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Vice vs. Snell Blind Test


Topher178

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Good Experiment. I'm really curious how your course testing goes. Short Game testing on course really showed the difference between balls for me. I used MTB-X last year and just bought 2 dozen for this year and I would be skeptical of the 10-15 yrds you mentioned especially with your sorter clubs. This may have been something with the simulator you were on or some off center hits with the others. 

 

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2i: Maltby KE4 FDI 
4-PW:  Maltby TS-1 - C-Taper 120g 
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Id be curious to hear which Vice ball you were using.  Ive played both Snell and Vice and they performed virtually identically for me.  I know that a lot of people buy into the claims from Snell that he designs the balls and has people are Foremost who are constantly checking quality but to be fair, this ball technology is nothing new, which is why all of these DTC companies are able to make 3 and 4-piece balls now.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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Good test.  I've played both Snell and Vice, and I found Vice to wear out really quick and Snell to last a lot longer.  Snell is a better ball if compared with the Vice, IMHO.

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7 minutes ago, Mr. 82 said:

Good test.  I've played both Snell and Vice, and I found Vice to wear out really quick and Snell to last a lot longer.  Snell is a better ball if compared with the Vice, IMHO.

I haven't played either all that much but I too find the Snell better in the durability/wear category. While I still haven't adopted the one ball for me approach, the MTB Black would likely be my pick for overall value.

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4 minutes ago, fixyurdivot said:

I haven't played either all that much but I too find the Snell better in the durability/wear category. While I still haven't adopted the one ball for me approach, the MTB Black would likely be my pick for overall value.

I'm right there with you.  My problem is that I have about 8 dozen brand new balls sitting in the house here of various variety, and I don't even know if I will ever get to them.  I mean, just last month I stopped counting the number of once hit (and lost) Pro V1/xs that I found in the woods or rough at my home course.  Guys literally hit the ball once and lose a drive, and I end up finding it.  So forgive me if I stick it in my bag and just play those.  I mean, it's crazy honestly.  I had so many of them, that the two guys I play with on Mondays I started tossing them 6 or 7 ProV1s for them to play because they were weighing down my bag too much.

Yeah, I know, I should just shut up and keep that bit of information to myself.  But what would you do if you saw a free (almost) brand new ProV1 sitting in the rough or woods that was just as good as new?  Yeah, that's what I thought you'd say.  😁  

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9 minutes ago, Mr. 82 said:

But what would you do if you saw a free (almost) brand new ProV1 sitting in the rough or woods that was just as good as new?

It moves to the numero uno spot pick for my game ball.

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:ping-small: G400 SFT, 19 Degree 5w

:srixon-small:  ZX5 Irons 4-AW 

:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

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2 hours ago, Retrogolfer36 said:

Id be curious to hear which Vice ball you were using.  Ive played both Snell and Vice and they performed virtually identically for me.  I know that a lot of people buy into the claims from Snell that he designs the balls and has people are Foremost who are constantly checking quality but to be fair, this ball technology is nothing new, which is why all of these DTC companies are able to make 3 and 4-piece balls now.

I was using the Vice Pro and Pro+. The two vice and the MTB X were all very similar to me. I think you can't go wrong with any of them. 

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1 hour ago, fixyurdivot said:

It moves to the numero uno spot pick for my game ball.

I find quite a few on our course. But for me I usually stick to the ball I've been using. My golfing partner loves hitting proVs but orders Vice with his works logo. So I usually trade him for a vice 😉

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2 hours ago, pozzit said:

Good Experiment. I'm really curious how your course testing goes. Short Game testing on course really showed the difference between balls for me. I used MTB-X last year and just bought 2 dozen for this year and I would be skeptical of the 10-15 yrds you mentioned especially with your sorter clubs. This may have been something with the simulator you were on or some off center hits with the others. 

 

It's wasn't as much on the 56 and 50. More towards the 9 and 8 I guess. But I could definitely feel and see it come off the face quicker. It was also my concern when I saw it happening if it was something I was doing. Distance isn't an issue for me. Control is more important and my groups were tighter and more accurate with the MTB Black. It's been driving me crazy not being able to go try the simulator again or some on course testing. But I'll be patient ... I guess

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I was using the Vice Pro and Pro+. The two vice and the MTB X were all very similar to me. I think you can't go wrong with any of them. 
Agree. I think any of the DTC balls work just fine. I'm using the Maxflis now, which I believe are also a Foremost rebrand and theyre great.
I think it's more about which brand identity you like. I think that most who prefer Snell like Dean Snell (its hard not to at least respect him) and believe that he has a hand in the design and qc of the balls.
I've tried Snell, Vice and Cut and theyre all good. I want to try Seed and Quantix but I kind of feel like it's all the same ball with a different brand name.
That's kind of why I like Maxfli. I can buy them as I need and dont need to stock up. I always felt with DTC that I needed to stick up because sometimes the higher end balls were sold out or backordered.

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"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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16 hours ago, fixyurdivot said:

I haven't played either all that much but I too find the Snell better in the durability/wear category. While I still haven't adopted the one ball for me approach, the MTB Black would likely be my pick for overall value.

We did notice that the vice were getting cut up a lot more with the wedges too. Interesting that you found that too. 

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I have been experimenting with different brands lately and decided to give Snell MTB-X a try.  I have tried all the usual suspects and then the Vice balls, but never Snell.  So my first take was the Snell looked out of the box right up there with Titleist, Callaway and Taylor Made.  On the course the Snell was noticeably LONGER off the Tee, I gained at least 5  - 8 yds on avg. over the Prov1X that has always been the longer performing ball for me.  The Snell also held up for several rounds where the Vice was a 1 round and done at best.  I have played 8 rounds with the Snell and have decided its not the ball for me, but I did pass it along to my father who needs distance help rather than spin performance.  He loves it, his swing speed is around 85 mph and he has seen a gain in yds off the tee and a little help with irons as well.  My thoughts are purely based my play on the course as I do not have access to a simulator, but I would say that the Snell is by far a better golf ball than the Vice.

Hit'em straight and not too often!!!

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On 3/24/2020 at 8:10 AM, Retrogolfer36 said:

Id be curious to hear which Vice ball you were using.  Ive played both Snell and Vice and they performed virtually identically for me.  I know that a lot of people buy into the claims from Snell that he designs the balls and has people are Foremost who are constantly checking quality but to be fair, this ball technology is nothing new, which is why all of these DTC companies are able to make 3 and 4-piece balls now.

I believe the MTB balls (with exception of the Red) have been produced at the Nassau factory which Snell has a hand in establishing and had been working with for years during his time at TMaG. Also given his background and the number of patents with his name on them, I’ll take him at his word. 

Vice on the other hand is almost certainly not involved in the actual design or production process (balls designed and produced by Foremost). Does this mean that the balls are bad? Nope, Foremost is one of the best factories in Asia. 

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  • 1 month later...

We'll it snowed yesterday..... I've been able to get out a couple times at least. But a few things I've noticed playing with them. The MTB-X does fair a little better in the wind. But with the approach shots I do feel like I've had really good distance control. It's been very consistent. Looking forward to using them when the weather starts getting above 50 again! And a side note. One of my league partners mentioned that it seemed like the ball was flying off the face and crushed. I was driving into the wind and it wasn't going as far as we thought. But I think that was more wind than the ball. Other than that. No new updates. 

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I've played both the MTB Black and Vice Pro, still have some of each.  Some rather anecdotal observations...

The Vice feels quite a bit firmer than the Snell; I feel I could play the Snell, but the Vice has essentially become a Ping irons only golfball for me (lol).  I especially noticed this a couple weeks ago, when I played each ball for a hole or two, with my persimmons.  The Snell had an acceptable feel, the Vice, not so much.  Actually put the Vice back in the bag after I finished the hole with it, didn't want to hit it with a persimmon again.   😉

Continuing with anecdotal observations, I've felt like the Vice is a little shorter.  This could be spin, but I've got no data to back that up, just an observation over the years of how spin affects my iron distance.  They're not obscenely short, but I do notice a bit of difference.

I haven't noticed anything starkly different in short game with either ball.  

Personal preference has me heavily leaning Snell, of the two of these.

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3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
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36 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

I've played both the MTB Black and Vice Pro, still have some of each.  Some rather anecdotal observations...

The Vice feels quite a bit firmer than the Snell; I feel I could play the Snell, but the Vice has essentially become a Ping irons only golfball for me (lol).  I especially noticed this a couple weeks ago, when I played each ball for a hole or two, with my persimmons.  The Snell had an acceptable feel, the Vice, not so much.  Actually put the Vice back in the bag after I finished the hole with it, didn't want to hit it with a persimmon again.   😉

Continuing with anecdotal observations, I've felt like the Vice is a little shorter.  This could be spin, but I've got no data to back that up, just an observation over the years of how spin affects my iron distance.  They're not obscenely short, but I do notice a bit of difference.

I haven't noticed anything starkly different in short game with either ball.  

Personal preference has me heavily leaning Snell, of the two of these.

I feel the same way about it. The funny thing is my league partner hits Ping Irons and he loves his Vice. I have tried hitting his clubs and haven't been able to hit them well ha. Just made me chuckle when you mentioned it. I did notice the MTB X was a little clicky with the putter as well. I've decided I'm going to stick with the Black this year and see how they end up. I played yesterday and it was 48 degrees here. I don't think I was swinging full and warmed up until about the 8th tee. 

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I've played both balls and think they are both good.  Both are a good value compared to premium balls sold retail.

I chose Snell because of the pedigree of the founder.  He designed many of the worlds most popular golf balls including the Pro-V1.

I've been playing Snell My Tour Ball Black for about a year and a half and love them.  I prefer a white ball....but have turned to the YELLOW when playing desert courses.  It truly makes a huge difference in SUCCESSFULLY finding a ball in the rough.  

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I have played Vice ... It was ok but now I need to try Snell. I agree the Vice balls wear out to soon.. but it was soft and felt great off the club face !! 

Golf In the morning, Golf at Noon and Golf in the Evening !!

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I just started using the MTBx and love it so far!  

Driver: Titleist Titanium 983K, 10.5, Aldial Green 85-X

FW: Nike Covert VRS 2.0, 15, Kuro Kage 70G

Hybrid: Adams A4 3H, 18,  Rayon Javlnfx h80

Iron: JPX 900 Forged 4-5 JPX 900 Tour 6-PW, Project X 5.5

Wedges:SM7 50 F Grind, 54 S Grind, 60 D Grind

Putter:  Odyssey White Hot 9, Superstroke Flatso 1.0 grip

Ball: Titleist Prov1x

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interesting test. I usually alternate balls in between rounds. with the ocassional 2 balls of the tee if there is nobody behind me. Also found the Snell to beat or at worst hold up to the brands I was playing - TP5 and ZStar.

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I love Snell... they hold up really well compared to the other high end balls.  Vice has been hit or miss for me, and I had a pretty rough time with their customer service the last time I ordered from them.  The next time I make a bulk ball purchase it will be Snell

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I jumped on the Snells this year after playing the ProV1 since it first came out during my high school and college competitive days. The Snells are nice, but I don’t know if the the Black or X is the one for me yet. Still tweaking early season swings and don’t want to throw all of my new Snells into the woods. 

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On 3/24/2020 at 8:10 AM, Pingistheanser said:

Id be curious to hear which Vice ball you were using.  Ive played both Snell and Vice and they performed virtually identically for me.  I know that a lot of people buy into the claims from Snell that he designs the balls and has people are Foremost who are constantly checking quality but to be fair, this ball technology is nothing new, which is why all of these DTC companies are able to make 3 and 4-piece balls now.

Definitely agree, I think most of the DTC balls are extremely similar, and for most of nothing discernable 

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On 5/20/2020 at 1:29 PM, Maccaroni_tiime said:

Definitely agree, I think most of the DTC balls are extremely similar, and for most of nothing discernable 

Amen.  As Ive said several times in the past, I think that much of the hype surrounding Snell is the resume of Dean Snell.  His pedigree is unquestionable but I still question just how much of a hand he actually has in the design and QC of his golf balls.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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Amen.  As Ive said several times in the past, I think that much of the hype surrounding Snell is the resume of Dean Snell.  His pedigree is unquestionable but I still question just how much of a hand he actually has in the design and QC of his golf balls.

So you think he is just buying a stock ball and slapping his logo on it???

Mulling this over your statement is fairly ridiculous. He holds more golf ball patents than anyone else. You don't do that by not being the core designer. The person who is theist involved in the balls design. Im not a snell fan boy or even a repeat snell customer. But what you said is ridiculous.

 

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So you think he is just buying a stock ball and slapping his logo on it???Mulling this over your statement is fairly ridiculous. He holds more golf ball patents than anyone else. You don't do that by not being the core designer. The person who is theist involved in the balls design. Im not a snell fan boy or even a repeat snell customer. But what you said is ridiculous.

 

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Is it though? Everyone talks about his ball patents but that was a long time ago. FWIW, Quantix could say the same thing but they dont seem to get anywhere near the hype or respect that Snell does.

What more ridiculous, me speculating the Snell may be a catalog ball with a hyped up image or the blind faith that we all seem to give Snell because of Dean Snell's history and resume? Have we seen any new designs from Snell? Have we seen any pictures or video of Snell's qc people at the ball plant in Asia? All we have what Snell tells us and how do we know it's not all just marketing?

 

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"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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On 5/21/2020 at 6:30 PM, Pingistheanser said:

Is it though? Everyone talks about his ball patents but that was a long time ago. FWIW, Quantix could say the same thing but they dont seem to get anywhere near the hype or respect that Snell does.

What more ridiculous, me speculating the Snell may be a catalog ball with a hyped up image or the blind faith that we all seem to give Snell because of Dean Snell's history and resume? Have we seen any new designs from Snell? Have we seen any pictures or video of Snell's qc people at the ball plant in Asia? All we have what Snell tells us and how do we know it's not all just marketing?

 

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There is no comparison of resumes here. The person in the Quantix marketing is Lauro (Larry) Cadorniga who has not been employed by a major golf OEM since 1995 according to his LinkedIn resume and whose only ball patents are related to RF tracking of a golf ball (there are also 6 other names on those patents). Also the CEO of Quantix is fresh out of college and apparently has just rebranded the remnants of one of his Dad’s former companies (Larry and his dad apparently worked together in the past). 

Dean Snell on the other hand was leading TaylorMade ball R&D as recently as 2015 (won’t even mention his time at Acushnet since that was over 20 years ago). During his time there he helped establish the Nassau factory in South Korea where the MTB models are produced which TaylorMade also uses for core/mantle assemblies to this day. Dean’s name is on over 70 granted or pending patents related to golf balls and the majority are still active (1-2 other names on each patent).

His reputation absolutely helps sell balls, but much of the hype for the MTB balls minus the MTB Red is legit (MTB X is the only X type ball that I have been able to tolerate the feel of). Are these likely a generic white label model? Quite possible that the MTB Red was given that it was a different factory and TPU cover but the Nassau MTBs don’t follow suit especially considering that Nassau has stopped that practice for USDM DTCs due to legal threat (Costco really caused that but Dean is able to continue given that his names are on the patents in question not to mention his past relationship with TaylorMade). I have no idea if Dean actually has employees in South Korea but I’ll take him at his word (if you think pics/video somehow legitimizes this in someway keep in mind that Vice put together a video of Vice balls coming off the line at the Foremost factory even though they do not directly employ any of those people, have any stake in the factory beyond customer, not have much/if any involvement in the actual design).

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:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5 50, 56

image.png.e50b7e7a9b18feff4720d7b223a2013d.png   Works Versa 1W

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  • 1 month later...

My issue with Vice balls has always been durability, lots of scuffs and dings


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