-A pros that refer their students to me.

Again, we're not all the options, but for the vast majority out there, we're certainly a viable option for more than just accessories. I don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement that we're akin to burger flippers who don't know anything. Also not to mention the clientele that we get who come in and know "way" more than we do because they read the internet. It goes both ways.

[Dog Faced Pony Soldier 32]

CC includes three one-hour sessions in a hitting bay, and free loft and lie fittings/adjustments for a year. This undeniably has value.

[Golfspy_CG2 33,963]

I'll just post this hear and leave the comments to everyone else

Ok, I lied. You'll either find it an informative or "entertaining" read...LOL

https://clubchampiongolf.com/blog/

[Madboy76 12]

No experience with CC specifically, but have gone through fitting like theirs.  Here why I'm staying away from those type of sessions.  no matter how you're swinging, the fitter is going to start trying to fit you into something.  That's their job.  If your strikes aren't in line with your norm, the data is useless.  Norm is not perfection.  You should see what happens on bad hits, but if they're all bad it wouldn't help you. 

Simulator numbers help but don't represent real shots on a course.  A driver might yield more distance on a monitor, but that might result in more missed fairways in real golf. 

Ideally we'd like to see results of a club change over time (good days and bad days) not just one hour of hitting which often turns into a long drive
competition against yourself.

My other issue is that you don't know the fitter and the fitter doesn't know you.  The information is what they're given at that point in time.  So they can't really talk to your game because they don't know it.  They're trying to develop an idea to give you a recommendation for clubs.  I'd much rather see a fitter who has some relationship with you, so they can speak intelligently about recommendations for you knowing your tendencies and faults. 

It's unfortunately very hard to find the place where you can take clubs out for a round to test them unless you're a member at a private club. 

[Dog Faced Pony Soldier 32]

8 hours ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

I'll just post this hear and leave the comments to everyone else

Ok, I lied. You'll either find it an informative or "entertaining" read...LOL

https://clubchampiongolf.com/blog/

Thank you for sharing.

 
I am a happy CC customer; and I do think CC is “worth it,” but the quote screenshot I attached is an outright lie. MAP is about advertising and NOT a rule stating what a retailer is allowed to sell a product for. Actually it’s illegal (in the US at least) for anyone to tell anyone what they have to charge for a product. That’s why MSRP is Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. CC could literally sell their goods for whatever price they want. They just can’t ADVERTISE any price below MAP. If this lie we’re true MAP would necessarily be MSP (Minimum Sale Price). What kind of fool does this person think we are? Added facepalm is CC doesn’t even advertise prices for components as far as I’ve ever seen.

The irony here is this blog post was supposed to make their customers and potential customers feel better about the CC  instead, now I’m seeing them try and BS people. Big fail CC! 

Edited February 11 by Dog Faced Pony Soldier