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What’s up guys, stuck inside for the lockdown so I’m working on my putting stroke. I’ve been missing putts right recently with my Ping Karsten TR PAL. I noticed that I tend to return the face slightly open at impact. 
 

Can this be related to toe hang? Would a face-balanced putter tend to reduce this effect or make it worse?

Any face-balanced blade putter fans out there?

Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph
 

Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X
3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts
3h: Tour Edge EXS Pro, Smoke Black 80g 6.0
4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300
Wedges: Titleist SM7
56* Wedge: Callaway Jaws w/ 12* of bounce

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That's really weird! I used to miss putts to the right ( I'm a lefty ) and I switched to a 60 degree toe hang and it also cured my miss. Golf is stupid.😀

You need to change your focus from changing putters to understanding the putting stroke.  Dive in to how it works and how the stroke works in tandem with the putter.   From there you can choose a sing

Multiple options. Most people start with toe hang but that isn’t always a good fix unless all the other design features remain the same. You could go with less toe hang. Face balanced may be too

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what do you currently use?

I also did this according to a SAMM putt lab session I had. I had no idea I did this until shown. I had used slight toe hang putters and like you thought a face balanced putter would cure it.

We tried many blade and mallet face balanced putters and no matter how hard I tried I presented the face slightly open at impact.

Switched to a full toe hang blade putter and it was an INSTANT fix, solid and consistent putts without having to manipulate the head.

Now I can concentrate on speed and line instead of strike.

Good luck and keep us appraised of your journey.

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3 hours ago, perseveringgolfer said:

what do you currently use?

I also did this according to a SAMM putt lab session I had. I had no idea I did this until shown. I had used slight toe hang putters and like you thought a face balanced putter would cure it.

We tried many blade and mallet face balanced putters and no matter how hard I tried I presented the face slightly open at impact.

Switched to a full toe hang blade putter and it was an INSTANT fix, solid and consistent putts without having to manipulate the head.

Now I can concentrate on speed and line instead of strike.

Good luck and keep us appraised of your journey.

That's really weird! I used to miss putts to the right ( I'm a lefty ) and I switched to a 60 degree toe hang and it also cured my miss. Golf is stupid.😀

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8 hours ago, zrumble said:

What’s up guys, stuck inside for the lockdown so I’m working on my putting stroke. I’ve been missing putts right recently with my Ping Karsten TR PAL. I noticed that I tend to return the face slightly open at impact. 
 

Can this be related to toe hang? Would a face-balanced putter tend to reduce this effect or make it worse?

Any face-balanced blade putter fans out there?

Yes, more toe hang = slower face closure rate.  Less toe hang, for most people, will make the face close faster.

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Multiple options.
Most people start with toe hang but that isn’t always a good fix unless all the other design features remain the same.

You could go with less toe hang. Face balanced may be too far. The want to stay pointed where the are pointing. My putters open in the backswing so face balanced putters tend to stay open in my putting stroke.

Another option may be less weight. Your putter head weighs 360gr. Maybe look for same toe hang with less weight maybe 350gr. Lower weight will tend to rotate faster.

The least recommended option is to change your setup to fit the putter you have.

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14 minutes ago, cnosil said:



You could go with less toe hang. Face balanced may be too far. The want to stay pointed where the are pointing. 

This is a common misnomer.  Face balanced putters close FASTER than putters with toe hang.  

Ultimately it comes down to how the golfer reacts to the feelings the putter gives, but the science of toe hang (more weight in the toe) means closing down the rate of rotation.  Face balanced putters rotate closed faster.

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Do you open the face in your backswing? If so, you may need more toe hang to help it get back square at impact. 

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Driver: TS3, 9* (C1 setting, surefit cartridge in fade setting)

3/4 Wood: 917D2, 16.5 degrees (D1 setting, surefit cartridge neutral)

Hybrid: Titleist 818 H2, 19 degrees (C3 setting, surefit cartridge neutral)

Irons: Mizuno MP-18 MMC Fli-Hi 4-Iron (23 degrees); Mizuno MP-18 SC 5-iron(26) and 6-iron(30); Mizuno MP-18 7-iron(34), 8-iron(38), 9-iron(42), and P Wedge(46). Nippon Modus 120x shafts. 1 degree upright.

Wedges: Mizuno S-18 50, 54, and 58 degrees. 50 is 1 degree upright, 54 and 58 are standard lie. Nippon Modus 120x, soft stepped in the 54 and 58.

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Right-handed

Atlanta, GA

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Go to the 6 minute mark in this video

 

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This is a common misnomer.  Face balanced putters close FASTER than putters with toe hang.  

Ultimately it comes down to how the golfer reacts to the feelings the putter gives, but the science of toe hang (more weight in the toe) means closing down the rate of rotation.  Face balanced putters rotate closed faster.

Gonna have to disagree with you on that. I agree more toe hang causes the the toe to lag behind as the stroke starts and people react to the feel. Face balanced putters, center shaft generally excluded, are a different animal. They resist rotation and don’t close faster; they try to remain pointing in the same direction; they don’t want to rotate open or closed.

I watched the video and Ian doesn’t discuss face balanced.

 

I need a putter that stays open to correct my left miss so I go with more toe hang or less weight.

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Do you love your grip? There was an article on here about Pistol vs Straight grips and I believe the Pistol grip resulted in faster closure rates for some people versus a straight grip.

Here's the link:  https://mygolfspy.com/study-the-impact-of-pistol-grips-on-putting-performance/

I didn't re-read it so I may have it backwards.

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4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Gonna have to disagree with you on that. I agree more toe hang causes the the toe to lag behind as the stroke starts and people react to the feel. Face balanced putters, center shaft generally excluded, are a different animal. They resist rotation and don’t close faster; they try to remain pointing in the same direction; they don’t want to rotate open or closed.

I watched the video and Ian doesn’t discuss face balanced.

 

I need a putter that stays open to correct my left miss so I go with more toe hang or less weight.

All face balanced means is Zero toe hang.  You miss left, so you go with more toe hang so the face stays open longer and resists closing.  Makes perfect sense.  Someone who misses right or leaves the face open would want less (or potentially zero) toe hang.  Face balanced putters release easier, so they make the putter easier to rotate closed faster for someone who tensds to leave it open.

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We like to think about it like this: if a shaft were to enter the putter through the heel, it would take more effort to rotate the face closed. If a shaft were to enter the putter through the middle of the putter, the face would feel much easier to rotate closed. As we define the different types of toe hang, keep in mind that more face balanced designs release easier and more heel shafted designs cause the face to stay more open at impact for players who have average to minimal face rotation in their stroke.

https://www.truespecgolf.com/putter-fitting-101/

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We are just going to have to disagree on this.

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I dont know that I really buy into the merits of toe hang vs face balanced because you dont hold a putter in a way that gravity would effect it.  Typically though, you would be advised to pick a putter based upon your stroke.  If you have a stroke arc, you would maybe want one thats heel shafted, if you have a weaker arc you may want one thats face balanced.

IMO, its really more about what suits your eye and what feels good to you.

If you are missing putts to the left or right, it could also be how close or far away you are standing to the ball.  I know that I used to miss a lot of putts to the right and found that I was standing too close to the ball, which messed up my eye line.  I now stand a little bit inside of the ball and Im making more putts than ever.

I do think that when you can, you should go and try different kinds of putters and see what you like and what feels good to you.  Ive always been a fan of heel shafted blades but my stroke is a strong arc, so I need a putter than I can let open on the backswing and close going through the ball, like a gate.

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:


We are just going to have to disagree on this.

You're disagreeing with science and world class fitters. I'm not disagreeing that some people might react the opposite to those feels, but for the majority that's how it is. 

Same concept as for a driver. Add more weight to the toe to reduce closure rate. Add weight to the heel to increase closure rate 

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12 hours ago, zrumble said:

What’s up guys, stuck inside for the lockdown so I’m working on my putting stroke. I’ve been missing putts right recently with my Ping Karsten TR PAL. I noticed that I tend to return the face slightly open at impact. 
 

Can this be related to toe hang? Would a face-balanced putter tend to reduce this effect or make it worse?

Any face-balanced blade putter fans out there?

I bought a Ram Zebra in 1978 and have preferred face balanced ever since.

I don't really care what's fashionable with the theorists and the fitters.

First, I was playing before most of them were born.

But more importantly, 

who would know better than I what putters work best for me?  

 

 

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You're disagreeing with science and world class fitters. I'm not disagreeing that some people might react the opposite to those feels, but for the majority that's how it is. 

Same concept as for a driver. Add more weight to the toe to reduce closure rate. Add weight to the heel to increase closure rate 

I am going based on information captured from people that worked with sam puttlab and analyzed putting strokes. Face balanced putters are designed to minimize rotation. This is part of the reason the SBST advocates choose face balanced putters.

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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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27 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I am going based on information captured from people that worked with sam puttlab and analyzed putting strokes. Face balanced putters are designed to minimize rotation. This is part of the reason the SBST advocates choose face balanced putters.

We're saying two different things because we're talking about different things 

Yes. A face balanced putter is good for someone with a straight back straight through stroke because it has a neutral axis of rotation and thus it won't rotate or resist rotation that the golfer isn't creating himself. 

A face balanced putter is also good for someone who may open the face in the backswing and be late to close the swing at impact. The face balanced putter is easier to rotate. 

A putter with toe hang might cause issues for someone who is straight back straight through because the toe, due to inertia, will lag behind the rest of putter. Thus leaving the face open for those types of golfers. 

Someone with an arc stroke who is too aggressive rotating closed at impact well benefit from more toe hand because it will resist closing on as the putter moves forward. 

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Thanks all for the replies! Lots of knowledge on this subject!

The TXG channel is great. They do an awesome job relating what Matt feels and how they are using equipment to fit that feel. 

I do currently use a Ping Karsten TR PAL. I tend to have a very mild arc on my putts, definitely doesn't move off the line a ton. I do open the face with forearm rotation on ALL my clubs including the putter, I hate the feeling of keeping them from rotating. Inefficient maybe, but it's the way I like to feel the club working. Seems like I'm going to have to try a few different weights and toe hangs to see if my natural pattern is complemented by a particular style. I'll let you guys know what I find out, but it might be slow going with the shut down limiting access to facilities.

Edited by zrumble

Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph
 

Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X
3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts
3h: Tour Edge EXS Pro, Smoke Black 80g 6.0
4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300
Wedges: Titleist SM7
56* Wedge: Callaway Jaws w/ 12* of bounce

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This is a great topic.  I have spent the winter using a Blast Motion sensor on my various putters.  I also had a Sams Putt Lab session.  I have hit north of 10,000 putts this winter and spring.  I know that rotation change is a very hot topic and it gets a lot of attention.  I have evaluated face balanced putters, slight toe balanced putters and blades with lots of toe hang.  I have had multiple putting lessons from multiple instructors..everything from Aimpoint to ..you get it. 

With all of that said...I am not an expert.  My putting has improved this winter.  I am convinced that the success that I am experiencing is due to two things.

1.  Get fitted for a putter.  Sams putt lab would be my first choice.  The amount of information that you get is amazing..study it and then try several putters that are recommended.  When you are trying those putters concentrate on your normal stroke.  Do not try to change your stroke unless you know that you have a poor putting stroke.  If you do have a poor stroke, plan on several  months of work to correct it.

2.  Once you decide on a putter..practice...a lot.  Missing on one side is not that difficult of a problem to correct.  If you have a two way miss..it is probably not going to be corrected with a putter change..you need help with your stroke. 

I love this crazy game!!!

Edited by deauxrite
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43 minutes ago, deauxrite said:

This is a great topic.  I have spent the winter using a Blast Motion sensor on my various putters.  I also had a Sams Putt Lab session.  I have hit north of 10,000 putts this winter and spring.  I know that rotation change is a very hot topic and it gets a lot of attention.  I have evaluated face balanced putters, slight toe balanced putters and blades with lots of toe hang.  I have had multiple putting lessons from multiple instructors..everything from Aimpoint to ..you get it. 

With all of that said...I am not an expert.  My putting has improved this winter.  I am convinced that the success that I am experiencing is due to two things.

1.  Get fitted for a putter.  Sams putt lab would be my first choice.  The amount of information that you get is amazing..study it and then try several putters that are recommended.  When you are trying those putters concentrate on your normal stroke.  Do not try to change your stroke unless you know that you have a poor putting stroke.  If you do have a poor stroke, plan on several  months of work to correct it.

2.  Once you decide on a putter..practice...a lot.  Missing on one side is not that difficult of a problem to correct.  If you have a two way miss..it is probably not going to be corrected with a putter change..you need help with your stroke. 

I love this crazy game!!!

I’ll give Sams putt lab a look! Glad to hear the effort making a difference in your game. Yea I do consider a slight right miss to be a blessing. My technique has been to just aim a touch further left. But as an engineer and constant tinkerer, I am left wondering if something flows even better with my swing. 

Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph
 

Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X
3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts
3h: Tour Edge EXS Pro, Smoke Black 80g 6.0
4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300
Wedges: Titleist SM7
56* Wedge: Callaway Jaws w/ 12* of bounce

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