Thoughts about Driver Fittings

[Tony79]

Greetings.  Wanted to get others' thoughts on this.  I had a driver fitting last August at our local Club Champion store.  It was a good experience.  I liked the guys who run the store.  I might be in the minority, but I am in the camp that these driver fittings are somewhat overrated.  I used to play an Epic driver with I think a 55 gram shaft.  I am 62 years old and have a swing speed of 97.   I play with a lot of younger, really good guys who just smash it, and like everyone else I would like to hit it farther.  I go through the fitting and end up with a Mizuno driver and a shaft that in theory added a few yards but, at least on the monitor, my spin rate came down dramatically, but as we all know, we don't play on a launch monitor.  

To make a long story short, when I hit it well, it does go farther and is better into the wind.  My issue is I don't hit it well most of the time.  In January I was in Naples hitting balls at the driving range close to Fiddlers' Creek.  Maybe some of you have been there.  There was a guy demoing Yonex Drivers which you pretty much can't find in the US.  On a whim I hit one and My God I smashed like 10 out of 12 balls right in the center.  Of course it's hard to tell on the driving range.  I've continued to struggle with so last week I actually found the exact Yonex driver I hit in FL on Ebay so I bought it and got it last Friday.  I played with it in 36 degree weather on Sunday and, while I did not hit it quite as far, I hit it markedly more consistently - night and day really.  

My theory with these driver fittings is that if you are REALLY good and have smash factor consistently about probably 1.45, I think these fittings probably really help.  I am starting to think the problem is, yes, IF you hit it perfectly there is probably a driver that will max you potential - 13 degree launch rate, 2,200 spin, etc., but how many of us hit it perfectly.  I would rather have a driver that might spin more than a perfect number than I can hit straight and consistently.  For me, I've concluded that I need shaft that I would describe as "softer" and some would call more "spinny."  The other issue is these fittings are not cheap. I bought this Yonex driver for $300.00.  A Club Champion driver fitting is WAY more expensive than that.  It will be interesting to see if that Yonex was Hawthorne effect.  I don't think so and am looking forward to hitting it when it warms up, that is if any of us can go outside!  

Curious what others think.  Thanks  

 

 

[cnosil]

Some see driver fittings as overrated,  some think indoor fittings are a waste of time, and others love the idea.   Your 97 MPG swing speed is pretty good for your age so you are doing well there.  In my opinion, driver fittings are not just for people that hit the center,  drivers need to be fit to your miss as well.  Some drivers work best for high toe,  others heel, etc.  

As for the two drivers,  are they the same length,  same swingweight, and same total weight?    Most of todays drivers are pretty long and people find that shorter drivers increase center hits and as a result increase ball speed and distance.    

As for the cost of club champion,  it has been discussed before and yes purchasing from them is expensive.  However,  there is no requirement to purchase from them and you can often find the same club cheaper through other means. 

[TR1PTIK]

One of the things that amateur golfers need to be mindful of when going through a fitting is consistent club delivery. It's fun to look at ball speed and carry distances (even dispersion), but those are outputs. What does your input look like? We all have bad days and we should do our best to plan for that. I'd add more, but I need to get up and do some stuff around the house. Just know that average numbers may not be the best representation of how the club will perform on the course - standard deviation is probably the thing we should be paying more attention to. Just my two cents.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Fittings imo are far from overrated. People have misperceptions about fittings and therefore tend to come away disappointed. Fittings are to optimize your ball flight and improve dispersion. 
Many are solely focused on numbers and shade them in a fitting vice swinging their normal swing. Fitters sometimes focus to much on the numbers and not enough on the feedback from the golfer and sometimes the golfer doesn’t communicate their feelings/thoughts to the fitter.

i personally don’t care for indoor fittings because there is no way to see true ball flight and how the ball reacts with different contact points and spin rates. I would have to have a good trust in the fitter like Ian from TXG to do an indoor fitting. I also prefer to not know my numbers to avoid changing my swing but compare what I’m seeing to what I’m used to or expect. I try to tell the fitter after each shot or couple shots what I feel and where contact was and let them use the numbers to help make changes and to chat about how numbers look on that contact point.

Spin is both good and bad. Too much or too light based on launch, ball speed and you end up with less than optimal distance. There’s a range that’s good for each ball speed and finding the right balance makes a good driver in fitting and playable on the course 

[dlow206]

I haven't found a great fitter yet in-person that can nerd out about shafts with me. 

[JonMUSC08]

If you are paying $300+ for a fitting, mentally you have already exceeded what you expect to get out of it. I was custom fit by a top100 fitter for $75 and they did an excellent job. They let me take my top 2 clubs to the driving range and hit outdoors too.

Personally, i do not hit well on indoor simulators. I need to see the ball flight in person and hit on real grass. Maybe seeing the #'s make me want to change my swing too. Finding a demo day or an outdoor fitter would be ideal in your case. Hit 3-5 balls and they can dial in the optimal angles, shaft, etc after each set.

With the number of shaft offerings these days (by the major brands), about 80-90% of golfers will perform very well in. There are very few that require a premium shaft.

[TShaffer]

Hey all, new to the forums, but I like this topic a lot. Personally I have never been fit for any club. As much as I love the finer points of equipment I just can't afford to go out and buy a new set, even if they can be found cheap second hand.

That being said, I have been playing with my driver on my own recently. I game a 2014 big Bertha driver and my miss is a slice that seems to go farther left (I'm a lefty) than it does out. I had the perimeter weight set at the strongest draw setting, the shaft in the draw setting...the club head at address was more closed than some countries are in the current crisis.

Nothing helped

So I started researching and finally cut my driver down 2 inches and added some weight to the club head. I still have a draw biased setup, but now I can aim down the right side of the fairway and hit a consistent baby fade instead of aiming 30 yards into the right rough.

I guess I say all of this to point out that there are things you can do on your own to maximize your current equipment. As much as I know a fitting would be beneficial, I do feel that it is more a fine tune procedure than a huge overhaul. I was so inconsistent before I made my changes that I don't think a driver fitting would have helped as much as it could. 

Now that I am more consistent I feel like a driver fitting will produce more meaningful dividends instead of just masking a greater issue...and it cost exactly $0 to cut and regrip my shaft vs the hundreds it woul cost to get fit and buy new gear.

[juspoole]

I hear what you are saying.   I feel as though I understand enough about shafts that I can usually come up with a fairly decent fit for my swing and game.  My iron game is by far the best part of my game and I consistently hit 11 - 13 greens per round.  Putting and Driver are usually what get me in the most trouble and where I lose strokes.  I've found from the past with my irons that I can use just about anything and after I get a feel for the distances and weighting of them, I can adjust and still be pretty good.  I went through several fittings over the years and have tried the demo days where they do what I would call a "Quick Fitting".   I did also get my Mizunos fit via trackman at a local custom golf shop (They do not charge for this service either). I knew I wanted the MP 18 SC so it was just down to shaft.  To my amazement there was a large difference in 6 iron from 8 yards carry in some cases and vastly different spin numbers.   I was able to settle on my current set up even though the Nippon Modus felt much better because of those differences.  The nice thing about that was it was outdoors so I could see the differences in ball flight.  

In January of 2019, I did a full bag fitting at Club Champion because it was half off regular price and I was curious about all of the shafts.  I preface this with saying that I think a playing demo or even being outside on the range is a far better fitting environment because when hitting into a screen, it frees you up so much more and for me that leads to much better swings and results.  However, through trying different shafts and club head options and moving weighting around, my dispersion decreased significantly during the session.  I ended up finding the same club options - a TS3 with a Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec shaft for around $150 all in after I sold previous driver and shaft.  (Will never understand why people pay club champion for clubs.)   After a year, it has been better.  No where near how tight I was hitting in the fitting, but apart from a few really bad rounds,  I had a good driving year for me.  I  didn't hit a ton more fairways, but my misses were not 40 yards either way. 

To your point about fittings being best for better players, I would almost argue the other way around and say that for better players, they will find the fitting process to be less useful.  I think a guy that's maybe a 10 or higher handicap can benefit most in the majority of cases (you certainly have guys that drive it excellent, but have other parts of the game that cause issue).  I say this because those players are more inconsistent in finding the center of the face so dispersion in distance and direction are much higher.  If they can find a shaft/head combo that works, it may not increase distance that much, but it will vastly improve their averages similar to your Yonex that you have found.  It's possible you were just a bit more lucky or more knowledgeable than your average golfer so you could find a good combo.  

[tony@CIC]

Hey all, new to the forums, but I like this topic a lot. Personally I have never been fit for any club. As much as I love the finer points of equipment I just can't afford to go out and buy a new set, even if they can be found cheap second hand.
That being said, I have been playing with my driver on my own recently. I game a 2014 big Bertha driver and my miss is a slice that seems to go farther left (I'm a lefty) than it does out. I had the perimeter weight set at the strongest draw setting, the shaft in the draw setting...the club head at address was more closed than some countries are in the current crisis.
Nothing helped
So I started researching and finally cut my driver down 2 inches and added some weight to the club head. I still have a draw biased setup, but now I can aim down the right side of the fairway and hit a consistent baby fade instead of aiming 30 yards into the right rough.
I guess I say all of this to point out that there are things you can do on your own to maximize your current equipment. As much as I know a fitting would be beneficial, I do feel that it is more a fine tune procedure than a huge overhaul. I was so inconsistent before I made my changes that I don't think a driver fitting would have helped as much as it could. 
Now that I am more consistent I feel like a driver fitting will produce more meaningful dividends instead of just masking a greater issue...and it cost exactly $0 to cut and regrip my shaft vs the hundreds it woul cost to get fit and buy new gear.

As a fellow lefty that had a wicked slice there's an additional element that you should consider - lessons. My drives use to resemble fish hooks. They'd always start out straight then comeback - probably losing 20-30 yards as they turned left. My instructor diagnosed both a swing and grip issue which resolved about 80% of the slices (I now use a stronger grip). Then as an Official Tester for Ping's 410 SFT driver last year I was able to further reduce that slice percentage but not until I got fit. When I ordered the driver I used Ping's online fitting tool (my fitter was booked). The recommendation from the online tool was a standard length S flex shaft. It worked ok. Then I was able to get into the fitter who recommended a 1/2 shorter R flex stock shaft. Between the lessons and the new shaft the slice has all but disappeared.

As a higher handicapper still learning this game, I found the real benefit of a fitter being: narrower dispersion vs. gaining lots of distance. The latter is a nice benefit but shouldn't necessarily be the end all. I especially saw this in my irons where I only gained 5-7 yards but a much narrower grouping of shots. I would imagine that with low handicappers the benefit would be distance first.




Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[DamYankinGA]

I recently realized that all clubs are not created equal and that certain clubs fit certain swings. With that knowledge I decided to overhaul my entire bag a little at a time. I did this by going to one of the nationally known golf stores where they fit you for free and don’t require you to make a purchase. The first few times I went, I worked with who ever greeted me at the door. I soon realized that some knew their stuff better than others. On subsequent trips, I would seek that person out. Where I really got improvement was in the driver fitting. Thanks to MGS, I discovered the importance of launch angle and back spin. My old driver was robbing me of yards. I went and saw the guy I trusted at the nationally known store, and he showed me I was over 5,000 RPM and hitting too high of a launch angle with my old driver. He worked with me for two hours and through 5 different drivers. Some of the drivers we even used multiple shafts.  Did you know the same driver head can give you different results with just a change in shaft? I didn’t.  I ended up with my much loved Ping G410 plus.  The point is, I don’t know if I would pay for a fitting but I highly recommend that you get fitted before spending your hard earned cash on a new driver. My fitting resulted in more yards and according to Arrcos, a 5-10% increase in fairways hit. 

[MALyons31]

Hey Tony!

In my opinion, driver fittings are great. I personally had amazing results. To give you a snap shot of what kind of golfer I am, I’ve only been playing seriously for 3 years, so I’m still working on my driver swing and it definitely is not perfect every time. My swing speed isn’t far off from yours being in the range of 95-100. I went with TruSpec golf for my fitting. It was an indoor-outdoor fitting with a trackman monitor for all the performance specs. I went in with an open mind, not preferring the driver I was to get, was just concerned with performance and I needed something with more distance and of course I wanted to keep it accurate. As a 34 year old guy, I went in to the fitting with a Taylor Made M2 with 56 gram S shaft and only being able to hit it a total of on average 235ish yards. I hit many many different drivers, but by the time I left, I was consistently hitting the ball straighter and MUCH farther, carrying the ball 250 with total distances being in the 260s 270s. 
In my experience with a driver fitting, I think it’s important to actually see the ball fly and not hitting into a net. Also, I think it’s very important to go with a fitter that has many many different brand options whether that be shaft and driver heads. Some places have a limited option and only push curtain brands. In my opinion, with more brands to work with, The better chance you’ll be able to find the right combination of driver and shaft that will work for you. I don’t know if I answered your question, but I hope this helped. Good luck! Remember, you don’t pick the driver, the driver picks you!!

[Fullsendglf]

I am a die hard believer in driving fittings. Actually is fitting for all clubs and even balls. With that being said, the outdoor environments are going to have a drastic effect on the ball flight. So when you were hitting the ball in freezing temperatures, the ball is defiantly not going to fly as far. Regardless of how you strike the face prior to your fitting, getting a fitting is important when purchasing a new club because when you're getting fit, it isn't only about what head your playing or getting fit for. The shaft and grip is just as important. As nicely fit shaft can tighten your precision when striking a golf ball. The shaft should be the first thing your fitter fits you for. From there the head and the numbers that they generate combined with the shaft should be tinkered with to determine the ideal fit. Golf equipment fitting isn't an exact science, but with the tools like trackman and GC quad it makes the job much easier. And you could always go to a pro shop at a course with a trackman and get fit on a range so you can see the actual flights along with the numbers.

[AH1980MN]

This subject can be frustrating for sure, but think of it this way- fittings, club/putter tech, lessons, etc. are generally going to help the less skilled golfers more, not less. There are exceptions, sure, but while a tour pro can hit any club/combo/swing exceptionally well, the lesser skilled of us use these (fittings, lessons, tech) tools to put together a game and equipment that works for us and our abilities. Much more room for improvement on this end.

[RickyBobby_PR]

31 minutes ago, AH1980MN said:

This subject can be frustrating for sure, but think of it this way- fittings, club/putter tech, lessons, etc. are generally going to help the less skilled golfers more, not less. There are exceptions, sure, but while a tour pro can hit any club/combo/swing exceptionally well, the lesser skilled of us use these (fittings, lessons, tech) tools to put together a game and equipment that works for us and our abilities. Much more room for improvement on this end.

It’s as beneficial for the better players. I’ve seen pros say if they can get 3 extra yards on a drive they are taking it and run. They are looking for a ball to be in a certain launch window and for it to fly a certain way. They use fittings and technology in clubs,  shafts, launch monitors, the ball and the club building process to achieve this. A number of pros switched from the prov1x to the Prov1 with the 2017 and 2019 releases because of spin.  

[Micah T]

I’m in favor of driver fittings: I did a lot of research on my own, tried all the new drivers at the local expo, and eliminated a couple before getting on the launch monitor. First to go was the TaylorMade SIM and Cleveland. (TaylorMade clubs all sound like a gun going off to me) After hitting them all with no data, I had them ranked 

1 Titleist TS2 (was 90% sure this was what I was gonna buy)

2 Callaway Mavrik( I was already gaming a GBB epic)

3 Cobra speed zone ( wasn’t on my radar before but it launched great and had a muted sound which I like)

4 Ping G410 (thought it was a little loud at impact but launch and feel were amazing)

The launch monitor was eye opening:

Ts2 was middle of the pack on all stats

Mavrik produced my longest drive but also my worst misses

Cobra was way too much spin and some nasty hooks

Ping was the clear winner: best launch, best spin, most carry, highest avg drive by 10 yards!

I did all that more or less by myself, the fitter really earned his cut when it came to picking a shaft: I never realized how different 2 “stiff” shafts from 2 different manufactures could be! In the end, I went with the evenflow 6.0 stiff and my driving stats are improving rapidly!

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

27 minutes ago, Micah T said:

I’m in favor of driver fittings: I did a lot of research on my own, tried all the new drivers at the local expo, and eliminated a couple before getting on the launch monitor. First to go was the TaylorMade SIM and Cleveland. (TaylorMade clubs all sound like a gun going off to me) After hitting them all with no data, I had them ranked 

1 Titleist TS2 (was 90% sure this was what I was gonna buy)

2 Callaway Mavrik( I was already gaming a GBB epic)

3 Cobra speed zone ( wasn’t on my radar before but it launched great and had a muted sound which I like)

4 Ping G410 (thought it was a little loud at impact but launch and feel were amazing)

The launch monitor was eye opening:

Ts2 was middle of the pack on all stats

Mavrik produced my longest drive but also my worst misses

Cobra was way too much spin and some nasty hooks

Ping was the clear winner: best launch, best spin, most carry, highest avg drive by 10 yards!

I did all that more or less by myself, the fitter really earned his cut when it came to picking a shaft: I never realized how different 2 “stiff” shafts from 2 different manufactures could be! In the end, I went with the evenflow 6.0 stiff and my driving stats are improving rapidly!

 

 

Two stiff shafts from the same manufacturer can be totally different even within the model line. In the evenflow line the White is going to be different from the blue and black and the riptide.

they will play different from the stiff shafts in the hzrdus line. In that line the black plays way different than the yellow and the green will be like the black but still slightly different. 

[Hotdocta]

I have found fittings both good and bad.  I did my first fitting on trackman indoor and it went great.   I ended up buying the m3.   Got it on course, played 4 rounds and could not hit it on the fairway to save my life.  I thought never to an indoor fitting again.  Next time did an outdoor fitting and the exact same thing  happened.

this year I thought I would give it one more try.  I got fit indoor with a sim max d.    Then they let me take the head with my top 3 shafts onto the course and I finally found the one that actually worked.    It came down to tour ad xc 6s tipped .5 and riptide 6.0 60 tipped an inch.   
 

Long story short, maybe I do not swing the same in the fitting vs the actual course.

[RickyBobby_PR]

21 minutes ago, Hotdocta said:

I have found fittings both good and bad.  I did my first fitting on trackman indoor and it went great.   I ended up buying the m3.   Got it on course, played 4 rounds and could not hit it on the fairway to save my life.  I thought never to an indoor fitting again.  Next time did an outdoor fitting and the exact same thing  happened.

this year I thought I would give it one more try.  I got fit indoor with a sim max d.    Then they let me take the head with my top 3 shafts onto the course and I finally found the one that actually worked.    It came down to tour ad xc 6s tipped .5 and riptide 6.0 60 tipped an inch.   
 

Long story short, maybe I do not swing the same in the fitting vs the actual course.

The bold is true for lots of golfers. Many are chasing distance gains and try to swing faster/harder than they normally do. Same goes for many just hitting balls on a driving range, there’s not penalty or fear of the result of a bad shot. I’ve heard fitters tell people to swing their normal swing. Indoor fittings you will find posts on here and other forums about people don’t swing the same indoors as they do outdoors.

In fittings some chase numbers. For example a fitter would tell a golfer what their launch and spin are on a shot and the person changes their swing to chase a certain number and it goes on and on throughout the fitting and the results are much different than course play. 

[Hotdocta]

2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The bold is true for lots of golfers. Many are chasing distance gains and try to swing faster/harder than they normally do. Same goes for many just hitting balls on a driving range, there’s not penalty or fear of the result of a bad shot. I’ve heard fitters tell people to swing their normal swing. Indoor fittings you will find posts on here and other forums about people don’t swing the same indoors as they do outdoors.

In fittings some chase numbers. For example a fitter would tell a golfer what their launch and spin are on a shot and the person changes their swing to chase a certain number and it goes on and on throughout the fitting and the results are much different than course play. 

That is exactly it.  I think for me I just get excited when trying new stuff and I am all adrenaline lol

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Hotdocta said:

That is exactly it.  I think for me I just get excited when trying new stuff and I am all adrenaline lol

I went into every fitting for years trying to hit the ball as far as possible but I was the same way on the course. Had to learn to sequence properly and once I took the game seriously that changed everything. I almost refuse to hear the numbers during a fitting and let ball flight and feel determine my input and let the fitter make adjustments based on the numbers he sees and my input. 

[Hotdocta]

15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I went into every fitting for years trying to hit the ball as far as possible but I was the same way on the course. Had to learn to sequence properly and once I took the game seriously that changed everything. I almost refuse to hear the numbers during a fitting and let ball flight and feel determine my input and let the fitter make adjustments based on the numbers he sees and my input. 

Yep, good call.    I hate to say it, I am number cruncher.  Sometimes I think the use of trackman really makes us over analyze the golf swing.  It almost becomes to mechanical .    That might be a discussion for a different thread through.

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, Hotdocta said:

Yep, good call.    I hate to say it, I am number cruncher.  Sometimes I think the use of trackman really makes us over analyze the golf swing.  It almost becomes to mechanical .    That might be a discussion for a different thread through.

I was the same. I wanted to know numbers on every shot and would make a change in setup or something to find better numbers. Totally agree that is some point that gets too mechanical. 

[AH1980MN]

On 4/8/2020 at 3:09 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s as beneficial for the better players. I’ve seen pros say if they can get 3 extra yards on a drive they are taking it and run. They are looking for a ball to be in a certain launch window and for it to fly a certain way. They use fittings and technology in clubs,  shafts, launch monitors, the ball and the club building process to achieve this. A number of pros switched from the prov1x to the Prov1 with the 2017 and 2019 releases because of spin.  

It's definitely beneficial to better players- my point was the worse you are, the more you stand to gain.

[trentyoung33]

I truly believe that fittings can be extremely beneficial, but only in a specific setting. I had a driver fitting at Club Champion in August of 2019 and  was fit for a Cobra F9, with an Accra TZ5 65 shaft. Long story short, on the course I had extremely mixed results with it and never got in a groove. Went back to Club Champion, got a second shaft, and never really vibed with that either once I left the store.

Two months ago, I did a driver fitting outdoors on the range with a local club pro and was fit for a Mavrik SZ and a Graphite Design XC-7X.  For the last two months I have never had more confidence in my driver and have consistently hit it better than any driver I have previously owned. All in all, my takeaway from these experiences is that I don't swing it well in a simulator environment. Getting fit outside and seeing the real ball flight made a huge difference for me.

[jkpigott]

Tony, first congrats on a swing speed of 97 at your age.

Loved that Mizuno ST 190 from last year having fit a number of folks in it. Really liked that it kept spin down even with a shaft on the lighter end of the spectrum. From your post, I would guess that your new shaft is a little heavier than the 50g in your Epic. Maybe a 65g Tensei orange?

My pet peeve with Mfrs now is on driver length.  They have added length because a longer shaft creates a wider arc which leads to faster club head speed - and they can SELL higher club head speed.  But  club head speed doesn't always translate to higher ball speed.  As someone who does driver fittings (not for CC), my sense is that players over a 10 or 12 will have a tough time making consistent center-face contact with a driver that's 45.5 to 45.75 inches long which is typical stock length today 

Cobra offers a Tour Length option (44.5") in their drivers.  Think it came out of Rickie gaming a 43.5" driver.  Think that is a great option for making better contact which is what leads to higher ball speed.  Careful when shortening an existing driver.  Best to order something shorter from factory and let them get the swing-weight right with the shorter shaft.  Most mfrs will allow for a 1" to 1.5" shorter option.

By the way, with shorter shaft, I bet you will also hit more fairways. So you'll have that going for you...which is nice.

Good luck. jkp

[Flip4000]

On 3/18/2020 at 7:17 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Fittings imo are far from overrated. People have misperceptions about fittings and therefore tend to come away disappointed. Fittings are to optimize your ball flight and improve dispersion. 
Many are solely focused on numbers and shade them in a fitting vice swinging their normal swing. Fitters sometimes focus to much on the numbers and not enough on the feedback from the golfer and sometimes the golfer doesn’t communicate their feelings/thoughts to the fitter.

i personally don’t care for indoor fittings because there is no way to see true ball flight and how the ball reacts with different contact points and spin rates. I would have to have a good trust in the fitter like Ian from TXG to do an indoor fitting. I also prefer to not know my numbers to avoid changing my swing but compare what I’m seeing to what I’m used to or expect. I try to tell the fitter after each shot or couple shots what I feel and where contact was and let them use the numbers to help make changes and to chat about how numbers look on that contact point.

Spin is both good and bad. Too much or too light based on launch, ball speed and you end up with less than optimal distance. There’s a range that’s good for each ball speed and finding the right balance makes a good driver in fitting and playable on the course 

Which do you think would provide more value: an in indoor fitting with real ball data or an outdoor fitting with range balls?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Flip4000

[RickyBobby_PR]

28 minutes ago, Flip4000 said:

Which do you think would provide more value: an in indoor fitting with real ball data or an outdoor fitting with range balls?

I don’t like the word value because both are valuable imo. It comes down to pros and cons which would include personal preferences. Both are good and many times also comes down to the fitter/fitting process as much as the indoor vs outdoor. The key thing is communication between fitter and golfer.

Trackman has an optimization feature that translates the ball into as if using a Prov1 so outdoor fitting with trackman gives you the ability to see ball flight as well as real ball data, although I’ve been fit outdoor on gc2 and the difference between a decent range ball and a prov1 wasn’t drastic. 
 

 I’m not as interested in ball data during the fitting because I don’t want to have numbers influence my swing to try and find a way to change them to get better results. I like interacting with the fitter on each shot as to what I felt and how the ball reacted and let the fitter see how that correlated to the numbers and use that to make determination on which direction to go with head and/or shaft changes. Most fitters take 3-4 shots then make a change.

For me I prefer the outdoor fitting so I can see ball flight which would go in my pro column. Many places use trackman and they have an algorithm for indoor use vice using the entire ball flight to calculate numbers so for me that’s a con.

Outdoor I also feel freer in my swing so another pro compared to indoor.

Indoor you could use your gamer ball at most places so that helps if you don’t trust the optimal action feature on trackman.

 

[Flip4000]

That's where I am iffy. 

I much prefer being able to witness my full ball flight and seeing how it varies in the air club to club or as changes are made. However I do like being able to use my gamer ball and see how each driver feels hitting the ball I would on the course.

I have a slight distrust of normalized data just because I don't always know if I can trust what's going on. 

I have seen a few clubs use practice prov1's on the range  so to me that probably would be a best case scenario to get fit there. 

I do agree communication is key with the fitter. Most of the time I get fit, I prefer the fitter not to tell me anything technical they do to the club ( lofting it up or down, or changing the settings) but just talk about the results I am seeing and feeling

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, Flip4000 said:

That's where I am iffy. 

I much prefer being able to witness my full ball flight and seeing how it varies in the air club to club or as changes are made. However I do like being able to use my gamer ball and see how each driver feels hitting the ball I would on the course.

I have a slight distrust of normalized data just because I don't always know if I can trust what's going on. 

I have seen a few clubs use practice prov1's on the range  so to me that probably would be a best case scenario to get fit there. 

I do agree communication is key with the fitter. Most of the time I get fit, I prefer the fitter not to tell me anything technical they do to the club ( lofting it up or down, or changing the settings) but just talk about the results I am seeing and feeling

I’ve been fit by pretty much every brands rep or full time demo day rep as well as pings traveling reps from HQ and pgasuperstore fitting as well as the previous and current guy at my range. Plus several Bridgestone ball fittings. These fittings have been done with flightscope, trackman and gc2 with everything from average to above average range balls and gamer balls. 
 

The differences in numbers with the same club compared on different monitors have been minimal and they have carried over to the course. 
 

If you prefer to see ball flight then I would go for an outdoor fitting. If optimized numbers are a concern even if just mental then yeah find a place that’s using Prov1 practice balls or a place that may be a closed type facility like a tourspec.

Eliminate as many variables that will impact your mental approach to the fitting and results and removes the most doubt over the setup that works.

[RagnarDanneskjold1]

I've only been playing for five years after taking up the sport at age 45. I've owned a launch monitor the last 3 years and the GC2-HMT combo that can track all the data from the ball and also the clubface. 15 handicap with a two-way miss on the driver. What looking at my launch monitor numbers regularly has taught me is that I have a lot of standard deviation in my swing and in my misses, not just day to day to day but within a session. I often miss right early and miss left late, or vice versa. I did a 30 minute monitor session with a Sim driver guy, and because my first 7 or 8 drives were missing right, he decided to change me to a draw-biased head at 9 degrees, and confidently informed me that I should never have a launch angle over 15 degrees. Then as I tired I started hooking that driver 40 yards left with no carry. Anyway, I gave up on the session, knowing this was more about me losing my driver swing form than the driver itself and demonstrated that a drive is always more about the player than the tool. Anyway, I passed on the $550 driver and just a week ago saw that the Ping G410plus that I hit a few times and liked last year was now discounting for $400 with many shaft choices. After doing an online fitting and researching some of the shaft options, I settled on the tour 65 reg flex shaft. (~91mph swing speed, in to out about 4 degrees swing path, about 6 degrees upward angle of attack, but too much variation of clubface to swingpath leading to misses left and right). My first couple of sessions adjusting to it on the range frankly stank, but then I went out and hit 12 of 14 fairways (a record for me) at my typical 220 to 240y total distance, after also remembering a tweak or two in my address position. Would I have made that tweak in a fitting session? I don't know. While I was hitting fairways, the unknown I was playing with hit his first 3 drives over 290y and on or near the fairway. I though wow, this guy is great. Then his next 11 drives for the day were mostly all lost balls. How does a guy like that get fitted?

I've been taking lessons occasionally over the years. Some lessons genuinely made me a worse golfer (Golftec). Some lessons didn't really help or hurt (a couple different people). My most recent lessons helped me take my hc down from 20 to 15 in about 8 rounds of golf, mostly helping my approach shots. I'm hoping this guy can help straighten my driver more and give me more distance next.

Conclusion. Some reasonable fitting ideas should help. Don't give a big hitter with a quick swing a long flexible shaft. Don't give a slow swing speed guy an X-stiff. Beyond that, there's a lot of randomness. In what a player brings to a fitting that day. In the beliefs that the fitter has. The player may want the wrong things from a fitting - maybe they need accuracy but want distance, or vise versa. Some club that's different than what you're used to may be terrible the first try, but work better after you adjust to it.