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Does anyone have experiance with the Fujikura Ventus 4t Core shaft included with the new Tour Edge Exotics EXS 220


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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Should be and are the same are two different things. Until you have the EI profiles you are guessing. 
 

The bottom line is fujikura markets the ventus based on velocore technology. When the 70t prepreg is remover any shaft without it is just a ventus in name. It doesn’t matter if the shafts play the same, have the same EI profile or not they are just a shaft using the name ventus. It’s why tm distinguished between ventus red or ventus blue for the no upcharge shaft and have the Ventura red, blue, and black with velocore in the name plus $250 upgrade charge on their site. This is to distinguish they are different. The TEE ventus 4t is also just a ventus name minus the 70t .

Club manufacturers talk with shaft manufacturers to find out what shaft or shafts they will be pushing for the upcoming year and then work with them to on how they can get that line in their club release. They work out price points and then the club manufacturer determines if it will be a stock offering similar to hzrdus smoke green in Callaway and TM or an upcharge shaft. At times like with the ventus, Atmos, pro 2.0 they request a made for shaft. This has been going on for years.

With all that said I’m joining blackngoold and I’m out. 

With all due respect...

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The Taylormade version of the ventus has a torque of 3.8 for the blue 6s and the velocore version has a torque if 3.1. Those will feel significantly different.  A .5 difference in torque will change t

You can't quantify feel like the other parameters you mention. It is extremely personal. Some people try to use torque values to help but that isn't exactly the end all be all of feel. If you are l

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With all due respect...
VlArQpi.png
 
Well I guess I'm back for one more comment!
I don't care that you said with all due respect. I don't care if you were kidding or trying to make a joke. Using a Meme to call someone's comment idiotic and claiming to be dumber because of it is something you can keep to yourself. That is not how things work here.
Maybe I am just cranky from all this covid stuff but you can keep it civil or go somewhere else.

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34 minutes ago, blackngold_blood said:

Well I guess I'm back for one more comment!
I don't care that you said with all due respect. I don't care if you were kidding or trying to make a joke. Using a Meme to call someone's comment idiotic and claiming to be dumber because of it is something you can keep to yourself. That is not how things work here.
Maybe I am just cranky from all this covid stuff but you can keep it civil or go somewhere else.

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2 hours ago, storm319 said:

With all due respect...

My response to the stupid stuff people post - post - Imgur

 

With all due respect you are missing information in your claims about what fujikura is saying and assuming that stiffness profiles should be the same. What other materials are used in the ventus version other than the 70t prepreg, how many flags do the use, how many run the full length of the shaft, are they all oriented the same?  When they removed the 70t for the 40t did they do a one for one swap, did they change any other flags or their orientation, did they soften or stiffen the tip or butt sections, are the other materials from the ventus version kept in the 4t design? 

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18 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

With all due respect you are missing information in your claims about what fujikura is saying and assuming that stiffness profiles should be the same. What other materials are used in the ventus version other than the 70t prepreg, how many flags do the use, how many run the full length of the shaft, are they all oriented the same?  When they removed the 70t for the 40t did they do a one for one swap, did they change any other flags or their orientation, did they soften or stiffen the tip or butt sections, are the other materials from the ventus version kept in the 4t design? 

Here is the quote from Fujikura from WRX for the 3rd time in this thread with the segment on the TEE version bolded. If you still can’t accept this I’d recommend that you reach out to Fujikura directly for further clarification.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1789613/the-new-ventus-black/p14

“The STOCK shafts used in the new TaylorMade products is a Ventus part without VeloCore Technology (no Pitch 70 ton or 40 ton in the bias core) that we worked in conjunction with TM to optimize the performance for a wide range of golfers. Please refer to TaylorMade for specs.

     note: TaylorMade is the ONLY company offering ventus without VeloCore as their stock shaft. And their custom upgrade shafts are the aftermarket versions, hence the upcharge. So if       you see a ventus part at another OEM it is our aftermarket part with VeloCore and carries a $350 MSRP. the only exception is Tour Edge has a Ventus with "4T Core" which is same construction as VeloCore, but without the $$$ Pitch 70T material. 4T core is all high-mod 40 Ton in the full length bias core."

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8 hours ago, storm319 said:

Here is the quote from Fujikura from WRX for the 3rd time in this thread with the segment on the TEE version bolded. If you still can’t accept this I’d recommend that you reach out to Fujikura directly for further clarification.

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1789613/the-new-ventus-black/p14

“The STOCK shafts used in the new TaylorMade products is a Ventus part without VeloCore Technology (no Pitch 70 ton or 40 ton in the bias core) that we worked in conjunction with TM to optimize the performance for a wide range of golfers. Please refer to TaylorMade for specs.

     note: TaylorMade is the ONLY company offering ventus without VeloCore as their stock shaft. And their custom upgrade shafts are the aftermarket versions, hence the upcharge. So if       you see a ventus part at another OEM it is our aftermarket part with VeloCore and carries a $350 MSRP. the only exception is Tour Edge has a Ventus with "4T Core" which is same construction as VeloCore, but without the $$$ Pitch 70T material. 4T core is all high-mod 40 Ton in the full length bias core."

You obviously don’t know how shafts are made. Shafts don’t have just 1 piece of material and for each layer of material they use it’s not all the same type. The stiffer the shaft is the more brittle it becomes. If a shaft was made with 5 layers of 70t it would be really expensive and it would be really brittle and possibly not even playable for more than one swing.

so yes fujikura replaces their 70t with 40t, but unless you know what TEE requested the design of the 4t shaft to be you don’t know if they had to change the other pieces of prepreg that make up the shaft to account for going from 70t to 40t if they had to use more than 1 layer of 40t. The ventus has a very stiff tip maybe TEE wanted that to be softer which would change the prepeg used for the tip flag or flags. 
 

so again unless you know the design for the TEe shaft compared to how the ventus w/velocore is designed your thoughts on the stiffness profile is just a guess. The only way to know if they have the same profile is to get the EI profile for each shaft and compare them. 
 

and again when the you like the opinion or not fujikura designs and is marketing the ventus shaft based on velocore. they list 3 profiles on their site red, blue and black. This is what led to a discussion in the ventus thread about TM using the red and blue name in their stock shaft and that anyone buying that isn’t getting a true ventus shaft because it’s missing the key element of what ventus is about.  They also don’t list the 4t and there is no color for the 4t so it makes it hard to know what of the 3 profiles it was designed off. And again since it’s not using velocore the person is buying a shaft that isn’t what a ventus is about. 
 

from their website

The exceptionally engineered Ventus is designed to significantly tighten shot dispersion and maximize ball speed especially on off-center shots. Ventus is a Tour-inspired profile and the first to include Fujikura’s all-new VeloCore Technology in an accelerated taper, ultra-stiff tip profile. Maximum energy transfer from the tip section boosts the clubhead’s performance and a straight taper design enhances loading and feel.

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In Post #10, the OP quoted Fujikura, so he has his answer. Why is this thread 68 posts deep???
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6 minutes ago, PMookie said:

In Post #10, the OP quoted Fujikura, so he has his answer. Why is this thread 68 posts deep???
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I know right! I have literally reposted and linked that quote from the OEM but apparently that is not sufficient (maybe it takes reposting that quote  a dozen times for it to sink in for some people?).

I would have no problem if Fujikura posted a follow up that the previous post was not entirely correct and that there are other changes between the two (then the stiffness profiles could be different), but we should take them at their word until that happens.

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A Ventus without 70t and Velocore is not really a Ventus at all.

Yes, of course the OEM will say the products are sort of similar to try to save face - but they watered down their product for marketing purposes an there is no way around it.

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17 minutes ago, jlukes said:

A Ventus without 70t and Velocore is not really a Ventus at all.

Yes, of course the OEM will say the products are sort of similar to try to save face - but they watered down their product for marketing purposes an there is no way around it.

I would agree if not for that quote or if they had given a typical ambiguous response, but someone at Fujikura literally stated that the only difference is with the material of a single layup the orientation of which is a factor in torque, not stiffness. If it had been the 0 degree orientation that is a factor in stiffness, a material change would result in a completely different profile, but the bias orientation not so much. 

Also, a shaft is a sum of all parts, not just a single layer (regardless of what the OEM chooses to focus their marketing on).

Edited by storm319

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7 minutes ago, storm319 said:

I would agree if not for that quote or if they had given a typical ambiguous response, but someone at Fujikura literally stated that the only difference is with the material of a single layup the orientation of which is a factor in torque, not stiffness. If it had been the 0 degree orientation that is a factor in stiffness, a material change would result in a completely different profile, but the bias orientation not so much. 

Also, a shaft is a sum of all parts, not just a single layer (regardless of what the OEM chooses to focus their marketing on).

That is fine. I don't expect anyone from Fujikura to speak down about one of any of their products on a golf forum.  They will give you the speak that all of their products have benefits to different golfers.  Which is true.  All that matters is that a shaft fits - who cares what it says on the outside. 

Put it this way, if I gave you a Corvette with a inline 4 instead of a V8 and everything else was the same, that car might be just fine for your needs.  It gets you from point A to Point B no problem and actually does so more efficiently than the corevette with the V8.  But any true car guy/gear head knows that the corvette without V8 really isn't a Corvette.

I am sure the shaft made with the 4t carbon for Tour Edge and the Made for Ventus for TMaG fits a ton of people, but when gear heads think Ventus, they think Velocore, and the Tour Edge and TMaG shafts do not have Velocore

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16 minutes ago, jlukes said:

That is fine. I don't expect anyone from Fujikura to speak down about one of any of their products on a golf forum.  They will give you the speak that all of their products have benefits to different golfers.  Which is true.  All that matters is that a shaft fits - who cares what it says on the outside. 

Put it this way, if I gave you a Corvette with a inline 4 instead of a V8 and everything else was the same, that car might be just fine for your needs.  It gets you from point A to Point B no problem and actually does so more efficiently than the corevette with the V8.  But any true car guy/gear head knows that the corvette without V8 really isn't a Corvette.

I am sure the shaft made with the 4t carbon for Tour Edge and the Made for Ventus for TMaG fits a ton of people, but when gear heads think Ventus, they think Velocore, and the Tour Edge and TMaG shafts do not have Velocore

The above posted Billy Madison meme also applies to your terribly exaggerated and mismatched analogy. Different transmissions may have been closer to this situation. 

So you aren’t buying Fuji’s response on the differences yet you are on board with their primary marketing? 🤔

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ok I would still like to hear anyone's thoughts on the TEE version of the shaft, so if you folks are finished...

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  • 7 months later...

I guess the question is the 4T version closer to the quality of the velocore shaft than the ventus Shay’s in the TM products.

these shafts (the 4T)are available from retail and not as shaft pull sales

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1 hour ago, VNA13 said:

I guess the question is the 4T version closer to the quality of the velocore shaft than the ventus Shay’s in the TM products.

these shafts (the 4T)are available from retail and not as shaft pull sales

Depends what you consider quality. The 4t doesn’t have the full length 70t in its design but uses the rest of the materials used in the ventus shaft. 
 

So it has lower costing and in some people’s minds that means lower quality materials.

The other side of that is the quality of the build which would probably be the same since they come from the same factory, but what we don’t know is if the QC of the shafts for thru the same process.

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