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Thoughts about Driver Fittings


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15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I went into every fitting for years trying to hit the ball as far as possible but I was the same way on the course. Had to learn to sequence properly and once I took the game seriously that changed everything. I almost refuse to hear the numbers during a fitting and let ball flight and feel determine my input and let the fitter make adjustments based on the numbers he sees and my input. 

Yep, good call.    I hate to say it, I am number cruncher.  Sometimes I think the use of trackman really makes us over analyze the golf swing.  It almost becomes to mechanical .    That might be a discussion for a different thread through.

Driver: Taylormade SIM Max d 9 with graphite design tour ad xc 6s

Fairway Wood:Taylormade Sim 15 with Graphite design Tour ad iz 6s
Hybrid:  Pxg gen2 19 with hand crafted hzrdus black 85 6.0 and Adams super ls xtd 22 with Diamana s+  stiff

Irons: 5-pw Miura Mc501 with modus 120s pured

Wedges:  Callaway md2 gold 50 Dg tour issue s400 black onyx, Taylormade MG 54 with DG tour issue s400 black onyx, and Taylormade hi toe 59 with modus 120r

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2 minutes ago, Hotdocta said:

Yep, good call.    I hate to say it, I am number cruncher.  Sometimes I think the use of trackman really makes us over analyze the golf swing.  It almost becomes to mechanical .    That might be a discussion for a different thread through.

I was the same. I wanted to know numbers on every shot and would make a change in setup or something to find better numbers. Totally agree that is some point that gets too mechanical. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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On 4/8/2020 at 3:09 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s as beneficial for the better players. I’ve seen pros say if they can get 3 extra yards on a drive they are taking it and run. They are looking for a ball to be in a certain launch window and for it to fly a certain way. They use fittings and technology in clubs,  shafts, launch monitors, the ball and the club building process to achieve this. A number of pros switched from the prov1x to the Prov1 with the 2017 and 2019 releases because of spin.  

It's definitely beneficial to better players- my point was the worse you are, the more you stand to gain.

WITB: 

Adams 9064LS 9.5* (until I cracked the face)

Adams Super LS 17*

Adams XTD Ti 23*

Wilson Staff Ci7 4-PW

Adams wedges: 52/7 56/13 60/7

Wilson Staff Infinite Southside putter/Odyssey DualForce 660 putter

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I truly believe that fittings can be extremely beneficial, but only in a specific setting. I had a driver fitting at Club Champion in August of 2019 and  was fit for a Cobra F9, with an Accra TZ5 65 shaft. Long story short, on the course I had extremely mixed results with it and never got in a groove. Went back to Club Champion, got a second shaft, and never really vibed with that either once I left the store.

Two months ago, I did a driver fitting outdoors on the range with a local club pro and was fit for a Mavrik SZ and a Graphite Design XC-7X.  For the last two months I have never had more confidence in my driver and have consistently hit it better than any driver I have previously owned. All in all, my takeaway from these experiences is that I don't swing it well in a simulator environment. Getting fit outside and seeing the real ball flight made a huge difference for me.

Driver:     image.png.4b2e2de291c6e3e8a5ad94e9f2919ba6.png Mavrik SZ - GD XC-7X

3 Wood:   image.png.fa4b3f2cf297aab0430b504772faa7d2.png Taylormade SIM - GD AD-DI 7X

Hybrids:  image.png.4b2e2de291c6e3e8a5ad94e9f2919ba6.png Apex 20* - GD AD-DI 95X

Irons:      image.png.4b2e2de291c6e3e8a5ad94e9f2919ba6.png  Apex Pro '19 - DG X100 4-PW

Wedges: image.png.4554f4063a75fadd669e2b2fd26101d8.png SM7

Putter:     Spider X Chalk

Ball:         ProV1

 

 

 

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Tony, first congrats on a swing speed of 97 at your age.

Loved that Mizuno ST 190 from last year having fit a number of folks in it. Really liked that it kept spin down even with a shaft on the lighter end of the spectrum. From your post, I would guess that your new shaft is a little heavier than the 50g in your Epic. Maybe a 65g Tensei orange?

My pet peeve with Mfrs now is on driver length.  They have added length because a longer shaft creates a wider arc which leads to faster club head speed - and they can SELL higher club head speed.  But  club head speed doesn't always translate to higher ball speed.  As someone who does driver fittings (not for CC), my sense is that players over a 10 or 12 will have a tough time making consistent center-face contact with a driver that's 45.5 to 45.75 inches long which is typical stock length today 

Cobra offers a Tour Length option (44.5") in their drivers.  Think it came out of Rickie gaming a 43.5" driver.  Think that is a great option for making better contact which is what leads to higher ball speed.  Careful when shortening an existing driver.  Best to order something shorter from factory and let them get the swing-weight right with the shorter shaft.  Most mfrs will allow for a 1" to 1.5" shorter option.

By the way, with shorter shaft, I bet you will also hit more fairways. So you'll have that going for you...which is nice.

Good luck. jkp

:cobra-small: F9 9* Atmos Tour Spec Black 6s 45"

:nickent-small:  17* and 20* Hybrids Aldila NVS

:macgregor-small:  VIP V-foil 1025c 4-P True Temper 120g ProPel Lite 2* flat, 1* strong

:cleveland-small:  CG10 52* (bent 50*) and 56 (bent 55*)

:mizuno-small:   MpTseries 60* Raw Haze

:ping-small:   Faith Wack-E 32"

:taylormade-small:TP5 ball

:titelist-small: Stand bag

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/18/2020 at 7:17 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

Fittings imo are far from overrated. People have misperceptions about fittings and therefore tend to come away disappointed. Fittings are to optimize your ball flight and improve dispersion. 
Many are solely focused on numbers and shade them in a fitting vice swinging their normal swing. Fitters sometimes focus to much on the numbers and not enough on the feedback from the golfer and sometimes the golfer doesn’t communicate their feelings/thoughts to the fitter.

i personally don’t care for indoor fittings because there is no way to see true ball flight and how the ball reacts with different contact points and spin rates. I would have to have a good trust in the fitter like Ian from TXG to do an indoor fitting. I also prefer to not know my numbers to avoid changing my swing but compare what I’m seeing to what I’m used to or expect. I try to tell the fitter after each shot or couple shots what I feel and where contact was and let them use the numbers to help make changes and to chat about how numbers look on that contact point.

Spin is both good and bad. Too much or too light based on launch, ball speed and you end up with less than optimal distance. There’s a range that’s good for each ball speed and finding the right balance makes a good driver in fitting and playable on the course 

Which do you think would provide more value: an in indoor fitting with real ball data or an outdoor fitting with range balls?

Edited by Flip4000

Right Handed

Taylormade sim2 9 degree ventus black 7x ( velecore) 44.5

Callaway epic flash sz 5 wood 17 degree tensi AV blue X

Mizuno CLK 19 degree tensi av blue X

Callaway x forged 16 4-pw Project x 6.0 +.75

Vokey SM7 black 50/54/58 Project x 6.0 flighted +.5 length 

Scotty cameron newport 2.6 34 length

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28 minutes ago, Flip4000 said:

Which do you think would provide more value: an in indoor fitting with real ball data or an outdoor fitting with range balls?

I don’t like the word value because both are valuable imo. It comes down to pros and cons which would include personal preferences. Both are good and many times also comes down to the fitter/fitting process as much as the indoor vs outdoor. The key thing is communication between fitter and golfer.

Trackman has an optimization feature that translates the ball into as if using a Prov1 so outdoor fitting with trackman gives you the ability to see ball flight as well as real ball data, although I’ve been fit outdoor on gc2 and the difference between a decent range ball and a prov1 wasn’t drastic. 
 

 I’m not as interested in ball data during the fitting because I don’t want to have numbers influence my swing to try and find a way to change them to get better results. I like interacting with the fitter on each shot as to what I felt and how the ball reacted and let the fitter see how that correlated to the numbers and use that to make determination on which direction to go with head and/or shaft changes. Most fitters take 3-4 shots then make a change.

For me I prefer the outdoor fitting so I can see ball flight which would go in my pro column. Many places use trackman and they have an algorithm for indoor use vice using the entire ball flight to calculate numbers so for me that’s a con.

Outdoor I also feel freer in my swing so another pro compared to indoor.

Indoor you could use your gamer ball at most places so that helps if you don’t trust the optimal action feature on trackman.

 

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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That's where I am iffy. 

I much prefer being able to witness my full ball flight and seeing how it varies in the air club to club or as changes are made. However I do like being able to use my gamer ball and see how each driver feels hitting the ball I would on the course.

I have a slight distrust of normalized data just because I don't always know if I can trust what's going on. 

I have seen a few clubs use practice prov1's on the range  so to me that probably would be a best case scenario to get fit there. 

I do agree communication is key with the fitter. Most of the time I get fit, I prefer the fitter not to tell me anything technical they do to the club ( lofting it up or down, or changing the settings) but just talk about the results I am seeing and feeling

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Right Handed

Taylormade sim2 9 degree ventus black 7x ( velecore) 44.5

Callaway epic flash sz 5 wood 17 degree tensi AV blue X

Mizuno CLK 19 degree tensi av blue X

Callaway x forged 16 4-pw Project x 6.0 +.75

Vokey SM7 black 50/54/58 Project x 6.0 flighted +.5 length 

Scotty cameron newport 2.6 34 length

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4 minutes ago, Flip4000 said:

That's where I am iffy. 

I much prefer being able to witness my full ball flight and seeing how it varies in the air club to club or as changes are made. However I do like being able to use my gamer ball and see how each driver feels hitting the ball I would on the course.

I have a slight distrust of normalized data just because I don't always know if I can trust what's going on. 

I have seen a few clubs use practice prov1's on the range  so to me that probably would be a best case scenario to get fit there. 

I do agree communication is key with the fitter. Most of the time I get fit, I prefer the fitter not to tell me anything technical they do to the club ( lofting it up or down, or changing the settings) but just talk about the results I am seeing and feeling

I’ve been fit by pretty much every brands rep or full time demo day rep as well as pings traveling reps from HQ and pgasuperstore fitting as well as the previous and current guy at my range. Plus several Bridgestone ball fittings. These fittings have been done with flightscope, trackman and gc2 with everything from average to above average range balls and gamer balls. 
 

The differences in numbers with the same club compared on different monitors have been minimal and they have carried over to the course. 
 

If you prefer to see ball flight then I would go for an outdoor fitting. If optimized numbers are a concern even if just mental then yeah find a place that’s using Prov1 practice balls or a place that may be a closed type facility like a tourspec.

Eliminate as many variables that will impact your mental approach to the fitting and results and removes the most doubt over the setup that works.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've only been playing for five years after taking up the sport at age 45. I've owned a launch monitor the last 3 years and the GC2-HMT combo that can track all the data from the ball and also the clubface. 15 handicap with a two-way miss on the driver. What looking at my launch monitor numbers regularly has taught me is that I have a lot of standard deviation in my swing and in my misses, not just day to day to day but within a session. I often miss right early and miss left late, or vice versa. I did a 30 minute monitor session with a Sim driver guy, and because my first 7 or 8 drives were missing right, he decided to change me to a draw-biased head at 9 degrees, and confidently informed me that I should never have a launch angle over 15 degrees. Then as I tired I started hooking that driver 40 yards left with no carry. Anyway, I gave up on the session, knowing this was more about me losing my driver swing form than the driver itself and demonstrated that a drive is always more about the player than the tool. Anyway, I passed on the $550 driver and just a week ago saw that the Ping G410plus that I hit a few times and liked last year was now discounting for $400 with many shaft choices. After doing an online fitting and researching some of the shaft options, I settled on the tour 65 reg flex shaft. (~91mph swing speed, in to out about 4 degrees swing path, about 6 degrees upward angle of attack, but too much variation of clubface to swingpath leading to misses left and right). My first couple of sessions adjusting to it on the range frankly stank, but then I went out and hit 12 of 14 fairways (a record for me) at my typical 220 to 240y total distance, after also remembering a tweak or two in my address position. Would I have made that tweak in a fitting session? I don't know. While I was hitting fairways, the unknown I was playing with hit his first 3 drives over 290y and on or near the fairway. I though wow, this guy is great. Then his next 11 drives for the day were mostly all lost balls. How does a guy like that get fitted?

I've been taking lessons occasionally over the years. Some lessons genuinely made me a worse golfer (Golftec). Some lessons didn't really help or hurt (a couple different people). My most recent lessons helped me take my hc down from 20 to 15 in about 8 rounds of golf, mostly helping my approach shots. I'm hoping this guy can help straighten my driver more and give me more distance next.

Conclusion. Some reasonable fitting ideas should help. Don't give a big hitter with a quick swing a long flexible shaft. Don't give a slow swing speed guy an X-stiff. Beyond that, there's a lot of randomness. In what a player brings to a fitting that day. In the beliefs that the fitter has. The player may want the wrong things from a fitting - maybe they need accuracy but want distance, or vise versa. Some club that's different than what you're used to may be terrible the first try, but work better after you adjust to it.

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My personal experience with a driver fitting has been negative overall. This is not to say that the actual fitting process or the fitter was bad, only that the ultimate outcome was me moving on from the fitted driver within six months.

 

I recently got back into golf after not playing since high school, and, even back then, I wasn't a consistent or dedicated golfer. I worked on the range for about a month in order to get my swing back in sync and get used to hitting balls again. After I felt comfortable, I scheduled a driver fitting. I came into the fitting hitting the ball about 230 with a slice; I finished the fitting with a new driver that I consistently hit 260 with a fade. I was ecstatic with the results.

 

Unfortunately, after taking the driver home, going to the range, and playing a few rounds, I just couldn't hit the driver. The results were nothing like the ones I saw during the fitting. I went back to the fitter, and they reassessed the fit, but I could not come close to replicating my previous results. I left with a new shaft and, still, poor results. After a few months, I moved on to a different driver that I could hit better and felt more comfortable with.

 

All of this is to say: my main mistake in getting fit for my driver was not having a consistent swing. I was just getting back into golf and, although I felt my swing was consistent within a session, it changed between sessions. Therefore, my driver was fit perfectly for my swing on that day, but quite poorly for how my swing developed. After golfing for six more months, working on my swing, and lowering my handicap to 13, NOW would be an appropriate time for me to get a driver fitting. I made the mistake of thinking that the fitting would improve my game without a real understanding of the inconsistencies in my swing.

:mizuno-small: ST 200 9.5°, Mitsubishi Tensei AV Blue 65 S

:mizuno-small: ST 200 3w 15°, Diamana S+ 60 S

:srixon-small: Z H85 3h 19°, Project X Hzrdus Black Hybrid 6.0

:taylormade-small: P770 (2017) 4-PW, KBS Tour FLT 120 S

:vokey-small: SM8 50.08F, 54.14F, 58.08M, KBS Tour S

:ping-small: Sigma 2 Fetch 34"

:bridgestone-small: Tour B X

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Fittings if done right, by both the player and fitter are essential in my opinion. I know that in indoor fittings, I sometimes feel off my swing due to the room feeling smaller than the freedom of the course. Also trying to change your swing to fix things for the fitting is a bad idea I've known people to do. Swing your swing how you'd play on the course and a fitting should improve your game! 

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Driver  :titelist-small: TS 2, Hzrdus Smoke Black Stiff 9.5* Setting, A2

Fairway Wood:   :ping-small: G30 Stiff Shaft

Hybrid:   :titelist-small: TS2 19* Hzrdus Smoke Black Stiff shaft

Irons:     :titelist-small: 718 AP1 (4-PW) AMT Red Stiff Shafts 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: RTX4 52* 56*

Putter:   :cameron-small: Scotty Cameron Golo 5

Right Handed 

Pittsburgh, PA

 

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3 minutes ago, Apes44 said:

Fittings if done right, by both the player and fitter are essential in my opinion. I know that in indoor fittings, I sometimes feel off my swing due to the room feeling smaller than the freedom of the course. Also trying to change your swing to fix things for the fitting is a bad idea I've known people to do. Swing your swing how you'd play on the course and a fitting should improve your game! 

I’ve had indoor lessons and one fitting. Even knowing there’s room all around I always had that thought in my head of don’t hit the wall or ceiling on the follow thru.

Ive been guilty of the change your swing during a fitting. When a fitter would tell me launch and spin if it was out of the range where I’ve know to have the best results I would adjust stance or alignment and try to force a swing to try and get to numbers or the I’m going to swing as hard and fast as possible to see how much distance I can try to get. I’ve stopped that approach and let the club do the work. I’ve also stopped having fitters give me numbers after each shot and focus more on giving my feedback on where I felt like the strike was, how the ball flight is compared to what I see when I play and let the fitter use what he sees in the ball flight, compare it with the monitor if he chooses and let him use that and my feedback to make a change. I also try not to hit more than 3-5 balls with a setup so that I don’t start making changes to my swing based on the flight. The titleist thursday fittings I have done along with my last 2 ping and tm fittings all the fitters made a change in the 3-5 swing range.

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Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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