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I used to love the way my Wilson woods felt and sounded when you connected perfectly - my 3 wood was one of the most accurate in my bag.

Interesting enough  during this isolation period I have watched several videos that asked the question - What has been the biggest improvement in golf equipment, the Ball or the Clubs.

In them they had clubs and balls from the mid 1980's - Persimmon Woods and blades effectively and Balata pro golf balls vs the latest technology Drivers and Irons and Pro v1 golf balls. Add a swing robots and in one case 4 golfers a pro, a 3, 12, 24 handicap golfers and the latest Trackman.

The winner was by far the ball, on average the Pro v1 flew 15-20 yards further with the driver. Add that the new driver was 6-9 yards longer makes a difference of 20-30 yards. Interestingly the main difference with the wedges was the spin rate, it was slightly higher with the Pro v1 which was opposite to the initial train of thought. There was very little distance difference between the old irons and new with similar lofts.

As you can imagine consistency was not an issue with the robot but was major difference between the old and new clubs.

One thing that I did not realise was how quickly the old balls went out of round.

It was fun to watch and learn.

 

 

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Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Epic Hybrid 18 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway Clubs

Callaway Big Bertha Putter - for when it is wet

La Jolla Putter with Flat Car Grip.

Preferred ball - Currently Costco Kirkland Performance 3 Piece but Seed 001 is preferred.

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11 hours ago, Firebird said:

I used to love the way my Wilson woods felt and sounded when you connected perfectly - my 3 wood was one of the most accurate in my bag.

Interesting enough  during this isolation period I have watched several videos that asked the question - What has been the biggest improvement in golf equipment, the Ball or the Clubs.

In them they had clubs and balls from the mid 1980's - Persimmon Woods and blades effectively and Balata pro golf balls vs the latest technology Drivers and Irons and Pro v1 golf balls. Add a swing robots and in one case 4 golfers a pro, a 3, 12, 24 handicap golfers and the latest Trackman.

The winner was by far the ball, on average the Pro v1 flew 15-20 yards further with the driver. Add that the new driver was 6-9 yards longer makes a difference of 20-30 yards. Interestingly the main difference with the wedges was the spin rate, it was slightly higher with the Pro v1 which was opposite to the initial train of thought. There was very little distance difference between the old irons and new with similar lofts.

As you can imagine consistency was not an issue with the robot but was major difference between the old and new clubs.

One thing that I did not realise was how quickly the old balls went out of round.

It was fun to watch and learn.

 

 

 

The problem with tests like that, using old golf balls, is that wound balls degrade significantly more quickly over time than do solid core balls.  A 30 year old wound ball is going to be that much shorter due to that performance degradation.

There are ball tests from 2001 that include wound balls and the new solid core balls.  Those tests show the difference between the wound and solid core to be minimal.  Spin rates off the tee are, of course, pretty different.  

Driver: Cobra Fly-Z+, Xcaliber Tour 7.5 TS, 43.5"; TaylorMade R11s, Aldila NV ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"; --testing-- TM Original One 11.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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Posted (edited)

I recently purchased a M85W driver and sent it to Dave Wood for restoration. He looked at it and emailed me the following responses over a few emails:

"OMG... You possess the Rarest of the rare! Got to wonder who this was made for?"

"... Your M85 is one of the best I have ever worked on. BC's is really good, but yours is absolutely next level."

"Completely taken apart and reassembled. All new Reed & Prince solid brass screws (as original).

"Am currently stripping and detailing the club head. One of the best M85’s ever."

 

He said that the grain is perfect, aligned from toe to back of hosel perfectly, shaped to weight (no lead in the head), a big block while maybe not a Jumbo head but a real big block. No neck cracks and carbon spots and mineral deposits in the wood with perfect micro grain. Dave told me yesterday that he absolutely loves this driver and if he had this wood in the early 80s this would have gone right into Ben Crenshaw's bag as his primary gamer. There is just something very, very special with MacGregor pro line woods from the early 50s.  The M85s, 693s, 945s and M43s were in a class in their own and some of the most sought after woods back in the day.  To say I am pretty excited to receiving this M85W back is an understatement.

 

The first two pictures are from Dave Wood during the restoration process.

M85W no soleplate.jpg

M85W restoration.jpg

 

The following pictures are from pre-restoration when I first received the M85W.

M85W crown.JPG

M85W face natural light.jpg

Edited by RobotDoctor
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10 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

The problem with tests like that, using old golf balls, is that wound balls degrade significantly more quickly over time than do solid core balls.  A 30 year old wound ball is going to be that much shorter due to that performance degradation.

There are ball tests from 2001 that include wound balls and the new solid core balls.  Those tests show the difference between the wound and solid core to be minimal.  Spin rates off the tee are, of course, pretty different.  

I found so Topflite Balada Z balls (2000) and Wilson Pro Balada  (1990) balls in a couple of old bags I have in the roof of the garage so I took them out on the practice fairway. OMG, they Balada Z actually felt quite nice, the Wilson felt like I was hitting a piece of rubber which in reality I was. Interesting to read some where that the R & A has said they are looking at options to reduce the length that a golf ball can fly at a professional level. The PGA current drive distance average for top 20 pros is 310 yards, they want it to be more like 280.

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Epic Hybrid 18 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway Clubs

Callaway Big Bertha Putter - for when it is wet

La Jolla Putter with Flat Car Grip.

Preferred ball - Currently Costco Kirkland Performance 3 Piece but Seed 001 is preferred.

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My first set of clubs was comprised of a second hand set of Titleist Accu-Flo irons (funky lookin' heads), but I got new woods to go with them. I always hit them well and miss the solidness you felt when you pured one. However, I was never a big hitter and shorter in stature, so once metal heads hit the market I never looked back. I did, however, get them refinished and that was really what put them out of rotation...The refinishing job came out so well, that I couldn't justify ever hitting them again, especially since I would be giving up considerable yardage. Anyway, I do miss them and they're truly beautiful MacGregor's from late 70's.

MacGregor693T-1.jpg

MacGregor693T-2.jpg

MacGregor693T-3.jpg

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On 5/1/2020 at 7:23 AM, RobotDoctor said:

I recently purchased a M85W driver and sent it to Dave Wood for restoration. He looked at it and emailed me the following responses over a few emails:

"OMG... You possess the Rarest of the rare! Got to wonder who this was made for?"

"... Your M85 is one of the best I have ever worked on. BC's is really good, but yours is absolutely next level."

"Completely taken apart and reassembled. All new Reed & Prince solid brass screws (as original).

"Am currently stripping and detailing the club head. One of the best M85’s ever."

 

He said that the grain is perfect, aligned from toe to back of hosel perfectly, shaped to weight (no lead in the head), a big block while maybe not a Jumbo head but a real big block. No neck cracks and carbon spots and mineral deposits in the wood with perfect micro grain. Dave told me yesterday that he absolutely loves this driver and if he had this wood in the early 80s this would have gone right into Ben Crenshaw's bag as his primary gamer. There is just something very, very special with MacGregor pro line woods from the early 50s.  The M85s, 693s, 945s and M43s were in a class in their own and some of the most sought after woods back in the day.  To say I am pretty excited to receiving this M85W back is an understatement.

 

The first two pictures are from Dave Wood during the restoration process.

M85W no soleplate.jpg

M85W restoration.jpg

 

The following pictures are from pre-restoration when I first received the M85W.

M85W crown.JPG

M85W face natural light.jpg

 

Here are a few pictures Dave Wood just sent me of this driver now that the restoration has been completed.  He texted me with these:

"One of the best in the history of M85W Eye O Matics. Better than Ben's!"

"If I had this on that cool autumn morning in 83' it would have gone into BC's bag and won a green coat."

 Very high praise from one of the best persimmon club makers/restoration craftsman ever.  All I can say is WOW.  It should be back to me the beginning of next week.

 

IMG_4960.jpg

IMG_4961.jpg

IMG_4962.jpg

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On 3/21/2020 at 5:27 PM, RobotDoctor said:

How many here play either occasionally or predominantly woods made of persimmon or maple (laminated)?  While I game modern equipment I occasionally bring out one of my classic persimmon drivers from the 50s (MacGregor) out for a play date.  How many here do this?  I know BigStu does (from interaction on another site).  Here's a few of mine.  These are my 1950-1952 693, 1952-1953 M09 LFF, 1954-1955 M85W and Wood Brothers Texan made for Gene Sauers.

 

 

693 face.jpg

LFF face.jpg

M85W.jpg

Wood Bros Sauers.jpg

I found a Ping ISI Tour 3 wood for $3.00 at a Thrift store. I was so surprised how fun it was to hit that I started buying other wood clubs until I had the 5 and 7 of this model and a set of Driver, 3w, and 5w of the Ping Eye 2 woods. 

I love the sound of impact. The heavy head also seemed to give me a lot more awareness of the club head. 

I game then when I play golf with some old duffers at a local 9 hole executive course to help give them a better chance of beating me. 

I also use them to dial in my swing for better control of impact. When I have these dialed in then my gamer is that much more consistent.

Later, I researched the ISI TOUR to find it was the last wood club used on the PGA tour in 1994. It was the end of an era. It is made of laminated maple, hollowed out in the center, perimeter weighted, and filled with epoxy for forgiveness. Plus the red insert does not use screws as it is bonded. Mine has a graphite w54 woman's flex - it's ok to laugh, but I was hitting it 220 yards. That's about one club gap less than my gamer. 

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  • 4 months later...

Hi. I just bought a set of MacGregor woods on eBay. They were purchased from a golf course that was going out of business.

As far as I can tell, they've never seen grass. Arrived still in the box.

Based on that, I'd say they're early '90's vintage, but possibly older. They're Uniblock, not solid persimmon. Model is 1S300.
 

Any info non these would be appreciated. Trying to decide whether to seal them in a vault or start playing them.

Box label.jpg

driver sole.jpg

fairway woods.jpg

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Campbell Tour Grade driver

Honma Big Baffy 4 wood

Wilson K-28 irons 3, 5-PW

Wilson Harmonized SW, 55-degree

Slotline bullseye-style putter

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Here are a few pictures of one of my 945W drivers I just had Dave Wood restored.
IMG_6467.JPG.2db028b955a1bbc2179316506183d9b3.JPG
IMG_6466.JPG.b5275cb5bf580bc277b83357b7cd9bba.JPG
IMG_6465.JPG.f54bfabcaac164a954c68bb97ae01b9f.JPG
IMG_6468.JPG.327221cf386677e675ae1abdc4e936ef.JPG
This is my other 945W that was just restored by Dave Wood.
IMG_6479.JPG.9e3bb0924628cb4ab44512218d7eace5.JPG
IMG_6480.JPG.c0d3ddba2a3c5798b3d11d94cd1a2891.JPG
IMG_6478.JPG.0331c2cdf4614316998555d4a1b6c2bb.JPG

Beautiful restoration!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Ping G410 Plus

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead

Irons; Ping G410 5-SW & Mizno 919 Hot Metal 5-SW

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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3 hours ago, Rickp said:


Beautiful restoration!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Thanks.  Dave Wood is the best in the restoration industry.  His works always come out outstanding.  I have always been completely satisfied with his work on my woods.  I have about a dozen more I will be sending him over the next couple of years.

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Those are indeed some reasonably attractive woods   🙂

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Driver: Cobra Fly-Z+, Xcaliber Tour 7.5 TS, 43.5"; TaylorMade R11s, Aldila NV ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"; --testing-- TM Original One 11.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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54 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

Those are indeed some reasonably attractive woods   🙂

Here is another picture of the crown showcasing the grain.  Very dense and from an ancient growth tree.

IMG_2479.jpeg

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I still have my old Golfcraft persimmon driver I played decades ago. I was told Golfcraft was a clubmaker that was bought by Titleist in the 70s or 80s. Frankly, I'm afraid to try it today fearing it might be damaged. However, I still remember the feeling of my trusty Golfcraft making solid contact with a balata Titleist.  

IMG_0418.JPG

IMG_0420.JPG

IMG_0421.JPG

Edited by Hoganman1
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Drive for Show; Putt for Dough

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I seem to be transitioning to graphite in my irons.  And as my season has gone on, I've found myself feeling similarly to how I felt last year, which saw me start the season with Orlimar persimmons in the bag, exclusively.

I now find myself possibly needing to do the same with a persimmon wood or two, replacing steel shafts with graphite.  I do have a driver with graphite, but would need a fairway wood reshafted, maybe a couple.  My current graphite persimmon is a Louisville Smart Driver with a 100g shaft.  Not a lot of similar weight graphite out there, I may find myself reshafting said driver, as well.

This isn't meant as a request for answers, just a process/journey update.   🙂

 

Edited by NRJyzr
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Driver: Cobra Fly-Z+, Xcaliber Tour 7.5 TS, 43.5"; TaylorMade R11s, Aldila NV ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"; --testing-- TM Original One 11.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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17 hours ago, Hoganman1 said:

I still have my old Golfcraft persimmon driver I played decades ago. I was told Golfcraft was a clubmaker that was bought by Titleist in the 70s or 80s. Frankly, I'm afraid to try it today fearing it might be damaged. However, I still remember the feeling of my trusty Golfcraft making solid contact with a balata Titleist.  

IMG_0418.JPG

IMG_0420.JPG

IMG_0421.JPG

That is a fantastic tight grain pattern and direction for a persimmon head!!  Back in the day, you'd look for a grain pattern on a head that was as perpendicular to the face as possible.  Some guys would be selective on the slight direction the grain ran.  One guy I knew didn't like a head where the grain pointed too much to the right, he said it made him hit it that direction!  🤔   I guess to him it was a mis-directed sight line.  

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Ping G410+ 9*, Accra TourZ X265 M5 

Ping i20 17* & 23* hybrids, stock stiff shafts

Mizuno JPX 919 HMP 4i, PX LZ 6.0

Mizuno JPX 900 Forged 5 - PW, PX LZ 6.0

Cleveland Tour Action 49*, 53*, 57*; PX LZ 6.5

Ping Heppler Fetch

Snell MTB

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