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Shaft Q&A with Fujikura - We're here to answer your questions!


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7 hours ago, Fujikura Golf said:

We like that you guys are coming out of the gates with the tough questions like these! there are many ways to answer this and many opinions. A simple answer is we all have different machines to measure the CPM so nothing is apples to apples. Also this is one of the big reasons why all of us in the industry recommend going to get custom fit, because at the end of the day the specs should not matter to the golfer so long as a certified fitter puts the golfer in the one that best enhances their performance

-Eric

Hi Eric, thank you for your response. I’m not quite following the response of “different machines”. Is cycles per minute (“CPM”) an objective or subjective measurement/ number? If objective, then why can this number not be measured consistently, i.e., speed/radar gun or a scale? If this is the case, how do companies have machines that do not measure correctly and stay in business? If you’re saying that CPM is a subjective number, can you please explain why. 
Thanks!

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Hey MGS Community - How's everyone doing? We at Fujikura are using this time to do our part to turn our attention to education and having a conversation with golfers. We want to get back on the c

What are your thoughts on shaft PUREing? Is it really a beneficial service to perform on shafts, or are manufacturing tolerances tight enough now that it won’t make a large difference for most golfers

We like that you guys are coming out of the gates with the tough questions like these! there are many ways to answer this and many opinions. A simple answer is we all have different machines to measur

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1 hour ago, conted said:

Hi Eric, thank you for your response. I’m not quite following the response of “different machines”. Is cycles per minute (“CPM”) an objective or subjective measurement/ number? If objective, then why can this number not be measured consistently, i.e., speed/radar gun or a scale? If this is the case, how do companies have machines that do not measure correctly and stay in business? If you’re saying that CPM is a subjective number, can you please explain why. 
Thanks!

I think the answer is about calibration and tolerances.   All machines have tolerances and unless the same device is used to do the calibrations,  readings may be different.    This is one theory on why the drivers failed testing last year;  the ones owned by the company didn't have the same reading as the one the tour used.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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17 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I think the answer is about calibration and tolerances.   All machines have tolerances and unless the same device is used to do the calibrations,  readings may be different.    This is one theory on why the drivers failed testing last year;  the ones owned by the company didn't have the same reading as the one the tour used.

It goes beyond this in that the definition of a cycle is not consistent. Even if the same machine is used, differences in the clamp size, location, and tip weight could theoretically change the cycle distance. Also remember that this is only a measurement of the butt section of the shaft (2 shafts from the same OEM could both measure to 250 cpm but have drastically different profiles from mid to tip and ultimately play very differently).

Ultimately the equipment OEMs have little financial incentive to concede to any type of industry standard (it is more ridiculous that the club OEMs aren’t in agreement in how a club’s length should be measured). 

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:titelist-small:  909F2

:titelist-small:  690.CB

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5

:ping-small:  iWi D66

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I'm looking into replacing my hybrid shaft and I'm looking at going slighty shorter for tighter dispersion and better gapping between clubs.  If I want to play my 3 hybrid at a 4 hybrid length, should I take the new shaft and tip / butt trim like it's going into a 4 hybrid, or should I simply butt trim the current shaft?  What will be the effects of each assuming the shafts are the same shaft?

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20 hours ago, conted said:

Hi Eric, thank you for your response. I’m not quite following the response of “different machines”. Is cycles per minute (“CPM”) an objective or subjective measurement/ number? If objective, then why can this number not be measured consistently, i.e., speed/radar gun or a scale? If this is the case, how do companies have machines that do not measure correctly and stay in business? If you’re saying that CPM is a subjective number, can you please explain why. 
Thanks!

They are physically different machines. Iirc from my visit to a couple different brands there are differences in how they measure as well. 

Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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With COVID-19 and the impacts on golf.  Many assessments will have to be taken into account.  As you engage in product innovations, are you expecting to have to make adjustments in how you anticipate the player/consumer needs (i.e. specs), as well as the supply chain production moving forward.

a. Ladies Flex/10-12 degrees loft/25"-27" (male equivalent)

b. Adjustable/Ladies Flex (male equivalent)

c. Right-Handed

d. San Diego

e. -18

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Are they coming back to answer all of the questions????


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Driver: :honma: TR20 460, :Fuji: Ventus Black 70X

Fwy: :titelist-small: TS3, 15*, Veylix Rome 888 X

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, :Fuji: Rombax 8D07HB TM27 X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4/5, Tour V 6-10, Dynamic Gold X100

Wedges: Vega VW-06 50*/54*/58*, Dynamic Gold S400

Putter: :seemore-small: Platinum M5 HT Mallet, 36"

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On 4/2/2020 at 11:40 AM, Fujikura Golf said:

Hey MGS Community - How's everyone doing?

We at Fujikura are using this time to do our part to turn our attention to education and having a conversation with golfers. 

We have looped in our sales team, product experts and Tour fitters to participate in the Q&A and help answer your questions. Please feel free to use this as an opportunity to ask us anything, it does not have to be just about shaft specs. 

Thanks for chatting with us and we hope to hear from you. 

Sincerely,

The Fuji team in Carlsbad, CA

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Thanks for coming on here and chatting with us. I used to be a master club fitter for a company, and it was disappointing to hear many of the misconceptions and myths people had when it came to golf equipment and fittings. I think people on this forum could really benefit from dispelling some of the misconceptions and myths out there. 

I'd say dispel any myths or misconceptions you guys encounter on a regular basis, or that you think people would really benefit from having explained. 

If nothing pops straight to mind how about touching on things the following misconceptions I've heard:

"I'm a fast swinger (person's own opinion), and my buddy (hacker playing partner) says I should get extra stiff shafts", or on the other end of the spectrum the guy who maybe a senior and says he was told he should be getting senior or woman's shafts by his uneducated playing partners. (How more flexible can relate to high, and stiff to lower ball flights. How stiffer doesn't mean straighter, and more flexible doesn't mean more side to side dispersion) 

Maybe touch on how launch and spin is more important than swing speed when it comes to choosing shafts. Maybe touch on the importance of angle of attack on shaft selection. 

Maybe touch on how torque is related to feel, and with modern shafts it has little baring on dispersion (aka higher torque doesn't mean spray more shots). 

I remember people having misconceptions on graphite vs steel when it came to consistency, duribilty, flex, etc. Perhaps talk about some of those misconceptions or myths. 

Thanks again! 

Edited by Scientific Golfer

Current set makeup:

Taylormade M5 driver, 3w, &5w with Evenflow shafts

Taylormade GAPR 4h &5h

Taylormade P790 with Nippon 950 shafts
Callaway MD3 52*,PM 56*, and PM 60*
Taylormade Spider putter
 

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Am I the only cynic that thinks this is just a waste of time? I have played long enough to know that there is no standard on any aspect of shaft "labeling". I don't ever just take for granted what R, S, XS means. I just hit them and see what I like. I have no idea what data/info Fujikura could possibly give that would make a whit of difference to any of us. Even if you have never been fit (me), you know damn well what feels right when you hit it. It might not be optimal... in degrees, but you know.

 

Just hit a bunch of shafts............. and decide what YOU like.

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53 minutes ago, silver & black said:

Am I the only cynic that thinks this is just a waste of time? I have played long enough to know that there is no standard on any aspect of shaft "labeling". I don't ever just take for granted what R, S, XS means. I just hit them and see what I like. I have no idea what data/info Fujikura could possibly give that would make a whit of difference to any of us. Even if you have never been fit (me), you know damn well what feels right when you hit it. It might not be optimal... in degrees, but you know.

 

Just hit a bunch of shafts............. and decide what YOU like.

It is just you. There’s some good questions in here on shaft design that are far beyond just the labeled flex. There’s lots of information a shaft company can share that’s not proprietary and educational to the consumer. The education series fujikura did with mgs is pretty good

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It is just you. There’s some good questions in here on shaft design that are far beyond just the labeled flex. There’s lots of information a shaft company can share that’s not proprietary and educational to the consumer. The education series fujikura did with mgs is pretty good

That's cool. It's just my cynical side coming out. I know there are good questions. I just question if there are good answers considering there are NO standards in the industry?

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43 minutes ago, silver & black said:

That's cool. It's just my cynical side coming out. I know there are good questions. I just question if there are good answers considering there are NO standards in the industry?

If you know there are good questions in here there’s no need to be cynical. Learn from the answers to the questions that arent related to shaft measuring characteristics.
 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

If you know there are good questions in here there’s no need to be cynical. Learn from the answers to the questions that arent related to shaft measuring characteristics.
 

Fair enough.

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It is just you. There’s some good questions in here on shaft design that are far beyond just the labeled flex. There’s lots of information a shaft company can share that’s not proprietary and educational to the consumer. The education series fujikura did with mgs is pretty good

I'd be willing to bet bet it isn't just me. But.... I'll take your reply for how you intended it to be. 😉

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On 4/2/2020 at 12:00 PM, JScott said:

Checking out shaft U right now. 

JScott - thanks for checking out the Shaft U education pieces we collaborated with MGS on. We enjoyed this series and look for more/different topics from us in the future (once the current situation is behind us). Stay tuned!

- Austin, Fujikura Product Marketing Manager

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:01 PM, Bucky CC said:

What are your thoughts on shaft PUREing? Is it really a beneficial service to perform on shafts, or are manufacturing tolerances tight enough now that it won’t make a large difference for most golfers?

THANK YOU for offering to answer our questions!

 

Bucky CC - Thanks for your question. 

Within any manufacturing there are tolerances and we work HARD to eliminate any production tolerances through the tight specifications we require of our supply partners to our multiple production specification checks. Additionally, our production and shaft rolling processes were designed to eliminate variances. With graphite, we are able to place materials (lighter/heavier, softer/stiffer) exactly where we need them to create specific performance attributes - this is our advantage. Meaning, we not only have the ability to use a variety of types of carbon fiber, but we also can apply and wrap these materials with exacting precision to ensure concentricity, eliminating any performance/quality issues during the production process. All of this being said, all products have tolerances, no matter what you purchase. If you feel PUREing will provide you confidence in your purchase, by all means go for it, but we believe and stand by our production processes and multiple specification checks that ensure the performance of our designs. 

For more on this, check out - https://mygolfspy.com/shaft-u-production-process-101/

Hope this helps!

-AT

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:08 PM, chisag said:

... Can you explain how you keep spin low with mid and high launching shafts like the Atmos TS Blue? 

Hi chisag - 

Without giving away the recipe, we use a combination of stiffness in the mid/tip sections and decrease torque. 

Thanks for your question,

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

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On 4/2/2020 at 3:02 PM, Ward Jackson said:

I am a 2 handicap that has a fairly flat swing, so I am height challenged. My swing speed is between 95 and 97 miles per hr. Which shaft would you recommend for me to hit the ball higher with? 

Hi Ward Jackson - 

Thank you for your response.

We have several options for you to try, but I would recommend starting with the following (highest launching first):

Motore X F3 / Atmos TS Red / Ventus Red / Pro 2.0

This isn't intended as a prescription, but a place for you to start in our product line. 

Hope this helps!

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

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On 4/2/2020 at 1:14 PM, Mabyboi said:

Hello! 
Thanks for taking the time to reply to questions!

I was just fit into Fujikura Pro 2.0 Tour Spec 6X for my Driver and the 8X for my fairway woods. I was curious what the difference between Pro 2.0 Tour Spec and Ventus Black would be?

What does the EI curve look like for both? I really enjoy the stable feeling of Pro 2.0 TS, but I’ve also heard great things about Ventus Black!

Thanks!

Hi Mabyboi - Thanks for your question.

When looking at the two models (Pro 2.0 TS and Ventus Black), consider the following:

Pro 2.0 TS - designed as a stiffer, lower launching option of Pro 2.0. Designed with a low-mid launch and spin. Tip stiff, but smoother in the handle section to increase energy transfer.

Ventus Black - extension of the Ventus line, designed to be ultra-stiff in the tip and handle section with a stiff mid section. One of the stiffest profiles we offer but uses an accelerated taper to reduce the "boardy" feel that most ultra-stiff profiles seem to have. Utilizes VeloCore Technology to improve center face contact and tighten dispersion. Harry Nodwell is a big fan of this model and has found success in not only the driver but 3W as well. 

To summarize, Ventus Black is overall stiffer, will tend to launch lower and spin less. 

Hope this helps!

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

 

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58 minutes ago, Fujikura Golf said:

Hi chisag - 

Without giving away the recipe, we use a combination of stiffness in the mid/tip sections and decrease torque. 

Thanks for your question,

- AT, Product Mktg Mgr, Fujikura

Without giving away ingredients 😀 are you doing this thru flag placements, flag alignment and/or type of material to possibly including multiple flags of same material?

Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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